I understand concerns for it being P2W, i certainly don't want it to be at all, i'm a little worried about mystic keys, but being concerned with it being P2W and claiming its a P2W cash shop, just a money-grabber game is over the top, if you're concerned good, everyone needs to be, this CS could go many ways, and a lot of those ways a bad direction, but we have 0 proof of it being bad, and devs saying it's not ok to beable to buy a power advantage. It isnt EA we are talking about, ANet has credibility. i'm i saying to blindly follow their words? no, but don't hate on them.
ANet is under NCsoft... if you look at the cash shops in other NCSoft games, well, it can leave a bitter taste in one's mouth.
I'm sure that there are several people in the beta that would love to discuss their concerns regarding some of the items from those mystic key boxes, along with other cash shop items that weren't leaked. But unfortunately the majority of us are just going to have to wait to find out.
It is logical to assume that there is a reset timer on purchasing the Guild Promoter perks.
Please elaborate, more as in, you "could" have all buffs up at once, but not constantly?
When I read that page you linked, I see something that says "drinks for the night" which implies to me that purchasing that perk has a 24 hour cooldown.
Just like the one that says "drinks for a week" would have a one week cooldown.
Once again, these are just assumptions based upon that fact that doing such a thing would be incredibly intelligent and logical game design in order to prevent the very "buying an advantage" scenario people are fearful of.
Drinks for the City - Enough alcohol to share with the entire city. A night of celebration of everyones favorite guild. This will increase your guilds influence by 1,000 points. Cost: 10
Drinks for a Week! - The citizens of the surrounding area wont soon forget your guilds generosity as you host a week of revelry and celebrate your achievements. Increases the guilds influence by 10,000 points. Cost: 100
I mean, reading that, too me, it's obvious those two have long cooldowns.
I see what you mean, that would be great if it were the case.
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
It is logical to assume that there is a reset timer on purchasing the Guild Promoter perks.
Please elaborate, more as in, you "could" have all buffs up at once, but not constantly?
When I read that page you linked, I see something that says "drinks for the night" which implies to me that purchasing that perk has a 24 hour cooldown.
Just like the one that says "drinks for a week" would have a one week cooldown.
Once again, these are just assumptions based upon that fact that doing such a thing would be incredibly intelligent and logical game design in order to prevent the very "buying an advantage" scenario people are fearful of.
Reasonable assumptions, but they could signify that one is longer than the other and be any time really. Could be 30 mind and 2 hours.
It's all moot until we get to see for ourselves tho
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
If you want to half your leveling time you can pay for this.
If you want to level your guild faster you can pay for this.
These are fairly common for most games with a cash shop.
If you see MMO's as a race you might think it is Pay 2 win.
Exactly. The naysayers have failed, in numerous threads, to prove the game is P2W by any reasonable standards, and justify their claims by saying "Oh well my definition is different than yours".
The fact is, P2W would be giving someone a direct advantage that can't be farmed in the game through any amount of time, and GW2 simply has shown no items that do that.
If you want to half your leveling time you can pay for this.
If you want to level your guild faster you can pay for this.
These are fairly common for most games with a cash shop.
If you see MMO's as a race you might think it is Pay 2 win.
Exactly. The naysayers have failed, in numerous threads, to prove the game is P2W by any reasonable standards, and justify their claims by saying "Oh well my definition is different than yours".
The fact is, P2W would be giving someone a direct advantage that can't be farmed in the game through any amount of time, and GW2 simply has shown no items that do that.
While I remain suspiscious that the game will be P2W,.
I prefer that it isn't. I want to play this game but I am not paying $60 for a P2W game.
While gray areas are OK to you, they are not to me.
I do appreciate the logical discussion that has takne place over this topic. It does present a reasonable argument. But it's HARDLY been disproved.
NOTHING has failed to prove anyting either way. All it does is raise awareness to what needs to be watched.
If you want to half your leveling time you can pay for this.
If you want to level your guild faster you can pay for this.
These are fairly common for most games with a cash shop.
If you see MMO's as a race you might think it is Pay 2 win.
Exactly. The naysayers have failed, in numerous threads, to prove the game is P2W by any reasonable standards, and justify their claims by saying "Oh well my definition is different than yours".
