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Exactly how are chests that can only be unlocked via buying keys in the Cash shop NOT Pay 2 win?

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  • DanitaKusorDanitaKusor Member UncommonPosts: 556

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    Originally posted by DanitaKusor


    Originally posted by gainesvilleg



    Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->RvRvR boosts

    Very clear pay2win in RvRvR

    What RvRvR boosts?

    What concrete information do you have that these even exist? 

    This was already answered in this thread...

    Really I must be blind then...

    Perhaps you would care to enlighten us.

    What exactly are the RvRvR boosts that players can get by converting cash in influence?

    The Enlightened take things Lightly

  • gainesvilleggainesvilleg Member CommonPosts: 1,053

    Originally posted by DanitaKusor

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg


    Originally posted by DanitaKusor


    Originally posted by gainesvilleg



    Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->RvRvR boosts

    Very clear pay2win in RvRvR

    What RvRvR boosts?

    What concrete information do you have that these even exist? 

    This was already answered in this thread...

    Really I must be blind then...

    Perhaps you would care to enlighten us.

    What exactly are the RvRvR boosts that players can get by converting cash in influence?

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Influence 

     

    GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
    1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
    2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  • Eir_SEir_S Member UncommonPosts: 4,440

    Originally posted by Zylaxx

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    /snip

    What part of not giving a statistical advantage do you not understand? 

    The part where "ANet is the devil" is not mentioned.  I've already explained that these so-called advantages are negligible.  People only assume that if they pass, ANet will dump huge advantages in the cash shop, even though there's nothing to support that line of thinking.

  • garretthgarretth Member UncommonPosts: 343

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    Originally posted by Deolus


    Originally posted by gainesvilleg


    Originally posted by gotha


    Originally posted by dubyahite

    I don't think it's P2W but games that do this annoy the piss out of me.

    Right now making a fuss about stuff sold in the cash shop is a good thing.  Player responce kept eve from butchering their game with  cash shop items, we can do the same here.

    EXACTLY, the Anet aplogists are doing nothing and think they are noble for it.  Standing around while an appalling cash shop ruins a potentially good MMO.  Change is brought about by rebellion and dissent, not looking the other way and blind fanaticism...

    Ah, so I had you all wrong. You actually LOVE GW2 but are worried that the cash shop will spoil your enjoyment of it...

    Well take it from me, you have nothing to worry about, send Anet your money on April 10th :)

     

    If you followed my posts for the last several months you would know I was once on the bandwagon, at least partially.  This cash shop, as it currently stands, is a travesty to gaming in my opinion.

    And yes, the time to argue for a decent game is BEFORE it is released, not blindly assume the accountants have not taken over.  Which unfortunately they clearly have.



    I disagree with you. 

    I believe that Anet will build a decent game.  GW had a cash shop and Anet handled it with aplomb. 

    Once we have all the facts, then we can argue the merits of the CS with some integrity, honesty and sincerity.  

    Your arguements are winey, immature and illogical.

    Save up your angst until after the game is available.   THEN present your case.

  • DeolusDeolus Member UncommonPosts: 392

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    Originally posted by Deolus


    Originally posted by gainesvilleg


    Originally posted by gotha


    Originally posted by dubyahite

    I don't think it's P2W but games that do this annoy the piss out of me.

    Right now making a fuss about stuff sold in the cash shop is a good thing.  Player responce kept eve from butchering their game with  cash shop items, we can do the same here.

    EXACTLY, the Anet aplogists are doing nothing and think they are noble for it.  Standing around while an appalling cash shop ruins a potentially good MMO.  Change is brought about by rebellion and dissent, not looking the other way and blind fanaticism...

    Ah, so I had you all wrong. You actually LOVE GW2 but are worried that the cash shop will spoil your enjoyment of it...

    Well take it from me, you have nothing to worry about, send Anet your money on April 10th :)

     

    If you followed my posts for the last several months you would know I was once on the bandwagon, at least partially.  This cash shop, as it currently stands, is a travesty to gaming in my opinion.

    And yes, the time to argue for a decent game is BEFORE it is released, not blindly assume the accountants have not taken over.  Which unfortunately they clearly have.



    I'm sure both Anet and NCSoft agree that success for this game depends on box/digital sales and not what is offered in th CS. I'm sure they would not want to jeopardize that.

     

  • gainesvilleggainesvilleg Member CommonPosts: 1,053

    Originally posted by Eir_S

    Originally posted by Zylaxx


    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    /snip

    What part of not giving a statistical advantage do you not understand? 

    The part where "ANet is the devil" is not mentioned.  I've already explained that these so-called advantages are negligible.  People only assume that if they pass, ANet will dump huge advantages in the cash shop, even though there's nothing to support that line of thinking.

    Finally you have moved off of your hard and fast postition of NO advantages to NEGLIGIBLE advantages.  A journey of a thousand miles starts with but a step...

    GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
    1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
    2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  • RizelStarRizelStar Member UncommonPosts: 2,773

    Originally posted by Zylaxx

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    Originally posted by Deolus

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    Originally posted by gotha

    Originally posted by dubyahite

    I don't think it's P2W but games that do this annoy the piss out of me.

    Right now making a fuss about stuff sold in the cash shop is a good thing.  Player responce kept eve from butchering their game with  cash shop items, we can do the same here.

    EXACTLY, the Anet aplogists are doing nothing and think they are noble for it.  Standing around while an appalling cash shop ruins a potentially good MMO.  Change is brought about by rebellion and dissent, not looking the other way and blind fanaticism...

    Ah, so I had you all wrong. You actually LOVE GW2 but are worried that the cash shop will spoil your enjoyment of it...

    Well take it from me, you have nothing to worry about, send Anet your money on April 10th :)

     

    If you followed my posts for the last several months you would know I was once on the bandwagon, at least partially.  This cash shop, as it currently stands, is a travesty to gaming in my opinion.

    And yes, the time to argue for a decent game is BEFORE it is released, not blindly assume the accountants have not taken over.  Which unfortunately they clearly have.

    What part of not giving a statistical advantage do you not understand? 

    I'm telling he should know that by now, it's that bait a switch. Ish like that does make me press the ignore button.

    It's been stress to [death] I think we might have kille death itself by now with the word Not p2w and p2 get an advantage over those who don't spend cash.

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • Eir_SEir_S Member UncommonPosts: 4,440

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    Originally posted by Eir_S


    Originally posted by Zylaxx


    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    /snip

    What part of not giving a statistical advantage do you not understand? 

    The part where "ANet is the devil" is not mentioned.  I've already explained that these so-called advantages are negligible.  People only assume that if they pass, ANet will dump huge advantages in the cash shop, even though there's nothing to support that line of thinking.

    Finally you have moved off of your hard and fast postition of NO advantages to NEGLIGIBLE advantages.  A journey of a thousand miles starts with but a step...

    And if you think it's worth starting dozens of threads over, then you've only gone backwards.

  • gainesvilleggainesvilleg Member CommonPosts: 1,053

    Originally posted by Eir_S

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg


    Originally posted by Eir_S


    Originally posted by Zylaxx


    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    /snip

    What part of not giving a statistical advantage do you not understand? 

    The part where "ANet is the devil" is not mentioned.  I've already explained that these so-called advantages are negligible.  People only assume that if they pass, ANet will dump huge advantages in the cash shop, even though there's nothing to support that line of thinking.

    Finally you have moved off of your hard and fast postition of NO advantages to NEGLIGIBLE advantages.  A journey of a thousand miles starts with but a step...

    And if you think it's worth starting dozens of threads over, then you've only gone backwards.

    Well, if you are not going to draw the line at NO advantage, then where do you draw the line?  Negligible, miniscule, small, tiny, medium, moderate, etc.???

    Give Anet an inch and they will take a yard, it is a cold hard economic fact...

    And I have not started a SINGLE thread over it.  I just join in the debate.

    GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
    1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
    2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  • Eir_SEir_S Member UncommonPosts: 4,440

    Actually, anyone can see that the link you posted provides advantages and those advantages can still be purchased through in-game currency... so I'm wondering how it feels to never get anywhere in all your months of arguing.

  • sanshi44sanshi44 Member UncommonPosts: 1,187

    Originally posted by terrant

    Originally posted by BilboDoggins

    I would like to see how anyone can logically come to the conclusion that chests which can only be unlocked by buying keys from the cash shop isnt Pay 2 win.

     

    Cuz i dont think anyone can and if they do claim its not Pay 2 win I think they are being willfully ignorant and/or intellectually dishonest.

     

    So lets hear it. Defend this obvious pay 2 win scam.

    I shan't. I'll say what I've been saying from the start.

     

    Show me what's in the boxes. Show me the percentile chances of getting x item to be the thing you loot from them. Show me whether that item can be earned in game, and the chances of difficulty to do it.

     

    ALL of those factors make a big difference. If the boxes are a 100% chance of dropping something  more powerful than anyone else can ever get to the point where no one else can compete with the owner, you are right. If it's totally random and I mighta wasted x dollars on some crappy uncommon loot I coulda got for 2 seconds running around in the world...then who cares? Yes they're going to make it drop some decent loot as an incentive, but HOW decent, and HOW likely are you to get something you specifically as a -insert class here- can use?

     

    Also, are the keys obtainable in game as well?

    I read somewhere you can unlock the chests without buying from cash shop aswell, it was somthing on the line of spwning somone that last 5 minutes which can opens chest (and some other things) So you can save up all youre chests and summon the thing and get him to open them all for you.

  • MagnetiaMagnetia Member UncommonPosts: 1,015

    It's not pay to win evil, it's gambling evil. 

    Here's a video explaining the evil. 

    http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/the-skinner-box

    I just choose not to gamble XD

    Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?

  • gainesvilleggainesvilleg Member CommonPosts: 1,053

    Originally posted by Eir_S

    Actually, anyone can see that the link you posted provides advantages and those advantages can still be purchased through in-game currency... so I'm wondering how it feels to never get anywhere in all your months of arguing.

    You do realize that many of the Korean MMO grinders work the exact same way.  That line of argument doesn't work, unless we want to redefine the Korean grinder as an esport LOL.

    GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
    1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
    2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  • SiveriaSiveria Member UncommonPosts: 1,416

    You should know by now that any game with a cash shop ends up being pay 2 win later on. The keys to open chests is just the first step in a process, see this happen all the time. They have to put some stuff in the cash shop that has a pay 2 win aspect to it, mostly for the pvptards that will spend 100 bucks just to do 1% more damage than someone else, if you don't believe me look at pvp based f2p with cash shop titles, the stuff that sells the most is anything that gives advantages. But to be honest your prob making a bigger deal of it than you need to, fallen earth for example has these kinds of chests, and the chests really contain nothing you can't get in the game normally, it just has it in one easy to open package, its essentally a time saver, the best one is the red titanium one in fallen earth and it has semi-hard to come by crafting mats usually, but doesn't really offer much of an advantage in the long run.

    But as I have said more than once in these forums, GW2 will end up turning into a pay2win title, because thats where the money is if your going to run the game via a cash shop, its just how it is so get used to it. If they allow the cash shop items to be sold for ingame funds, then that really nullifys any advantage they have, since you can just farm gold or whatever for it.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  • Arathir86Arathir86 Member UncommonPosts: 442

    For the Record, WvW is inheritantly imbalanced, because you may only have 20 people defending a keep, but 100 assaulting it, and that can be due to a number of factors such as peak time, server population, the amount of skirmishing going on elsewhere, etc, etc...

     

    Also, 1 server isnt going to have boosts and the other 2 wont. There will be a mix of people, and the boosts are so negligible they wont even be noticeable in the grand scheme of things.

     

    WvW is imbalanced. Get over it.

     

    If you want to have a balanced PvP experience, there are Scenarios which you can Hot Join instantly.

    "The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

  • gainesvilleggainesvilleg Member CommonPosts: 1,053

    Originally posted by Kreedz

    For the Record, WvW is inheritantly unballanced, because you may only have 20 people defending a keep, but 100 assaulting it, and that can be due to a number of factors such as peak time, server population, the amount of skirmishing going on elsewhere, etc, etc...

     

    Also, 1 server isnt going to have boosts and the other 2 wont. There will be a mix of people, and the boosts are so negligible they wont even be noticeable in the grand scheme of things.

     

    WvW is inballanced. Get over it.

     

    If you want to have a balanced PvP experience, there are Scenarios which you can Hot Join instantly.

    Yeah, thats what the apologists say in defense of this.  Either:

    1) Bring more people

    2) Avoid that keep

    3) Well, it only allows you to survive 2 or 3 more hits...

     

    None of the above is acceptable in a PVP game.  NOBODY should be able to buy even the smallest of advantages.

    GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
    1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
    2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  • UOvetUOvet Member Posts: 514

    Originally posted by Siveria

    You should know by now that any game with a cash shop ends up being pay 2 win later on. The keys to open chests is just the first step in a process, see this happen all the time. They have to put some stuff in the cash shop that has a pay 2 win aspect to it, mostly for the pvptards that will spend 100 bucks just to do 1% more damage than someone else, if you don't believe me look at pvp based f2p with cash shop titles, the stuff that sells the most is anything that gives advantages. But to be honest your prob making a bigger deal of it than you need to, fallen earth for example has these kinds of chests, and the chests really contain nothing you can't get in the game normally, it just has it in one easy to open package, its essentally a time saver, the best one is the red titanium one in fallen earth and it has semi-hard to come by crafting mats usually, but doesn't really offer much of an advantage in the long run.

    But as I have said more than once in these forums, GW2 will end up turning into a pay2win title, because thats where the money is if your going to run the game via a cash shop, its just how it is so get used to it. If they allow the cash shop items to be sold for ingame funds, then that really nullifys any advantage they have, since you can just farm gold or whatever for it.

    Know all that you do you should've played the Mega Million /sarcasm.

     

    Out of curiousity, has Fallen Earth gone P2W? You said they have the same things as these chests yet don't offer any true advantage, or rather that you can't obtain in-game which isn't in any form P2W. Most games you see that are P2W are your standard F2P games that you just download. So..

  • dontadowdontadow Member UncommonPosts: 1,005

    Originally posted by Siveria

    You should know by now that any game with a cash shop ends up being pay 2 win later on. The keys to open chests is just the first step in a process, see this happen all the time. They have to put some stuff in the cash shop that has a pay 2 win aspect to it, mostly for the pvptards that will spend 100 bucks just to do 1% more damage than someone else, if you don't believe me look at pvp based f2p with cash shop titles, the stuff that sells the most is anything that gives advantages. But to be honest your prob making a bigger deal of it than you need to, fallen earth for example has these kinds of chests, and the chests really contain nothing you can't get in the game normally, it just has it in one easy to open package, its essentally a time saver, the best one is the red titanium one in fallen earth and it has semi-hard to come by crafting mats usually, but doesn't really offer much of an advantage in the long run.

    But as I have said more than once in these forums, GW2 will end up turning into a pay2win title, because thats where the money is if your going to run the game via a cash shop, its just how it is so get used to it. If they allow the cash shop items to be sold for ingame funds, then that really nullifys any advantage they have, since you can just farm gold or whatever for it.

    LOTR and DDO have both satayed out of the pay to win method as defined in my earlier post.   Pay to win is usually a model for a failing game.  

    B

  • UOvetUOvet Member Posts: 514

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    Originally posted by Kreedz

    For the Record, WvW is inheritantly unballanced, because you may only have 20 people defending a keep, but 100 assaulting it, and that can be due to a number of factors such as peak time, server population, the amount of skirmishing going on elsewhere, etc, etc...

     

    Also, 1 server isnt going to have boosts and the other 2 wont. There will be a mix of people, and the boosts are so negligible they wont even be noticeable in the grand scheme of things.

     

    WvW is inballanced. Get over it.

     

    If you want to have a balanced PvP experience, there are Scenarios which you can Hot Join instantly.

    Yeah, thats what the apologists say in defense of this.  Either:

    1) Bring more people

    2) Avoid that keep

    3) Well, it only allows you to survive 2 or 3 more hits...

     

    None of the above is acceptable in a PVP game.  NOBODY should be able to buy even the smallest of advantages.

    And you don't here so get over it. More influence? Stop them from getting Supply and it won't really matter.

  • DanitaKusorDanitaKusor Member UncommonPosts: 556

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Influence 

    Most interesting.

    So based on the estimated conversion rates of;

    2000 gems = $25

    100 gems = 23 silver

    100 influence = 1 gold

    Then for $10.87 I could buy my guild a buff of +400 life for 12 hours in the vicinity of a keep we claim in a WvW zone.

    Of course to unlock this then I would need to first spend $353.26 to raise the art of war to level 3 and claim a keep.

    The Enlightened take things Lightly

  • Arathir86Arathir86 Member UncommonPosts: 442

    I just told you it is inherently imbalanced.

     

    Read my post again.

     

    You have the option of playing the smaller PvP Scenarios for your dose of balanced PvP.

    "The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

  • gainesvilleggainesvilleg Member CommonPosts: 1,053

    Originally posted by UOvet

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg


    Originally posted by Kreedz

    For the Record, WvW is inheritantly unballanced, because you may only have 20 people defending a keep, but 100 assaulting it, and that can be due to a number of factors such as peak time, server population, the amount of skirmishing going on elsewhere, etc, etc...

     

    Also, 1 server isnt going to have boosts and the other 2 wont. There will be a mix of people, and the boosts are so negligible they wont even be noticeable in the grand scheme of things.

     

    WvW is inballanced. Get over it.

     

    If you want to have a balanced PvP experience, there are Scenarios which you can Hot Join instantly.

    Yeah, thats what the apologists say in defense of this.  Either:

    1) Bring more people

    2) Avoid that keep

    3) Well, it only allows you to survive 2 or 3 more hits...

     

    None of the above is acceptable in a PVP game.  NOBODY should be able to buy even the smallest of advantages.

    And you don't here so get over it. More influence? Stop them from getting Supply and it won't really matter.

    So does influence provide any advantage in RvRvR or not?  I know the answer, why won't you admit it?  Call it "small" or "negligible" or whatever makes you feel better, but if you say influence provides NO advantage I will know what you are.  This is public knowledge and on the GW2 wiki...

    GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
    1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
    2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  • dontadowdontadow Member UncommonPosts: 1,005

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    Originally posted by Kreedz

    For the Record, WvW is inheritantly unballanced, because you may only have 20 people defending a keep, but 100 assaulting it, and that can be due to a number of factors such as peak time, server population, the amount of skirmishing going on elsewhere, etc, etc...

     

    Also, 1 server isnt going to have boosts and the other 2 wont. There will be a mix of people, and the boosts are so negligible they wont even be noticeable in the grand scheme of things.

     

    WvW is inballanced. Get over it.

     

    If you want to have a balanced PvP experience, there are Scenarios which you can Hot Join instantly.

    Yeah, thats what the apologists say in defense of this.  Either:

    1) Bring more people

    2) Avoid that keep

    3) Well, it only allows you to survive 2 or 3 more hits...

     

    None of the above is acceptable in a PVP game.  NOBODY should be able to buy even the smallest of advantages.

    Okay, so you will hate this game. Why are you playing it?  Because the balance is is that more than likely someone on the other side has something that negates those 2 or 3 hits.  Of course, this isn't a pvp game. The actual balanced pvp is somewhere else in the game and this can't be used on it.  

    Again i ask, why do u care?  You come on here post after post, after thread after thread raving because you believe time advantages equals actual advantages over other players.  

    You call folk names and waste your saturday evening whining over something that's not going to change. There is a cash shop, deal with it.  

  • gainesvilleggainesvilleg Member CommonPosts: 1,053

    Originally posted by Kreedz

    I just told you it is inherently imbalanced.

     

    Read my post again.

     

    You have the option of playing the smaller PvP Scenarios for your dose of balanced PvP.

    I've got my FPSers for a superior esport battleground.  I play MMO's for either open world PVP or close to it (like the RvRvR instance in GW2).  But I won't play a game tainted by pay2win, even if it is only a "small" advantage.

    GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
    1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
    2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  • MonorojoMonorojo Member UncommonPosts: 411

    I have been telling people on this forum that GW2 is pay to win for MONTHS.

     

    All i get in reply is "u troll!1!! go back to WoW go back to *insert random MMO*"

    The extent of denial here is incredible. This game is clearly PAY TO WIN. If that is cool with you, then ok. But to deny this fact is the only actual trolling go on right now.

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