Ahhh so your saying that there arent many long term goals to work for?
Btw, no other game has done the "level doesnt matter much" as well as age of conan, I was killing level 60 players at 22. Mind you, I don't like the game, but what they did with pvp levels vs pve levels was awesome.
I sincerely don't believe that, you have a history of insulting GW2 fans and through the pages of this thread, have done so again, all the while being proven incorrect and getting irritable in response. Maybe you should just not participate if you can't keep your cool.
I sincerely don't believe that, you have a history of insulting GW2 fans and through the pages of this thread, have done so again, all the while being proven incorrect and getting irritable in response. Maybe you should just not participate if you can't keep your cool.
I mean, not to put a damper on things.....
Rofl, insulting? Sorry I don't blindly praise the game like they do, even though I am buying it, i think its going to be fun.
I don't think its some super innovative or drasticaly re-inventing the MMO genre like so many people do. You can continue to revel in the hype, I will stay in reality.
I sincerely don't believe that, you have a history of insulting GW2 fans and through the pages of this thread, have done so again, all the while being proven incorrect and getting irritable in response. Maybe you should just not participate if you can't keep your cool.
I mean, not to put a damper on things.....
Rofl, insulting? Sorry I don't blindly praise the game like they do, even though I am buying it, i think its going to be fun.
I don't think its some super innovative or drasticaly re-inventing the MMO genre like so many people do. You can continue to revel in the hype, I will stay in reality.
Yeah, because that has anything to do with calling people blind and unobjective because they give you the proper definition of zones and instances. What was that about reality?
A zone is a persistant area within a persistant world that all players can travel in and out of whether that be seamless or a load screen at any time.
An instance is an area that is only created and used when a player(s) enters said area for use and no longer exists once the player(s) leave the instance.
A form of instance is also the duplication of a zone, you enter a normal persistant "zone" but because of some developers solution to overcrowding they create a new "instance" of said zone to allow an infinite number of players to use it at any given time, just in a different "instance".
First, you can, there are a few games that bolstered for instanced pvp(instanced is not defined by numbers) and allowed leveling via pvp.
Cinge... I don't know what the problem is. You've been explained what an instance actually is multiple times. It's NOT a zone. By you're logic you could compare every aspect of an MMO to a 'battleground', because they all have loading screens (login screen for one).
Here's an example for you:
TERA (instanced pvp): Each zone has multiple channels that you can switch between, which are exact copies of each other (just have different players in them).
DAoC (not-instanced pvp): There is a pvp zone (an open area in which everyone fights each other). It's not copied, there's only 1.
WAR RvR(not-instanced pvp): Again, pvp exists in an open zone. There were no copies, until you got into the capital cities.
WAR Scenarios (instanced pvp): You have the same maps duplicated multiple times to allow more players to enjoy them.
Hopefully you understand by now that you are using the WRONG termanology for your point.
- That said, the OP is also incorrect. The most obvious example would be WAR. However, that game didn't work in the same way as GW2 is doing. There are games that do have siege-based combat, but none really handle it in quite the same way GW2 does. There are some with bolstering mechanics, but they don't boost you to max lvl from lvl 1.
I say let him have his own notions at this juncture but as for the rest of us we actually know that WvW is an open world non-instanced persistent zoned event.
How is it persistent? It ends, IT ENDS. It declares a permanent winner and a permanent loser and when it ends it RESETS. That is the direct opposite of persistent. Keep Deluding yourself.
It's not open world because it is cut-off from the world, it is not permanently attached to said world. That WvWvW match you just lost, its over, it ended. That "World" you were fighting in no longer exist and is deleted, gone, never to be set foot into again. A new "World" is put in its place and back to the default position.
Again the opposite of "open world".
Unless by "Open world" you just mean large. Which I will agree with you.
I sincerely don't believe that, you have a history of insulting GW2 fans and through the pages of this thread, have done so again, all the while being proven incorrect and getting irritable in response. Maybe you should just not participate if you can't keep your cool.
