I find it strange that someone would complain about wraping up a few slow invention century's but seem having no problem whit ELF only games whit creatures and magic that never ever exsisted at all and is all compleetly made up and have no consistend background at all but what the writer of the game Made Up.
Because it's not about how fantastical the idea is, it is about creating a believable internal logic to easily enable the willing suspension of disbelief.
Elves can be completely true to this internal logic, but rocket boots might not be.
And I thought it was only me who has issues with this. I totally agree with OP, there is no coherent theme in ArcheAge, and I don't like it. I can live with the asian cute avatars but seeing a guy in berumuda shorts beside a knight in full armor just does not do it for me. Sorry.
And the Japan comment. Classic. Reminds me of a famous german footbal player, Matthaeus, who once said: "Milano or Madrid, the main thing is Italy".
I find it strange that someone would complain about wraping up a few slow invention century's but seem having no problem whit ELF only games whit creatures and magic that never ever exsisted at all and is all compleetly made up and have no consistend background at all but what the writer of the game Made Up.
Because it's not about how fantastical the idea is, it is about creating a believable internal logic to easily enable the willing suspension of disbelief.
Elves can be completely true to this internal logic, but rocket boots might not be.
the how is AA's world not true to that "rule" its more complicated then a simple Elfen world but its got its own timeline of inventions, its Not EARTH. it got its own creatures, it got magic, and it got a power scource that enables the use of "machines"
it uses low tech that we have seen used in europe and asia in the early century's and seen used togetter whit older tech.
sure making a "tank" is a bit streching, but nothing great minds in the past have tought of, ours were just horse powered, in AA they got two powerscources, the fuel Akium and the Magic in the world so thier "evolution" would go diferent.
The whole "problem" brought op in this thread about "a believable internal logic to easily enable the willing suspension of disbelief" Might say more about the lack of fantasie and open mind to other posiblity's of sertain players then about the "quality" of world building by the game company.
Its proably like whit movies, some can only handle simple and mindless movies like Amarican Pie or Project X and others like 12monkeys, moon and Magnolia
I find it strange that someone would complain about wraping up a few slow invention century's but seem having no problem whit ELF only games whit creatures and magic that never ever exsisted at all and is all compleetly made up and have no consistend background at all but what the writer of the game Made Up.
Because it's not about how fantastical the idea is, it is about creating a believable internal logic to easily enable the willing suspension of disbelief.
Elves can be completely true to this internal logic, but rocket boots might not be.
the how is AA's world not true to that "rule" its more complicated then a simple Elfen world but its got its own timeline of inventions, its Not EARTH. it got its own creatures, it got magic, and it got a power scource that enables the use of "machines"
I think you are missing the point I made.
The whole "problem" brought op in this thread about "a believable internal logic to easily enable the willing suspension of disbelief" Might say more about the lack of fantasie and open mind to other posiblity's of sertain players then about the "quality" of world building by the game company.
Why so touchy and defensive? Really... accusing others of being narrow minded? Not a great way to feed a discussion tbh:/
especially seeing as you have mised to pioint that I made.
Having an internal logic and creating a coherent whole that dosen't shock people out of their willing disbelief has nothing to do with limiting fantasy in any way, as I even acknowledged.
AA takes it a bit further by mixing alot of 14th-18th century togetter as is normal in games, I find it strange that someone would complain about wraping up a few slow invention century's but seem having no problem whit ELF only games whit creatures and magic that never ever exsisted at all and is all compleetly made up and have no consistend background at all but what the writer of the game Made Up.
It's not strange at all.
"elf only" games or whatever fantasy trope one wants to use is easier to swallow precisely because it doesn't exist. There is less of a tug on the logic centers becasue you have to disregard so much to accept magic worlds.
But technology based in reality is something that we do know about.
There is a huge difference between the feel of the 14th centurty and the 18th century.
Don't get me started on the disco stuff.
Still, the game world works because it is supposed to be a hodge podge of ideas. IT still feels wrong but I"m not going to lose sleep over it.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Alot of Asian IP's are like this, they take a very broad romanticised version of real things/places/era's and mash them.
