Heh , you gotta be pretty naive on believing that a game that is F2P with a cash shop won't be B2W. Even if the Devs say otherwise. Scratching this game off my list of trials , NEXT!
Too bad 95% of the gaming community are on social welfare and can't support a 10-15$ a month MMO , we would of had ALOT of epic titles.
Heh , you gotta be pretty naive on believing that a game that is F2P with a cash shop won't be B2W. Even if the Devs say otherwise. Scratching this game off my list of trials , NEXT!
Too bad 95% of the gaming community are on social welfare and can't support a 10-15$ a month MMO , we would of had ALOT of epic titles.
I would like to see how anyone can logically come to the conclusion that chests which can only be unlocked by buying keys from the cash shop isnt Pay 2 win.
Cuz i dont think anyone can and if they do claim its not Pay 2 win I think they are being willfully ignorant and/or intellectually dishonest.
So lets hear it. Defend this obvious pay 2 win scam.
You're making at LEAST two assumptions here. One....that said chest keys are still in the cash shop, and two....that said chest keys are not ALSO drops in the game world.
You don't know the certainty of either of these things, therefore your question can't really be answered.
As others have said here and I'll echo - the keys can be obtained from other ways than just the cash shop. Even if they couldn't, if the chests provided no statistical advantage, it's still not Pay-To-Win. OP came into the argument with an illogical argument himself.
In my view the mystic chests/keys are not necessarily one of the pay2win items, depends on the contents of the chest (the reporting on that has been too variable to confirm).
The clear pay2win aspect of GW2 now is the RvRvR boosts via gems->gold->influence.
However there are many many annoying items that are put in the cash shop, along with a corresponding in-game grind or gold sink, that are equally bad as the clear pay2win items in my opinion.
What the mystic chests are is at minimum a completely crass in-game advertisement for the cash shop. Annoying but not necessarily pay2win (but still may be). Even if the mystic keys are rare drops (i.e., you will never have enough) or if they can be bought in vendors (corresponding grind for gold sink) it is still a crass item worty of a F2P game.
The GW2 cash shop is offensive not simply for the pay2win items, but the many very crass items as well like these keys.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
I would like to see how anyone can logically come to the conclusion that chests which can only be unlocked by buying keys from the cash shop isnt Pay 2 win.
Cuz i dont think anyone can and if they do claim its not Pay 2 win I think they are being willfully ignorant and/or intellectually dishonest.
So lets hear it. Defend this obvious pay 2 win scam.
Who knows if you can get the key somewhere else. You may be able to. I would not claim the sky is falling just yet. Chances are that the items inside are cosmetic anyways. You can also still exchange gold for gems and buy the key that way without paying any money. So yeah. Pay to win? Hardly. Maybe if you could exchange Gems for items directly, but afaik you cannot. Since so many people will be undercutting eachother in order to sell the gems cheaper, the market for gems will be determined by players, not the developers or goldsellers. This will also be determined by how much time it would take to earn an amount of time investment equal to the number of gems you can purchase with gold. This is not to mention that there will be an entire economy centered around gold exclusively since you cannot trade items for gold, so gem values will be influenced by gold value --not the other way around.
This makes buying/selling gold/gems for real money nearly impossible since the gold sellers have to constantly compete with individual players changing the overall market value of gold. This also means that no matter who sells gems online, ArenaNet still makes the money for the sale since it had to have been purchased from them at some point. This is a huge win in my eyes as I would rather see the players control in game how much time is worth (considering the cheap value of gems currently in beta, this won't cap very high) then some chinese gold farmer.
If there is a cash shop with ANYTHING in it people will complain about "having" to buy these items to compete. Thats just how the micro-transaction market works. ArenaNet has a game where you cap out on character progression very quickly in both statistics and level progression and people will still find ways to complain about how it is "pay to win". Not only are they providing support for there game through micro-transactions that are not even remotely necessary, but they are giving gold sellers a kick in the balls while they are at it.
