I LOVE THIS! Please play in my Pen&Paper group! No, you know what, come over to Europe this summer to LARP with my friends and me, we need people like you. ^_^
(Urgh, I just realized the American LARP is even nerdier than the European way of doing it. At least our weapons LOOK the part.)
Let me point out that, in fact, I couldn't care less about these first world problems. I'm just having fun.
Several of my favorite villians, and games are as fallows. Shining force 2 wiith Oddeye the blind arch-demon swordsmen that desired to be like the heros, but could not break free of his destiny as a high ranking member of the forces of darkness, and in his dying moments actually told the player how he hoped to come back as a mere human if that would allow him to be like the. Many of the plot, as well as characters in Xenogears were very perception based, and many times were never truly evil in any regard such as ID. In legend of Dragoon LLoyd was a great villian that soought only to bring back the glory of his people, and was manipulated by powers beyond him into doing thgns that were not of his desires.
YOu also have those players that see their character as some form of either the perfection f who they want to be, such as a largely submissive person creating a truly dominant character that commands respect as well as controls those around them. As well as players that want to see how they would maybe be in the darker more uncivilized past, crafting a more commoner or nobility persona in the world. I mean many talk about becoming some no-nname person in the world that is part of the backdrop of the world, but to some others they want to be thatn noblemen or such in the world of the past as best as they can. So you have players that do not see the character as an extention or a puppetm but as a way of lving out dreams or experince in a way times they may never be able to.
Thanks for all the posts. This has turned out to be a very fruitful discussion for me.
I purposely made my poll crude because I knew I would get some interesting answers, and I didn't want to try to guess what they would be. From the perspective of putting myself into a category here, my view of games is very straight forward for me. I project myself into the game world, and my character is basically "me" with varying degrees of flavor or spice thrown in. I only play games where this is possible, so FPS games and MMO games are all I play. Other games simply don't appeal to me. I've always loved the concepts of virtual reality, the Star Trek holodeck, lucid dreaming and other projections of myself into an artificial construct.
I'll say this. If a game experience is really good, I can easily lose track of where I am and how much time is passing. It is as if the construct of reality around my monitor goes away along with everything else outside of my gaming experience. Yes, I can snap out of it at will, but more importantly, I can let myself sink into it pretty damned deep.
This does depend on the game though. My biggest complaint about themepark games is that they simply rob me of this experience by not letting me forge my own adventure. The structured and contrived nature of today's MMOs don't hold a candle to what is really possible here. I see people make fun of Star Wars Galaxies all the time here, and while it was often buggy and broken, those who loved it didn't care. It offered much more to the imagination than any game I've played since, and that means much more than a perfectly polished and scripted experience to me.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
How do you relate to your characters in an MMORPG? I've found that people generally fall into two different categories, and there may even be more. I'd like to know what you all think.
Here's the two camps people seem to fall into:
1) My character is a direct representation of me or an aspect of me. In other words, I project myself directly into the character, and play as if I am the one who is interacting with the virtual world.
2) I'm sort of a "puppet master" who is controlling a character who has little or nothing at all to do with my real life person other than my preferneces for the character's design. In other words, I am not projecting myself into the character, but I am driving it.
Both aspects are interesting. I personally fall under #1, and I suspect the origins of that come from the fact that I played FPS shooters for years and years prior to getting into MMO games. In fact, when I played my first MMO game, Star Wars Galaxies, I remember insisting that I played in First Person view because going into 3rd person view made me feel disconnected from what was essentially my avatar. I find that by projecting myself into my character, the game world can become much more interactive and interesting. The 'puppet master' aspect doesn't appeal to me in the least. In years since I have learned to enjoy playing in both first and third person perspectives without compromising my immersion as self.
One funny side-effect of my view of gaming was that I used to not understand why any guy would roll a female character. I didn't get it at all (sexual preference aside). Once I started to understand that some people see themselves more like "drivers" of a character rather than the character themselves, it made more sense. I suspect the differences in these two camps also drives other misunderstandings in MMO games between people, but who knows?
This can be a very complex subject. I've been a fan of VR since graduating high school in 1990, and I'm also a technology pro. Ray Kurweil brings up some interesting thoughts on this subject, and has a female avatar he uses in Second Life as a symbol of self-reinvention through technology. In that case, he falls into camp #1 above, but with additional complexities involved. At any rate, I am curious to hear your opinions on this, and how you mentally and emotionally interact with your characters.
Added Poll.
You think you can dissect us with that blunt instrument?
Actually, I quite clearly invited you to express your thoughts on the matter as others here have. I did say that I've noticed people fall into two camps, and I said there are probably others. The only one I can really speak about is camp #1, which is how I feel about gaming. In fact some of the posts here have already added quite a bit to my OP. Care to engage?
A player character to use an ancient term, is not an extension of me or at least not on purpose. In pen and paper role playing games, the character tends to grow in relation to intereactions in the game. Characters come and go and I don't suffer any emotional reaction to their perma-death. That doesn't mean I can't have fun with them in their game world it's just that they don't hold any importance as it's just a game. I also don't see the puppet idea as a correct viewpoint for me. Organic, as much as I hate the term, is more appropriate.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
When i play games, i play characters i would never really "be" in real life. I consider myself a highly ethical person so when i play games i tend to make characters that actually aren't fitting into this category.
I don't like butchering in RL but i played hunters and rogues with these abilities in game.
I don't steal but i've played rogues and enjoy pick pocketing.
When i played ADnD around the table with friends i would play clerics mostly because at the time i was truly naive and innocent so it seemed to fit, however when i started playing mmo's i discovered it was more fun to lose myself completely in a role i could never be in RL.
I have never been able to relate to a single character I have ever played in a game
The way my brain automatically process playing a character is like having control over an "actor" in an openended movie. He may make the same moral choices I would make he may not. However he is not me and I do not see him as my alter ego
* I regularly lash out at trolls, even if not the first targetted. I do not hesitate to sneak attack. * If trash mobs come to my door attempting to deter me in my present quest (i.e. Jehovah Witnesses, Vacuum salesman) I will AOE their ass in a hot second * I have a high resistence towards charm affects (i.e. telemarketers, vacuum salesman) * I often pull agro from my wife when said mobs attack (i.e. telemarketers, jehovah witnesses and vacuum salesman) * I like to collect mounts (Jeep and Harley guy) * I like to pick locks and set traps (my neighbors hate this) * I carry a torch with me in case someone turns lights off (who doesnt though, just saying) * When i accomlish something substantial at work I scream "DING", and expect everyone to say "gratz" or something to that effect
Depends on the game. The more freedom of choice and social interaction, the more the character is like me. In a game like SWTOR, though, I put the character on the same level as Pac Man or the white blob you control at the bottom of the screen in Space Invaders - it's just the tool I'm using to complete my objectives.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
To me, the greatest privilege and greatest accomplishment I can have in an MMO is to create a memorable character; one that enhances everyone else's immersion and fun. To do this, I have to break out of myself, because I'm not someone who is typically "memorable." I also have to be able to act the part, and that's the best thing about character creation: you get to create a personality from the ground up, jump into Castronova's "magic circle," and test it out.
I had two main characters in Star Wars Galaxies. One was a tall dancer who was a socialite and an Imperial. The other one was almost exactly the opposite: a short green Rodian smuggler and a Rebel. I kind of figured out who these characters were by simply playing them...the more I did it, the more developed they became.
This is why I miss chatting in spatial, and the down time we used to have in these games. You only really figure out what you've got in a character when you can chat it up with another character. That's when you invent the backstory, see how you might fit in with other characters, and build up stories.
I loved both, but neither character was "me" per se. I felt they had their own lives, and it was up to me to ensure they lived their (virtual) lives to the fullest by directing them well.
The only other two games where I ever had a deep roleplay experience were EVE and City of Heroes. EVE was alright, but it isn't a very intuitive roleplaying platform. City of Heroes was very good, but only because I got in with a roleplay group on the Virtue server. ?
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I roleplay my character as lore say it dont reflect at all what im in realy life.
So i play strange fanatasy avatars of any kind a beast or a human a wolf or lizard a midget or giant or a female or male it dont matter to me.
Im fat, ugly, longhair beard, old and single white male in my dark smelly basement and disgusting so im always trying to be ADONIS ATHELETE AND CASANOVA ingame
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
* I regularly lash out at trolls, even if not the first targetted. I do not hesitate to sneak attack.
