There is no doubt in my mind that the game not only needs saving, but can be saved.. i don't think the solution is even all that radical, the first step, imo, would be to create a cross server 'dungeon tool' that would allow players to group together regardless of current location, and do flashpoint missions, the current system does not work. Without that first step, i don't think the game has much of a future. Blizzard didnt introduce those tools to their game without good reason, Bioware needs to understand why they did it, and implement something similar. They could even give more 'funcitonality' to guilds by giving guilds the ability to 'kick down' to another guild members level in order to do flashpoints etc, together with them, i know this is a game mechanic that guildwars is implementing in their game, but any game that doesnt learn from others successes, and their own mistakes, is doomed to repeat them. Maybe once the game becomes a real MMO, in terms of players able to group together to do content with a minimum of time wasted/difficulty then the more likely it will be that players will stay, despite other, perhaps less impacting, game issues,
very tough. so many bad decision were made during the whole process that to fix this game now it will probably take way more work then to start a new one. so much lazyness, so little vision, so little soul.
1) the first thing that absolutely has to change is the feel of combat. it is just too static, unresponsive, awkward, slow, un inspired....for heaven's sake even DC online has funner feeling combat then TOR. the absolutely best thing about WoW is just how smooth and responsive the combat is. this should be priority #1. now i dont actually know how to make the combat feel better but it has to be done.
2) stop focusing on voice overs. the majority of people dont want a friken voice over on every damn quest. main story line sure, but not every single damn quest.
3) you've got to come up with new worlds that dont feel like a bunch of rails in a box. i cannot stress how small and funneled all maps in this game feel. make one BIG world that it's open (no unscalable cliffs that funnel you, no invisible walls everywere), that is big so you can explore, and dont just make a huge usless city that takes up 1/4 of the map. WoW has a huge world, if you were to walk from the top of Kalimodor to the bottom it would take you hours. worlds that feels alive and not just "oh those mobs are there because i need something to kill". on pvp worlds make this world open pvp ffs, that's the whole point of rolling on a pvp server.
4) somehow change the space aspect of this game so it feels like you are actually piloting your ship from point A to point B. the current space part ofthe game is soo lazy, boring, and completely redundant. it's basically a house with screen that makes it look like you are in space, nobody is fooled. also the space mini games are horrendous.
I'd tell EA that working for you has been a mistake and we(bioware) are going to go back to making quality games without you rather than crap games with you.
I'd do exactly what was never done in the 1st place.
Homework!
Find out who wants a Star Wars MMO game. Find out who doesn't. Then determine the reasons why. Then see if there are those who don't want it who can be brought over to those who do without sacrificing thoes in the 1st group. Then you grill that 1st group to find out what makes them tick. What stimulates them, what turns them on and off. Keep them in the loop at all times during the planning of the game. Make no assumtions. Find out what the market wants. Find out what they don't want and give it to them. Do not think that because someone else did it, it's repeatable. If it means scrapping the current game for a redesign...Then DO IT! Sony was able to do it. Yes, they failed, but that's because they took it the wrong way. And no, I am not suggesting converting it to SWG. I am just suggesting to find out what will make people want to stay in the game for month after month.
It is not possible to make an 12 mln game out of it.
To be honest apart of few F2P heavy-asian games on Chinese market no game will gain 12 mln again anytime soon.
Simple as that.
While playerbase overall is bigger and it expanding , there is far far more game now than few years ago and new ones keep pouring in.
There is no chance in hell that any mmorpg will dominate whole market as hard as WoW have done it in next 5 or so years.
There will be few quite big popular titles with 1 mln + populations. Some might even jump to 4-5 mln , there will be no 12 mln anymore anytime soon (with exclude of those very specific Asian only chinese f2p grinders that have i insane populations , simialr like Runescape once had - still for many reasons RS did not earn that amount of cash like WoW did and that was one of reasons it could have that big playerbase).
That kind of domination WoW had (and partially still do but it is melting fast) is almost only possible on 'fresh markets'.
Let me explain - LoL is like WoW for MOBA games. There is fierce fight in Moba genre and it will be even bigger with many upcoming titles.
Dota 2 is big project financed propably ALOT more than LoL was in it's development time. Will it gain as high playerbase as LoL?
No it won't.
It WILL be popular and it will get some players from LoL and it will propably be second most popular MOBA and maybe in some years time it will be most popular or maybe it won't.
Still there is no easy "let's make next 10 mln users MOBA". It will just not happen as MOBA market is starting to mature (but still 'fresh' compared to mmorpg market).
That's why so many MMOFPS and MMORTS big titles are coming out in next 2 years. Cause companies hope for 'mmorts or mmofps boom' simialr to mmorpg and MOBA's boom and know that best of those titles in each of this 2 genres will propably gain ALOT of players and their moneys.