I mean, not to put a damper on things.....
Rofl, insulting? Sorry I don't blindly praise the game like they do, even though I am buying it, i think its going to be fun.
I don't think its some super innovative or drasticaly re-inventing the MMO genre like so many people do. You can continue to revel in the hype, I will stay in reality.
A reality where instancing and zones are the same thing. A reality where it isn't fun to do World PvP from level 1. A reality where you never had to zone in DAoC. A reality where GW2 has no utility skills. A reality where banana bread bakes itself and turtles hold their teacups with their pinky out.
A zone is a persistant area within a persistant world that all players can travel in and out of whether that be seamless or a load screen at any time.
An instance is an area that is only created and used when a player(s) enters said area for use and no longer exists once the player(s) leave the instance.
A form of instance is also the duplication of a zone, you enter a normal persistant "zone" but because of some developers solution to overcrowding they create a new "instance" of said zone to allow an infinite number of players to use it at any given time, just in a different "instance".
Exactly, which WvW zones never fall under the defintion of.
Rofl, insulting? Sorry I don't blindly praise the game like they do, even though I am buying it, i think its going to be fun.
I don't think its some super innovative or drasticaly re-inventing the MMO genre like so many people do. You can continue to revel in the hype, I will stay in reality.
Who here is 'blindly praising' the game? This thread so far consists of 3, and only 3 things.
1) The OP posting some WvW videos of lowbies playing WvW.
2) You making an argument about it being instanced
3) People explaining what an instance actually is
There's actually almost no praise or criticism in this entire thread.
Furthermore, you may want to take another look at some of those 'blind fanboy' threads. For instance, there's quite a few threads with suggestions & criticisms for how to improve the game. You won't find that in a flame thread, but if you go to the correct locations there are pleanty of them.
A zone is a persistant area within a persistant world that all players can travel in and out of whether that be seamless or a load screen at any time.
An instance is an area that is only created and used when a player(s) enters said area for use and no longer exists once the player(s) leave the instance.
A form of instance is also the duplication of a zone, you enter a normal persistant "zone" but because of some developers solution to overcrowding they create a new "instance" of said zone to allow an infinite number of players to use it at any given time, just in a different "instance".
Exactly, which WvW zones never fall under the defintion of.
You realize that "Area" is deleted and ceases to exist as soon as the "match" is over? As soon as the players leave that map after the duraction of the "game" is over, that map or area is delete, its gone. You cannot go back to that "area" or "map". It is not a persistant area that is directly connected to the persistant world.
If it was a persistant "zone" or "area" , it would never END. It would never get deleted or cease to exist. It would never get replaced by a "new" zone or area that is back to default positions.
It's not open world because it is cut-off from the world, it is not permanently attached to said world. That WvWvW match you just lost, its over, it ended. That "World" you were fighting in no longer exist and is deleted, gone, never to be set foot into again. A new "World" is put in its place and back to the default position.
Again the opposite of "open world".
Unless by "Open world" you just mean large. Which I will agree with you.
You're right about the missuse of the word 'persistent', wrong about the term 'open world'. A lot of people assume 'open world' means no loading screens. It doesn't. It means no instances.
For further clarification on instances please refer to any number of previous posts in this thread about the actual definition of the word instance.
Originally posted by colddog04 Originally posted by InSpectre
Originally posted by Chrisbox
A tauren hunter that level would still be killing plainstriders in mulgore..
Would you actually want a level 4 Tauren PvP'ing with you? Then why would a level 4 ranger be so great? It would be bolstered to level 80 and the more the merrier in World PvP.
Why would you not want another person to help the cause? If this game was a faceroll zerg fest, Id agree with you. But this is supposed to be a game where player skill matters. So a level 4 noob getting thrown into end game WvW will be a detriment to your server. The elitist rage will blot out the sun, and you will zerg in the shade.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
A tauren hunter that level would still be killing plainstriders in mulgore..
