And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. Those days are gone.
Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.
Since loot isn't central and quest hubs don't exist, it seems to me you might like GW2 a little more than some of the recent MMORPGs.
Where do you get the quests?
there's a personal story that you can follow which would be more of the questing mmo type deal, but the rest of the game you can pretty much stumble upon DE's and heart around the world, dont ever have to pick up a quest to join in. however there are people that will point you in the right direction and that you can talk to to get a little more info on the situation of you so choose
I would say story mode is more like doing instances from what I've seen. You do talk to people and run around and advance the main story quest, but they seem to lead to dungeons. They certainly aren't quest hubs at all.
And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. Those days are gone.
Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.
Since loot isn't central and quest hubs don't exist, it seems to me you might like GW2 a little more than some of the recent MMORPGs.
Where do you get the quests?
They just pop up on the screen when you explore for them in the world. No one gives them to you.
Actually, there are a some quest givers in the world that ask you to bring them X number of items.
And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. Those days are gone.
Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.
Since loot isn't central and quest hubs don't exist, it seems to me you might like GW2 a little more than some of the recent MMORPGs.
Where do you get the quests?
They just pop up on the screen when you explore for them in the world. No one gives them to you.
That's true, but wasn't the case in GW1. It's still a themepark though and calling an open world is misleading at best.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. Those days are gone.
Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.
Since loot isn't central and quest hubs don't exist, it seems to me you might like GW2 a little more than some of the recent MMORPGs.
Where do you get the quests?
They just pop up on the screen when you explore for them in the world. No one gives them to you.
That's true, but wasn't the case in GW1. It's still a themepark though and calling an open world is misleading at best.
I think if you consider Skyrim an open world, you would consider GW2 an open world. At least from what I've seen. And by my definition, Skyrim is an open world.
Certainly is doesn't compare in how advanced the NPCs are and whatnot, but just when it comes to zoning and things, it's an open world.
I'm guessing you know this already, but this game is nothing like GW1 when it comes to instancing.
This whole discussion seems awkward to me. I can think of like maybe 2 games in PC gaming history that did not have loading screens. Loading screens are a normal part of MMORPG gaming not a rarity. Seems to me there is a few people who think that game companies should have moved past the era of load screens and moved foreward but they have an almost ignorant knowledge of game design.
Creating worlds with no load screens severly taxes the resources required to operate a game. Zoneing allows for less load to be placed on tehs erver hardware and lowers the cost of running a MMORPG. There are other concerns that can go along with these thigns like maybe something in a particular zone bugs out, Zone data can be transferred to a backup server and keep running while developers fix the problem with no more then a simple zone crash and not have to bring down a whole server. Again these are just a few concerns and hurdles on the list when a developer debates about adding or dropping zoneing in the game, and there are far more that I dont really feel like trying to explain with my own limited knowledge.
In all fairness some people may really be so anal retentive that they need a zone free world to enjoy a game. But 99.9% of MMORPG gamers dont and have proven that through their loyalty to each individuals game of choice. But I think this is more of a last ditch effort to throw some mud at GW2, because Zoneing didn't seem to be a issue with releases of EQ, EQ2, WoW, Rift, Aion, WAR, LOTRO, SW:TOR, DCUO, CoH, AoC, STO, DDO, or any of the other countless MMORPGs out there with zoneing.
And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. Those days are gone.
Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.
Since loot isn't central and quest hubs don't exist, it seems to me you might like GW2 a little more than some of the recent MMORPGs.
Where do you get the quests?
They just pop up on the screen when you explore for them in the world. No one gives them to you.
That's true, but wasn't the case in GW1. It's still a themepark though and calling an open world is misleading at best.
I think if you consider Skyrim an open world, you would consider GW2 an open world. At least from what I've seen. And by my definition, Skyrim is an open world.
Certainly is doesn't compare in how advanced the NPCs are and whatnot, but just when it comes to zoning and things, it's an open world.
I'm guessing you know this already, but this game is nothing like GW1 when it comes to instancing.
So what are you saying, there's no town zoning like in GW1? Towns are instances, no?
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. Those days are gone.
Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.
Since loot isn't central and quest hubs don't exist, it seems to me you might like GW2 a little more than some of the recent MMORPGs.
Where do you get the quests?
They just pop up on the screen when you explore for them in the world. No one gives them to you.
That's true, but wasn't the case in GW1. It's still a themepark though and calling an open world is misleading at best.
That is because people are taking what they say out of context. Every time the term open world has come form a ANet mouth it is while describing the ability to wander the world as you wish and not being forced onto rails like we were in SW:TOR or WoW. You can literally just walk around and farm mobbs, or run dungeons all day, hunt for DE's, etc. etc....