Players coming late to already developed market have very very low chance of dominating market as much as 'first big success' did. It is not impossible (see CoD and FPS games) but it is very hard and actually not very propable.
Better stick with lesser goals and make business project for more realistic goals imo.
Some finance guys does not seem to realize that and want 10 millons users and BILLIONS of revenue game right out of box.
Guess they will never learn.
Putting alot of money can make you popular game , but it won't guarantee HUGE BIG MAMOOTH TOTAL DOMINATION game like WoW and LoL were / are in their genres.
I'd get to work and develop an expansion that creates a world for players to live in and build community, and not try build them a single player game within a MMO with each new expansion as was done with the core game. Each player has their story, I'd give them a world to go live in with a toon after it's been shaped by their personal experience with the story in the core game. All stories then come from the happenings of the community and the tools. Turn TOR into a themepark sandbox hybrid in other words is what I'd do to fix the game.
If someone at EA put me in charge of TOR and told me to "save it"... what would I do?
I would resign.
I'd also suggest that the person/people who put me in charge step down as well.
If you want a response where I'd have to stay. I don't think you "save" a game that is already launched. Companies that decide games need to be saved.. realize that they need a "new game".
I would personally think it makes more sense to create an entirely new game.. that you entirely own. The biggest mistake every single Star Wars MMO will make... is making a Star Wars MMO to begin with.
New game... new world.. new lore just for the game. With the emphasis on long term play instead of crap that doesn't matter beyond the first play through. yadda yadda
Way too late to change to fundamental structure of the game - like with SWG's NGE, that would most likely do more harm than good, even if it were made a better game by some standards - it'd mostly be standards of those who quit and won't be coming back no matter what.
What I'd do is just focus on the action elements that are already there. Make space combat more fun, make the PvP more fun, make the core combat mechanics more exciting, and make sure a lot of it is still rewarding at endgame. Seriously rework those existing systems so that they're more than just items to be checked off a list of what MMOs should have. Even if it means hiring someone new, who's experienced with making games that have been widely considered fun, rather than depending so much on Bioware's people who seem to get lost without being able to focus so much on the narrative.
Give players (who at least kinda already like the game the way it is) compelling reasons to stick around. Tie more of it into character/ship customization, so that players will feel more personally invested in their characters. Focus on casual star wars fans who just want to jump in and have fun rewarding things to do - keeping in mind that even a lot of those casual players are going to be sitting at the level cap.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
1) Convert the game into buy to play with a reasonable cash shop now. Don't wait until the player base drops 50% and you have to merge tons of servers and the game goes into the same subscription death spiral we've seen for just about every AAA MMO the last few years. Players will be much more patient with all of the other issues with the game if they aren't having to pay a monthly subscription fee.
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
1) Convert the game into buy to play with a reasonable cash shop now. Don't wait until the player base drops 50% and you have to merge tons of servers and the game goes into the same subscription death spiral we've seen for just about every AAA MMO the last few years. Players will be much more patient with all of the other issues with the game if they aren't having to pay a monthly subscription fee. 2) Fix all the other issues with the game.
Yeah, drop the sub and charge per spacebar during cutscenes
^ I agree with this, I am hoping swtor goes belly up so it'll show devolopers that cheezy world of warcraft/themepark clones just aren't cared for much anymore. Themeparks are dying, people getting tired of the same game being rehashed by all these diffrent devolopers. Sadly, other than Dark age of camelot I haven't seen any other mmo that has gotten the formula right. in daoc they had good pve and good pvp, in most mmo's they focus too much on one side (usually pve) and the pvp side sucks. There is really no reason why they can't do both sides properly instead of focusing too much on one side (usually pve) and screwing the pvp side up. Good pvp requires raiding for gear, no pvp-earnable gear, but have some alternate advance thru pvp like daoc did, to give pvp a good reason to be done. It also needs goals, like land control and such or else the common cattle aka casuals won't bother.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
The core game would have to be scrapped. Only the visual and audio components are reuseable. Everything else is just trash.
This is also true, I don't think swtor can be saved, they'd pretty much have to remake the entire game from the ground up. Which since EA is behind it really, EA would prob just close it entirely like they have with all their other failed mmo's.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
I would take elements of SWTOR and SWG and marry them. I hate the hero engine and how restricting it is. I do like SWTOR, but some aspects of the game really needs help.