For instance, the popular anime D.Gray Man seems to be set in the 1800's, yet they have giant robots and giant demon robots that consume souls as their powersource, but they still use the oldchool 1800's telephones. Sounds realy dumb and lame right? Watch the anime and you'll change your mind, if you actually like anime in the first place that is.
There is prob better examples than that, but that was the first thing that came to mind.
You are misinformed and need to educate yourself, oh sorry, my mistake these aren't the GW2 forums and we can admit to imperfections, I agree it's one of the games minus points, I aim to try and ignore it as best I can when I play.
Yes, keep thinking those happy thoughts when the trolls come for you too, spreading falsehoods and innuendo like a farmer spreads manure. Enjoy this quiet period of relative obscurity. You will have your zen detachment tested when the drooling asshats finally turn in your direction.
By the way, thank you for bringing up GW2 in this unrelated thread. You see, it's not just the ignorant fanbois who can't prevent themselves from bringing the game up where it has no business.
Historically the introduction of a new technology did not immediately completely replace earlier things.
Gunpowder, caused major changes, yes. But it took hundreds of years before it replaced the swords, spears and lances. Cannons existed alongside catapults, often because the cannons had to be moved to a new site, the catapults and trebuchets could be built on site. Catapults and Bows and Swords were cheap to produce and easy to maintain, gunpowder was rare difficult and dangerous to manufacture until much later.
Personally I dislike the steam tractor, but hey, if I can suspend disbelief long enough to accept Magic, walking and talking Cats (Ferres), trees being grown in a few days and a mount that is an animated temple statue, well then, I can hope to stretch it a little bit futher.
And I thought it was only me who has issues with this. I totally agree with OP, there is no coherent theme in ArcheAge, and I don't like it. I can live with the asian cute avatars but seeing a guy in berumuda shorts beside a knight in full armor just does not do it for me. Sorry.
And the Japan comment. Classic. Reminds me of a famous german footbal player, Matthaeus, who once said: "Milano or Madrid, the main thing is Italy".
That right there...summed up my whole point. Its little things, that arn't game effecting... but little things.
Some games can pull it off really well (like FFXIV). Other games do it moderately okay (TERA), and then there are games like ArcheAge and Guild Wars 2, where the theme is VERY inconsistent.
ArcheAge should have stuck to its guns (or not as the case may be) and kept it fantasy, instead of butchering the genre. I feel like they incorporated all these features badly, and decided at the last minute they were going to go steampunk. It does feel pretty ridiculous how half the things are steam-powered and electrical and the other half not. It makes no sense.
Guild Wars 2 is even worse though. When you look at TERA and FFXIV, they have high-tech cultures too, but it all meshes well together and there doesnt really seem like a lot of conflict between high and low tech cultures.
I love ArcheAge, but OP is definitely right to voice concerns about this. The devs really went overboard in this aspect.
The whole concept of steampunk/magic games is that half of it should work on steam while the other half aint. all books , all games using steampunk have somekind of fraction thats against the steam part and uses only magic, be it a "playable" fraction or a "npc" fraction.
I would also like to remind people of REAL history, there was a time we used cannons AND catapults, there was a time we used Guns AND Swords, there was a time we couldd Dive using big heavy metal helmets and still used wooden ships, (those metal diving helmets are not 1950's , they are more 1850's :P ) and diving helemts have bin used since before diving bells, those apeared around 16th century.
1832 Netherlands
AA takes it a bit further by mixing alot of 14th-18th century togetter as is normal in games, I find it strange that someone would complain about wraping up a few slow invention century's but seem having no problem whit ELF only games whit creatures and magic that never ever exsisted at all and is all compleetly made up and have no consistend background at all but what the writer of the game Made Up.
Damn. Beat me to the punch, and quite eloquently too.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
I find the use of guns an issue in the standard combat mechanic(especially when they replace bows and arrows) i.e. standing 3 inches from someone and shooting them in the face for 10mins. Am not saying there are guns here btw.
But will wait and see how it plays ingame before i know if the things said (and possibly others)are an issue or not.
i only say one thing, fantasy can be anything and with anything, until you pick a era or time where you are going to plant it, otherwise there is no rules and you either accept that fact or not not.
i do understand your views about diving helmets and tractors versus swords. but thats just how they build their own fantasy world.