Never once to my knowledge has the term open world been used by ANet to describe the way the zones are laid out in an attempt to make people think there is no zone lines.
And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. Those days are gone.
Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.
Since loot isn't central and quest hubs don't exist, it seems to me you might like GW2 a little more than some of the recent MMORPGs.
Where do you get the quests?
In Guild Wars 2 you don't get the quests. The quests get you.
Dynamic events happen in the world whether or not you're there to participate, the world doesn't care. You have the choice, as you come across these 1500+ events, to participate or not.
And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. Those days are gone.
Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.
Since loot isn't central and quest hubs don't exist, it seems to me you might like GW2 a little more than some of the recent MMORPGs.
Where do you get the quests?
They just pop up on the screen when you explore for them in the world. No one gives them to you.
That's true, but wasn't the case in GW1. It's still a themepark though and calling an open world is misleading at best.
That is because people are taking what they say out of context. Every time the term open world has come form a ANet mouth it is while describing the ability to wander the world as you wish and not being forced onto rails like we were in SW:TOR or WoW. You can literally just walk around and farm mobbs, or run dungeons all day, hunt for DE's, etc. etc....
Never once to my knowledge has the term open world been used by ANet to describe the way the zones are laid out in an attempt to make people think there is no zone lines.
Right, but you do have to zone from area to city to area, correct?
Also, the comparison of Skyrim to GW2 won't work unless you can travel the entire map without zoning if you so choose, which you can not in GW2, correct?
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Well, they are boasting GW2 as an open world, are they not? But yes, it is a themepark.
The problem is, game companies keep trying to pull in everyone by claiming the game is for everyone because it has everything which is a lie. Gamers may be gullable but they're not stupid, they're starting to figure this whole marketing charade out.
"Fool me once"...or in this case many times.
Not open world as in sandbox... open world as in persistent world where you're out there with everyone else. They've never tried to falsely claim they're a sandbox. What they are offering is your choice on how to experience the game... there's the PvE side, the WvW side (where you can completely level up, gear up, etc. if you wish) and the competitive PvP side (where you're boosted to 80, given full skill and gear access and placed on equal footing with all other competitive players).
Right, but you do have to zone from area to city to area, correct?
Also, the comparison of Skyrim to GW2 won't work unless you can travel the entire map without zoning if you so choose, which you can not in GW2, correct?
In Skyrim I have to zone to use the bathroom in my house... what's Skyrim have to do with anything?
Right, but you do have to zone from area to city to area, correct?
Also, the comparison of Skyrim to GW2 won't work unless you can travel the entire map without zoning if you so choose, which you can not in GW2, correct?
In Skyrim I have to zone to use the bathroom in my house... what's Skyrim have to do with anything?
Someone tried to compare Skyrim's open world to GW2, that's what. You can't travel the entire map in GW2 without zoning, correct?
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. Those days are gone.
Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.
Since loot isn't central and quest hubs don't exist, it seems to me you might like GW2 a little more than some of the recent MMORPGs.
Where do you get the quests?
They just pop up on the screen when you explore for them in the world. No one gives them to you.
That's true, but wasn't the case in GW1. It's still a themepark though and calling an open world is misleading at best.
That is because people are taking what they say out of context. Every time the term open world has come form a ANet mouth it is while describing the ability to wander the world as you wish and not being forced onto rails like we were in SW:TOR or WoW. You can literally just walk around and farm mobbs, or run dungeons all day, hunt for DE's, etc. etc....
Never once to my knowledge has the term open world been used by ANet to describe the way the zones are laid out in an attempt to make people think there is no zone lines.
Right, but you do have to zone from area to city to area, correct?
Also, the comparison of Skyrim to GW2 won't work unless you can travel the entire map without zoning if you so choose, which you can not in GW2, correct?
Actually in Skyrim you have to zone whenever you enter a city or a dungeon. So...yeah, it has zoning .
There is a mod that allows you to go into cities without zoning, but that's a mod and not in the default game.
I think if you consider Skyrim an open world, you would consider GW2 an open world. At least from what I've seen. And by my definition, Skyrim is an open world.
Certainly is doesn't compare in how advanced the NPCs are and whatnot, but just when it comes to zoning and things, it's an open world.
I'm guessing you know this already, but this game is nothing like GW1 when it comes to instancing.
So what are you saying, there's no town zoning like in GW1? Towns are instances, no?
In GW1, when you left town, you were in your own instance (or with your group). In GW2, you are playing with other people when you leave town.
In GW1, when you entered town, you were with other people. In GW2, you are still playing with other people when you enter town.
