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GW2 the melting pot of MMO

LucioonLucioon Palm Harbor, FLPosts: 814Member Uncommon

GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

W v W - DAOC RvR

Dynamic Events - Rift

Personal Stories - SWTOR

PS : understand that GW2 brought everything that was fun, evolve it, changing it to fit their game is a good thing. No one is denying it. Rift did invent the dynamic rifts, but GW2 brought it further, it actually made it dynamic. It combined normal questing, with the concept and made it work better.

PS: SWTOR tried to combine MMO with Story and RPG, but it focused on Profession stories, yet forgotten about choices that mattered. GW2 took that idea and focused on PERSONAL stories, stories based on Race with Profession to direct how and where the stories go. Its an evolution of their concept.

What makes a game great isn't to try something new, rather is to bring what is already there, and Evolve it to the next stage where it becomes something entirely new.

 

 

 

Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

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Comments

  • Crake_1Crake_1 Toronto, ONPosts: 82Member

    As the old saying goes:

    "Good artists borrow; great artists steal."

     


     


     


     


     

  • steeler989steeler989 Farmington, MNPosts: 665Member

    Originally posted by Lucioon

    GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

    I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

    And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

    Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

    W v W - DAOC RvR

    Dynamic Events - Rift

    Personal Stories - SWTOR

     

     

     

     

     Now many can argue with this. The "Rifts" Would come up in the same place, be the same thing, and people could just farm on them (Like I did : P )

    GW2 has ACTUAL Dynamic Events, that people don't know what will come up and where.

    image
    image

  • AlotAlot BredaPosts: 1,948Member

    Originally posted by Crake_1

    As the old saying goes:

    "Good artists borrow; great artists steal."

     


     


     


     


     

    There is no stealing in regards to the development of technology, except when EA is involved ofcourse.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,591Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by steeler989

    Originally posted by Lucioon

    GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

    I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

    And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

    Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

    W v W - DAOC RvR

    Dynamic Events - Rift

    Personal Stories - SWTOR

     

     

     

     

     Now many can argue with this. The "Rifts" Would come up in the same place, be the same thing, and people could just farm on them (Like I did : P )

    GW2 has ACTUAL Dynamic Events, that people don't know what will come up and where.

    GW2's DE's are anything but dynamic. It's a cyclical flow chart of events

  • CavodCavod Brookfield, WIPosts: 295Member

    I really hate this "if a game has a minor pale resemblance of it, it's not innovating".





    Calling Rift's system 'dynamic events' feels inaccurate after seeing what a GW2's dynamic events look like.  With the leeway we're giving Rift we may as well credit WAR for dynamic events... and we all know how much of a stretch and silly it'd be to say PQs were dynamic events.





    MMOs aren't created overnight, they take years to build.   We don't know who truly originated the idea of dynamic events and I take protest to crediting the 'first joker who puts out something along the bare minimum lines' as the 'innovator'.





    Disclaimer: I'm not calling Trion a 'joker'(that was generalized) nor am I knocking Rift.  I'm not a currently subscriber but it's definitely a decent game worth it's sub price.



     

    We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.

  • KakkzookaKakkzooka Waterbury, CTPosts: 591Member

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Originally posted by steeler989


    Originally posted by Lucioon

    GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

    I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

    And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

    Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

    W v W - DAOC RvR

    Dynamic Events - Rift

    Personal Stories - SWTOR

     

     

     

     

     Now many can argue with this. The "Rifts" Would come up in the same place, be the same thing, and people could just farm on them (Like I did : P )

    GW2 has ACTUAL Dynamic Events, that people don't know what will come up and where.

    GW2's DE's are anything but dynamic. It's a cyclical flow chart of events

    I'm also interested in hearing how you think the grapes taste.

    Re: SWTOR

    "Remember, remember - Kakk says 'December.'"

  • Loser60Loser60 VilniusPosts: 170Member

    Originally posted by Alot

    Originally posted by Crake_1

    As the old saying goes:

    "Good artists borrow; great artists steal."

     


     


     


     


     

    There is no stealing in regards to the development of technology, except when EA is involved ofcourse.

