While i am not a Guild Wars fan and having WoW as my main game i still bought the original game and it´s expansions despite the fact i barely played them at all originally simply because i wanted to support the business format it proposes.
Years later i decided to play it in one of my "I am bored of everything" periods and i had a blast following a few of the storylines, then i stopped playing for like a year, and then went back and had fun following yet some more storylines.
In the end, the fact that it had no monthly fee allowed me to take it at my own pace and enjoy the game whenever i wanted, which down the road more than paid the original investment and still today feels like one of my best mmo purchases ever.
I pre purchased Guild Wars 2 for the very same reason and because i know that despite all the flaws that it may have it will still be a decent, inmersive game that will give me many a evenings of exploring and adventuring along the years which is all i ask off it.
Not having monthly fees adds 0 pressure and keeps or even boosts all the value of my original purchase.
I bought the Guild Wars 2 prepurchase yesterday knowing that the game was not completely finished and the cash shop items had not been finalized... and I thought I'd share why I've done this despite never having ever preordered a game before.
How many MMOs change after you purchase them? All of them do, and most change in very drastic ways over the years. Buying a finished MMO doesn't guarantee that the game won't change for the worse at any given time.
How many cash shops change over time? I'm not aware of any game with a cash shop that doesn't add, remove or modify the items that they sell through the cash shop over time.
Given the numerous Guild Wars 2 beta videos that are out there I am confident that Guild Wars 2 is not just playable but has more polish than some recent final releases have had despite being incomplete. I'm not afraid of a Vanguard repeat. Even more, since Guild Wars 2 has no monthly fee the only way for them to keep making money off the game is to make the game so fun that I want to keep coming back to buy expansions and cash shop items. This isn't a problem for me.
Given Arenanet's reputation with Guild Wars and knowing that players can trade in-game gold for cash shop gems, I am not concerned with future cash shop items. If the cash shop items ruin the game then I'll stop playing... until the problem is addressed. The game has no monthly fee. I'm not out anything if I decide to play some other game. It's not like I'll have a subscription burning while I stew over unpopular changes to the game. This isn't a problem for me.
If you're not sure about the game or the cash shop then don't prepurchase it. It's not like they're going to run out of digital copies after the game is released. Wait and see. I'm sure that other people who have prepurchased, like me, will be posting game reviews after each beta weekend all the way up to and after the game's release.
I don't think that prepurchasing an unfinished game usually makes sense but it did for me this time. I'd probably prepurchase diablo 3 (in fact, didn't people already do this by signing up for blizzard's annual pass thing?) since blizzard is fairly reputable, but I can't think of any other games that I'd do this for off the top of my head.
its like you've read my mind and spoke for me hehhe i prepurchased GW2 and Diablo 3 for the exact same thoughts...well said!
Tormented echoes of a fallen Eden I longed for her beauty Yet from dust, she returned The dream, an enigma.... silent
im waiting for the game for about 5 years i love what i c till this day and dont care what other think about it im gonna play it and that mi final desition ,if im gonna judge the game, im playing miself and then ill be the judge if like it or not i dont give a fk if lovers or hater give they personal opinion mi desition is final and that the way people suposed to think abouth theyr own personal desitions and things in life .
the best advise in life is the one you learn by yourself even doing good or bad things in life.
So, I should ignore all scientific studies regarding drinking and smoking and just try them and form my own opinion?
Point being: while you can learn good advice through personal trials, there is also good advice to be found from other sources.
234
Your whole argument is " When Companies is selling products that they don't yet have ready to sell, its bad practice" , therefore " Consumers buying products Prior to having Actual Product available, enables Companies to sell products that they don't yet have ready to sell"
Althought your Argument is sound and appropriate.
With the new age of Digital Downloads, and Social Media, its no longer the same as before.
With Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, Bloggers and Wiki, almost everything you need and want to know about the game is available for you to see and analyse.
Even the developers and Creators of the game is available to talk and answer your questions.