So, in Skyrim, you move from the world to the town. There is a loading screen. This is because the area tends to be more populated and there are certain restraints on how much you are able to do without dedicating a zone to it. The same goes for Guild Wars 2 and all the other games that have certain zoning points.
From what I've seen, these points don't seem to be excessive and actually look to be quite rare. They are in between world and town. They are between major zone and major zone. I saw one video where a guy walked from one setting to the next seemlessly, so it at least appears to me at first glance they were able to keep the zones fairly large.
And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. Those days are gone.
Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.
Since loot isn't central and quest hubs don't exist, it seems to me you might like GW2 a little more than some of the recent MMORPGs.
Where do you get the quests?
They just pop up on the screen when you explore for them in the world. No one gives them to you.
That's true, but wasn't the case in GW1. It's still a themepark though and calling an open world is misleading at best.
That is because people are taking what they say out of context. Every time the term open world has come form a ANet mouth it is while describing the ability to wander the world as you wish and not being forced onto rails like we were in SW:TOR or WoW. You can literally just walk around and farm mobbs, or run dungeons all day, hunt for DE's, etc. etc....
Never once to my knowledge has the term open world been used by ANet to describe the way the zones are laid out in an attempt to make people think there is no zone lines.
Right, but you do have to zone from area to city to area, correct?
Also, the comparison of Skyrim to GW2 won't work unless you can travel the entire map without zoning if you so choose, which you can not in GW2, correct?
Actually in Skyrim you have to zone whenever you enter a city or a dungeon. So...yeah, it has zoning .
There is a mod that allows you to go into cities without zoning, but that's a mod and not in the default game.
I understand that but you can travel the world map in Skyrim without zoning if you so choose, you can't do that in GW2. Correct?
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Right, but you do have to zone from area to city to area, correct?
Also, the comparison of Skyrim to GW2 won't work unless you can travel the entire map without zoning if you so choose, which you can not in GW2, correct?
In Skyrim I have to zone to use the bathroom in my house... what's Skyrim have to do with anything?
Someone tried to compare Skyrim's open world to GW2, that's what. You can't travel the entire map in GW2 without zoning, correct?
Ah, gotcha. Correct, there are zones in GW2. The zones are persistent areas, think of them as shards with each server having a single shard for each zone that everyone on the server has... in other words they're not personal instances like GW1 was regarding it's PvE world. It's a matter of computational resources. Zones have hundreds of dynamic events always happening whether or not people are there, therefore they continually are processing vast amounts of data regardless. By slicing the map into huge zones they're able to diversify the resources while still keeping a huge, open feeling for the world at large. And believe me... these maps are BIG. You can spend quite literally days in a zone without seeing a portal to the next zone. The major capitals are zones as well, again for resource management due to how busy the game is.
I think if you consider Skyrim an open world, you would consider GW2 an open world. At least from what I've seen. And by my definition, Skyrim is an open world.
Certainly is doesn't compare in how advanced the NPCs are and whatnot, but just when it comes to zoning and things, it's an open world.
I'm guessing you know this already, but this game is nothing like GW1 when it comes to instancing.
So what are you saying, there's no town zoning like in GW1? Towns are instances, no?
In GW1, when you left town, you were in your own instance (or with your group). In GW2, you are playing with other people when you leave town.
In GW1, when you entered town, you were with other people. In GW2, you are still playing with other people when you enter town.
So, in Skyrim, you move from the world to the town. There is a loading screen. This is because the area tends to be more populated and there are certain restraints on how much you are able to do without dedicating a zone to it. The same goes for Guild Wars 2 and all the other games that have certain zoning points.
Once again, I understand how Skyrim works, I have the game. My question is, in GW2 can you travel the entire map without zoning if you so choose?
I already know the answer, I'm just trying to make the point that GW2 isn't as open as some are claiming. The problem we have as gaming consumers is we're sometimes unable to cut through the BS and hype to see the truth, we tend to see what we want to see.
The OP makes good points which are valid and instead of trying to refute them, perhaps it's better just to call a spade a spade. Good or bad, like or dislike, it is what it is. GW2 is what it is and can never be what it isn't.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. Those days are gone.
Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.
Since loot isn't central and quest hubs don't exist, it seems to me you might like GW2 a little more than some of the recent MMORPGs.
Where do you get the quests?
They just pop up on the screen when you explore for them in the world. No one gives them to you.
That's true, but wasn't the case in GW1. It's still a themepark though and calling an open world is misleading at best.
That is because people are taking what they say out of context. Every time the term open world has come form a ANet mouth it is while describing the ability to wander the world as you wish and not being forced onto rails like we were in SW:TOR or WoW. You can literally just walk around and farm mobbs, or run dungeons all day, hunt for DE's, etc. etc....