    Oh EA, you are caught again.

  • RohnRohn Saint Peters, MOPosts: 3,740Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by steeler989

    Originally posted by Lucioon

    GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

    I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

    And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

    Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

    W v W - DAOC RvR

    Dynamic Events - Rift

    Personal Stories - SWTOR

     

     

     

     

     Now many can argue with this. The "Rifts" Would come up in the same place, be the same thing, and people could just farm on them (Like I did : P )

    GW2 has ACTUAL Dynamic Events, that people don't know what will come up and where.

     

    They aren't dynamic, they are scripted along a track.  "Oh look, the bandits are attacking that town... again."  Same as earlier today, and yesterday, and the day before that.  Phases of an event won't change - the bandits won't decide to adopt another tactic, or attack a different town, or quit permanently.  They will go from Phase 1, to 2, to 3, and on and on, until players intervene.

    GW2 is indeed a melting pot.  It's an amalgamation of everything that's wrong with MMORPGs today.  Ultra-fast leveling, instant gratification 80's for PvP, instance-only e-sport PvP (and yes, WvW is an instance), meaningless gameworld, "P2W" cash shop, catering to the casual solo player, etc.

    It has everything other games have been bashed relentlessly for.

    Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  • CavodCavod Brookfield, WIPosts: 295Member

    Originally posted by Rohn

    Originally posted by steeler989


    Originally posted by Lucioon

    GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

    I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

    And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

    Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

    W v W - DAOC RvR

    Dynamic Events - Rift

    Personal Stories - SWTOR

     

     

     

     

     Now many can argue with this. The "Rifts" Would come up in the same place, be the same thing, and people could just farm on them (Like I did : P )

    GW2 has ACTUAL Dynamic Events, that people don't know what will come up and where.

     

    They aren't dynamic, they are scripted along a track.  "Oh look, the bandits are attacking that town... again."  Same as earlier today, and yesterday, and the day before that.  Phases of an event won't change - the bandits won't decide to adopt another tactic, or attack a different town, or quit permanently.  They will go from Phase 1, to 2, to 3, and on and on, until players intervene.

    GW2 is indeed a melting pot.  It's an amalgamation of everything that's wrong with MMORPGs today.  Ultra-fast leveling, instant gratification 80's for PvP, instance-only e-sport PvP (and yes, WvW is an instance), meaningless gameworld, "P2W" cash shop, catering to the casual solo player, etc.

    It has everything other games have been bashed relentlessly for.

    So much wrong with this, I don't even know where to start.

    We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    A MMO is the sum of its parts.

    It is far, far too simple to just say that they took a little from this and a little from that and blending it together and somehow magically you have a game.

    It's all about implementation.

    Their ideas may not be 100% unique, but their implementation of them certainly is AND innovation is often something that isn't 100% new and unique but rather a new way of doing something.

    Very few people could argue against the fact that Apple is an innovative company - even though I despise i-anything.

    MP3 players existed before iPods, tablets existed before iPads, laptops existed before iBooks, etc. etc.

    But their implementation of these devices was both revolutionary and innovative.

    Over-priced, simplistic, locked down garbage IMO but still I cannot deny their innovation and the revolution(s) they began with their products.

  • wootwinkedwootwinked LPosts: 11Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Lucioon

    Dodge mechanic -  TERA

     

     

     Its funny that you include this one, since TERA (Bluehole) stole parts of the codes (ideas) from NcSoft..

    Moreover, its difficult to say that GW2 "stole" ideas from games like Tera/SWTOR since devellopment of GW2 started 5 years ago..  To prove someone stole ideas you should compare the draft feature lists etc..

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,931Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Lucioon

    GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

    I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

    And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

    Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

    W v W - DAOC RvR

    Dynamic Events - Rift

    Personal Stories - SWTOR

     

    They forgot to add 10+ man PVE.

     

    My main concern is the leveling experience especially the replayability of alts.  Hopefully they'll have an open beta or trial at some point.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Originally posted by Rohn

    It has everything other games have been bashed relentlessly for.