I understand what you mean.Its kind of like getting out of a state of the art helicopter that has the capabilities of taking over a small country and attacking zombies with a sledge hammer dressed like your going for a stroll on the beach.
Or leaving your space ship armed with a sword or using laser weapons that fire amunition that moves slower than 17th century musket bullets and you can actually see them and move out of the way.
Thats what all fantasy fiction mmo are about,we are not on planet earth my friend.
But when you ground it in planet earth tech..but then say it isn't earth.. thats where we have problems (imo)
I mean starwars works because its totaly not in our universe/world, and yes they have "swords" but unless you have this mythical super power (the force) then the swords is completely useless against guns. (makes sence)
And take Lord of the Rings for instance, its totaly a fantasy world, magic, dwarfs, hobbits..talking trees etc. BUT if frodo was in american eagle plaid shorts while on the way to mordor wouldn't that kinda ruin it? I mean its a fantasy world...so they can do whatever they want, but it just doesn't feel right.
The whole concept of steampunk/magic games is that half of it should work on steam while the other half aint. all books , all games using steampunk have somekind of fraction thats against the steam part and uses only magic, be it a "playable" fraction or a "npc" fraction.
I would also like to remind people of REAL history, there was a time we used cannons AND catapults, there was a time we used Guns AND Swords, there was a time we couldd Dive using big heavy metal helmets and still used wooden ships, (those metal diving helmets are not 1950's , they are more 1850's :P ) and diving helemts have bin used since before diving bells, those apeared around 16th century.
1832 Netherlands
AA takes it a bit further by mixing alot of 14th-18th century togetter as is normal in games, I find it strange that someone would complain about wraping up a few slow invention century's but seem having no problem whit ELF only games whit creatures and magic that never ever exsisted at all and is all compleetly made up and have no consistend background at all but what the writer of the game Made Up.
Just for Kicks I googled "1950's dive helmet"
this is one of the first pics
Now a pic I got from the yogscast eps. 6 video on Archeage
Not to mention the water-proof electric flashlight that is attached to said helmet. I dunno, to me it just doesn't work with the chainmale.
It doesn't dirsturb me ... yet ... i would love to be able to form an opinion about that SOON.
Any one seen suckerpunch? ... bunch of styles mixed ...
I don't think people are understanding 'internal logic' here at all.
The mash up of genres in Sucker Punch works because it follows it's own internal rules of the 'reality' it portrays... it isn't random, it follows and is true to it's own logic.
What the OP is aying that bothers him is the same as watching Game of Thrones and seeing an extra in bermuda shorts, wearing a fruit hat, and riding a space hopper bounce through one of the scenes.
Obviously this would make the majority say 'WTF??', because GoT has it's own internal truths, as every fantasy narrative needs to have, and that inclusion would betray them.
If AA's lore explains and rationalises all of it's inconsistences from the start, then a guy in scuba gear with a bucket on his head at a nightclub is absolutely fine, but if it dosen't... if it presents itself and tells it's lore as epic 'serious' tradtional high fantasy and makes no effort to accomodate the more eccentric parts of it's content... Then many will have an issue with that as the 'WTF??' moments continously jar them out of their immersion.
It doesn't dirsturb me ... yet ... i would love to be able to form an opinion about that SOON.
Any one seen suckerpunch? ... bunch of styles mixed ...
I don't think people are understanding 'internal logic' here at all.
The mash up of genres in Sucker Punch works because it follows it's own internal rules of the 'reality' it portrays... it isn't random, it follows and is true to it's own logic.
What the OP is aying that bothers him is the same as watching Game of Thrones and seeing an extra in bermuda shorts, wearing a fruit hat, and riding a space hopper bounce through one of the scenes.
Obviously this would make the majority say 'WTF??', because GoT has it's own internal truths, as every fantasy narrative needs to have, and that inclusion would betray them.
If AA's lore explains and rationalises all of it's inconsistences from the start, then a guy in scuba gear with a bucket on his head at a nightclub is absolutely fine, but if it dosen't... if it presents itself and tells it's lore as epic 'serious' tradtional high fantasy and makes no effort to accomodate the more eccentric parts of it's content... Then many will have an issue with that as the 'WTF??' moments continously jar them out of their immersion.