Would you actually want a level 4 Tauren PvP'ing with you? Then why would a level 4 ranger be so great?
It would be bolstered to level 80 and the more the merrier in World PvP.
Why would you not want another person to help the cause?
If this game was a faceroll zerg fest, Id agree with you. But this is supposed to be a game where player skill matters. So a level 4 noob getting thrown into end game WvW will be a detriment to your server. The elitist rage will blot out the sun, and you will zerg in the shade.
I think in WvW, coordination matters. But the biggest army is going to have the advantage. It can be a coordinted zergfest. And in that case, numbers, not necessarily skill at playing are going to determine WvW outcomes.
I may have mis-used the instanced terminology wrong, sorry about that. But I'm sorry anyone who thinks WvWvW is more then just a huge version of Battle grounds or warzones or any other type of "match" style pvp is wrong, imo.
That doesn't take away from how fun they will be.
Too many people trying to over emblish things anet are doing, way too much hyperbole.
Originally posted by colddog04 Originally posted by DannyGlover
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by InSpectre
Originally posted by Chrisbox
A tauren hunter that level would still be killing plainstriders in mulgore..
Would you actually want a level 4 Tauren PvP'ing with you? Then why would a level 4 ranger be so great?
It would be bolstered to level 80 and the more the merrier in World PvP.
Why would you not want another person to help the cause?
If this game was a faceroll zerg fest, Id agree with you. But this is supposed to be a game where player skill matters. So a level 4 noob getting thrown into end game WvW will be a detriment to your server. The elitist rage will blot out the sun, and you will zerg in the shade.
I think in WvW, coordination matters. But the biggest army is going to have the advantage. It can be coordinted zergfest. And in that case, numbers, not necessarily skill at playing are going to determine WvW outcomes. Coordinated Zergfest is an oxymoron. I think you may be trying too hard here.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
The question I would ask, being that I know jack shiat about GW2,
are you able to enter the WvWvW areas at any time?
Can you leave at any time?
If you leave and come back 3 hours later will it still be the same?
If everyone leaves and you stay, then more people show up for a fight some 6 hrs later you join in?
A system that would allow the above would simply be a map that anyone from any world could join at any time for pvp. That hwo it works?
WvWvW matches last for 2 weeks. Once the two weeks is over, the match ends. someone is declared the winner and someone the loser. You are then assigned a new "map" and new enemies to fight in a brand new map.
Like I said its a large version of battlegrounds or similar pvp setups. You have more players, the area is larger and the match is longer. None of which take away from what it really is, it's just a tweak of the original implementation, one which caters to people who do not lke or want a break from the tradtiional pvp match(short duration, low amount of players and more enclosed area).
It is not a persistant pvp world/area that is continously fought over for the lifetime of the game, like DAOC.
I may have mis-used the instanced terminology wrong, sorry about that. But I'm sorry anyone who thinks WvWvW is more then just a huge version of Battle grounds or warzones or any other type of "match" style pvp is wrong, imo.
That doesn't take away from how fun they will be.
Too many people trying to over emblish things anet are doing, way too much hyperbole.
I may have mis-used the instanced terminology wrong, sorry about that. But I'm sorry anyone who thinks WvWvW is more then just a huge version of Battle grounds or warzones or any other type of "match" style pvp is wrong, imo.
That doesn't take away from how fun they will be.
Too many people trying to over emblish things anet are doing, way too much hyperbole.
And how will it be different?
Cos really, all the time I am reading about all the new revolutionary groundbreaking changes that this game is going to bring, yet I never manage to see anything actually new.
A tauren hunter that level would still be killing plainstriders in mulgore..
Would you actually want a level 4 Tauren PvP'ing with you? Then why would a level 4 ranger be so great?
It would be bolstered to level 80 and the more the merrier in World PvP.
Why would you not want another person to help the cause?