    It may suprise you to know that very few people outside of places like MMORPG.com "relentlessly bash" on these kinds of systems and game play.

  • CavodCavod Brookfield, WIPosts: 295Member

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    A MMO is the sum of its parts.

    It is far, far too simple to just say that they took a little from this and a little from that and blending it together and somehow magically you have a game.

    It's all about implementation.

    Their ideas may not be 100% unique, but their implementation of them certainly is AND innovation is often something that isn't 100% new and unique but rather a new way of doing something.

    Very few people could argue against the fact that Apple is an innovative company - even though I despise i-anything.

    MP3 players existed before iPods, tablets existed before iPads, laptops existed before iBooks, etc. etc.

    But their implementation of these devices was both revolutionary and innovative.

    Over-priced, simplistic, locked down garbage IMO but still I cannot deny their innovation and the revolution(s) they began with their products.

    Some of the people on these forums would have you believe that everything is just an EQ clone and EQ is just a MUD clone with graphics and MUDs are just....  Over simplification at it's finest.   Kind of funny that, considering what you brought up.(Apple... which I 100% whole heartily agree with)

    We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Originally posted by FrodoFragins

     

    They forgot to add 10+ man PVE.

    No, they just have 100+ man scaling PvE in the open world...

     

  • pacovpacov Saskatoon, SKPosts: 311Member

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Originally posted by steeler989


    Originally posted by Lucioon

    GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

    I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

    And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

    Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

    W v W - DAOC RvR

    Dynamic Events - Rift

    Personal Stories - SWTOR

     

     

     

     

     Now many can argue with this. The "Rifts" Would come up in the same place, be the same thing, and people could just farm on them (Like I did : P )

    GW2 has ACTUAL Dynamic Events, that people don't know what will come up and where.

    GW2's DE's are anything but dynamic. It's a cyclical flow chart of events

    Dynamic - (of a process or system) Characterized by constant change, activity, or progress.

    image
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,931Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Originally posted by FrodoFragins

     

    They forgot to add 10+ man PVE.

    No, they just have 100+ man scaling PvE in the open world...

     

    LOL.  Point missed.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,931Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by pacov

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer


    Originally posted by steeler989


    Originally posted by Lucioon

    GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

    I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

    And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

    Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

    W v W - DAOC RvR

    Dynamic Events - Rift

    Personal Stories - SWTOR

     

     

     

     

     Now many can argue with this. The "Rifts" Would come up in the same place, be the same thing, and people could just farm on them (Like I did : P )

    GW2 has ACTUAL Dynamic Events, that people don't know what will come up and where.

    GW2's DE's are anything but dynamic. It's a cyclical flow chart of events

    Dynamic - (of a process or system) Characterized by constant change, activity, or progress.

    He's confusing random for dynamic

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Originally posted by FrodoFragins

    Originally posted by BadSpock


    Originally posted by FrodoFragins

    They forgot to add 10+ man PVE.

    No, they just have 100+ man scaling PvE in the open world...

    LOL.  Point missed.

    Please enlighten than?

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,591Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Kakkzooka

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer


    Originally posted by steeler989


    Originally posted by Lucioon

    GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

    I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

    And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

    Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

    W v W - DAOC RvR

    Dynamic Events - Rift

    Personal Stories - SWTOR

     

     

     

     

     Now many can argue with this. The "Rifts" Would come up in the same place, be the same thing, and people could just farm on them (Like I did : P )

    GW2 has ACTUAL Dynamic Events, that people don't know what will come up and where.

    GW2's DE's are anything but dynamic. It's a cyclical flow chart of events

    I'm also interested in hearing how you think the grapes taste.

    Calm down there Sparky. I'm not knocking it, it's definately a step forward. But I don't think they are properly labeled. True dynamic content cannot be scripted. At least not with today's current technology. True Dynamic Content is generally player based content. 

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Calm down there Sparky. I'm not knocking it, it's definately a step forward. But I don't think they are properly labeled. True dynamic content cannot be scripted. At least not with today's current technology. True Dynamic Content is generally player based content. 

    This is very true.

