Did anyone else feel that the Dev from SWOTR and G2 really don't like eachother? Im sure there is a professional respect but something tells me from the body language and rebuttals from ArenaNet to Bioware is that there really not a fan of one another. Also Love the G2 footage and must say I love hearing the reasons why games “should and shouldn't be F2P” Kinda wish Blizz was there but there to good to meet with the “common folks” Heck there not even having Blizzcon! Lol Anyways great vid! Love the ending where Arenanet gives out Beta keys "WISH I WAS THERE" and love the carrot they dangled out there saying in a "few" more weeks! I hope so can't wait for G2!
P.S My post is not spam stop asking me for CAPCHA!
Is it because I am middle aged that I cringe so much watching the introductions to the Pax panel and hearing all the screaming and whooping while these guys take their seats?
IMO these guys are responsible for the shocking state of the MMO gaming industry, they need a slap not a clap.
I didn't have to listen to the whole thing to realize that these devs except for maybe 2 of them are freaking stuck in the themepark hand holding mode. The first question on innovation and how that first dude answered was what makes me sick of these games and how the so called future is being handled. In his mind, fun gameplay trumps community and that's the reason why these new games feel like SPRPG with coop features instead of true mmorpg's, that have fun combat but also indepth tools for out of combat content that builds a strong community with player interdependencies.
Um....you realize the person you are talking about is Matt Higby and he's the creative director for Planetside 2. It's the farthest thing from a "SPRPG with coop features" out of all the games on the panel. It is not a themepark in the slightest. It's not even an RPG actually, it's an FPS.
People don't need a whole lot of out of combat content in Planetside 2. It's an FPS. It's based around content.
I don't think he was saying that gameplay trumps community. I think what he's saying is that most games focus on community and completely ignore combat/gameplay. He's saying that companies are starting to create games where gameplay is more important now. Look at Tera, GW 2, Defiance, and Planetside 2. All of those games have unique combat mechanics, but I think it would be foolish to say that there are no community tools involved.
I didn't have to listen to the whole thing to realize that these devs except for maybe 2 of them are freaking stuck in the themepark hand holding mode. The first question on innovation and how that first dude answered was what makes me sick of these games and how the so called future is being handled. In his mind, fun gameplay trumps community and that's the reason why these new games feel like SPRPG with coop features instead of true mmorpg's, that have fun combat but also indepth tools for out of combat content that builds a strong community with player interdependencies.
Exactly. I didnt even watch the video because I thought to myself -"Why would I want to listen to a bunch of guys who have made these Linear, Shallow, Craptastic Themeparks talk about the future of MORE Linear, Shallow, Craptastic Themeparks?"
I just wasnt going to waste my time.
Id rather see a panel of Devs sit in front of something like a Gamers version of a Senate Hearing and answer as to WHY they keep making these lame, shallow, boring, linear, hand-holding, facerolling, WoW Clones.
So out of the games on the panel, you're saying Planetside 2, TSW, GW 2, Tera, and Defiance are WoW clones?
Seemed to me they were constantly defending the themepark. Granted most of them took the safe road and chose that direction, but they all flopped on the innovation question because I see very little innovation in their products and most of them just side stepped the question with nonsense comments. What I got from most of them was that innovation was only good within a certain set of parameters.
One thing I noticed, many of them harken back to their Everquest roots, a game I never particularly cared for. Probably why I disagree with many of them.
Somehow I get the feeling Curt wants to put more challenge back into the genre, I could go for that even in an Everquest format I suppose. I wanted to ask the Bioware guy how soon were they going to automate gameplay?
When I hear someone say that the sandbox genre is for niche games it makes me think of a very closed mindset.
Good panel though, you guys did a bangup job getting that together. Good to get a feel for what these guys are thinking.
Well I disagree, bioware was the first to make an MMO with full personal story/voice overs. Whether you call it innovative or not they still were. Also, I too thought like that about their views on sandbox games, but then i thought to myself...there are no real sandbox games that apply the "easy to learn hard to master" theory, so I see where they're coming from with that.
Alright, Planetside fanboy here for full disclosure and all, but did anyone catch the slight jab the GW 2 guy made at Higby during the why should you play our game question?
Higby said something along the lines of "you can play alongside thousands of other people...blah blah blah"
The GW 2 guy simply said "we are making a game you can play WITH other people not just alongside them" and that was basically his while pitch.
I imagine he never played Planetside. Maybe I'm just reading into that too much, but it sounded kind of stupid. In my opinion there is not a more group/teamwork oriented game than Planetside.
Sounds like you're reading too much into that. Keep inmind that the GW2 guy was pretty exhausted for that panel. He kept stumbling through his answers, spent most of the time looking at his lap, and even mentioned @ the end that he had just gotten off an overnight flight to be there. You can even see him shaking hands with a few of them members as they all get up to leave. Something none of the other developers seemed to be doing.
I have to say, it was a very insightful panel, but overall it didn't invoke a lot of confidence for me in the industry 'leaders'. There was a couple that seemed to have the right idea (GW2, and Planetside 2). Curt Schilling had some nice buzz to add, but he doesn't really have anything to back it up yet. He seemed to be self-promoting a little too much and I wasn't really feeling his reply to the 'comparing games to WoW' comment. I do enjoy kingdoms of amalur, though.
I also really didn't like the crowd-plant they threw in there to plug DEFIANCE, Trion's new game. Really kind of cheapened the whole event a bit for me, tbh. I'd rather have had a real question, instead of an obvious marketting gimmick.
Ok, i'm probably just being too defensive, but yeah that would explain a lot. He seemed kind of pissed off the whole time and annoyed.
Is it because I am middle aged that I cringe so much watching the introductions to the Pax panel and hearing all the screaming and whooping while these guys take their seats?
IMO these guys are responsible for the shocking state of the MMO gaming industry, they need a slap not a clap.
LoL, Im in the same boat. I was at PAX east and got to talk with the token Devs for Tera, Firefall, Neverwinter and Secrret World.
They all made really nice looking games but sadly not a single one supported any of the original MMO defining elements. ( Exploring, Discovery, Learning, Risk vs Reward, etc....)
And if you like PvP you might as well just give up , not a single Dev I spoke with likes the idea of any type of risk, loss , downtime or negative outcome during PvP. They want PvP to be about rushing around and lots of insta respawning, at the end one team gets more cookies than the other and they all get Gold Stars for being the bestest and bravest little MMO players around
I was talking with the Tera DEV and mentioned the rumor on the Officail TERA forums about a possible "hardcore" PvP server. He went on to explain that it is being seriously discussed and I asked about details and I threw out some standard elements... Item loss, Item Loot, Money loss, XP loss, death penalty... The DEV's face went sour ,like I farted... He shook his head and nicely said.. " I don't think we would ever add anything like that"...
Good watch. The only thing I was extreemly disapointed about was how they all either dodged or talked down to a challenging MMO and how it couldnt be a AAA title. There was alot of contradiction to be had. For example Curt saying "the players drive what we make" and then when asked about hard titles he says "Players dont know what they really want.". Or they all want to keep with thier design choices regardless of what others are doing and then turn around and say "well yea I WANT a game like that to but someone else can take the risk of doing it".
Again I really enjoyed watching the video but there was so much backtracking and contradictions the only big thing I got out of it was if you want a hardcore game your screwed.
I'm kinda disappointed none of them mentioned SWG when it came to discussing communites within MMO's. I believe early SWG had the most in-depth, interactive community I've ever got to be a part of.
It's sad to see none of the top line MMO's since 2005 or so have had any decency to try and have a game that encourages interaction, i.e., guild cities, player housing, cantinas, guilds vs guilds, etc. It's been more focused on keeping individuals content.
Other than that, I thought it was a solid discussion on core ideas for the MMORPG gaming industry.
Informative and amusing, liked it, but to be a designer or involved in MMO production there are clearly some buzz words you need to say as often as possible:
Online space.
Empower players.
MMO space.
All about the fun.
Non customer facing.
Our space.
Game is fun.
Heck of a lot of fun spaces out there in MMO land.
My favourite quote which summed up the last few years, MMO’s wanted to be “everything to everyone and were nothing to anyone.” Trouble is that’s where we still are at, and I only see more nothing to anyone on the horizon.
Comments
Interesting panel. I like how passionate they are about the MMO genre. I'm also now starting to get interested in the upcoming MMOFPS games.
The ghuy asking the question at 21:20 sounds like he's high on pot or horribly drunk or something. ^^
Did anyone else feel that the Dev from SWOTR and G2 really don't like eachother? Im sure there is a professional respect but something tells me from the body language and rebuttals from ArenaNet to Bioware is that there really not a fan of one another. Also Love the G2 footage and must say I love hearing the reasons why games “should and shouldn't be F2P” Kinda wish Blizz was there but there to good to meet with the “common folks” Heck there not even having Blizzcon! Lol Anyways great vid! Love the ending where Arenanet gives out Beta keys "WISH I WAS THERE" and love the carrot they dangled out there saying in a "few" more weeks! I hope so can't wait for G2!
P.S My post is not spam stop asking me for CAPCHA!
Is it because I am middle aged that I cringe so much watching the introductions to the Pax panel and hearing all the screaming and whooping while these guys take their seats?
IMO these guys are responsible for the shocking state of the MMO gaming industry, they need a slap not a clap.
Um....you realize the person you are talking about is Matt Higby and he's the creative director for Planetside 2. It's the farthest thing from a "SPRPG with coop features" out of all the games on the panel. It is not a themepark in the slightest. It's not even an RPG actually, it's an FPS.
People don't need a whole lot of out of combat content in Planetside 2. It's an FPS. It's based around content.
I don't think he was saying that gameplay trumps community. I think what he's saying is that most games focus on community and completely ignore combat/gameplay. He's saying that companies are starting to create games where gameplay is more important now. Look at Tera, GW 2, Defiance, and Planetside 2. All of those games have unique combat mechanics, but I think it would be foolish to say that there are no community tools involved.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
So out of the games on the panel, you're saying Planetside 2, TSW, GW 2, Tera, and Defiance are WoW clones?
I doubt that very much.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
Well I disagree, bioware was the first to make an MMO with full personal story/voice overs. Whether you call it innovative or not they still were. Also, I too thought like that about their views on sandbox games, but then i thought to myself...there are no real sandbox games that apply the "easy to learn hard to master" theory, so I see where they're coming from with that.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
Ok, i'm probably just being too defensive, but yeah that would explain a lot. He seemed kind of pissed off the whole time and annoyed.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
LoL, Im in the same boat. I was at PAX east and got to talk with the token Devs for Tera, Firefall, Neverwinter and Secrret World.
They all made really nice looking games but sadly not a single one supported any of the original MMO defining elements. ( Exploring, Discovery, Learning, Risk vs Reward, etc....)
And if you like PvP you might as well just give up , not a single Dev I spoke with likes the idea of any type of risk, loss , downtime or negative outcome during PvP. They want PvP to be about rushing around and lots of insta respawning, at the end one team gets more cookies than the other and they all get Gold Stars for being the bestest and bravest little MMO players around
I was talking with the Tera DEV and mentioned the rumor on the Officail TERA forums about a possible "hardcore" PvP server. He went on to explain that it is being seriously discussed and I asked about details and I threw out some standard elements... Item loss, Item Loot, Money loss, XP loss, death penalty... The DEV's face went sour ,like I farted... He shook his head and nicely said.. " I don't think we would ever add anything like that"...
Nice Video,
Good panel!
"Playing with other players as opposed to playing amongst other players" - me
I got a much better understanding of some of the people driving the industry of the MMORPG, and appreciate this.
Cheers!
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
Good watch. The only thing I was extreemly disapointed about was how they all either dodged or talked down to a challenging MMO and how it couldnt be a AAA title. There was alot of contradiction to be had. For example Curt saying "the players drive what we make" and then when asked about hard titles he says "Players dont know what they really want.". Or they all want to keep with thier design choices regardless of what others are doing and then turn around and say "well yea I WANT a game like that to but someone else can take the risk of doing it".
Again I really enjoyed watching the video but there was so much backtracking and contradictions the only big thing I got out of it was if you want a hardcore game your screwed.
huh???
It was the guy from bioware who shake hand with him first...its ok been a fanboy but cmon lol
"I don't think there's anyone here saying, 'Let's not try to innvoate.' That's kind of crazy."
Aside from Higby and the dude from Anet who in that panel gives two shits about innovation?
I'm kinda disappointed none of them mentioned SWG when it came to discussing communites within MMO's. I believe early SWG had the most in-depth, interactive community I've ever got to be a part of.
It's sad to see none of the top line MMO's since 2005 or so have had any decency to try and have a game that encourages interaction, i.e., guild cities, player housing, cantinas, guilds vs guilds, etc. It's been more focused on keeping individuals content.
Other than that, I thought it was a solid discussion on core ideas for the MMORPG gaming industry.
Informative and amusing, liked it, but to be a designer or involved in MMO production there are clearly some buzz words you need to say as often as possible:
Online space.
Empower players.
MMO space.
All about the fun.
Non customer facing.
Our space.
Game is fun.
Heck of a lot of fun spaces out there in MMO land.
My favourite quote which summed up the last few years, MMO’s wanted to be “everything to everyone and were nothing to anyone.” Trouble is that’s where we still are at, and I only see more nothing to anyone on the horizon.
Loved this! can't wait for Planetside 2 and Guild Wars 2.
"Alot of our game's are only partly ours"...if you read standard MMO T&C's...they state nothing belongs to the players.