* If trash mobs come to my door attempting to deter me in my present quest (i.e. Jehovah Witnesses, Vacuum salesman) I will AOE their ass in a hot second
* I have a high resistence towards charm affects (i.e. telemarketers, vacuum salesman)
* I often pull agro from my wife when said mobs attack (i.e. telemarketers, jehovah witnesses and vacuum salesman)
* I like to collect mounts (Jeep and Harley guy)
* I like to pick locks and set traps (my neighbors hate this)
* I carry a torch with me in case someone turns lights off (who doesnt though, just saying)
* When i accomlish something substantial at work I scream "DING", and expect everyone to say "gratz" or something to that effect
Heck, the list goes on and on.
LMAO
Ok I admit I do some of that in real life ie aoe trash mobs at my door and my high resistence towards charm effects. I pull agro from my husband (don't have a wife :P) who thinks I am too mean to these people. Truth is, if you are nice they will come back and I don't want that :P Currently planting up a row of rose bushes to stop people from climbing the fence into our garden and helping themselves to stuff Hoping they get a thorn stuck in their backside.
Thanks for the reminder that life can be as much like games as games can be like life
I have never been able to relate to a single character I have ever played in a game
The way my brain automatically process playing a character is like having control over an "actor" in an openended movie. He may make the same moral choices I would make he may not. However he is not me and I do not see him as my alter ego
I think director/actor is about the best analogy for how I play rpgs as well. I tell my character what to do, but I am not my character.
Comments
I LOVE THIS! Please play in my Pen&Paper group! No, you know what, come over to Europe this summer to LARP with my friends and me, we need people like you. ^_^
(Urgh, I just realized the American LARP is even nerdier than the European way of doing it. At least our weapons LOOK the part.)
Let me point out that, in fact, I couldn't care less about these first world problems. I'm just having fun.
Several of my favorite villians, and games are as fallows. Shining force 2 wiith Oddeye the blind arch-demon swordsmen that desired to be like the heros, but could not break free of his destiny as a high ranking member of the forces of darkness, and in his dying moments actually told the player how he hoped to come back as a mere human if that would allow him to be like the. Many of the plot, as well as characters in Xenogears were very perception based, and many times were never truly evil in any regard such as ID. In legend of Dragoon LLoyd was a great villian that soought only to bring back the glory of his people, and was manipulated by powers beyond him into doing thgns that were not of his desires.
YOu also have those players that see their character as some form of either the perfection f who they want to be, such as a largely submissive person creating a truly dominant character that commands respect as well as controls those around them. As well as players that want to see how they would maybe be in the darker more uncivilized past, crafting a more commoner or nobility persona in the world. I mean many talk about becoming some no-nname person in the world that is part of the backdrop of the world, but to some others they want to be thatn noblemen or such in the world of the past as best as they can. So you have players that do not see the character as an extention or a puppetm but as a way of lving out dreams or experince in a way times they may never be able to.
My characters are actors in a play I'm directing. They are not me ... nor would I want them to be.
Thanks for all the posts. This has turned out to be a very fruitful discussion for me.
I purposely made my poll crude because I knew I would get some interesting answers, and I didn't want to try to guess what they would be. From the perspective of putting myself into a category here, my view of games is very straight forward for me. I project myself into the game world, and my character is basically "me" with varying degrees of flavor or spice thrown in. I only play games where this is possible, so FPS games and MMO games are all I play. Other games simply don't appeal to me. I've always loved the concepts of virtual reality, the Star Trek holodeck, lucid dreaming and other projections of myself into an artificial construct.
I'll say this. If a game experience is really good, I can easily lose track of where I am and how much time is passing. It is as if the construct of reality around my monitor goes away along with everything else outside of my gaming experience. Yes, I can snap out of it at will, but more importantly, I can let myself sink into it pretty damned deep.
This does depend on the game though. My biggest complaint about themepark games is that they simply rob me of this experience by not letting me forge my own adventure. The structured and contrived nature of today's MMOs don't hold a candle to what is really possible here. I see people make fun of Star Wars Galaxies all the time here, and while it was often buggy and broken, those who loved it didn't care. It offered much more to the imagination than any game I've played since, and that means much more than a perfectly polished and scripted experience to me.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
A player character to use an ancient term, is not an extension of me or at least not on purpose. In pen and paper role playing games, the character tends to grow in relation to intereactions in the game. Characters come and go and I don't suffer any emotional reaction to their perma-death. That doesn't mean I can't have fun with them in their game world it's just that they don't hold any importance as it's just a game. I also don't see the puppet idea as a correct viewpoint for me. Organic, as much as I hate the term, is more appropriate.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
When i play games, i play characters i would never really "be" in real life. I consider myself a highly ethical person so when i play games i tend to make characters that actually aren't fitting into this category.
