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Guild Wars 2: Guild Wars 2 - Why World vs. World Will Rule

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,585MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

In The List today, we take a look back at the recent Guild Wars 2 beta weekend and the whole concept that Arena.Net is bringing to the genre with its World vs World system. We've got two full lists of what we think are the best features in WvW and what we perceive might cause some issues. Read on and then leave us your thoughts in the comments.

In our second chance to test Guild Wars 2 we got a good look at World vs. World PVP yet again. The gameplay in this area is fantastic for PvP lovers and when the game is launched the Eternal Battlegrounds will by far be the most populated zone in the game, at least that’s my guess. Here are several reasons why this system will be successful as both an endgame and progression system for Guild Wars 2.

Read more of Garrett Fuller's The List: Guild Wars 2 - Why World vs. World Will Rule.

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Comments

  • DarkPonyDarkPony RotterdamPosts: 5,566Member

    Over population is the biggest threat I guess, because WvW is by far the biggest appeal to GW2 in the pvp department. If I have to wait an hour before getting into WvW on my own server I'd be really frustrated. Really curious about what the player cap will be and how soon it will be reached on an average server.

    Another potential downside is the ability to buy Influence for gold and buy appealing guild boosts with that. This might give bigger and richer guilds another edge over members of smaller or poorer guilds.

     

  • KalferKalfer HappylandPosts: 779Member

    The best thing I can say about WvW is this - The developers have said from the beginning that it's imbalanced.

    What a great thing to say. To be able, as a creator to remove the pressure from yourself and just acknowledge that it's chaos. 

     

    Anyone who will cry foul or for the lack of fairness will be told to shush and deal with it. And that's exactly what we need. Because the average MMO gamer has become a crybaby who think that he/she is too good to die. No. You shall die and you shall die a lot.

    You shall try standing on the castle gates as you get swarmped by enemy invaders. But hopefully you shall also try sneaking into a keep, mounting a catapult, while destroying many enemies in glorious warfare. 

     

     

    Nothing like this (and not even DaoC or Planetside) will ever be perfect. Despite what nostalgia says, and both of those classic games eventually ran themselves into the ground, killing themselves in the end. People tend to forget that. 

     

    I see World Vs World as a social experiment. It's like the zoo keeper (ArenaNet) unleashed all the animals, and stuffed them into one big cage to see what would happen. That's what this is like. There is no right or wrong in the mist. There is only : have fun, and don't worry so much. 

  • JeauseoffJeauseoff Standish, MEPosts: 36Member

    Impressive... Most impressive...

  • CyclopsSlayerCyclopsSlayer Minneapolis, MNPosts: 532Member

    I agrre with most of your Pro's and Con's as is.

    For me though the biggest turn off is the total lack of cross team reputation. All my foes have to fear is a 'Red Invader', all I will see is a 'Green' or 'Blue'. No reputations to earn or lose. No names to spark fear and urge a response to swarm on.

    Secondly, Imbalances,  these always lead to optimized play, and if severe enough you will be pretty much be forced into X, Y or Z builds for WvW. Other builds need not apply,  Especially if the WvW population limit is significantly lower than the players trying to get in.

  • DauzqulDauzqul Detroit, MIPosts: 1,402Member Uncommon

    It's still ultimately just a dedicated area for PvP. Because of this, there is no element of surprise. Eveyrone who enters this zone will be expecting PvP. Predictible.

    I tire of such "dedicated areas", Warzones, Battlegrounds, etc. They make me want to vomit.



     

  • IkedaIkeda Largo, FLPosts: 2,204Member Uncommon

    Doesn't the rotation of overpopulation/underpopulation get somewhat reduced by the rotation of the WvWvW's?  So it's not always the same realms.

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  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,980Member Uncommon

    I have to agree, this aspect of GW2 is the most appealing thing about it for me and could override all other concerns I have about the title.

    I did see the comment that controlling objectives will impart great benefits for your server, and still wonder if this might incentive players to reroll (move their home server) over to those that tend to win more often than lose.

    Yeah, I know the accounts are server locked, but hey, odds are good they'll let you pay to move servers and if not, you can always buy another copy.

    All depends how "great" those server wide rewards really are.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by CyclopsSlay

    I agrre with most of your Pro's and Con's as is.

    For me though the biggest turn off is the total lack of cross team reputation. All my foes have to fear is a 'Red Invader', all I will see is a 'Green' or 'Blue'. No reputations to earn or lose. No names to spark fear and urge a response to swarm on.

    Secondly, Imbalances,  these always lead to optimized play, and if severe enough you will be pretty much be forced into X, Y or Z builds for WvW. Other builds need not apply,  Especially if the WvW population limit is significantly lower than the players trying to get in.

    You may not get names however you do get the clan tag abreviation so some good pvp clans people may fear seeing your clan abbriveation next to red invader.