While I sympathize with those who are concerned about the lack of theme or the inmersion breaking elements; at the end of the day the only things that matter to me are:
Open world
Sand-box elements
Everything else, I can live with.
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
While I sympathize with those who are concerned about the lack of theme or the inmersion breaking elements; at the end of the day the only things that matter to me are:
Open world
Sand-box elements
Everything else, I can live with.
And this is why I still plan on buying the game. In the end its about people and gameplay.. BUT it'd be nice if there was a story line, with lore and a world to back it up.
Comments
Because it's not about how fantastical the idea is, it is about creating a believable internal logic to easily enable the willing suspension of disbelief.
Elves can be completely true to this internal logic, but rocket boots might not be.
And I thought it was only me who has issues with this. I totally agree with OP, there is no coherent theme in ArcheAge, and I don't like it. I can live with the asian cute avatars but seeing a guy in berumuda shorts beside a knight in full armor just does not do it for me. Sorry.
And the Japan comment. Classic. Reminds me of a famous german footbal player, Matthaeus, who once said: "Milano or Madrid, the main thing is Italy".
the how is AA's world not true to that "rule" its more complicated then a simple Elfen world but its got its own timeline of inventions, its Not EARTH. it got its own creatures, it got magic, and it got a power scource that enables the use of "machines"
it uses low tech that we have seen used in europe and asia in the early century's and seen used togetter whit older tech.
sure making a "tank" is a bit streching, but nothing great minds in the past have tought of, ours were just horse powered, in AA they got two powerscources, the fuel Akium and the Magic in the world so thier "evolution" would go diferent.
The whole "problem" brought op in this thread about "a believable internal logic to easily enable the willing suspension of disbelief" Might say more about the lack of fantasie and open mind to other posiblity's of sertain players then about the "quality" of world building by the game company.
Its proably like whit movies, some can only handle simple and mindless movies like Amarican Pie or Project X and others like 12monkeys, moon and Magnolia
It's not strange at all.
"elf only" games or whatever fantasy trope one wants to use is easier to swallow precisely because it doesn't exist. There is less of a tug on the logic centers becasue you have to disregard so much to accept magic worlds.
But technology based in reality is something that we do know about.
There is a huge difference between the feel of the 14th centurty and the 18th century.
Don't get me started on the disco stuff.
Still, the game world works because it is supposed to be a hodge podge of ideas. IT still feels wrong but I"m not going to lose sleep over it.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
then you will absolutely hate Otherland :=)
Alot of Asian IP's are like this, they take a very broad romanticised version of real things/places/era's and mash them.
For instance, the popular anime D.Gray Man seems to be set in the 1800's, yet they have giant robots and giant demon robots that consume souls as their powersource, but they still use the oldchool 1800's telephones. Sounds realy dumb and lame right? Watch the anime and you'll change your mind, if you actually like anime in the first place that is.
There is prob better examples than that, but that was the first thing that came to mind.
Yes, keep thinking those happy thoughts when the trolls come for you too, spreading falsehoods and innuendo like a farmer spreads manure. Enjoy this quiet period of relative obscurity. You will have your zen detachment tested when the drooling asshats finally turn in your direction.
By the way, thank you for bringing up GW2 in this unrelated thread. You see, it's not just the ignorant fanbois who can't prevent themselves from bringing the game up where it has no business.
Historically the introduction of a new technology did not immediately completely replace earlier things.
Gunpowder, caused major changes, yes. But it took hundreds of years before it replaced the swords, spears and lances. Cannons existed alongside catapults, often because the cannons had to be moved to a new site, the catapults and trebuchets could be built on site. Catapults and Bows and Swords were cheap to produce and easy to maintain, gunpowder was rare difficult and dangerous to manufacture until much later.
Personally I dislike the steam tractor, but hey, if I can suspend disbelief long enough to accept Magic, walking and talking Cats (Ferres), trees being grown in a few days and a mount that is an animated temple statue, well then, I can hope to stretch it a little bit futher.
That right there...summed up my whole point. Its little things, that arn't game effecting... but little things.