Never once to my knowledge has the term open world been used by ANet to describe the way the zones are laid out in an attempt to make people think there is no zone lines.
Right, but you do have to zone from area to city to area, correct?
Also, the comparison of Skyrim to GW2 won't work unless you can travel the entire map without zoning if you so choose, which you can not in GW2, correct?
Just face it you will never enjoy another MMO again. All you do is focus on what you don't like at least that's how you come across.
I'm going to fully enjoy GW2 I will explore to my hearts content and do what ever I want not having to worry about quests. Loading screens will never break immersion for me as long as the world is a world.
I think if you consider Skyrim an open world, you would consider GW2 an open world. At least from what I've seen. And by my definition, Skyrim is an open world.
Certainly is doesn't compare in how advanced the NPCs are and whatnot, but just when it comes to zoning and things, it's an open world.
I'm guessing you know this already, but this game is nothing like GW1 when it comes to instancing.
So what are you saying, there's no town zoning like in GW1? Towns are instances, no?
In GW1, when you left town, you were in your own instance (or with your group). In GW2, you are playing with other people when you leave town.
In GW1, when you entered town, you were with other people. In GW2, you are still playing with other people when you enter town.
So, in Skyrim, you move from the world to the town. There is a loading screen. This is because the area tends to be more populated and there are certain restraints on how much you are able to do without dedicating a zone to it. The same goes for Guild Wars 2 and all the other games that have certain zoning points.
Once again, I understand how Skyrim works, I have the game. My question is, in GW2 can you travel the entire map without zoning if you so choose?
I already know the answer, I'm just trying to make the point that GW2 isn't as open as some are claiming. The problem we have as gaming consumers is we're sometimes unable to cut through the BS and hype to see the truth, we tend to see what we want to see.
The OP makes good points which are valid and instead of trying to refute them, perhaps it's better just to call a spade a spade. Good or bad, like or dislike, it is what it is. GW2 is what it is and can never be what it isn't.
I suppose there just haven't been many games without zones. I mean, yes, there are zones in GW2. I guess I should jsut ask it.
Do you think EQ2 is open world?
Do you think EVE is open world?
Do you think Warhammer Online is open world?
Do you think Age of Conan is open world?
If not, then yes, GW2 is not open world. And I'm fine with that.
I like that the game is a persistent world that is mostly open. (unilke GW1)
I feel like it is nearly impossible not to have load screens for personal story instances.
I can accept that there is a load screen between major zone clumps and inner city hubs.
I'm with you...I just don't think this is that big of a deal. I know it's my opinion, but well...that's what it is.
IMO, having too much instancing is a HUGE problem...but having a loading screen every now and then isn't a big deal at all unless its too excessive. I mean in EQ, you had TONS of loading screens and EQ is generally regarded as an immersive game.
Here's the difference and the problem.
In UO, you had to actually work to be able to fast-travel. Not only did you have to discover the locations but you determined where to mark, not the game. You also needed to have reagents, runes, and enough skill to mark the runes. In Guild Wars, you just open the map and PRESTO! There is a difference and although it might be considered a small difference by some, it's the difference between immersion and not. For me, clicking map hubs in Guild Wars breaks immersion.
Too many loading screens suck too as they also break immersion. If you have too many they become similar to commercials breaking up your TV show or movie. AoC is a good example of what NOT to do.
These may seem like nothing to you but for many gamers these are serious immersive issues/problems.
That's not how I remember it !
In UO, you went to a local player vendor that sold runes to popular places. You bought the runes for a reasonable price. You could then fast travel to any of those places without ever having to discover them and make copies of your runes just in case you died.
Yes, you could buy them but I always remarked somewhere else. Once again, there IS a difference, that being work.
In GW2, at least you have to actually go to the location first . And as for reagents? Big deal...if you were a mage, getting reagents was normal for you. You just bought them from a vendor. It was only difficult to do this when you were first starting out.
Like I said, it might not be a big deal to you but for many gamers out there it is. Fast travel in Guild Wars is cheesy at best. In UO, someone had to do the work, including finding and buying the marked runes if you so choose. There IS a difference.
...
.
Regarding the loading screens...we're each entitled to our opinions so there's not much of a point in arguing about it.
But the UO stuff...I just don't see how you think instant travel in UO is more work than it is in GW2. I mean, look at the facts:
Point 1: Travel locations
A. In UO, you needed a rune marked at a specific spot to travel to it. These runes were tradeable, could be marked anywhere, and had unlimited uses. This means that you can literally just buy a rune to any place in the game from a vendor and be on your way. There is also NO LIMIT to the amount of runes you can have. And really once you were in a decent guild, it should be easy for you to just get runes from your guildies for free.