  • DarkPonyDarkPony RotterdamPosts: 5,566Member

    Originally posted by sanshi44

    Originally posted by CyclopsSlay

    I agrre with most of your Pro's and Con's as is.

    For me though the biggest turn off is the total lack of cross team reputation. All my foes have to fear is a 'Red Invader', all I will see is a 'Green' or 'Blue'. No reputations to earn or lose. No names to spark fear and urge a response to swarm on.

    Secondly, Imbalances,  these always lead to optimized play, and if severe enough you will be pretty much be forced into X, Y or Z builds for WvW. Other builds need not apply,  Especially if the WvW population limit is significantly lower than the players trying to get in.

    You may not get names however you do get the clan tag abreviation so some good pvp clans people may fear seeing your clan abbriveation next to red invader.


     

    I hope you can pick [Friendly] as tag.

  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by DarkPony



    Originally posted by sanshi44






    Originally posted by CyclopsSlay





    I agrre with most of your Pro's and Con's as is.





    For me though the biggest turn off is the total lack of cross team reputation. All my foes have to fear is a 'Red Invader', all I will see is a 'Green' or 'Blue'. No reputations to earn or lose. No names to spark fear and urge a response to swarm on.





    Secondly, Imbalances,  these always lead to optimized play, and if severe enough you will be pretty much be forced into X, Y or Z builds for WvW. Other builds need not apply,  Especially if the WvW population limit is significantly lower than the players trying to get in.

    You may not get names however you do get the clan tag abreviation so some good pvp clans people may fear seeing your clan abbriveation next to red invader.






     

    I hope you can pick [Friendly] as tag.

    3 letter for the tag

  • DarkPonyDarkPony RotterdamPosts: 5,566Member

    Originally posted by sanshi44

    I hope you can pick [Friendly] as tag.

    3 letter for the tag

    Hmmff ok.

    V_V

     

  • Zeus.CMZeus.CM ZagrebPosts: 1,788Member

    Tired of doing personal story? Go into open and explore dynamic events? Tired of those too? Go into WvW and experience the thrill of chaos. Tired of chaos? Jump right into competitive PvP and improve your killing and tactic skills in this fast paced PvP matches. Got tired again? Go hang out with players in huge and beautiful capital cities.

  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by thedarkess

    Tired of doing personal story? Go into open and explore dynamic events? Tired of those too? Go into WvW and experience the thrill of chaos. Tired of chaos? Jump right into competitive PvP and improve your killing and tactic skills in this fast paced PvP matches. Got tired again? Go hang out with players in huge and beautiful capital cities.

    Got tired of that go do some exploration, got tired of that go do some of the many achivments : P

  • ProfRedProfRed Duluth, GAPosts: 3,511Member

    I can't express how much I love this system.

    In Guild Wars I liked going through the story once.  In SWTOR I liked going through story once.  I don't want to be forced in a Themepark game to roll alts and repeat story content just to get a different class flavor.

    What this system allows me to do is this:

    Have one main story character to experience the story, and to get items for all others characters.

    Have one of each other class that lives in the Eternal Battlegrounds. 

    That gives me one of each class from level 1 bumped up to 80 stats for instant PvP/WvWvW action on demand and lets me advance them while doing it. 

    This is such a brilliant system I can't even explain how long it will keep me playing this game.  Well actually I can...  At least as long as it takes to get every class from 1-80 in Eternal Battlegrounds, and one of them from 1-80 in the story.  That will be a long time...



     

  • IllyssiaIllyssia LondonPosts: 1,524Member

    Originally posted by mmoDAD

    It's still ultimately just a dedicated area for PvP. Because of this, there is no element of surprise. Eveyrone who enters this zone will be expecting PvP. Predictible.

    I tire of such "dedicated areas", Warzones, Battlegrounds, etc. They make me want to vomit.










     

    The PvP zone has really had its day. Noboday has ever made it work. WvWvW is also nothing really new. Any RvR style of game is always going to have problems with population balance between the factions, it just never really works out. And before people say DAoC, well folks thats run by Bioware now, and they didn't use that system for SWTOR as it has too many problems.   Major porblem is lvl 1+ being in the PvP. As we all know from SWTOR stat boostong never works out. 

  • Zeus.CMZeus.CM ZagrebPosts: 1,788Member

    Originally posted by sanshi44

    Originally posted by thedarkess

    Tired of doing personal story? Go into open and explore dynamic events? Tired of those too? Go into WvW and experience the thrill of chaos. Tired of chaos? Jump right into competitive PvP and improve your killing and tactic skills in this fast paced PvP matches. Got tired again? Go hang out with players in huge and beautiful capital cities.

    Got tired of that go do some exploration, got tired of that go do some of the many achivments : P

    got tired of that too and feel like doing some bussiness? Go to trading post or auction house and make some cash :P

  • GreyedGreyed Sin City, NVPosts: 128Member
    You missed one. No overlevelling content thanks to auto downlevelling.

    Not just another pretty color.
    image

  • leon09leon09 Posts: 30Member Uncommon

    Im not to worried about overpopulation / queues, as i see no reason they cannot use there 'overflow' servers idea for this world to as they said they will for the pve world.

    Only thing with the overflow system, i guess it cannot effect your servers bonus as the live servers have different action going on to what is happening in the overflow. But still being able to get the WvWvW experience while waiting to get into the live server will be awesome.

    It is one thing i am really looking forward to in GW2, they really get that having your customers stuck in a queue for hours isnt a good thing and i cant wait to see this overflow system in practice.

  • GreyedGreyed Sin City, NVPosts: 128Member

    You missed the best part.  No outleveling content thanks to the automatic downleveling.  It is no longer a choice of PvP or PvE.  You PvP, gain a few levels, go back to PvE and it is still relevant and challenging.

    Outside of CoH and EQ2 with their refuse XP toggle no other MMO can boast that.

    Not just another pretty color.
    image

  • AmjocoAmjoco Layton, UTPosts: 4,777Member Uncommon

    I'm very, very excited to play. I love the siege aspect of any game like War and DAoC. I was at first concenrned about the time it takes for the battle being 2 weeks. I remember when WoW had the Alterac Valley weekend shoving matches when a BG could last more than 2 days.  Although that was merely a shoving match this will be epic on a grand scale!  The time is growing nearer for some face punching PvP but not fast enough. :)

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • VaultarVaultar adelaidePosts: 339Member

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Over population is the biggest threat I guess, because WvW is by far the biggest appeal to GW2 in the pvp department. If I have to wait an hour before getting into WvW on my own server I'd be really frustrated. Really curious about what the player cap will be and how soon it will be reached on an average server.

    Another potential downside is the ability to buy Influence for gold and buy appealing guild boosts with that. This might give bigger and richer guilds another edge over members of smaller or poorer guilds.

     

    That is what I worry about too Pony :(.

    Looking forward to EQL and EQN.

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member

     

    1) Population:

    Source Populations from each server needs to be as large as possible; balance of in/out turn-over of players interacting in world pvp per server. Not sure how time per day will affect the WvWvW populations? Assume regions will handle this?



    • Action: Reshuffle of suitable servers

    1) Chaos:

    Dynamic Equilibrium vs Static State: Design of maps needs to create as much unpredictable and non-stable strategies for winning points assuming population levels don't fall off extremes.



    • Action: ArenaNet will need to track player movements (density) and possibly tweek/tune the map/objs to "undam" stable states.


    • Prediction: Relationships of objectives will have to be checked as will topography of maps.


    Given there are 3 factions, all classes on all sides and siege weapons, large population pools (full servers!), matching of servers, the rest is all in place to make WvWvW very interesting for those that want to make this their 1st game system and for those that are more 2nd/3rd for this.


     


    Conclusion: Should be highly likely that players can tier their interest in WvWvW and that this competition of interests of players invovled in WvWvW should be very beneficial to the emergent game play. image

     

  • bill4747bill4747 Lynn, MAPosts: 202Member



    Originally posted by CyclopsSlay

    For me though the biggest turn off is the total lack of cross team reputation. All my foes have to fear is a 'Red Invader', all I will see is a 'Green' or 'Blue'. No reputations to earn or lose. No names to spark fear and urge a response to swarm on.

     Something I was thinking about on that point;

    If there are 30 servers, for example, you will see the same enemies each time the servers are matched up. Not the same as always the same enemy, but you should see them fairly often.

    I am guessing the servers are matched up based on population, so you might end up seeing the same few enemy servers. Maybe.



     

  • Master10KMaster10K LondonPosts: 3,065Member

    Originally posted by leon09

    Im not to worried about overpopulation / queues, as i see no reason they cannot use there 'overflow' servers idea for this world to as they said they will for the pve world.

    Only thing with the overflow system, i guess it cannot effect your servers bonus as the live servers have different action going on to what is happening in the overflow. But still being able to get the WvWvW experience while waiting to get into the live server will be awesome.

    It is one thing i am really looking forward to in GW2, they really get that having your customers stuck in a queue for hours isnt a good thing and i cant wait to see this overflow system in practice.

    ArenaNet have already said that the Overflow Servers only relate to the PvE Server and not the WvW Server, because it wouldn't make sense if it did. I will not waste my time trying to find the exact quote, just take my word for it.

     

    But as for me I can't wait, because I've never had the chance to experience this kind of large-scale PvP. DAoC is old as hell and WAR is broken and meh~ So yeah... can't wait to experience so of this.

    image

  • VinterkrigVinterkrig BOSTON, MAPosts: 1,672Member

    the #1 reason is why this game is being purchased by me, and is why i loved daoc rvr ... my 8 man running all over random terrain .. trying to get the jump, etc.. should be good times, i'm jealous i'm not in the beta

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