     

  • FionFion Montour Falls, NYPosts: 2,351Member

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    GW2's DE's are anything but dynamic. It's a cyclical flow chart of events

     

    I'm afraid your rather wrong on that one. Some DE's are on a cycle certainly but a great many of them are sparked in other ways. Some DE's don't start until a player discovers them, others don't start until or unless a different DE reaches a specific point in the chain and still others, like Meta-Events, can require all of the above.

    It's why some poeple (myself included) have played the game multiple times in the same areas and had different things happening in them. Not just simple 'DE failed so the town is taken over', but dramatic changes like weather differences, areas where different mobs populating them than before, etc. My experience comes from playing at last years PAX East and just playing the human starting zone (after the tutorial) there were a number of differences between each 40 minute slot. I spent a 'lot' of time at that booth lol.

    Also do note that in the beta a number of DE's are on faster cycles, and still other large Meta Events kick off early and often, without the chain that would normally lead up to them. It's why the lower lvl dragons spawn repeatedly in the beta (and during demonstrations), so poeple can actually experience them.

     

    image

  • pacovpacov Saskatoon, SKPosts: 311Member

    Originally posted by Fion

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer



    GW2's DE's are anything but dynamic. It's a cyclical flow chart of events

     

    I'm afraid your dead wrong on that one. Some DE's are on a cycle certainly but a great many of them are sparked in other ways. Some DE's don't start until a player discovers them, others don't start until or unless a different DE reaches a specific point in the chain and still others, like Meta-Events, can require all of the above.

    It's why some poeple (myself included) have played the game multiple times in the same areas and had different things happening in them. Not just simple 'DE failed so the town is taken over', but dramatic changes like weather differences, areas where different mobs populating them than before, etc.

     

    I also think many uninformed players confuse dynamic events with hearts which are sort of traditional quests and are not dynamic

    image
  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Originally posted by Kakkzooka


    Originally posted by GeezerGamer


    Originally posted by steeler989


    Originally posted by Lucioon

    GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

    I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

    And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

    Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

    W v W - DAOC RvR

    Dynamic Events - Rift

    Personal Stories - SWTOR

     Now many can argue with this. The "Rifts" Would come up in the same place, be the same thing, and people could just farm on them (Like I did : P )

    GW2 has ACTUAL Dynamic Events, that people don't know what will come up and where.

    GW2's DE's are anything but dynamic. It's a cyclical flow chart of events

    I'm also interested in hearing how you think the grapes taste.

    Calm down there Sparky. I'm not knocking it, it's definately a step forward. But I don't think they are properly labeled. True dynamic content cannot be scripted. At least not with today's current technology. True Dynamic Content is generally player based content. 

    This is well said, especially in light of the thread.  The last game I played that had true dynamic events was Lineage.

    With that said I think it's good when an MMO takes previously released systems and makes them their own, polishing and improving on them.  We need less "innovation" and more polished well integrated systems in our new MMOs.  This is one thing I think RIFT did very well - improve on traditional systems from EQ2, WoW, and other themeparks and then polish and make them their own.

    RIFT didn't invent dynamic events either.  They were around before that in older games, but were generally relegated to periodic event periods.  Trion just improved upon and iterated the idea of a dynamic event.  This is what ANet is doing with them.  Hopefully Trion and others will take the ideas of incorporating quest chains into their dynamic events and push the idea even further.

  • BoatsmateBoatsmate Springfield, MOPosts: 208Member

    Originally posted by Lucioon

    GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

    I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

    And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

    Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

    W v W - DAOC RvR

    Dynamic Events - Rift

    Personal Stories - SWTOR

     Well that comparison has been the bread and butter of those looking to denigrate a game's originality since the beginning of modern ,online gaming. Try stating here that WoW stole everything it has from EQ1, and other earlier games, and old gamers will predate that comparison with even earlier games.It kind of gets like rolling up your sleeve to see who has the biggest muscles. It never ends and nobody agrees. There is no shame in making a better wheel.

     

     

     

     

    Ballerinas are always on their toes. Why don't they just get taller ballerinas?

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