B. In GW2, you unlock travel points by visiting them. Once you unlock one, you can travel there from anywhere...just like UO runes. BUT, you HAVE to actually travel there first, AND you can only travel to specific points.
For point number 1...UO seems to have a more liberal travel system when looking at locations.
Point 2:Travel execution
A. In UO, you travel by casting recall or gate on a rune you have marked before, this can be cast anywhere. This costs (a few) reagents, which can be bought from a vendor en masse with gold. The cost was literally almost the exact same cost as casting one energy bolt...a popular nuke. So fast travelling costs as much as a nuke...next to nothing.
B. In GW2, you travel my looking at the map and picking a place to go, this can be done from anywhere much like UO. This costs gold, which to me, is almost the same thing as reagents. Because, after all, reagents can be bought from vendors with gold. And really, I don't think it's even possible for GW2 travel to be "cheaper" than UO travel because UO travel was dirt cheap.
For point number 2...I really think they are even. In both games, you can travel from anywhere and it costs a pittance.
So yeah...I really don't see where you're getting this "UO fast travel requires work" idea. It was dumb easy in UO. The only difficult part was training your magery high enough so that you could actually cast recall. But that was an attribute of UO in general...it was EXTREMELY hard to get out of "newbie" land, but once you were out...you were good.
Once again, I understand how Skyrim works, I have the game. My question is, in GW2 can you travel the entire map without zoning if you so choose?
I already know the answer, I'm just trying to make the point that GW2 isn't as open as some are claiming. The problem we have as gaming consumers is we're sometimes unable to cut through the BS and hype to see the truth, we tend to see what we want to see.
The OP makes good points which are valid and instead of trying to refute them, perhaps it's better just to call a spade a spade. Good or bad, like or dislike, it is what it is. GW2 is what it is and can never be what it isn't.
It's a matter of semantics. People are using definitions of "open world" that best suits how they understand it (or want to represent it), and those definitions vary. Some say an open world means it's all one big zone free area. This GW2 is not. Some say an open world is where everyone is out in the persistent world together as opposed to instances ala GW1. This GW2 definitely is. You'd be better off predicating "open" with something like "seamless", as in "Is it a seamless open world or a zoned open world?" to get a more accurate, less confusing conversation going.
Yes, the world is open to all, not instanced. Yes, it's zoned as well.
And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. Those days are gone.
Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.
Since loot isn't central and quest hubs don't exist, it seems to me you might like GW2 a little more than some of the recent MMORPGs.
Where do you get the quests?
They just pop up on the screen when you explore for them in the world. No one gives them to you.
That's true, but wasn't the case in GW1. It's still a themepark though and calling an open world is misleading at best.
That is because people are taking what they say out of context. Every time the term open world has come form a ANet mouth it is while describing the ability to wander the world as you wish and not being forced onto rails like we were in SW:TOR or WoW. You can literally just walk around and farm mobbs, or run dungeons all day, hunt for DE's, etc. etc....
Never once to my knowledge has the term open world been used by ANet to describe the way the zones are laid out in an attempt to make people think there is no zone lines.
Right, but you do have to zone from area to city to area, correct?
Also, the comparison of Skyrim to GW2 won't work unless you can travel the entire map without zoning if you so choose, which you can not in GW2, correct?
Actually in Skyrim you have to zone whenever you enter a city or a dungeon. So...yeah, it has zoning .
There is a mod that allows you to go into cities without zoning, but that's a mod and not in the default game.
I understand that but you can travel the world map in Skyrim without zoning if you so choose, you can't do that in GW2. Correct?
Yup, that is correct, there are some "world zones" in GW2.
Right, but you do have to zone from area to city to area, correct?
Also, the comparison of Skyrim to GW2 won't work unless you can travel the entire map without zoning if you so choose, which you can not in GW2, correct?
In Skyrim I have to zone to use the bathroom in my house... what's Skyrim have to do with anything?
Someone tried to compare Skyrim's open world to GW2, that's what. You can't travel the entire map in GW2 without zoning, correct?
Ah, gotcha. Correct, there are zones in GW2. The zones are persistent areas, think of them as shards with each server having a single shard for each zone that everyone on the server has... in other words they're not personal instances like GW1 was regarding it's PvE world. It's a matter of computational resources. Zones have hundreds of dynamic events always happening whether or not people are there, therefore they continually are processing vast amounts of data regardless. By slicing the map into huge zones they're able to diversify the resources while still keeping a huge, open feeling for the world at large. And believe me... these maps are BIG. You can spend quite literally days in a zone without seeing a portal to the next zone. The major capitals are zones as well, again for resource management due to how busy the game is.