Please check out my channel. I do gaming reviews, gaming related reviews & lets plays. Thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/user/BettyofDewm/videos
Damn. Beat me to the punch, and quite eloquently too.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
It doesn't dirsturb me ... yet
... i would love to be able to form an opinion about that SOON.
Any one seen suckerpunch? ... bunch of styles mixed ...
Pure awesomeness ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChDoQaqhHL8&feature=related
I am strangely ok with my fantasy game not being realistic.
Shoot, even star wars has swords, vibroblades or lightsabers but they are still just swords of a kind.
All die, so die well.
I find the use of guns an issue in the standard combat mechanic(especially when they replace bows and arrows) i.e. standing 3 inches from someone and shooting them in the face for 10mins. Am not saying there are guns here btw.
But will wait and see how it plays ingame before i know if the things said (and possibly others)are an issue or not.
i only say one thing, fantasy can be anything and with anything, until you pick a era or time where you are going to plant it, otherwise there is no rules and you either accept that fact or not not.
i do understand your views about diving helmets and tractors versus swords. but thats just how they build their own fantasy world.
I understand what you mean.Its kind of like getting out of a state of the art helicopter that has the capabilities of taking over a small country and attacking zombies with a sledge hammer dressed like your going for a stroll on the beach.
Or leaving your space ship armed with a sword or using laser weapons that fire amunition that moves slower than 17th century musket bullets and you can actually see them and move out of the way.
But when you ground it in planet earth tech..but then say it isn't earth.. thats where we have problems (imo)
I mean starwars works because its totaly not in our universe/world, and yes they have "swords" but unless you have this mythical super power (the force) then the swords is completely useless against guns. (makes sence)
And take Lord of the Rings for instance, its totaly a fantasy world, magic, dwarfs, hobbits..talking trees etc. BUT if frodo was in american eagle plaid shorts while on the way to mordor wouldn't that kinda ruin it? I mean its a fantasy world...so they can do whatever they want, but it just doesn't feel right.
Please check out my channel. I do gaming reviews, gaming related reviews & lets plays. Thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/user/BettyofDewm/videos
Just for Kicks I googled "1950's dive helmet"
this is one of the first pics
Now a pic I got from the yogscast eps. 6 video on Archeage
Not to mention the water-proof electric flashlight that is attached to said helmet. I dunno, to me it just doesn't work with the chainmale.
Please check out my channel. I do gaming reviews, gaming related reviews & lets plays. Thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/user/BettyofDewm/videos
I don't think people are understanding 'internal logic' here at all.
The mash up of genres in Sucker Punch works because it follows it's own internal rules of the 'reality' it portrays... it isn't random, it follows and is true to it's own logic.
What the OP is aying that bothers him is the same as watching Game of Thrones and seeing an extra in bermuda shorts, wearing a fruit hat, and riding a space hopper bounce through one of the scenes.
Obviously this would make the majority say 'WTF??', because GoT has it's own internal truths, as every fantasy narrative needs to have, and that inclusion would betray them.
If AA's lore explains and rationalises all of it's inconsistences from the start, then a guy in scuba gear with a bucket on his head at a nightclub is absolutely fine, but if it dosen't... if it presents itself and tells it's lore as epic 'serious' tradtional high fantasy and makes no effort to accomodate the more eccentric parts of it's content... Then many will have an issue with that as the 'WTF??' moments continously jar them out of their immersion.
I will hire you to say what I am trying to say.
Please check out my channel. I do gaming reviews, gaming related reviews & lets plays. Thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/user/BettyofDewm/videos
While I sympathize with those who are concerned about the lack of theme or the inmersion breaking elements; at the end of the day the only things that matter to me are:
Open world
Sand-box elements
Everything else, I can live with.
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
And this is why I still plan on buying the game. In the end its about people and gameplay.. BUT it'd be nice if there was a story line, with lore and a world to back it up.
Please check out my channel. I do gaming reviews, gaming related reviews & lets plays. Thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/user/BettyofDewm/videos
If the themes are seperated logically by region it'll be much better IMO.
But if you can create a say Eastern themed player town in the middle of the medieval Europe themed region of the world, that'll be dissapointing.