P.S: This is from a leak that was under NDA for a reason. Things can and will change. ArenaNet is a company that listens heavily to feedback, so even if you are going to continue to whine about these type of things that most people with sense understand don't matter, chances are that they will change it anyways to cater to you because they listen to the fans.
Heh , you gotta be pretty naive on believing that a game that is F2P with a cash shop won't be B2W. Even if the Devs say otherwise. Scratching this game off my list of trials , NEXT!
Too bad 95% of the gaming community are on social welfare and can't support a 10-15$ a month MMO , we would of had ALOT of epic titles.
Well since its not F2P and they have shown in thier first game that they can do a cash shop without P2W I would have to disagree. I could be proven wrong though. Not to mention there are F2P titles out there that are not P2W. I would say anyone scratching this game off thier list before even knowing what exactly is in the cash shop that can not be obtained ingame is naive.
As far as the welfare comment. That just shows an amount of ignorance thats astounding. Not to mention since GW2 is B2P that would suggest that 95% of the gamer community wont be able to afford to play it in the first place. See how stupid of a comment it is now?
If at anytime in a game you have to buy something with real money to do anything in the game your paying to play it .
In some form or manner.
/Nuff said
You're arguing semantics, and not doing a good job of it. Pay to play refers to being required to pay...to play, it's quite simple really.
As for the OP, I guess it depends what is inside these chest/boxes? Though it would seem odd if they are simply cosmetic items...
Your right it is quite simple this game is box purchase and free to play .
Example of my point : if i have to spend 1 dollar everytime i cast a spell (buy a key to open a box ) im paying to play the game .
Pretty simple eh?
Move on ...
Already stated that they drop in the game..
You're paying a dollar for a non-required aspect of the game (Key), if it were required then it would be pay-to-play (Playing/logging in). In society there are terms that everyone essentially agrees on to enable conversation to flow better. Pay-to-play as MMORPG players know it, refers to paying a subscription, Cash-shop refers to paying for extras. If for some reason in your head you want to call these something else, that's fine, but at least be aware of what the common understanding/definition is of them.
The term is also used as slang to refer to Internet services that require that users pay to use them. Usually, it refers to MMORPGs, where players must pay to maintain a playing account, as is the case with EverQuest, Warhammer Online, Aion: The Tower of Eternity, or World of Warcraft. This is in contrast to free-to-play games. The game RuneScape features both free accounts for no money or pay-to-play accounts, with a much larger list of features.
We need to just get rid of free to play all together go back to the way it was , pay your 50 cents a day for your monthly sub , then all this talk and arguing will be over with .
I would like to see how anyone can logically come to the conclusion that chests which can only be unlocked by buying keys from the cash shop isnt Pay 2 win.
Cuz i dont think anyone can and if they do claim its not Pay 2 win I think they are being willfully ignorant and/or intellectually dishonest.
So lets hear it. Defend this obvious pay 2 win scam.
You're making at LEAST two assumptions here. One....that said chest keys are still in the cash shop, and two....that said chest keys are not ALSO drops in the game world.
You don't know the certainty of either of these things, therefore your question can't really be answered.
As others have said here and I'll echo - the keys can be obtained from other ways than just the cash shop. Even if they couldn't, if the chests provided no statistical advantage, it's still not Pay-To-Win. OP came into the argument with an illogical argument himself.
In my view the mystic chests/keys are not necessarily one of the pay2win items, depends on the contents of the chest (the reporting on that has been too variable to confirm).
The clear pay2win aspect of GW2 now is the RvRvR boosts via gems->gold->influence.
However there are many many annoying items that are put in the cash shop, along with a corresponding in-game grind or gold sink, that are equally bad as the clear pay2win items in my opinion.
What the mystic chests are is at minimum a completely crass in-game advertisement for the cash shop. Annoying but not necessarily pay2win (but still may be). Even if the mystic keys are rare drops (i.e., you will never have enough) or if they can be bought in vendors (corresponding grind for gold sink) it is still a crass item worty of a F2P game.
The GW2 cash shop is offensive not simply for the pay2win items, but the many very crass items as well like these keys.
Again with this nonsense?
I'll explain this one last time: the guilds who will be able to use RvRvR boosts do not need to purchase influence. They will generate enough influence on their own.
We need to just get rid of free to play all together go back to the way it was , pay your 25 cents a day for your monthly sub , then all this bullshit talk and arguing will be over with .
We need to just get rid of free to play all together go back to the way it was , pay your 50 cents a day for your monthly sub , then all this bullshit talk and arguing will be over with .
Good ole pay and play !
Anyone else agree ?
if there were a consumerism utopia, you sir would be its ruler.
We need to just get rid of free to play all together go back to the way it was , pay your 50 cents a day for your monthly sub , then all this bullshit talk and arguing will be over with .
Good ole pay and play !
Anyone else agree ?
I actually 100% agree. And I would be willing to up the subscription to $50 a month for a truly worthy game. The very crass cash shop mechanics just need to go, along with the pay2win.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
We need to just get rid of free to play all together go back to the way it was , pay your 25 cents a day for your monthly sub , then all this bullshit talk and arguing will be over with .
We need to just get rid of free to play all together go back to the way it was , pay your 50 cents a day for your monthly sub , then all this bullshit talk and arguing will be over with .
Good ole pay and play !
Anyone else agree ?
if there were a consumerism utopia, you sir would be its ruler.
We need to just get rid of free to play all together go back to the way it was , pay your 50 cents a day for your monthly sub , then all this bullshit talk and arguing will be over with .
Good ole pay and play !
Anyone else agree ?
Not really. Having options is nice. And the time of "pay a monthly sub and get 100% of the game w/ expansions" is long, long gone. Blizzard isnt the only P2P game that has added a cash shop to thier MMO. They are the only ones that got away with it with the playerbase but not the only to do it. So nah, I'll enjoy having options.
Heres a very simple answer, Everything in the cash shop can by earned with ingame gold, players who buy gems with real cash , sell them for ingame gold, with gems you can buy anything you want
We need to just get rid of free to play all together go back to the way it was , pay your 50 cents a day for your monthly sub , then all this bullshit talk and arguing will be over with .
Good ole pay and play !
Anyone else agree ?
I actually 100% agree. And I would be willing to up the subscription to $50 a month for a truly worthy game. The very crass cash shop mechanics just need to go, along with the pay2win.
I'm not a fan of cash shops either, however dragon3's comment makes me laugh/cry (ok mostly shocked). It's like don't ask any question just pay. Just hook you guys up to the machine and let the money flow...I like it.
We need to just get rid of free to play all together go back to the way it was , pay your 50 cents a day for your monthly sub , then all this bullshit talk and arguing will be over with .
Good ole pay and play !
Anyone else agree ?
I actually 100% agree. And I would be willing to up the subscription to $50 a month for a truly worthy game. The very crass cash shop mechanics just need to go, along with the pay2win.
Yes and the kids would get to work to pay for the game...
Instead of arguing about how f2p is REALLY free.
When your paying for adventure packs, classes , vanity gear , races, areas, etc.
Sounds free to me. Maybe we can re word it to free to log in?
Heres a very simple answer, Everything in the cash shop can by earned with ingame gold, players who buy gems with real cash , sell them for ingame gold, with gems you can buy anything you want
We need to just get rid of free to play all together go back to the way it was , pay your 50 cents a day for your monthly sub , then all this bullshit talk and arguing will be over with .
Good ole pay and play !
Anyone else agree ?
I actually 100% agree. And I would be willing to up the subscription to $50 a month for a truly worthy game. The very crass cash shop mechanics just need to go, along with the pay2win.
I'm not a fan of cash shops either, however dragon3's comment makes me laugh/cry (ok mostly shocked). It's like don't ask any question just pay. Just hook you guys up to the machine and let the money flow...I like it.
It was meant as a joke lol , honestly i dont care is there is cash shops in games as long as i can earn that same mount, armor , chest key or whatever in game . This is simply not the case in 80 percent of f2p games . Wich means your forced to pay if you want that item. cash shops are good for the casual player to reduce time but at least have the item avail in game for those who would rather earn it.
Ok time to move on i had my forum fix for the day have a nice day all!
We need to just get rid of free to play all together go back to the way it was , pay your 50 cents a day for your monthly sub , then all this bullshit talk and arguing will be over with .
Good ole pay and play !
Anyone else agree ?
I actually 100% agree. And I would be willing to up the subscription to $50 a month for a truly worthy game. The very crass cash shop mechanics just need to go, along with the pay2win.
I'm not a fan of cash shops either, however dragon3's comment makes me laugh/cry (ok mostly shocked). It's like don't ask any question just pay. Just hook you guys up to the machine and let the money flow...I like it.
Much better than the annoying cash shop and the many in-game tweaks the developers do to get you to go to the cash shop. Very immersion breaking. GW2 should just put a sign on top of the mystic chests you find that say "Please visit the cash shop TODAY!"
I would gladly just pay the monthly fee to ensure I don't need to see these annoying in-game advertisements or have to worry if I am keeping up with the pay2win Joneses. It isn't the actual money that I care about, it is the effect on the mechanics of the game and needing to actually consider out-of-game cash shop in your min/maxing.
A subscription fee is so darn cheap I don't see why gamers are offended by it. If anything, maybe it will get the annoying 12 year olds without credit cards out of the game so the MMO can support more complex game mechanics (admittedly this hasn't worked in WoW). Not to be a classist here, but my cable bill alone is over $200 a month why would I care about a piddly subscription fee? Many of the people that can't handle this fee are what is dumbing down the complexity of MMOs in the first place. Sorry but its a fact. We always have EVE though ha. The one adult game in the MMO marketplace.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Heres a very simple answer, Everything in the cash shop can by earned with ingame gold, players who buy gems with real cash , sell them for ingame gold, with gems you can buy anything you want
And ontop of that, the cash-shop is pretty much completely worthless to players who are no visual-"whores"
I dont care about pets, I dont care about coloring your armor, I dont care about extra social-gear. But hey that does not mean you guys should do so aswell Imagine poor ArenaNet earning nothing from the CashShop? Booboo
Weeee...!
You people have to get it into your mind: If you do not buy things from cash-shops, they disappear. But ofc you can still complain on every new MMO-title that comes out, if you cant keep your hands off the shop.
We need to just get rid of free to play all together go back to the way it was , pay your 50 cents a day for your monthly sub , then all this bullshit talk and arguing will be over with .
Good ole pay and play !
Anyone else agree ?
I actually 100% agree. And I would be willing to up the subscription to $50 a month for a truly worthy game. The very crass cash shop mechanics just need to go, along with the pay2win.
I'm not a fan of cash shops either, however dragon3's comment makes me laugh/cry (ok mostly shocked). It's like don't ask any question just pay. Just hook you guys up to the machine and let the money flow...I like it.
Much better than the annoying cash shop and the many in-game tweaks the developers do to get you to go to the cash shop. Very immersion breaking. GW2 should just put a sign on top of the mystic chests you find that say "Please visit the cash shop TODAY!"
I would gladly just pay the monthly fee to ensure I don't need to see these annoying in-game advertisements or have to worry if I am keeping up with the pay2win Joneses. It isn't the actual money that I care about, it is the effect on the mechanics of the game and needing to actually consider out-of-game cash shop in your min/maxing.
A subscription fee is so darn cheap I don't see why gamers are offended by it. If anything, maybe it will get the annoying 12 year olds without credit cards out of the game so the MMO can support more complex game mechanics. Not to be a classist here, but my cable bill alone is over $200 a month why would I care about a piddly subscription fee? Many of the people that can't handle this fee are what is dumbing down the complexity of MMOs in the first place. Sorry but its a fact. We always have EVE though ha. The one adult game in the MMO marketplace.
why cant you just gladly play something else, For as much time as you piss and moan about the game you would think you just wouldnt buy it and P2P something that you like.