If this game was a faceroll zerg fest, Id agree with you. But this is supposed to be a game where player skill matters. So a level 4 noob getting thrown into end game WvW will be a detriment to your server. The elitist rage will blot out the sun, and you will zerg in the shade.
I think in WvW, coordination matters. But the biggest army is going to have the advantage. It can be coordinted zergfest. And in that case, numbers, not necessarily skill at playing are going to determine WvW outcomes.
Coordinated Zergfest is an oxymoron. I think you may be trying too hard here.
No its not. Perhaps you are trying too hard.
Does it not make sense to you that numbers will matter in a world PvP situation? Do you think that you can't tell 100 people to go to one keep while 200 go to another keep and the other side just gets zerged down? What about this doesn't make sense to you?
If this game was a faceroll zerg fest, Id agree with you. But this is supposed to be a game where player skill matters. So a level 4 noob getting thrown into end game WvW will be a detriment to your server. The elitist rage will blot out the sun, and you will zerg in the shade.
How does the bolstering prohibit player skill?
Being a low lvl doesn't make you a noob. It also certainly doesn't effect your skill lvl. Some people will start out this game being awesome, others will take time. Either way, there will definitely be a point in which people will roll an alt, and want to just pvp instead of PvEing on him.
Yes, he won't have as many tactics / skills as a full 80, but that doesn't mean he will be bad at using the ones he has. If he doesn't suck, he'll also be earning skills / exp as he kills, so he won't be a gimp for long. Would I want a full team of bolsters leading the charge? Definitely not, but I don't really see that happening all that often.
I may have mis-used the instanced terminology wrong, sorry about that. But I'm sorry anyone who thinks WvWvW is more then just a huge version of Battle grounds or warzones or any other type of "match" style pvp is wrong, imo.
That doesn't take away from how fun they will be.
Too many people trying to over emblish things anet are doing, way too much hyperbole.
Please define the term "Instance".
For me I consider instanced a zone/area/map that is created for a single purpose. When that purpose or objective is met, the map/area/zone is deleted and gone. You cannot go back to that place and change anything. There is a finality of it. There is a cap for the amount of players allowed inside.
It's not a persistant part of the game world(ie always there, never ends).
I may have mis-used the instanced terminology wrong, sorry about that. But I'm sorry anyone who thinks WvWvW is more then just a huge version of Battle grounds or warzones or any other type of "match" style pvp is wrong, imo.
That doesn't take away from how fun they will be.
Too many people trying to over emblish things anet are doing, way too much hyperbole.
Please define the term "Instance".
For me I consider instanced a zone/area/map that is created for a single purpose. When that purpose or objective is met, the map/area/zone is deleted and gone. You cannot go back to that place and change anything. There is a finality of it. There is a cap for the amount of players allowed inside.
It's not a persistant part of the game world(ie always there, never ends).
Maybe you need new definitions. Because it isn't part of the game world, it is its own game world inside a game. So maybe its really a mini game zone.
I may have mis-used the instanced terminology wrong, sorry about that. But I'm sorry anyone who thinks WvWvW is more then just a huge version of Battle grounds or warzones or any other type of "match" style pvp is wrong, imo.
That doesn't take away from how fun they will be.
Too many people trying to over emblish things anet are doing, way too much hyperbole.
I don't think anyone's saying it does.
Looking at it like a giant battlegrounds is certainly one way to look at it. I'd argue that is a bit of a stretch, in the same way that you could argue that the planets in SWTOR are just giant dungeons. Technically you could skew an argument in that direction, but I don't really think it paints a very accurate picture.
More to the point, it is a fairly unique feature, built off of what Mythic started (and they are the same guys working on WvW for the most part, which is why it resembles DAoC so much). However, unlike a battleground it provides benefits to your server, your guild, and is a more global effort than having a premade team of people farming for fame, renown, etc. There are similarities, sure, but it's definitely not the same.
Comments
Ahhh so your saying that there arent many long term goals to work for?