Days? Perhaps a bit over-the-top but ok, they're bigger than GW1 which is good.
I understand how instancing works and why they do it but I contend that you can design game worlds that are open and without instances. Most MMOs these days go the instancing route, which is fine if you like that kind of thing, but as to the OP, it bothers many gamers out there, including me. It depends on the frequency of instancing/zoning as to my frustration level of course.
It is what it is. GW2 is going to sell a lot of copies and I might even purchase one. However, just as the OP states, I have concerns over the zoning/instancing and hope to see more open world MMOs soon.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
I think if you consider Skyrim an open world, you would consider GW2 an open world. At least from what I've seen. And by my definition, Skyrim is an open world.
Certainly is doesn't compare in how advanced the NPCs are and whatnot, but just when it comes to zoning and things, it's an open world.
I'm guessing you know this already, but this game is nothing like GW1 when it comes to instancing.
So what are you saying, there's no town zoning like in GW1? Towns are instances, no?
In GW1, when you left town, you were in your own instance (or with your group). In GW2, you are playing with other people when you leave town.
In GW1, when you entered town, you were with other people. In GW2, you are still playing with other people when you enter town.
So, in Skyrim, you move from the world to the town. There is a loading screen. This is because the area tends to be more populated and there are certain restraints on how much you are able to do without dedicating a zone to it. The same goes for Guild Wars 2 and all the other games that have certain zoning points.
Once again, I understand how Skyrim works, I have the game. My question is, in GW2 can you travel the entire map without zoning if you so choose?
I already know the answer, I'm just trying to make the point that GW2 isn't as open as some are claiming. The problem we have as gaming consumers is we're sometimes unable to cut through the BS and hype to see the truth, we tend to see what we want to see.
The OP makes good points which are valid and instead of trying to refute them, perhaps it's better just to call a spade a spade. Good or bad, like or dislike, it is what it is. GW2 is what it is and can never be what it isn't.
I suppose there just haven't been many games without zones. I mean, yes, there are zones in GW2. I guess I should jsut ask it.
Do you think EQ2 is open world?
Do you think EVE is open world?
Do you think Warhammer Online is open world?
Do you think Age of Conan is open world?
If not, then yes, GW2 is not open world. And I'm fine with that.
This . Add WoW to the list - you have loading screens there too.
And some gamers never will because those days have been lost. No longer are we free to roam open worlds full of possibility and exploration. No longer do we FEEL like we're living in the world, like we're living the life of our character. No, now it's all about fast l00tz, linear quest hubs that force you to play how they want you to play. Those days are gone.
Most people who grew up on UO and/or SWG know what I'm talking about.
Since loot isn't central and quest hubs don't exist, it seems to me you might like GW2 a little more than some of the recent MMORPGs.
Where do you get the quests?
They just pop up on the screen when you explore for them in the world. No one gives them to you.
That's true, but wasn't the case in GW1. It's still a themepark though and calling an open world is misleading at best.
That is because people are taking what they say out of context. Every time the term open world has come form a ANet mouth it is while describing the ability to wander the world as you wish and not being forced onto rails like we were in SW:TOR or WoW. You can literally just walk around and farm mobbs, or run dungeons all day, hunt for DE's, etc. etc....
Never once to my knowledge has the term open world been used by ANet to describe the way the zones are laid out in an attempt to make people think there is no zone lines.
Right, but you do have to zone from area to city to area, correct?
Also, the comparison of Skyrim to GW2 won't work unless you can travel the entire map without zoning if you so choose, which you can not in GW2, correct?
Actually in Skyrim you have to zone whenever you enter a city or a dungeon. So...yeah, it has zoning .
There is a mod that allows you to go into cities without zoning, but that's a mod and not in the default game.
I understand that but you can travel the world map in Skyrim without zoning if you so choose, you can't do that in GW2. Correct?
Yup, that is correct, there are some "world zones" in GW2.
Which makes the comparison to Skyrim incorrect, that's the point I was trying to make. Although you do have to zone into cities in Skyrim, you can cruise the entire map without zoning if you choose to making it an open world with instanced cities. GW2 on the other hand is an instanced world with instanced cities. Mose people like yourself won't notice or care but for people like me and the OP it's noticeable.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Comments
I would say story mode is more like doing instances from what I've seen. You do talk to people and run around and advance the main story quest, but they seem to lead to dungeons. They certainly aren't quest hubs at all.
Actually, there are a some quest givers in the world that ask you to bring them X number of items.