Comments
There is no doubt in my mind that the game not only needs saving, but can be saved.. i don't think the solution is even all that radical, the first step, imo, would be to create a cross server 'dungeon tool' that would allow players to group together regardless of current location, and do flashpoint missions, the current system does not work. Without that first step, i don't think the game has much of a future. Blizzard didnt introduce those tools to their game without good reason, Bioware needs to understand why they did it, and implement something similar. They could even give more 'funcitonality' to guilds by giving guilds the ability to 'kick down' to another guild members level in order to do flashpoints etc, together with them, i know this is a game mechanic that guildwars is implementing in their game, but any game that doesnt learn from others successes, and their own mistakes, is doomed to repeat them. Maybe once the game becomes a real MMO, in terms of players able to group together to do content with a minimum of time wasted/difficulty then the more likely it will be that players will stay, despite other, perhaps less impacting, game issues,
Add Pandas!
Before or after selling all your EA stocks?
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
to OP.
very tough. so many bad decision were made during the whole process that to fix this game now it will probably take way more work then to start a new one. so much lazyness, so little vision, so little soul.
1) the first thing that absolutely has to change is the feel of combat. it is just too static, unresponsive, awkward, slow, un inspired....for heaven's sake even DC online has funner feeling combat then TOR. the absolutely best thing about WoW is just how smooth and responsive the combat is. this should be priority #1. now i dont actually know how to make the combat feel better but it has to be done.
2) stop focusing on voice overs. the majority of people dont want a friken voice over on every damn quest. main story line sure, but not every single damn quest.
3) you've got to come up with new worlds that dont feel like a bunch of rails in a box. i cannot stress how small and funneled all maps in this game feel. make one BIG world that it's open (no unscalable cliffs that funnel you, no invisible walls everywere), that is big so you can explore, and dont just make a huge usless city that takes up 1/4 of the map. WoW has a huge world, if you were to walk from the top of Kalimodor to the bottom it would take you hours. worlds that feels alive and not just "oh those mobs are there because i need something to kill". on pvp worlds make this world open pvp ffs, that's the whole point of rolling on a pvp server.
4) somehow change the space aspect of this game so it feels like you are actually piloting your ship from point A to point B. the current space part ofthe game is soo lazy, boring, and completely redundant. it's basically a house with screen that makes it look like you are in space, nobody is fooled. also the space mini games are horrendous.
I'd tell EA that working for you has been a mistake and we(bioware) are going to go back to making quality games without you rather than crap games with you.
I'd do exactly what was never done in the 1st place.
Homework!
Find out who wants a Star Wars MMO game. Find out who doesn't. Then determine the reasons why. Then see if there are those who don't want it who can be brought over to those who do without sacrificing thoes in the 1st group. Then you grill that 1st group to find out what makes them tick. What stimulates them, what turns them on and off. Keep them in the loop at all times during the planning of the game. Make no assumtions. Find out what the market wants. Find out what they don't want and give it to them. Do not think that because someone else did it, it's repeatable. If it means scrapping the current game for a redesign...Then DO IT! Sony was able to do it. Yes, they failed, but that's because they took it the wrong way. And no, I am not suggesting converting it to SWG. I am just suggesting to find out what will make people want to stay in the game for month after month.
It is not possible to make an 12 mln game out of it.
To be honest apart of few F2P heavy-asian games on Chinese market no game will gain 12 mln again anytime soon.
Simple as that.
While playerbase overall is bigger and it expanding , there is far far more game now than few years ago and new ones keep pouring in.
There is no chance in hell that any mmorpg will dominate whole market as hard as WoW have done it in next 5 or so years.
There will be few quite big popular titles with 1 mln + populations. Some might even jump to 4-5 mln , there will be no 12 mln anymore anytime soon (with exclude of those very specific Asian only chinese f2p grinders that have i insane populations , simialr like Runescape once had - still for many reasons RS did not earn that amount of cash like WoW did and that was one of reasons it could have that big playerbase).
That kind of domination WoW had (and partially still do but it is melting fast) is almost only possible on 'fresh markets'.
Let me explain - LoL is like WoW for MOBA games. There is fierce fight in Moba genre and it will be even bigger with many upcoming titles.
Dota 2 is big project financed propably ALOT more than LoL was in it's development time. Will it gain as high playerbase as LoL?
No it won't.
It WILL be popular and it will get some players from LoL and it will propably be second most popular MOBA and maybe in some years time it will be most popular or maybe it won't.
Still there is no easy "let's make next 10 mln users MOBA". It will just not happen as MOBA market is starting to mature (but still 'fresh' compared to mmorpg market).
That's why so many MMOFPS and MMORTS big titles are coming out in next 2 years. Cause companies hope for 'mmorts or mmofps boom' simialr to mmorpg and MOBA's boom and know that best of those titles in each of this 2 genres will propably gain ALOT of players and their moneys.
Players coming late to already developed market have very very low chance of dominating market as much as 'first big success' did. It is not impossible (see CoD and FPS games) but it is very hard and actually not very propable.
Better stick with lesser goals and make business project for more realistic goals imo.
Some finance guys does not seem to realize that and want 10 millons users and BILLIONS of revenue game right out of box.
Guess they will never learn.
Putting alot of money can make you popular game , but it won't guarantee HUGE BIG MAMOOTH TOTAL DOMINATION game like WoW and LoL were / are in their genres.
Before or after selling all your EA stocks?
I am just RPing the mindset of a BW exec.I'd get to work and develop an expansion that creates a world for players to live in and build community, and not try build them a single player game within a MMO with each new expansion as was done with the core game. Each player has their story, I'd give them a world to go live in with a toon after it's been shaped by their personal experience with the story in the core game. All stories then come from the happenings of the community and the tools. Turn TOR into a themepark sandbox hybrid in other words is what I'd do to fix the game.
If someone at EA put me in charge of TOR and told me to "save it"... what would I do?
I would resign.
I'd also suggest that the person/people who put me in charge step down as well.
If you want a response where I'd have to stay. I don't think you "save" a game that is already launched. Companies that decide games need to be saved.. realize that they need a "new game".
I would personally think it makes more sense to create an entirely new game.. that you entirely own. The biggest mistake every single Star Wars MMO will make... is making a Star Wars MMO to begin with.
New game... new world.. new lore just for the game. With the emphasis on long term play instead of crap that doesn't matter beyond the first play through. yadda yadda
At this point, the game can only be saved before the eyes of God.
1- Hire a professional team of exorcists consisting of that old priest from the movie "The Exorcist".
2- Douse the server room in Holy Water.
3- Allow it to dry with incense laiden air.
4- Cover in sanctified lamp oil.
5- Have the Pope himself fly from Rome to light the match before a crowd of 50 thousand praying people.
It apparently takes 100k+ Rems to kill a cockroach. We'd need Russian backup on this one.
Way too late to change to fundamental structure of the game - like with SWG's NGE, that would most likely do more harm than good, even if it were made a better game by some standards - it'd mostly be standards of those who quit and won't be coming back no matter what.
What I'd do is just focus on the action elements that are already there. Make space combat more fun, make the PvP more fun, make the core combat mechanics more exciting, and make sure a lot of it is still rewarding at endgame. Seriously rework those existing systems so that they're more than just items to be checked off a list of what MMOs should have. Even if it means hiring someone new, who's experienced with making games that have been widely considered fun, rather than depending so much on Bioware's people who seem to get lost without being able to focus so much on the narrative.
Give players (who at least kinda already like the game the way it is) compelling reasons to stick around. Tie more of it into character/ship customization, so that players will feel more personally invested in their characters. Focus on casual star wars fans who just want to jump in and have fun rewarding things to do - keeping in mind that even a lot of those casual players are going to be sitting at the level cap.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
1) Convert the game into buy to play with a reasonable cash shop now. Don't wait until the player base drops 50% and you have to merge tons of servers and the game goes into the same subscription death spiral we've seen for just about every AAA MMO the last few years. Players will be much more patient with all of the other issues with the game if they aren't having to pay a monthly subscription fee.
2) Fix all the other issues with the game.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
Send him 1.7 Million Cupcakes
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Sell the game to Perfect World International
Bring SWG style housing, crafting, space and PVP to SWTOR's fabulous story line and graphics!!!!
I tell him it's impossibru.
The core game would have to be scrapped. Only the visual and audio components are reuseable. Everything else is just trash.
Yeah, drop the sub and charge per spacebar during cutscenes^ I agree with this, I am hoping swtor goes belly up so it'll show devolopers that cheezy world of warcraft/themepark clones just aren't cared for much anymore. Themeparks are dying, people getting tired of the same game being rehashed by all these diffrent devolopers. Sadly, other than Dark age of camelot I haven't seen any other mmo that has gotten the formula right. in daoc they had good pve and good pvp, in most mmo's they focus too much on one side (usually pve) and the pvp side sucks. There is really no reason why they can't do both sides properly instead of focusing too much on one side (usually pve) and screwing the pvp side up. Good pvp requires raiding for gear, no pvp-earnable gear, but have some alternate advance thru pvp like daoc did, to give pvp a good reason to be done. It also needs goals, like land control and such or else the common cattle aka casuals won't bother.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
This is also true, I don't think swtor can be saved, they'd pretty much have to remake the entire game from the ground up. Which since EA is behind it really, EA would prob just close it entirely like they have with all their other failed mmo's.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
I would take elements of SWTOR and SWG and marry them. I hate the hero engine and how restricting it is. I do like SWTOR, but some aspects of the game really needs help.
Slap to the face then tell them to stop being delusional.