Btw, no other game has done the "level doesnt matter much" as well as age of conan, I was killing level 60 players at 22. Mind you, I don't like the game, but what they did with pvp levels vs pve levels was awesome.
I sincerely don't believe that, you have a history of insulting GW2 fans and through the pages of this thread, have done so again, all the while being proven incorrect and getting irritable in response. Maybe you should just not participate if you can't keep your cool.
I mean, not to put a damper on things.....
Rofl, insulting? Sorry I don't blindly praise the game like they do, even though I am buying it, i think its going to be fun.
I don't think its some super innovative or drasticaly re-inventing the MMO genre like so many people do. You can continue to revel in the hype, I will stay in reality.
Yeah, because that has anything to do with calling people blind and unobjective because they give you the proper definition of zones and instances. What was that about reality?
Just because I feel like butting in,
A zone is a persistant area within a persistant world that all players can travel in and out of whether that be seamless or a load screen at any time.
An instance is an area that is only created and used when a player(s) enters said area for use and no longer exists once the player(s) leave the instance.
A form of instance is also the duplication of a zone, you enter a normal persistant "zone" but because of some developers solution to overcrowding they create a new "instance" of said zone to allow an infinite number of players to use it at any given time, just in a different "instance".
How is it persistent? It ends, IT ENDS. It declares a permanent winner and a permanent loser and when it ends it RESETS. That is the direct opposite of persistent. Keep Deluding yourself.
It's not open world because it is cut-off from the world, it is not permanently attached to said world. That WvWvW match you just lost, its over, it ended. That "World" you were fighting in no longer exist and is deleted, gone, never to be set foot into again. A new "World" is put in its place and back to the default position.
Again the opposite of "open world".
Unless by "Open world" you just mean large. Which I will agree with you.
A reality where instancing and zones are the same thing. A reality where it isn't fun to do World PvP from level 1. A reality where you never had to zone in DAoC. A reality where GW2 has no utility skills. A reality where banana bread bakes itself and turtles hold their teacups with their pinky out.
Exactly, which WvW zones never fall under the defintion of.
Who here is 'blindly praising' the game? This thread so far consists of 3, and only 3 things.
1) The OP posting some WvW videos of lowbies playing WvW.
2) You making an argument about it being instanced
3) People explaining what an instance actually is
There's actually almost no praise or criticism in this entire thread.
Furthermore, you may want to take another look at some of those 'blind fanboy' threads. For instance, there's quite a few threads with suggestions & criticisms for how to improve the game. You won't find that in a flame thread, but if you go to the correct locations there are pleanty of them.
You realize that "Area" is deleted and ceases to exist as soon as the "match" is over? As soon as the players leave that map after the duraction of the "game" is over, that map or area is delete, its gone. You cannot go back to that "area" or "map". It is not a persistant area that is directly connected to the persistant world.
If it was a persistant "zone" or "area" , it would never END. It would never get deleted or cease to exist. It would never get replaced by a "new" zone or area that is back to default positions.
I don't like the game but a good example of an instance arena would be WoW's battlegrounds. Instanced.
You're right about the missuse of the word 'persistent', wrong about the term 'open world'. A lot of people assume 'open world' means no loading screens. It doesn't. It means no instances.
For further clarification on instances please refer to any number of previous posts in this thread about the actual definition of the word instance.
It would be bolstered to level 80 and the more the merrier in World PvP.
Why would you not want another person to help the cause?
If this game was a faceroll zerg fest, Id agree with you. But this is supposed to be a game where player skill matters. So a level 4 noob getting thrown into end game WvW will be a detriment to your server. The elitist rage will blot out the sun, and you will zerg in the shade.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
The question I would ask, being that I know jack shiat about GW2,
are you able to enter the WvWvW areas at any time?
Can you leave at any time?
If you leave and come back 3 hours later will it still be the same?
If everyone leaves and you stay, then more people show up for a fight some 6 hrs later you join in?