Comments
The game is not F2P.
NEXT!
That makes no sense, much like this thread.
To you I say Good Day.
In my view the mystic chests/keys are not necessarily one of the pay2win items, depends on the contents of the chest (the reporting on that has been too variable to confirm).
The clear pay2win aspect of GW2 now is the RvRvR boosts via gems->gold->influence.
However there are many many annoying items that are put in the cash shop, along with a corresponding in-game grind or gold sink, that are equally bad as the clear pay2win items in my opinion.
What the mystic chests are is at minimum a completely crass in-game advertisement for the cash shop. Annoying but not necessarily pay2win (but still may be). Even if the mystic keys are rare drops (i.e., you will never have enough) or if they can be bought in vendors (corresponding grind for gold sink) it is still a crass item worty of a F2P game.
The GW2 cash shop is offensive not simply for the pay2win items, but the many very crass items as well like these keys.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Who knows if you can get the key somewhere else. You may be able to. I would not claim the sky is falling just yet. Chances are that the items inside are cosmetic anyways. You can also still exchange gold for gems and buy the key that way without paying any money. So yeah. Pay to win? Hardly. Maybe if you could exchange Gems for items directly, but afaik you cannot. Since so many people will be undercutting eachother in order to sell the gems cheaper, the market for gems will be determined by players, not the developers or goldsellers. This will also be determined by how much time it would take to earn an amount of time investment equal to the number of gems you can purchase with gold. This is not to mention that there will be an entire economy centered around gold exclusively since you cannot trade items for gold, so gem values will be influenced by gold value --not the other way around.
This makes buying/selling gold/gems for real money nearly impossible since the gold sellers have to constantly compete with individual players changing the overall market value of gold. This also means that no matter who sells gems online, ArenaNet still makes the money for the sale since it had to have been purchased from them at some point. This is a huge win in my eyes as I would rather see the players control in game how much time is worth (considering the cheap value of gems currently in beta, this won't cap very high) then some chinese gold farmer.
If there is a cash shop with ANYTHING in it people will complain about "having" to buy these items to compete. Thats just how the micro-transaction market works. ArenaNet has a game where you cap out on character progression very quickly in both statistics and level progression and people will still find ways to complain about how it is "pay to win". Not only are they providing support for there game through micro-transactions that are not even remotely necessary, but they are giving gold sellers a kick in the balls while they are at it.
P.S: This is from a leak that was under NDA for a reason. Things can and will change. ArenaNet is a company that listens heavily to feedback, so even if you are going to continue to whine about these type of things that most people with sense understand don't matter, chances are that they will change it anyways to cater to you because they listen to the fans.
Well since its not F2P and they have shown in thier first game that they can do a cash shop without P2W I would have to disagree. I could be proven wrong though. Not to mention there are F2P titles out there that are not P2W. I would say anyone scratching this game off thier list before even knowing what exactly is in the cash shop that can not be obtained ingame is naive.
As far as the welfare comment. That just shows an amount of ignorance thats astounding. Not to mention since GW2 is B2P that would suggest that 95% of the gamer community wont be able to afford to play it in the first place. See how stupid of a comment it is now?
You're paying a dollar for a non-required aspect of the game (Key), if it were required then it would be pay-to-play (Playing/logging in). In society there are terms that everyone essentially agrees on to enable conversation to flow better. Pay-to-play as MMORPG players know it, refers to paying a subscription, Cash-shop refers to paying for extras. If for some reason in your head you want to call these something else, that's fine, but at least be aware of what the common understanding/definition is of them.
To save some time, and futile arguments...