Because of the Social aspects, the product you are purchasing aren't unfamiliar to you anymore, not only does it create the false familiarity, it also makes Pre-Purchasing an extremely comfortable decision.
Is it truly a Bad Practice? Its only bad if Companies uses this method to promote a product that they know will tank and fail
But in good practice, it will promote the Companies and enable them to increase the production and polish of their product knowing that the masses have such great faith in their products.
And also due to the increase in Social Media in this Super Information age, if a company uses these methods in Bad Practices, we as gamers will bring down net in discussions and petitions.
SWTOR Ilum PVP was the Beginning, Mass Effect 3 Ending Opened the Door....
We as Gamers have more power, we have a Voice that can be heard around the world.
So embrace the new age, and experience the new evolution of PRE-ORDERS that we are now calling PRE-PURCHASE
Pre-order and pre-purchase are not the same thing at all. Why would anyone pretend it is? This new age reminds me of "the emperors new cloths".
Why do you think they have a NDA? They will not answer any questions that they think they need to keep secret. Public/open beta testers will probably only be allowed to see and experience parts of the game and its content. Not like closed beta testers...
They dont want information that they think could be harmful to become public. There are other reasons also. But thats part of it.
Pre-order and Pre-Purchase aren't the same things, I never said they are, in my post I said Pre-Purchase is the evolution of Pre-Orders.
Pre-Order, you are agreeing to yourself that once the game goes live, I will have a copy reserved and ready for pick up. I can either pay in full prior to release date, or Pay 5 dollars to ensure I have a copy. Or i can cancel if I decided that the game isn't want I want afterall.
Pre-Purchase, you are agreeing to yourself that once the game goes live, My game is already paid in full, its mine, the game company is just holding it. I know I have a copy, I know that I am stuck if I decided last minute that I don't actually want it afterall.
its really an evolution of another.
And your NDA, of course its there, but if you compare to a few years ago, where did you get all your informations regarding UO, EQ, WOW, you didn't get any insider views, Bloggers aren't given Press privileges. The only information was only from TV interviews.
NDA have to exist to ensure that any information they present are information they are ready to be presented, others are kept not as secret, but rather as an Unknown.
I dont think it should be called evolution. From the consumers/players point of view its worse. If anything it should be called devolution. But I can understand that a lot of companies will be happy if players in general accept and are prepared to pay in advance for games with no release date.
I dont care if there is a NDA when a game is far from finished and not ready to be released. I can understand that. But I dont think its OK if they want me to pay full price in advance for a game that I dont know when it will be ready to be released.
People with press privileges that are allowed to write about selected parts of the game are part of the advertizing. Im not saying it in itself is all bad. Often its better than no info at all. But they are not allowed to write about things that the company think would make the game appear bad. Everyone knows that. At least I hope they do...
Some companies(not all) use the NDA to prevent people from learning about controversial features or problems they know they will not be able to fix. Because they know it would hurt the company. And for them its best if most people learn about those things after release.
Most cases? Can you give us even ONE case, where the CS went from cosmetic to P2W?
As for people wanting to trust Anet, why do you have a problem with that? Do you have some kind of investment to protect?
If you count F2P games: Maplestory went from purely cosmetic to P2W with the inclusion of the lottery/gamble-for-items system called Gachapon. While it had no PvP at the time, people competed a lot about who had best gear. Through Gachapon, item-mallers gained insane amounts of buying-power which they used to get very powerful.
However, as long as GW2 keeps it easy for people to catch with item-mallers (which is why I am concerned about how quickly guilds will be able to grind for buffs), it won't be P2W PvP nor PvE stat/skill/gear-wise.
Maple Story is a F2P game. Guild Wars 2 is not. The major difference is that F2P games make all of their money from microtransactions. GW2 makes almost all of it's money from box sales.
That's what i find ironic, people are defending a f2p game that is charging them 60 bucks for a box.
Can any sense be found in the above statement?
Plenty, but fanbois become so angry when it is suggested that all may not be perfect with this game, its bizzarre really almost like religious fervor, that they go into convulsions.
So everyone who disagrees with you is a fanboi?
Absolutely not, but the people who take it personally whenever anyone dares be raise the spectre of critical issues with this game are deffinitely fan bois, they have a lot more emotionally invested in this than the rest of us. Again, i want it to be good and not be p2w, I want to be wrong, who doesn't want an awesome game to play? Just knowing what I know of games, corporations and the world leads me to think otherwise. I could be wrong, I hope I'm wrong...........
Criticism has to be based on reality. The claims you have made are not. That is why people don't take you seriously.
How can something FREE cost you $60!? that make no sense, at least for me. GW2 is a b2p mmorpg with no sub.
Who say MMORPGs must have a sub? blizzard? (I don't know who was the first with sub but that's always the reference)
Well from my experience I prefer the CS before any p2p model designed to suck your life with dailies quest, weekly raids, limit on honor/valor points earn per week, rolls for gear, etc. At the end you need at least 3 or 4 month to get a full set even if you have all the time on the world, isn't possible to earn it faster...
GW2 is not technically F2P, since it does require players to purchase the game. However, unlike most AAA mmorpgs, GW2 has no subs, in that regards, people consider it a F2P game.
As to the CS, it appears that the only edge players will have over others will be access to items such as lvl'ing buffs, resurrection Orbs, instant repair abilities and crafting, karma and rare item finding boosts. I'm certain there will be many other items similar in nature to these.
The key is that in compettive structured pvp, all players will be maximized and equal in every way, so the CS will not affect competitive structured pvp. In regards to PVE, everyone will be working together to defeat monsters/bosses and completing quests/dynamic events, so... it is in everyone's best interest that people are as buffed as possible.
As to the Mists (wvw) I can see how some players will cry "foul" when guilds from other servers appear to have some of the benefits already mentioned above. I can somewhat see their frustruation, but on the other hand I really don't see how it is "unfair". As far as we know there are no items in the CS that severely strengthens (dmg boost) a player over another; only real benefit is lvl'ing speed.
If people really want a truly "fair" mmorpg, then there would be no lvls, only one playable class/profession, with only one set of armor, weapons and abilities. Better and more talented players would have to be limited in some way by the GMs in order to make it fair for those who aren't as talented as them.
OMG! Just yesterday I bought a pizza and a half pitcher of beer, before the product was finished!
Well, I guess the beer was finished, but it could have been flat! That means I totally got ripped off!!
Why the hell am I paying for my food ahead of time, when its an unfinished product!
If the pizza is not to your specifications what happens? Totally different scenario.
In many cases there's no way to get money back on a game, food services have a totally different policy on this type of thing. That's why they're a horrible comparison to make. How many games have issued recalls and 100% money back on dissatisfaction?
I think the point many are missing is; this is viewed as one of the major reasons games release as they have been. There were a few articles floating around even on this site on the subject. We can only expect what we accept afterall, mass pre-order only says one thing, all you have to do is showcase the game as awesome to rake in the big bucks.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
OMG! Just yesterday I bought a pizza and a half pitcher of beer, before the product was finished!
Well, I guess the beer was finished, but it could have been flat! That means I totally got ripped off!!
Why the hell am I paying for my food ahead of time, when its an unfinished product!
If the pizza is not to your specifications what happens? Totally different scenario.
In many cases there's no way to get money back on a game, food services have a totally different policy on this type of thing. That's why they're a horrible comparison to make. How many games have issued recalls and 100% money back on dissatisfaction?
I think the point many are missing is; this is viewed as one of the major reasons games release as they have been. There were a few articles floating around even on this site on the subject. We can only expect what we accept afterall, mass pre-order only says one thing, all you have to do is showcase the game as awesome to rake in the big bucks.
except we know what to expect from gw2, but, like the pizza, the question remains: will it be good? we've staked our money on it being so. (the analogy's not perfect, but it works).
In many cases there's no way to get money back on a game, food services have a totally different policy on this type of thing. That's why they're a horrible comparison to make. How many games have issued recalls and 100% money back on dissatisfaction?
I think the point many are missing is; this is viewed as one of the major reasons games release as they have been. There were a few articles floating around even on this site on the subject. We can only expect what we accept afterall, mass pre-order only says one thing, all you have to do is showcase the game as awesome to rake in the big bucks.
except we know what to expect from gw2, but, like the pizza, the question remains: will it be good? we've staked our money on it being so. (the analogy's not perfect, but it works).
It doesn't work because the consequences are different.
Like TOR at this point we don't know the most important thing in regard to an MMO, longevity. We've seen very little in terms of post 30 game-play. How can we know what to expect? Will there be a point in repeating early content over and over again? Will that remain fun? Will the dungeons offer enough to run those over and over? WIll the PVP? How about strong community elements?
These are the questions that remain. Again in reference to the point above what are we (as a whole) supporting in the MMORPG verse? We're being sold on the idea of leveling experiences and finite content.
The same could be said about just about every MMO to release since WOW took off. All marketing and attention is given to stories, content mechanics and PVP objectives. Nothing what so ever is said about how they're handling the bigger picture, what reason is there to form what makes a true MMO thrive?
This is the reason I do not support or appreciate the support of pre-ordering. OF late it seems the larger the amount of pre-orders the less companies care about creating lasting games. It's all about fast thrills it seems today.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
In many cases there's no way to get money back on a game, food services have a totally different policy on this type of thing. That's why they're a horrible comparison to make. How many games have issued recalls and 100% money back on dissatisfaction?
I think the point many are missing is; this is viewed as one of the major reasons games release as they have been. There were a few articles floating around even on this site on the subject. We can only expect what we accept afterall, mass pre-order only says one thing, all you have to do is showcase the game as awesome to rake in the big bucks.
except we know what to expect from gw2, but, like the pizza, the question remains: will it be good? we've staked our money on it being so. (the analogy's not perfect, but it works).
It doesn't work because the consequences are different.
Like TOR at this point we don't know the most important thing in regard to an MMO, longevity. We've seen very little in terms of post 30 game-play. How can we know what to expect? Will there be a point in repeating early content over and over again? Will that remain fun? Will the dungeons offer enough to run those over and over? WIll the PVP? How about strong community elements?
These are the questions that remain. Again in reference to the point above what are we (as a whole) supporting in the MMORPG verse? We're being sold on the idea of leveling experiences and finite content.
The same could be said about just about every MMO to release since WOW took off. All marketing and attention is given to stories, content mechanics and PVP objectives. Nothing what so ever is said about how they're handling the bigger picture, what reason is there to form what makes a true MMO thrive?
This is the reason I do not support or appreciate the support of pre-ordering. OF late it seems the larger the amount of pre-orders the less companies care about creating lasting games. It's all about fast thrills it seems today.
7 years ago, when I was in college, I was a shift manager at a Little Caesar's in a small town in northeast GA. I can say with certainty that half of the pizzas we sold were made after the customer paid for them. Little Caesar's has the "Hot-n-ready" pepperoni and cheese pizzas, but other than those, no pizza was made until the customer paid for it. Our store policy was that if at least half the pizza was eaten then the customer was not entitled to money back or a free pizza if they claimed there was anything wrong with the pizza (many people abused the "customer is always right" concept).
The analogy is not perfect but I think it gets the point across. Our culture is full of business transactions in which buyers and sellers have agreements based on trust (i.e. that the seller will not renege on the deal). We have many mechanisms in place in order to ensure that sellers fulfill their end of the deal (BBB, Angie's List, State/Federal laws, etc). There are thousands of transactions every month in which buyers purchase items before they are made. The pre purchase idea is not new (maybe relatively new to mmos); it is not counter culture, scandalous, dangerous or even risky (in that companies will renege on the game). The idea that pre purchase is somehow a negative aspect of GW2 is baseless; I'm certain that every single Troll out there has pre purchased at least one item in their life (if not more).