That's true, but wasn't the case in GW1. It's still a themepark though and calling an open world is misleading at best.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
I think if you consider Skyrim an open world, you would consider GW2 an open world. At least from what I've seen. And by my definition, Skyrim is an open world.
Certainly is doesn't compare in how advanced the NPCs are and whatnot, but just when it comes to zoning and things, it's an open world.
I'm guessing you know this already, but this game is nothing like GW1 when it comes to instancing.
This whole discussion seems awkward to me. I can think of like maybe 2 games in PC gaming history that did not have loading screens. Loading screens are a normal part of MMORPG gaming not a rarity. Seems to me there is a few people who think that game companies should have moved past the era of load screens and moved foreward but they have an almost ignorant knowledge of game design.
Creating worlds with no load screens severly taxes the resources required to operate a game. Zoneing allows for less load to be placed on tehs erver hardware and lowers the cost of running a MMORPG. There are other concerns that can go along with these thigns like maybe something in a particular zone bugs out, Zone data can be transferred to a backup server and keep running while developers fix the problem with no more then a simple zone crash and not have to bring down a whole server. Again these are just a few concerns and hurdles on the list when a developer debates about adding or dropping zoneing in the game, and there are far more that I dont really feel like trying to explain with my own limited knowledge.
In all fairness some people may really be so anal retentive that they need a zone free world to enjoy a game. But 99.9% of MMORPG gamers dont and have proven that through their loyalty to each individuals game of choice. But I think this is more of a last ditch effort to throw some mud at GW2, because Zoneing didn't seem to be a issue with releases of EQ, EQ2, WoW, Rift, Aion, WAR, LOTRO, SW:TOR, DCUO, CoH, AoC, STO, DDO, or any of the other countless MMORPGs out there with zoneing.
So what are you saying, there's no town zoning like in GW1? Towns are instances, no?
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
That is because people are taking what they say out of context. Every time the term open world has come form a ANet mouth it is while describing the ability to wander the world as you wish and not being forced onto rails like we were in SW:TOR or WoW. You can literally just walk around and farm mobbs, or run dungeons all day, hunt for DE's, etc. etc....
Never once to my knowledge has the term open world been used by ANet to describe the way the zones are laid out in an attempt to make people think there is no zone lines.
In Guild Wars 2 you don't get the quests. The quests get you.
Dynamic events happen in the world whether or not you're there to participate, the world doesn't care. You have the choice, as you come across these 1500+ events, to participate or not.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Right, but you do have to zone from area to city to area, correct?
Also, the comparison of Skyrim to GW2 won't work unless you can travel the entire map without zoning if you so choose, which you can not in GW2, correct?
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Not open world as in sandbox... open world as in persistent world where you're out there with everyone else. They've never tried to falsely claim they're a sandbox. What they are offering is your choice on how to experience the game... there's the PvE side, the WvW side (where you can completely level up, gear up, etc. if you wish) and the competitive PvP side (where you're boosted to 80, given full skill and gear access and placed on equal footing with all other competitive players).
Oderint, dum metuant.
In Skyrim I have to zone to use the bathroom in my house... what's Skyrim have to do with anything?
Oderint, dum metuant.
Someone tried to compare Skyrim's open world to GW2, that's what. You can't travel the entire map in GW2 without zoning, correct?
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Actually in Skyrim you have to zone whenever you enter a city or a dungeon. So...yeah, it has zoning
.
There is a mod that allows you to go into cities without zoning, but that's a mod and not in the default game.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
In GW1, when you left town, you were in your own instance (or with your group). In GW2, you are playing with other people when you leave town.
In GW1, when you entered town, you were with other people. In GW2, you are still playing with other people when you enter town.
So, in Skyrim, you move from the world to the town. There is a loading screen. This is because the area tends to be more populated and there are certain restraints on how much you are able to do without dedicating a zone to it. The same goes for Guild Wars 2 and all the other games that have certain zoning points.
From what I've seen, these points don't seem to be excessive and actually look to be quite rare. They are in between world and town. They are between major zone and major zone. I saw one video where a guy walked from one setting to the next seemlessly, so it at least appears to me at first glance they were able to keep the zones fairly large.
I understand that but you can travel the world map in Skyrim without zoning if you so choose, you can't do that in GW2. Correct?
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Ah, gotcha. Correct, there are zones in GW2. The zones are persistent areas, think of them as shards with each server having a single shard for each zone that everyone on the server has... in other words they're not personal instances like GW1 was regarding it's PvE world. It's a matter of computational resources. Zones have hundreds of dynamic events always happening whether or not people are there, therefore they continually are processing vast amounts of data regardless. By slicing the map into huge zones they're able to diversify the resources while still keeping a huge, open feeling for the world at large. And believe me... these maps are BIG. You can spend quite literally days in a zone without seeing a portal to the next zone. The major capitals are zones as well, again for resource management due to how busy the game is.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Once again, I understand how Skyrim works, I have the game. My question is, in GW2 can you travel the entire map without zoning if you so choose?