I don't like butchering in RL but i played hunters and rogues with these abilities in game.
I don't steal but i've played rogues and enjoy pick pocketing.
When i played ADnD around the table with friends i would play clerics mostly because at the time i was truly naive and innocent so it seemed to fit, however when i started playing mmo's i discovered it was more fun to lose myself completely in a role i could never be in RL.
I have never been able to relate to a single character I have ever played in a game
The way my brain automatically process playing a character is like having control over an "actor" in an openended movie. He may make the same moral choices I would make he may not. However he is not me and I do not see him as my alter ego
In real life, just like my characters:
* I regularly lash out at trolls, even if not the first targetted. I do not hesitate to sneak attack.
* If trash mobs come to my door attempting to deter me in my present quest (i.e. Jehovah Witnesses, Vacuum salesman) I will AOE their ass in a hot second
* I have a high resistence towards charm affects (i.e. telemarketers, vacuum salesman)
* I often pull agro from my wife when said mobs attack (i.e. telemarketers, jehovah witnesses and vacuum salesman)
* I like to collect mounts (Jeep and Harley guy)
* I like to pick locks and set traps (my neighbors hate this)
* I carry a torch with me in case someone turns lights off (who doesnt though, just saying)
* When i accomlish something substantial at work I scream "DING", and expect everyone to say "gratz" or something to that effect
Heck, the list goes on and on.
lol.
I find the combat most fun as a puppet master. Always laugh in movies when the bad guy relies on underhand secret tricks!
For story, a mix of char's biography and my own ideas.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Depends on the game. The more freedom of choice and social interaction, the more the character is like me. In a game like SWTOR, though, I put the character on the same level as Pac Man or the white blob you control at the bottom of the screen in Space Invaders - it's just the tool I'm using to complete my objectives.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
To me, the greatest privilege and greatest accomplishment I can have in an MMO is to create a memorable character; one that enhances everyone else's immersion and fun. To do this, I have to break out of myself, because I'm not someone who is typically "memorable." I also have to be able to act the part, and that's the best thing about character creation: you get to create a personality from the ground up, jump into Castronova's "magic circle," and test it out.
I had two main characters in Star Wars Galaxies. One was a tall dancer who was a socialite and an Imperial. The other one was almost exactly the opposite: a short green Rodian smuggler and a Rebel. I kind of figured out who these characters were by simply playing them...the more I did it, the more developed they became.
This is why I miss chatting in spatial, and the down time we used to have in these games. You only really figure out what you've got in a character when you can chat it up with another character. That's when you invent the backstory, see how you might fit in with other characters, and build up stories.
I loved both, but neither character was "me" per se. I felt they had their own lives, and it was up to me to ensure they lived their (virtual) lives to the fullest by directing them well.
The only other two games where I ever had a deep roleplay experience were EVE and City of Heroes. EVE was alright, but it isn't a very intuitive roleplaying platform. City of Heroes was very good, but only because I got in with a roleplay group on the Virtue server. ?
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I roleplay my character as lore say it dont reflect at all what im in realy life.
So i play strange fanatasy avatars of any kind a beast or a human a wolf or lizard a midget or giant or a female or male it dont matter to me.
Im fat, ugly, longhair beard, old and single white male in my dark smelly basement and disgusting so im always trying to be ADONIS ATHELETE AND CASANOVA ingame
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
LMAO
Ok I admit I do some of that in real life ie aoe trash mobs at my door and my high resistence towards charm effects. I pull agro from my husband (don't have a wife :P) who thinks I am too mean to these people. Truth is, if you are nice they will come back and I don't want that :P Currently planting up a row of rose bushes to stop people from climbing the fence into our garden and helping themselves to stuff
Hoping they get a thorn stuck in their backside.
Thanks for the reminder that life can be as much like games as games can be like life
the poster formerly known as melangel :P
I think director/actor is about the best analogy for how I play rpgs as well. I tell my character what to do, but I am not my character.