If you fear you won't get a game if you pre purchase you have nothing to fear, if you fear you won't like the game if you pre purchase, well... no difference from not liking the game after buying it upon release; no one can help you there. There is nothing wrong with waiting until you are more thoroughly informed (i.e. till/after release) to purchase the game, just like there is nothing wrong with pre purchasing the game now. I believe there is plenty of information available out there to make an informed decision now, but... I don't hold it against anyone who wants to wait for even more information, no problem with that.
Meh, I'd be concerned if this game had a monthly fee. I payed $60 for 'unfinished games' that were shelled out in alpha. Honestly, I'm not too worried about it. Never would have guessed that not paying monthly would ease the tension for me.
Comments
While i am not a Guild Wars fan and having WoW as my main game i still bought the original game and it´s expansions despite the fact i barely played them at all originally simply because i wanted to support the business format it proposes.
Years later i decided to play it in one of my "I am bored of everything" periods and i had a blast following a few of the storylines, then i stopped playing for like a year, and then went back and had fun following yet some more storylines.
In the end, the fact that it had no monthly fee allowed me to take it at my own pace and enjoy the game whenever i wanted, which down the road more than paid the original investment and still today feels like one of my best mmo purchases ever.
I pre purchased Guild Wars 2 for the very same reason and because i know that despite all the flaws that it may have it will still be a decent, inmersive game that will give me many a evenings of exploring and adventuring along the years which is all i ask off it.
Not having monthly fees adds 0 pressure and keeps or even boosts all the value of my original purchase.
Rawr.
its like you've read my mind and spoke for me hehhe i prepurchased GW2 and Diablo 3 for the exact same thoughts...well said!
Tormented echoes of a fallen Eden
I longed for her beauty
Yet from dust, she returned
The dream, an enigma.... silent
I dont think it should be called evolution. From the consumers/players point of view its worse. If anything it should be called devolution. But I can understand that a lot of companies will be happy if players in general accept and are prepared to pay in advance for games with no release date.
I dont care if there is a NDA when a game is far from finished and not ready to be released. I can understand that. But I dont think its OK if they want me to pay full price in advance for a game that I dont know when it will be ready to be released.
People with press privileges that are allowed to write about selected parts of the game are part of the advertizing. Im not saying it in itself is all bad. Often its better than no info at all. But they are not allowed to write about things that the company think would make the game appear bad. Everyone knows that. At least I hope they do...
Some companies(not all) use the NDA to prevent people from learning about controversial features or problems they know they will not be able to fix. Because they know it would hurt the company. And for them its best if most people learn about those things after release.
haha, good point
How can something FREE cost you $60!? that make no sense, at least for me. GW2 is a b2p mmorpg with no sub.
Who say MMORPGs must have a sub? blizzard? (I don't know who was the first with sub but that's always the reference)
Well from my experience I prefer the CS before any p2p model designed to suck your life with dailies quest, weekly raids, limit on honor/valor points earn per week, rolls for gear, etc. At the end you need at least 3 or 4 month to get a full set even if you have all the time on the world, isn't possible to earn it faster...
GW2 is not technically F2P, since it does require players to purchase the game. However, unlike most AAA mmorpgs, GW2 has no subs, in that regards, people consider it a F2P game.
As to the CS, it appears that the only edge players will have over others will be access to items such as lvl'ing buffs, resurrection Orbs, instant repair abilities and crafting, karma and rare item finding boosts. I'm certain there will be many other items similar in nature to these.
The key is that in compettive structured pvp, all players will be maximized and equal in every way, so the CS will not affect competitive structured pvp. In regards to PVE, everyone will be working together to defeat monsters/bosses and completing quests/dynamic events, so... it is in everyone's best interest that people are as buffed as possible.
As to the Mists (wvw) I can see how some players will cry "foul" when guilds from other servers appear to have some of the benefits already mentioned above. I can somewhat see their frustruation, but on the other hand I really don't see how it is "unfair". As far as we know there are no items in the CS that severely strengthens (dmg boost) a player over another; only real benefit is lvl'ing speed.
If people really want a truly "fair" mmorpg, then there would be no lvls, only one playable class/profession, with only one set of armor, weapons and abilities. Better and more talented players would have to be limited in some way by the GMs in order to make it fair for those who aren't as talented as them.
its better just to explain it like a single player game with DLC =P no one understands B2P, the term anyways.
If the pizza is not to your specifications what happens? Totally different scenario.
In many cases there's no way to get money back on a game, food services have a totally different policy on this type of thing. That's why they're a horrible comparison to make. How many games have issued recalls and 100% money back on dissatisfaction?
I think the point many are missing is; this is viewed as one of the major reasons games release as they have been. There were a few articles floating around even on this site on the subject. We can only expect what we accept afterall, mass pre-order only says one thing, all you have to do is showcase the game as awesome to rake in the big bucks.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
except we know what to expect from gw2, but, like the pizza, the question remains: will it be good? we've staked our money on it being so. (the analogy's not perfect, but it works).
It doesn't work because the consequences are different.
Like TOR at this point we don't know the most important thing in regard to an MMO, longevity. We've seen very little in terms of post 30 game-play. How can we know what to expect? Will there be a point in repeating early content over and over again? Will that remain fun? Will the dungeons offer enough to run those over and over? WIll the PVP? How about strong community elements?
These are the questions that remain. Again in reference to the point above what are we (as a whole) supporting in the MMORPG verse? We're being sold on the idea of leveling experiences and finite content.
The same could be said about just about every MMO to release since WOW took off. All marketing and attention is given to stories, content mechanics and PVP objectives. Nothing what so ever is said about how they're handling the bigger picture, what reason is there to form what makes a true MMO thrive?
This is the reason I do not support or appreciate the support of pre-ordering. OF late it seems the larger the amount of pre-orders the less companies care about creating lasting games. It's all about fast thrills it seems today.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
7 years ago, when I was in college, I was a shift manager at a Little Caesar's in a small town in northeast GA. I can say with certainty that half of the pizzas we sold were made after the customer paid for them. Little Caesar's has the "Hot-n-ready" pepperoni and cheese pizzas, but other than those, no pizza was made until the customer paid for it. Our store policy was that if at least half the pizza was eaten then the customer was not entitled to money back or a free pizza if they claimed there was anything wrong with the pizza (many people abused the "customer is always right" concept).
The analogy is not perfect but I think it gets the point across. Our culture is full of business transactions in which buyers and sellers have agreements based on trust (i.e. that the seller will not renege on the deal). We have many mechanisms in place in order to ensure that sellers fulfill their end of the deal (BBB, Angie's List, State/Federal laws, etc). There are thousands of transactions every month in which buyers purchase items before they are made. The pre purchase idea is not new (maybe relatively new to mmos); it is not counter culture, scandalous, dangerous or even risky (in that companies will renege on the game). The idea that pre purchase is somehow a negative aspect of GW2 is baseless; I'm certain that every single Troll out there has pre purchased at least one item in their life (if not more).
If you fear you won't get a game if you pre purchase you have nothing to fear, if you fear you won't like the game if you pre purchase, well... no difference from not liking the game after buying it upon release; no one can help you there. There is nothing wrong with waiting until you are more thoroughly informed (i.e. till/after release) to purchase the game, just like there is nothing wrong with pre purchasing the game now. I believe there is plenty of information available out there to make an informed decision now, but... I don't hold it against anyone who wants to wait for even more information, no problem with that.
Meh, I'd be concerned if this game had a monthly fee. I payed $60 for 'unfinished games' that were shelled out in alpha. Honestly, I'm not too worried about it. Never would have guessed that not paying monthly would ease the tension for me.
Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2