I already know the answer, I'm just trying to make the point that GW2 isn't as open as some are claiming. The problem we have as gaming consumers is we're sometimes unable to cut through the BS and hype to see the truth, we tend to see what we want to see.
The OP makes good points which are valid and instead of trying to refute them, perhaps it's better just to call a spade a spade. Good or bad, like or dislike, it is what it is. GW2 is what it is and can never be what it isn't.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Just face it you will never enjoy another MMO again. All you do is focus on what you don't like at least that's how you come across.
I'm going to fully enjoy GW2 I will explore to my hearts content and do what ever I want not having to worry about quests. Loading screens will never break immersion for me as long as the world is a world.
I suppose there just haven't been many games without zones. I mean, yes, there are zones in GW2. I guess I should jsut ask it.
Do you think EQ2 is open world?
Do you think EVE is open world?
Do you think Warhammer Online is open world?
Do you think Age of Conan is open world?
If not, then yes, GW2 is not open world. And I'm fine with that.
Regarding the loading screens...we're each entitled to our opinions so there's not much of a point in arguing about it.
But the UO stuff...I just don't see how you think instant travel in UO is more work than it is in GW2. I mean, look at the facts:
Point 1: Travel locations
A. In UO, you needed a rune marked at a specific spot to travel to it. These runes were tradeable, could be marked anywhere, and had unlimited uses. This means that you can literally just buy a rune to any place in the game from a vendor and be on your way. There is also NO LIMIT to the amount of runes you can have. And really once you were in a decent guild, it should be easy for you to just get runes from your guildies for free.
B. In GW2, you unlock travel points by visiting them. Once you unlock one, you can travel there from anywhere...just like UO runes. BUT, you HAVE to actually travel there first, AND you can only travel to specific points.
For point number 1...UO seems to have a more liberal travel system when looking at locations.
Point 2: Travel execution
A. In UO, you travel by casting recall or gate on a rune you have marked before, this can be cast anywhere. This costs (a few) reagents, which can be bought from a vendor en masse with gold. The cost was literally almost the exact same cost as casting one energy bolt...a popular nuke. So fast travelling costs as much as a nuke...next to nothing.
B. In GW2, you travel my looking at the map and picking a place to go, this can be done from anywhere much like UO. This costs gold, which to me, is almost the same thing as reagents. Because, after all, reagents can be bought from vendors with gold. And really, I don't think it's even possible for GW2 travel to be "cheaper" than UO travel because UO travel was dirt cheap.
For point number 2...I really think they are even. In both games, you can travel from anywhere and it costs a pittance.
So yeah...I really don't see where you're getting this "UO fast travel requires work" idea. It was dumb easy in UO. The only difficult part was training your magery high enough so that you could actually cast recall. But that was an attribute of UO in general...it was EXTREMELY hard to get out of "newbie" land, but once you were out...you were good.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
It's a matter of semantics. People are using definitions of "open world" that best suits how they understand it (or want to represent it), and those definitions vary. Some say an open world means it's all one big zone free area. This GW2 is not. Some say an open world is where everyone is out in the persistent world together as opposed to instances ala GW1. This GW2 definitely is. You'd be better off predicating "open" with something like "seamless", as in "Is it a seamless open world or a zoned open world?" to get a more accurate, less confusing conversation going.
Yes, the world is open to all, not instanced. Yes, it's zoned as well.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Yup, that is correct, there are some "world zones" in GW2.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Days? Perhaps a bit over-the-top but ok, they're bigger than GW1 which is good.
I understand how instancing works and why they do it but I contend that you can design game worlds that are open and without instances. Most MMOs these days go the instancing route, which is fine if you like that kind of thing, but as to the OP, it bothers many gamers out there, including me. It depends on the frequency of instancing/zoning as to my frustration level of course.
It is what it is. GW2 is going to sell a lot of copies and I might even purchase one. However, just as the OP states, I have concerns over the zoning/instancing and hope to see more open world MMOs soon.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
This . Add WoW to the list - you have loading screens there too.
Which makes the comparison to Skyrim incorrect, that's the point I was trying to make. Although you do have to zone into cities in Skyrim, you can cruise the entire map without zoning if you choose to making it an open world with instanced cities. GW2 on the other hand is an instanced world with instanced cities. Mose people like yourself won't notice or care but for people like me and the OP it's noticeable.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky