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How do you relate to your characters in an MMORPG?

How do you relate to your characters in an MMORPG? I've found that people generally fall into two different categories, and there may even be more.  I'd like to know what you all think.

Here's the two camps people seem to fall into:

1) My character is a direct representation of me or an aspect of me.  In other words, I project myself directly into the character, and play as if I am the one who is interacting with the virtual world. 

2) I'm sort of a "puppet master" who is controlling a character who has little or nothing at all to do with my real life person other than my preferences for the character's design.  In other words, I am not projecting myself into the character, but I am driving it.

Both aspects are interesting.  I personally fall under #1, and I suspect the origins of that come from the fact that I played FPS shooters for years and years prior to getting into MMO games.  In fact, when I played my first MMO game, Star Wars Galaxies, I remember insisting that I played in First Person view because going into 3rd person view made me feel disconnected from what was essentially my avatar. I find that by projecting myself into my character, the game world can become much more interactive and interesting.   The 'puppet master' aspect doesn't appeal to me in the least. In years since I have learned to enjoy playing in both first and third person perspectives without compromising my immersion as self.

One funny side-effect of my view of gaming was that I used to not understand why any guy would roll a female character.  I didn't get it at all (sexual preference aside).  Once I started to understand that some people see themselves more like "drivers" of a character rather than the character themselves, it made more sense.  I suspect the differences in these two camps also drives other misunderstandings in MMO games between people, but who knows?

This can be a very complex subject.  I've been a fan of VR since graduating high school in 1990, and I'm also a technology pro.  Ray Kurweil brings up some interesting thoughts on this subject, and has a female avatar he uses in Second Life as a symbol of self-reinvention through technology. In that case, he falls into camp #1 above, but with additional complexities involved.  At any rate, I am curious to hear your opinions on this, and how you mentally and emotionally interact with your characters.

Added Poll. 

EDIT:  The poll is purposefully vague.  Please feel free to contribute your perspective to the discussion.  If the poll bothers you, ignore it.  It's not as important as your comments are. Thanks!

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

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Comments

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger Member Posts: 2,596

    As a side note, here is an older (2006) TED talk on this subject, and while some of the information is dated, the overall message is still very relevant and interesting.

    http://www.ted.com/talks/david_perry_on_videogames.html

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • EmwynEmwyn Member Posts: 546

    1 though maybe a more adventurous person then I am in real life. I never sit down and think  I'm going to play this person with this back story and stick to some prescripted memorised thing in my brain. I usually use the same names across all games I play and I don't think each name is someone different. Characters are an extension of myself  as I'm still driving the person and I'm never NOT aware I'm playing a game.  It's like reading a really good book where you can be transported in some small way to another place/time whatever but you know you are still you and in your home. It's imagination. A book or game that takes you on a journey is the best sort.

    ok. Listening to this thing you linked. Hmm, I definately don't blur real life with game life like this guy. Maybe because I've been playing games for so long and when I started out they were definately not graphically realistic like they are now adays. I think one of the first games I ever played on an arcade machine was Astroids, then probably PacMan or Tron. I never went away wishing I lived in those worlds and I don't do that now. Sure games are more realistic now but I prefer real life all the same. I like to visit other worlds in games and books, rather  then living IN them if you get what I am saying. If not, sorry but it makes sense in my brain :) Maybe it's a generational thing I don't know.

    the poster formerly known as melangel :P

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger Member Posts: 2,596

    Originally posted by melangel

    1 though maybe a more adventurous person then I am in real life. I never sit down and think  I'm going to play this person with this back story and stick to some prescripted memorised thing in my brain. I usually use the same names across all games I play and I don't think each name is someone different. Characters are an extension of myself  as I'm still driving the person and I'm never NOT aware I'm playing a game.  It's like reading a really good book where you can be transported in some small way to another place/time whatever but you know you are still you and in your home. It's imagination. A book or game that takes you on a journey are is the best sort.

    This is exactly why I have always prefered the sandbox design ideal rather than having an on-rails story stuffed down my throat.  SWTOR, for example is the worst possible type of MMO for someone like me, because I can't be me.  I'm whoever they tell me I am.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • punkrockpunkrock Member Posts: 1,777

    I have used the same name in every MMORPG game since 1997 with UO, the first one being Draconis and then setsua.  

    On the story part, aye i make my toon refelt me at times, but nto all the time thou/  I mostly play a tank class becouse like in real life i love to defend stuff lol.

  • NiffiNiffi Member Posts: 36

    I wanted to write down here in a minute, but then i thought over it and thought an thougt. :D

    My problem is, that im not very experienced in any kind of role-play. Ofcourse i have imagination, but...

    I think, the best way to explain is, that i wouldnt say, that i can find me in one of these points you wrote. Sometimes i play the game only to have fun and i act like i would act in real. But sometimes i create a complex rp for my character, too. This rp has everytime something from my own character, but not much. So, im the hero, but at the same time, im not the hero, im only the controller of the hero.

    Greets Niffi

    P.s: That isnt exactly what i mean, but dont know, how to express it a better way. :D

  • EmwynEmwyn Member Posts: 546

    Originally posted by MindTrigger

    Originally posted by melangel

    1 though maybe a more adventurous person then I am in real life. I never sit down and think  I'm going to play this person with this back story and stick to some prescripted memorised thing in my brain. I usually use the same names across all games I play and I don't think each name is someone different. Characters are an extension of myself  as I'm still driving the person and I'm never NOT aware I'm playing a game.  It's like reading a really good book where you can be transported in some small way to another place/time whatever but you know you are still you and in your home. It's imagination. A book or game that takes you on a journey are is the best sort.

    This is exactly why I have always prefered the sandbox design ideal rather than having an on-rails story stuffed down my throat.  SWTOR, for example is the worst possible type of MMO for someone like me, because I can't be me.  I'm whoever they tell me I am.

    I hear you. And I am the same. I prefer sandbox to themepark and I get why you do too.

    edit: in regards to SWTOR that's what I felt too. Though I only played for a weekend, on one level I enjoyed the story, such as I would a book. I wouldn't pay monthly to read a book ya know?  Well I might if it were the best damn book in all the world and it took me a super long time to read.

    the poster formerly known as melangel :P

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger Member Posts: 2,596

    Originally posted by Niffi

    I wanted to write down here in a minute, but then i thought over it and thought an thougt. :D

    My problem is, that im not very experienced in any kind of role-play. Ofcourse i have imagination, but...

    I think, the best way to explain is, that i wouldnt say, that i can find me in one of these points you wrote. Sometimes i play the game only to have fun and i act like i would act in real. But sometimes i create a complex rp for my character, too. This rp has everytime something from my own character, but not much. So, im the hero, but at the same time, im not the hero, im only the controller of the hero.

    Greets Niffi

    P.s: That isnt exactly what i mean, but dont know, how to express it a better way. :D

    I understand what you mean.  It's not even RP that I am referring to, though RP can be part of it .  For me it's much more about transferring my sense of self into my character while I am playing.  So when I'm playing, I'm essentially playing as myself, rather than just seeing my character as a "doll" I am controlling. 

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • makkaalmakkaal Member Posts: 48

    Originally posted by melangel

    Originally posted by MindTrigger


    Originally posted by melangel

    ... Characters are an extension of myself  ...

    This is exactly why I have always prefered the sandbox design ideal rather than having an on-rails story stuffed down my throat.  SWTOR, for example is the worst possible type of MMO for someone like me, because I can't be me.  I'm whoever they tell me I am.

    I hear you. And I am the same. I prefer sandbox to themepark and I get why you do too.

    edit: in regards to SWTOR that's what I felt too. Though I only played for a weekend, on one level I enjoyed the story, such as I would a book. I wouldn't pay monthly to read a book ya know?  Well I might if it were the best damn book in all the world and it took me a super long time to read.

    This is something I understand, but not something I can sign. I'm an RP'er, and I RP whenever I can, whether I want to or not. I enjoy slipping into the skin and story of someone else. What I can sign however is what melangel said, even though it's taken out of context up there. My characters are the way I wish I could be, they are braver, more cunning, more creative.

    But while I am the one driving this extended entity of mine, being a puppet master if you will, I ask this: is this avatar of mine not myself in a way; isn't my alter ego I create a variation of what I already am, so... am I not projecting something of myself onto him?

    Asking these questions, I do not see a difference between the two choices you put into the poll. 

    Let me point out that, in fact, I couldn't care less about these first world problems. I'm just having fun.

  • AldersAlders Member RarePosts: 2,207

    I ask myself, what would Jack Burton do?

    It's all in the reflexes.