A system that would allow the above would simply be a map that anyone from any world could join at any time for pvp. That hwo it works?
I think in WvW, coordination matters. But the biggest army is going to have the advantage. It can be a coordinted zergfest. And in that case, numbers, not necessarily skill at playing are going to determine WvW outcomes.
I may have mis-used the instanced terminology wrong, sorry about that. But I'm sorry anyone who thinks WvWvW is more then just a huge version of Battle grounds or warzones or any other type of "match" style pvp is wrong, imo.
That doesn't take away from how fun they will be.
Too many people trying to over emblish things anet are doing, way too much hyperbole.
Would you actually want a level 4 Tauren PvP'ing with you? Then why would a level 4 ranger be so great?
It would be bolstered to level 80 and the more the merrier in World PvP.
Why would you not want another person to help the cause?
If this game was a faceroll zerg fest, Id agree with you. But this is supposed to be a game where player skill matters. So a level 4 noob getting thrown into end game WvW will be a detriment to your server. The elitist rage will blot out the sun, and you will zerg in the shade.
I think in WvW, coordination matters. But the biggest army is going to have the advantage. It can be coordinted zergfest. And in that case, numbers, not necessarily skill at playing are going to determine WvW outcomes.
Coordinated Zergfest is an oxymoron. I think you may be trying too hard here.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
WvWvW matches last for 2 weeks. Once the two weeks is over, the match ends. someone is declared the winner and someone the loser. You are then assigned a new "map" and new enemies to fight in a brand new map.
Like I said its a large version of battlegrounds or similar pvp setups. You have more players, the area is larger and the match is longer. None of which take away from what it really is, it's just a tweak of the original implementation, one which caters to people who do not lke or want a break from the tradtiional pvp match(short duration, low amount of players and more enclosed area).
It is not a persistant pvp world/area that is continously fought over for the lifetime of the game, like DAOC.
Please define the term "Instance".
And how will it be different?
Cos really, all the time I am reading about all the new revolutionary groundbreaking changes that this game is going to bring, yet I never manage to see anything actually new.
No its not. Perhaps you are trying too hard.
Does it not make sense to you that numbers will matter in a world PvP situation? Do you think that you can't tell 100 people to go to one keep while 200 go to another keep and the other side just gets zerged down? What about this doesn't make sense to you?
How does the bolstering prohibit player skill?
Being a low lvl doesn't make you a noob. It also certainly doesn't effect your skill lvl. Some people will start out this game being awesome, others will take time. Either way, there will definitely be a point in which people will roll an alt, and want to just pvp instead of PvEing on him.
Yes, he won't have as many tactics / skills as a full 80, but that doesn't mean he will be bad at using the ones he has. If he doesn't suck, he'll also be earning skills / exp as he kills, so he won't be a gimp for long. Would I want a full team of bolsters leading the charge? Definitely not, but I don't really see that happening all that often.
For me I consider instanced a zone/area/map that is created for a single purpose. When that purpose or objective is met, the map/area/zone is deleted and gone. You cannot go back to that place and change anything. There is a finality of it. There is a cap for the amount of players allowed inside.
It's not a persistant part of the game world(ie always there, never ends).
Maybe you need new definitions. Because it isn't part of the game world, it is its own game world inside a game. So maybe its really a mini game zone.
I don't think anyone's saying it does.
Looking at it like a giant battlegrounds is certainly one way to look at it. I'd argue that is a bit of a stretch, in the same way that you could argue that the planets in SWTOR are just giant dungeons. Technically you could skew an argument in that direction, but I don't really think it paints a very accurate picture.
More to the point, it is a fairly unique feature, built off of what Mythic started (and they are the same guys working on WvW for the most part, which is why it resembles DAoC so much). However, unlike a battleground it provides benefits to your server, your guild, and is a more global effort than having a premade team of people farming for fame, renown, etc. There are similarities, sure, but it's definitely not the same.