From Wiki on Pay to Play
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay_to_play
In online gaming
The term is also used as slang to refer to Internet services that require that users pay to use them. Usually, it refers to MMORPGs, where players must pay to maintain a playing account, as is the case with EverQuest, Warhammer Online, Aion: The Tower of Eternity, or World of Warcraft. This is in contrast to free-to-play games. The game RuneScape features both free accounts for no money or pay-to-play accounts, with a much larger list of features.
We need to just get rid of free to play all together go back to the way it was , pay your 50 cents a day for your monthly sub , then all this talk and arguing will be over with .
Good ole pay and play !
Anyone else agree ?
Edited: for deca the bad word disturbed him..
Again with this nonsense?
I'll explain this one last time: the guilds who will be able to use RvRvR boosts do not need to purchase influence. They will generate enough influence on their own.
Wow...
if there were a consumerism utopia, you sir would be its ruler.
I actually 100% agree. And I would be willing to up the subscription to $50 a month for a truly worthy game. The very crass cash shop mechanics just need to go, along with the pay2win.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Wow what? is that your game of choice?
Thanks!
Not really. Having options is nice. And the time of "pay a monthly sub and get 100% of the game w/ expansions" is long, long gone. Blizzard isnt the only P2P game that has added a cash shop to thier MMO. They are the only ones that got away with it with the playerbase but not the only to do it. So nah, I'll enjoy having options.
Heres a very simple answer, Everything in the cash shop can by earned with ingame gold, players who buy gems with real cash , sell them for ingame gold, with gems you can buy anything you want
I'm not a fan of cash shops either, however dragon3's comment makes me laugh/cry (ok mostly shocked). It's like don't ask any question just pay. Just hook you guys up to the machine and let the money flow...I like it.
Yes and the kids would get to work to pay for the game...
Instead of arguing about how f2p is REALLY free.
When your paying for adventure packs, classes , vanity gear , races, areas, etc.
Sounds free to me. Maybe we can re word it to free to log in?
Well thats a first !
It was meant as a joke lol , honestly i dont care is there is cash shops in games as long as i can earn that same mount, armor , chest key or whatever in game . This is simply not the case in 80 percent of f2p games . Wich means your forced to pay if you want that item. cash shops are good for the casual player to reduce time but at least have the item avail in game for those who would rather earn it.
Ok time to move on i had my forum fix for the day have a nice day all!
Much better than the annoying cash shop and the many in-game tweaks the developers do to get you to go to the cash shop. Very immersion breaking. GW2 should just put a sign on top of the mystic chests you find that say "Please visit the cash shop TODAY!"
I would gladly just pay the monthly fee to ensure I don't need to see these annoying in-game advertisements or have to worry if I am keeping up with the pay2win Joneses. It isn't the actual money that I care about, it is the effect on the mechanics of the game and needing to actually consider out-of-game cash shop in your min/maxing.
A subscription fee is so darn cheap I don't see why gamers are offended by it. If anything, maybe it will get the annoying 12 year olds without credit cards out of the game so the MMO can support more complex game mechanics (admittedly this hasn't worked in WoW). Not to be a classist here, but my cable bill alone is over $200 a month why would I care about a piddly subscription fee? Many of the people that can't handle this fee are what is dumbing down the complexity of MMOs in the first place. Sorry but its a fact. We always have EVE though ha. The one adult game in the MMO marketplace.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
?
And ontop of that, the cash-shop is pretty much completely worthless to players who are no visual-"whores"
I dont care about pets, I dont care about coloring your armor, I dont care about extra social-gear. But hey that does not mean you guys should do so aswell
Imagine poor ArenaNet earning nothing from the CashShop? Booboo
Weeee...!
You people have to get it into your mind: If you do not buy things from cash-shops, they disappear. But ofc you can still complain on every new MMO-title that comes out, if you cant keep your hands off the shop.
If you dont like it dont play or get a better paying job
why cant you just gladly play something else, For as much time as you piss and moan about the game you would think you just wouldnt buy it and P2P something that you like.