  • EmwynEmwyn Member Posts: 546

    Originally posted by makkaal

    This is something I understand, but not something I can sign. I'm an RP'er, and I RP whenever I can, whether I want to or not. I enjoy slipping into the skin and story of someone else. What I can sign however is what melangel said, even though it's taken out of context up there. My characters are the way I wish I could be, they are braver, more cunning, more creative.

    But while I am the one driving this extended entity of mine, being a puppet master if you will, I ask this: is this avatar of mine not myself in a way; isn't my alter ego I create a variation of what I already am, so... am I not projecting something of myself into him?

    Asking these questions, I do not see a difference between the two choices you put into the poll. 

    I understand you. Alter ego definately :) Such as my more adventurous self. If you've ever written stories, it's the same sort of concept of projecting either yourself into one of your characters or someone you know well. I understand what you are saying and I really contemplated saying both 1 and 2 because I think, you are very much right about that. image

    the poster formerly known as melangel :P

  • BoatsmateBoatsmate Member Posts: 208

    I always wonder which type the players  who are very interested in ,"Can you be evil?" in games are. Are these the people who rudley shove their car in front of yours at a parking place ? Or is it really mild-mannered people acting out a fantasy of being the opposite of their real personalities?

    Ballerinas are always on their toes. Why don't they just get taller ballerinas?

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger Member Posts: 2,596

    Originally posted by makkaal

    Originally posted by melangel


    Originally posted by MindTrigger


    Originally posted by melangel

    ... Characters are an extension of myself  ...

    This is exactly why I have always prefered the sandbox design ideal rather than having an on-rails story stuffed down my throat.  SWTOR, for example is the worst possible type of MMO for someone like me, because I can't be me.  I'm whoever they tell me I am.

    I hear you. And I am the same. I prefer sandbox to themepark and I get why you do too.

    edit: in regards to SWTOR that's what I felt too. Though I only played for a weekend, on one level I enjoyed the story, such as I would a book. I wouldn't pay monthly to read a book ya know?  Well I might if it were the best damn book in all the world and it took me a super long time to read.

    This is something I understand, but not something I can sign. I'm an RP'er, and I RP whenever I can, whether I want to or not. I enjoy slipping into the skin and story of someone else. What I can sign however is what melangel said, even though it's taken out of context up there. My characters are the way I wish I could be, they are braver, more cunning, more creative.

    But while I am the one driving this extended entity of mine, being a puppet master if you will, I ask this: is this avatar of mine not myself in a way; isn't my alter ego I create a variation of what I already am, so... am I not projecting something of myself into him?

    Asking these questions, I do not see a difference between the two choices you put into the poll. 

    You have a good point, and just before I read your comment I was thinking about adding an EDIT to express a similar thought I just had.

    I don't think either one of these perspectives is wrong, but they can be very, very different ways of playing the game.  What you describe is very much like creating a character, creating a story for that character, and then living that character's life through the game world.  I've done this on occasion, though I still usually just play my characters as me.  At one point in SWG I switched over to Imperial side and explored some of my more darker tendancies.  Ultimately I didn't like it much though.  I can see how others would, and there's nothing at all wrong with it.

    To be clear, there are a lot of people who play MMOs that do so in a very disconnected manner from others.  I would consider you connected more like I consider myself.  The other school of thought it almost a disconnection of sorts.  I think this is especially true of people who play these games as if they were a spreadsheet of numbers to be exploited and used.  I think this is where terms like "carebears" come from.  Those people who would use such a term probably have little or no emotional extension into the game other than the competetive aspects.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,769

    Originally posted by MindTrigger

    How do you relate to your characters in an MMORPG? I've found that people generally fall into two different categories, and there may even be more.  I'd like to know what you all think.

    Here's the two camps people seem to fall into:

    1) My character is a direct representation of me or an aspect of me.  In other words, I project myself directly into the character, and play as if I am the one who is interacting with the virtual world. 

    2) I'm sort of a "puppet master" who is controlling a character who has little or nothing at all to do with my real life person other than my preferneces for the character's design.  In other words, I am not projecting myself into the character, but I am driving it.

    Both aspects are interesting.  I personally fall under #1, and I suspect the origins of that come from the fact that I played FPS shooters for years and years prior to getting into MMO games.  In fact, when I played my first MMO game, Star Wars Galaxies, I remember insisting that I played in First Person view because going into 3rd person view made me feel disconnected from what was essentially my avatar. I find that by projecting myself into my character, the game world can become much more interactive and interesting.   The 'puppet master' aspect doesn't appeal to me in the least. In years since I have learned to enjoy playing in both first and third person perspectives without compromising my immersion as self.

    One funny side-effect of my view of gaming was that I used to not understand why any guy would roll a female character.  I didn't get it at all (sexual preference aside).  Once I started to understand that some people see themselves more like "drivers" of a character rather than the character themselves, it made more sense.  I suspect the differences in these two camps also drives other misunderstandings in MMO games between people, but who knows?

    This can be a very complex subject.  I've been a fan of VR since graduating high school in 1990, and I'm also a technology pro.  Ray Kurweil brings up some interesting thoughts on this subject, and has a female avatar he uses in Second Life as a symbol of self-reinvention through technology. In that case, he falls into camp #1 above, but with additional complexities involved.  At any rate, I am curious to hear your opinions on this, and how you mentally and emotionally interact with your characters.

     

    Added Poll.

     

    You think you can dissect us with that blunt instrument?

    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • MindTriggerMindTrigger Member Posts: 2,596

    Originally posted by waynejr2

    Originally posted by MindTrigger

    How do you relate to your characters in an MMORPG? I've found that people generally fall into two different categories, and there may even be more.  I'd like to know what you all think.

    Here's the two camps people seem to fall into:

    1) My character is a direct representation of me or an aspect of me.  In other words, I project myself directly into the character, and play as if I am the one who is interacting with the virtual world. 

    2) I'm sort of a "puppet master" who is controlling a character who has little or nothing at all to do with my real life person other than my preferneces for the character's design.  In other words, I am not projecting myself into the character, but I am driving it.

    Both aspects are interesting.  I personally fall under #1, and I suspect the origins of that come from the fact that I played FPS shooters for years and years prior to getting into MMO games.  In fact, when I played my first MMO game, Star Wars Galaxies, I remember insisting that I played in First Person view because going into 3rd person view made me feel disconnected from what was essentially my avatar. I find that by projecting myself into my character, the game world can become much more interactive and interesting.   The 'puppet master' aspect doesn't appeal to me in the least. In years since I have learned to enjoy playing in both first and third person perspectives without compromising my immersion as self.

    One funny side-effect of my view of gaming was that I used to not understand why any guy would roll a female character.  I didn't get it at all (sexual preference aside).  Once I started to understand that some people see themselves more like "drivers" of a character rather than the character themselves, it made more sense.  I suspect the differences in these two camps also drives other misunderstandings in MMO games between people, but who knows?

    This can be a very complex subject.  I've been a fan of VR since graduating high school in 1990, and I'm also a technology pro.  Ray Kurweil brings up some interesting thoughts on this subject, and has a female avatar he uses in Second Life as a symbol of self-reinvention through technology. In that case, he falls into camp #1 above, but with additional complexities involved.  At any rate, I am curious to hear your opinions on this, and how you mentally and emotionally interact with your characters.

     

    Added Poll.

     

    You think you can dissect us with that blunt instrument?

    Actually, I quite clearly invited you to express your thoughts on the matter as others here have.  I did say that I've noticed people fall into two camps, and I said there are probably others.  The only one I can really speak about is camp #1, which is how I feel about gaming.  In fact some of the posts here have already added quite a bit to my OP.  Care to engage? 

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • Asuran24Asuran24 Member Posts: 517

    Myself I have had many long years of developing character personas in games ike WOD, D&D. Rift, and such that i actually use certain traits from myself to start as a foundation for the characters. These traits then are what i create my background story, behavior, and also mannerism for the character alongside giving them some other traits as well that i do not have. I guess you would say i relate to my characters as some what of how a inventor, or parent would relate to their own childern/creations, yet in the end the chatracters are also a means to an end as well.  Even n games like WOW, rifts, and such where you have far less creative tools to creaate a very unique character i spent days or weeks creating long drawn out background stories, which explained how the events of the past created the character i was playing now. Like in wow how i had a character that was by backstory a member of a race that was apart of the Burning legion, as well as that this character had escaped from the world where their race was being kept prisoner till they were bound to the Legion, and that the character had came to azeroth looking for a way to breach the barrier around the world so that he/she might free their people. n many ways you could say i have varied levels that i relate to my character on that could be seen as any of the examples, from how in the creation levels of the character i am relating as more of a puppet master in creating a story for them, and then on a much more personal level with how the character acts or appears it is more like treating the character as myself or as a child/invention of mine.

  • EmwynEmwyn Member Posts: 546

    Originally posted by Boatsmate

    I always wonder which type the players  who are very interested in ,"Can you be evil?" in games are. Are these the people who rudley shove their car in front of yours at a parking place ? Or is it really mild-mannered people acting out a fantasy of being the opposite of their real personalities?

    I don't want to dominate this whole thread here but I think you bring up a very good question. I asked myself this recently in regards to the idea of playing World of Darkness MMO. Since I know how I am when I play, I didn't think I could possibly play a character that was so violent and so alien to my nature. But then I realised it was a matter of perspective really though my son was the one who helped me realise that. I told him I liked the game but didn't feel I could just randomly kill people for no reason. He said, listen to what you just said keeping in mind you play games and tell me how silly that sounds. So I thought about it and realised he's right. I'm a gamer and  am quite happily to kill xyz mob to get a piece of cloth to sew a hat. I'm not really sure how noble a reason that is if I think about it. Not very if I'm honest. So I read up about it and began to see that doing the same act but for the sake of survival is something else entirely. So now I can have some empathy for the situation and empathy isn't an emotion that is alien to me in real life. Small connection to self, but connection none the less.  You ask, Can you be evil? I couldn't be an evil vampire image. It's not about other people's perception of my character, it's about my perception of my character.  Some people just PLAY that way. No matter what game that's just how some people are. I say ARE because I see it either as an extension of who they are or a part of themselves they supress. Maybe it makes them feel good to be bad I dunno.

    the poster formerly known as melangel :P

  • SythionSythion Member Posts: 422

    Depends on the quality of the interactions.

    The only games I've felt I've been able to project myself into has been Black Isle and Bioware games.

    Other than that I just play a very shallow role. "Oh, I'm going to be the Jedi who is good but flirts with girls."

    image
  • makkaalmakkaal Member Posts: 48



    Originally posted by melangel
    I understand you. Alter ego definately :) Such as my more adventurous self. If you've ever written stories, it's the same sort of concept of projecting either yourself into one of your characters or someone you know well. I understand what you are saying and I really contemplated saying both 1 and 2 because I think, you are very much right about that.

    I'm actually currently working on a novel. I'm very cautious about inserting myself into the story, however - from experience of a friend of mine, that can turn out pretty badly in terms of writing quality (unless of course you're only writing for the fun of it)...
     



    Originally posted by Boatsmate
    I always wonder which type the players  who are very interested in ,"Can you be evil?" in games are. Are these the people who rudley shove their car in front of yours at a parking place ? Or is it really mild-mannered people acting out a fantasy of being the opposite of their real personalities?

     
    From my experience, it's the latter. Games are a method of playing out, well, virtual realities, and one of those can be an alternative where you're evil - a parallel universe where you can "enjoy" all the things you've kept yourself from doing, be it because society prohibited it (and you're simply a social kind of guy) or because you fear the consequences.



    Originally posted by MindTrigger
    I don't think either one of these perspectives is wrong, but they can be very, very different ways of playing the game.  What you describe is very much like creating a character, creating a story for that character, and then living that character's life through the game world.  I've done this on occasion, though I still usually just play my characters as me.  ...  I can see how others would, and there's nothing at all wrong with it.
    To be clear, there are a lot of people who play MMOs that do so in a very disconnected manner from others.  I would consider you connected more like I consider myself.  The other school of thought it almost a disconnection of sorts.  I think this is especially true of people who play these games as if they were a spreadsheet of numbers to be exploited and used.  I think this is where terms like "carebears" come from.  Those people who would use such a term probably have little or no emotional extension into the game other than the competetive aspects.

    So very true. While I don't think we're discussing right or wrong here (is there a "wrong" way of playing games, apart from breaking rules, that is?), your classifications are fine, I believe. They are crude, yes, but that's why there's the option of writing a post, right?
    What I'm referring to, though, is in my eyes the pure definition of RPG, the role-playing game. I'm playing a role, meaning I'm representing a fictional entity within a confined, virtual universe. Whether this entity is described through my actions, my words or a digitally produced avatar doesn't matter in this context.

    Funnily enough, I almost never RP in MMOs, even if there are RP servers. The games just never give me enough leeway to express the traits that I would give my character. That is my kind of disconnection.

    I believe your observation on (dis)connection is actually a matter of levels of immersion, or just different variants of it.

    Let me point out that, in fact, I couldn't care less about these first world problems. I'm just having fun.

  • JaedorJaedor Member UncommonPosts: 1,173

    I voted in the poll as someone who projects a bit of self into my avatars, but like others have said, that's not exactly or entirely correct.

     

    I never forget I'm looking through a window (monitor) into a world of pixels. But I can also relax and enjoy the virtual world someone has spent a lot of time and energy creating. If I connect with the game, then I'm likely to invest a lot of time and energy in my avatar.

     

    One of the things I noticed early on about MMOs is that they are great mirrors. We get to be anonymous and can play out fantasies of every kind, yet our personal habits and biases show through all the time. Not so easy to take the person out of the avatar and vice versa. Fun stuff to contemplate. :)

  • makkaalmakkaal Member Posts: 48

    Originally posted by Jaedor

    ...

    I never forget I'm looking through a window (monitor) into a world of pixels. ... 

    One of the things I noticed early on about MMOs is that they are great mirrors. We get to be anonymous and can play out fantasies of every kind, yet our personal habits and biases show through all the time. Not so easy to take the person out of the avatar and vice versa. Fun stuff to contemplate. :)

    Exactly my point. Immersion in this case isn't broken by mere technological boundaries, such as a monitor - if you're excited by the events a character in a book experiences you wouldn't say "I'm forgetting where I am", you're still imagining the story, the looks, the voices. You're sharing the protagonist's emotions, you're immersed

    It's the same with games. But when I say my character isn't myself but more, it's what you said in your last paragraph - I experience a different "me". Very nice way of putting it, Jaedor.

    Let me point out that, in fact, I couldn't care less about these first world problems. I'm just having fun.

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504

    I guess I view the parts of the game for what they really are.  My actions and chat are really me, but the character clearly isn't me.  So I voted "puppet master".

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • Asuran24Asuran24 Member Posts: 517

    Originally posted by melangel

    Originally posted by Boatsmate

    I always wonder which type the players  who are very interested in ,"Can you be evil?" in games are. Are these the people who rudley shove their car in front of yours at a parking place ? Or is it really mild-mannered people acting out a fantasy of being the opposite of their real personalities?

    I don't want to dominate this whole thread here but I think you bring up a very good question. I asked myself this recently in regards to the idea of playing World of Darkness MMO. Since I know how I am when I play, I didn't think I could possibly play a character that was so violent and so alien to my nature. But then I realised it was a matter of perspective really though my son was the one who helped me realise that. I told him I liked the game but didn't feel I could just randomly kill people for no reason. He said, listen to what you just said keeping in mind you play games and tell me how silly that sounds. So I thought about it and realised he's right. I'm a gamer and  am quite happily to kill xyz mob to get a piece of cloth to sew a hat. I'm not really sure how noble a reason that is if I think about it. Not very if I'm honest. So I read up about it and began to see that doing the same act but for the sake of survival is something else entirely. So now I can have some empathy for the situation and empathy isn't an emotion that is alien to me in real life. Small connection to self, but connection none the less.  You ask, Can you be evil? I couldn't be an evil vampire image. It's not about other people's perception of my character, it's about my perception of my character.  Some people just PLAY that way. No matter what game that's just how some people are. I say ARE because I see it either as an extension of who they are or a part of themselves they supress. Maybe it makes them feel good to be bad I dunno.

    I know what you mean as when i played the PNP WOD game i played several of the clans, and the clan i synced with the best was the fiends, and they are largely one of the most alien clans in the vampire culture. Though i also came to understand that good and evil are very perspectively based, and so as you said it is not how you are viewed by the world, but by how you view yourself that matters. I have always thought that many people are only preceved as being evil, and in truth are acting in a noble as well as good fashion based on their own perception of what they are doing. I would ask not if you can be evil, but if you can fathom that to some you will be seen as evil instead. Saddly i could not vote as i play as well as function as those, based on the many levels of the way i play in games, from guild actions, to group play, and even in role playing they all are different ways of me relating to the game as well as character.

  • EmwynEmwyn Member Posts: 546

    Originally posted by Asuran24

    I know what you mean as when i played the PNP WOD game i played several of the clans, and the clan i synced with the best was the fiends, and they are largely one of the most alien clans in the vampire culture. Though i also came to understand that good and evil are very perspectively based, and so as you said it is not how you are viewed by the world, but by how you view yourself that matters. I have always thought that many people are only preceved as being evil, and in truth are acting in a noble as well as good fashion based on their own perception of what they are doing. I would ask not if you can be evil, but if you can fathom that to some you will be seen as evil instead. Saddly i could not vote as i play as well as function as those, based on the many levels of the way i play in games, from guild actions, to group play, and even in role playing they all are different ways of me relating to the game as well as character.

     I can't just answer that off the top of my head. I'll have to think about it.  BUT I think it's a super question. Definately food for thought!

    P.S. Just as a side note, I have never joined an RP guild. I've thought about it but ones who have approached me in the past have had way too much structure for me. Which is why I don't like themeparks much also. I've played on RP servers and non RP servers and  I play the same way on either server.

    the poster formerly known as melangel :P

  • BartDaCatBartDaCat Member UncommonPosts: 813

    Now this is a fun thread.

    I've never been much for getting into a particular game's rule set for "role playing", but given the two scenarios that the original poster presented, I'd say that I'm a combination of the two, given only those two choices to work from.

    Considering the plethora of games that use the (to coin a term) "themepark" model, I tend to look at the templates (classes) I'm given, come up with a concept of what sort of character would be that particular class, and I breathe life into them. In other words, I seek out a personaility to enliven them with. This would probably be some unconscious extension of myself, if I saw myself as that particular class/role.

    For example, when I created a warlock in World of Warcraft, I used the Warcraft lore as a reference, and made my warlock an Orc. I wanted him to be tainted by the demonic influences that had originally corrupted the Orcs on their home world, but still work within the confines of a Horde faction that was straying away from being a part of the Burning Legion.

    I gave my warlock dark skin, a forked beard, and red, glowing eyes. Then I chose a name that was heavily influenced by pre-existing characters from Warcraft lore, primarily Ner'Zhul and Gul'Dan, the first Orcs swayed by Kil'Jaeden on Draenor.

     

     

     

     

     

    Images of Ner'Zhul courtesy of WoW-Wiki.

    As my warlock progressed in levels, I made sure to find ways to keep his countenance somewhat in the realm of "evil" and "corrupted".  If there was a mount that exuded a dark aura or looked particularly menacing, I'd aquire it and ride it.  I'd seek out weapons and off-hand items that fit his overall character, and try to use them for as long as I could without gimping my character, mainly for appearance.

    When I played my warlock, I'd work my hardest to find the best rotations and class builds in order to make his name stand out in prominence on our server, because I wanted him to be known for his destructive prowess.  If I went up against another player's warlock and they bested me in PvP (or DPS if they were of the same faction), I'd be sure to be respectful, and contact them for advice on their build for new ideas.

    In this way, I rose my character to notoriety, and if I joined pick-up groups on my server, they would invite me without question because they trusted that I knew how to play.

    This is but one example of how I bring my characters to life in the MMOGs that I play.

    I try to envision what sort of person that character would be, and ask myself: What would they look like?  What sort of name speaks to other players and tells them, "That name suits that class"?  What theme would their wardrobe follow to embody everything that the character is about?

    I feel that if I'm going to invest a considerable amount of time into a character in a MMOG, then I'm going to find a way to enjoy my escapism to the fullest extent.  However, I don't necessarily follow the conventions of true "role play" by speaking as that character.  In this way, there is still a part of myself that people relate to, but everything that goes into creating my character for that particular game is derived from a template given to me by the game, and the source of my own imagination.

     

  • makkaalmakkaal Member Posts: 48

    Originally posted by Asuran24



    I know what you mean as when i played the PNP WOD game i played several of the clans, and the clan i synced with the best was the fiends, and they are largely one of the most alien clans in the vampire culture.

    Oh, sweet exoticism. Another major reason for roleplaying. Experience something you'll never know.

    Though i also came to understand that good and evil are very perspectively based, and so as you said it is not how you are viewed by the world, but by how you view yourself that matters.

    At least that's what you get with good fiction. Or good storytelling in general. Having a thought out motivation for your story's adversary is a huge quality enhancer for any plot, and a thought out motivation usually means "there's no black and white"/"nobody is truly evil".

    I have always thought that many people are only preceved as being evil, and in truth are acting in a noble as well as good fashion based on their own perception of what they are doing. I would ask not if you can be evil, but if you can fathom that to some you will be seen as evil instead. [...]

    When did this become a discussion about ethics? I love this! Such a pity it's so late over here.

    Let me point out that, in fact, I couldn't care less about these first world problems. I'm just having fun.

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