The fact is, P2W would be giving someone a direct advantage that can't be farmed in the game through any amount of time, and GW2 simply has shown no items that do that.
*facepalm*
It has nothing to do with the semantics of what P2W is. People aren't stupid, they know what P2W is. What most people don't know however, is exactly what is in the beta cash shop. But it currently can't be discussed publicly because of the NDA. That said, just because you're oblivious to the existence of something, it doesn't mean it's not there, and therefore concerns of potential P2W are just as relevant as those who have none at this point.
If you want to half your leveling time you can pay for this.
If you want to level your guild faster you can pay for this.
These are fairly common for most games with a cash shop.
If you see MMO's as a race you might think it is Pay 2 win.
Exactly. The naysayers have failed, in numerous threads, to prove the game is P2W by any reasonable standards, and justify their claims by saying "Oh well my definition is different than yours".
The fact is, P2W would be giving someone a direct advantage that can't be farmed in the game through any amount of time, and GW2 simply has shown no items that do that.
While I remain suspiscious that the game will be P2W,.
I prefer that it isn't. I want to play this game but I am not paying $60 for a P2W game.
While gray areas are OK to you, they are not to me.
I do appreciate the logical discussion that has takne place over this topic. It does present a reasonable argument. But it's HARDLY been disproved.
NOTHING has failed to prove anyting either way. All it does is raise awareness to what needs to be watched.
And it's still more than "Cosmetic Only"
The fact is that the game has no subscription fee. In other words, you're saving $15 every month. If you're so worried that the game offers some sort of an advantage with a cash shop, take that $15 you would otherwise pay, and buy yourself some cash shop advantages.
If you have such an issue with GW2's cash shop, I'm curious to know how you feel about TSW's cash shop? That game will have a box fee, subscription cost and a cash shop.
If you want to half your leveling time you can pay for this.
If you want to level your guild faster you can pay for this.
These are fairly common for most games with a cash shop.
If you see MMO's as a race you might think it is Pay 2 win.
Exactly. The naysayers have failed, in numerous threads, to prove the game is P2W by any reasonable standards, and justify their claims by saying "Oh well my definition is different than yours".
The fact is, P2W would be giving someone a direct advantage that can't be farmed in the game through any amount of time, and GW2 simply has shown no items that do that.
*facepalm*
It has nothing to do with the semantics of what P2W is. People aren't stupid, they know what P2W is. What most people don't know however, is exactly what is in the beta cash shop. But it currently can't be discussed publicly because of the NDA. That said, just because you're oblivious to the existence of something, it doesn't mean it's not there, and therefore concerns of potential P2W are just as relevant as those who have none at this point.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Wheeeeee.... that was a good laugh.
People are smart and logical? Yeah right.... and I'm Bill Gates. People are masses of retardedness.
The fact is, P2W would be giving someone a direct advantage that can't be farmed in the game through any amount of time, and GW2 simply has shown no items that do that.
Gimme a break... Now the fanboys and PR-fiends have brainwashed you as well?
Take 1 min and think about what that statement truly means.
Done?
Yep, that definition means that GW2's cash shop may operate EXACTLY like any P2W cash shop out there, by offering items for cash that are otherwise ridiculously hard to get.
Even Anet's Colin himself has meanwhile apologized for the wording. Luckly, the CS doesn't offer direct stat boosts, except that it currently allows you to sell gems for gold to get WvW buffs.
If you want to half your leveling time you can pay for this.
If you want to level your guild faster you can pay for this.
These are fairly common for most games with a cash shop.
If you see MMO's as a race you might think it is Pay 2 win.
Exactly. The naysayers have failed, in numerous threads, to prove the game is P2W by any reasonable standards, and justify their claims by saying "Oh well my definition is different than yours".
The fact is, P2W would be giving someone a direct advantage that can't be farmed in the game through any amount of time, and GW2 simply has shown no items that do that.
*facepalm*
It has nothing to do with the semantics of what P2W is. People aren't stupid, they know what P2W is. What most people don't know however, is exactly what is in the beta cash shop. But it currently can't be discussed publicly because of the NDA. That said, just because you're oblivious to the existence of something, it doesn't mean it's not there, and therefore concerns of potential P2W are just as relevant as those who have none at this point.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Wheeeeee.... that was a good laugh.
People are smart and logical? Yeah right.... and I'm Bill Gates. People are masses of retardedness.
Then call me stupid for wanting to make 100% certain that I am not paying a boxed fee for P2W, I can save my money and go play PWI or Rappelz for free then.
@Heartless, Please don't tell me how and why it's ok to decide on what to spend my money on. OK? Thanks
The fact is, P2W would be giving someone a direct advantage that can't be farmed in the game through any amount of time, and GW2 simply has shown no items that do that.
Gimme a break... Now the fanboys and PR-fiends have brainwashed you as well?
Take 1 min and think about what that statement truly means.
Done?
Yep, that definition means that GW2's cash shop may operate EXACTLY like any P2W cash shop out there, by offering items for cash that are otherwise ridiculously hard to get.
Even Anet's Colin himself has meanwhile apologized for the wording. Luckly, the CS doesn't offer direct stat boosts, except that it currently allows you to sell gems for gold to get WvW buffs.
However, that's the exact same gold the person you traded for could have used for buffs himself, or a new piece of armor, etc. You make it sound like there's new gold being introduced into the system when it's only a redistribution of pre-existing gold. Instead of Player "A" buying the buffs, he traded his gold to you for your gems. Now you buy the buffs and he has the gems.
The fact is, P2W would be giving someone a direct advantage that can't be farmed in the game through any amount of time, and GW2 simply has shown no items that do that.
Gimme a break... Now the fanboys and PR-fiends have brainwashed you as well?
Take 1 min and think about what that statement truly means.
Done?
Yep, that definition means that GW2's cash shop may operate EXACTLY like any P2W cash shop out there, by offering items for cash that are otherwise ridiculously hard to get.
Even Anet's Colin himself has meanwhile apologized for the wording. Luckly, the CS doesn't offer direct stat boosts, except that it currently allows you to sell gems for gold to get WvW buffs.
However, that's the exact same gold the person you traded for could have used for buffs himself, or a new piece of armor, etc. You make it sound like there's new gold being introduced into the system when it's only a redistribution of pre-existing gold. Instead of Player "A" buying the buffs, he traded his gold to you for your gems. Now you buy the buffs and he has the gems.
Don't try to reason with him, just let him flame on, there is no helping him. We are just fanboi's and are oblivious to the proof that it is P2W.
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
However, that's the exact same gold the person you traded for could have used for buffs himself, or a new piece of armor, etc. You make it sound like there's new gold being introduced into the system when it's only a redistribution of pre-existing gold. Instead of Player "A" buying the buffs, he traded his gold to you for your gems. Now you buy the buffs and he has the gems.
Don't try to reason with him, just let him flame on, there is no helping him. We are just fanboi's and are oblivious to the proof that it is P2W.
Eh... you're probably right. I just have this thing about hating to leave blatant misinformation unchallenged.
However, that's the exact same gold the person you traded for could have used for buffs himself, or a new piece of armor, etc. You make it sound like there's new gold being introduced into the system when it's only a redistribution of pre-existing gold. Instead of Player "A" buying the buffs, he traded his gold to you for your gems. Now you buy the buffs and he has the gems.
Don't try to reason with him, just let him flame on, there is no helping him. We are just fanboi's and are oblivious to the proof that it is P2W.
Eh... you're probably right. I just have this thing about hating to leave blatant misinformation unchallenged.
as do i, but when you ask for proof, or links to what causes it to be pay2win they say we are twisting the thread, or are blind, or something, It is a lost cause, but one that i am sure will be picked back up in about..... 11 days?
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
The fact is, P2W would be giving someone a direct advantage that can't be farmed in the game through any amount of time, and GW2 simply has shown no items that do that.
Gimme a break... Now the fanboys and PR-fiends have brainwashed you as well?
Take 1 min and think about what that statement truly means.
Done?
Yep, that definition means that GW2's cash shop may operate EXACTLY like any P2W cash shop out there, by offering items for cash that are otherwise ridiculously hard to get.
Even Anet's Colin himself has meanwhile apologized for the wording. Luckly, the CS doesn't offer direct stat boosts, except that it currently allows you to sell gems for gold to get WvW buffs.
However, that's the exact same gold the person you traded for could have used for buffs himself, or a new piece of armor, etc. You make it sound like there's new gold being introduced into the system when it's only a redistribution of pre-existing gold. Instead of Player "A" buying the buffs, he traded his gold to you for your gems. Now you buy the buffs and he has the gems.
Same thing i responded to that last time: So?
That other player will spend his gems on the CS, and i got my buffs. What's your point?
The fact is, P2W would be giving someone a direct advantage that can't be farmed in the game through any amount of time, and GW2 simply has shown no items that do that.
Gimme a break... Now the fanboys and PR-fiends have brainwashed you as well?
Take 1 min and think about what that statement truly means.
Done?
Yep, that definition means that GW2's cash shop may operate EXACTLY like any P2W cash shop out there, by offering items for cash that are otherwise ridiculously hard to get.
Even Anet's Colin himself has meanwhile apologized for the wording. Luckly, the CS doesn't offer direct stat boosts, except that it currently allows you to sell gems for gold to get WvW buffs.
However, that's the exact same gold the person you traded for could have used for buffs himself, or a new piece of armor, etc. You make it sound like there's new gold being introduced into the system when it's only a redistribution of pre-existing gold. Instead of Player "A" buying the buffs, he traded his gold to you for your gems. Now you buy the buffs and he has the gems.
Same thing i responded to that last time: So?
That other player will spend his gems on the CS, and i got my buffs. What's your point?
That it isn't pay to win, simple enough. You can't purchase a "win button" so to speak from the cash shop. There's nothing in the shop itself you can buy that will make you more powerful than anything available in game, and gems don't provide power, they only redistribute wealth.
The fact is, P2W would be giving someone a direct advantage that can't be farmed in the game through any amount of time, and GW2 simply has shown no items that do that.
Gimme a break... Now the fanboys and PR-fiends have brainwashed you as well?
Take 1 min and think about what that statement truly means.
Done?
Yep, that definition means that GW2's cash shop may operate EXACTLY like any P2W cash shop out there, by offering items for cash that are otherwise ridiculously hard to get.
Even Anet's Colin himself has meanwhile apologized for the wording. Luckly, the CS doesn't offer direct stat boosts, except that it currently allows you to sell gems for gold to get WvW buffs.
However, that's the exact same gold the person you traded for could have used for buffs himself, or a new piece of armor, etc. You make it sound like there's new gold being introduced into the system when it's only a redistribution of pre-existing gold. Instead of Player "A" buying the buffs, he traded his gold to you for your gems. Now you buy the buffs and he has the gems.
Same thing i responded to that last time: So?
That other player will spend his gems on the CS, and i got my buffs. What's your point?
This new defense of the cash shop is taking this "holistic view of the economy" in order to justify it. Basically that if you net-sum all the advantages for every person in the game it sums to zero. It is hilarious to see the contortions that the aplogists go through in order to try and pretend it isn't pay2win. It's like saying there is no evil in the world because for each criminal there is a police officer and it all averages out.
The method of how the gold gets to the pay2winner is irrelvant...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
The fact is, P2W would be giving someone a direct advantage that can't be farmed in the game through any amount of time, and GW2 simply has shown no items that do that.
Gimme a break... Now the fanboys and PR-fiends have brainwashed you as well?
Take 1 min and think about what that statement truly means.
Done?
Yep, that definition means that GW2's cash shop may operate EXACTLY like any P2W cash shop out there, by offering items for cash that are otherwise ridiculously hard to get.
Even Anet's Colin himself has meanwhile apologized for the wording. Luckly, the CS doesn't offer direct stat boosts, except that it currently allows you to sell gems for gold to get WvW buffs.
However, that's the exact same gold the person you traded for could have used for buffs himself, or a new piece of armor, etc. You make it sound like there's new gold being introduced into the system when it's only a redistribution of pre-existing gold. Instead of Player "A" buying the buffs, he traded his gold to you for your gems. Now you buy the buffs and he has the gems.
Same thing i responded to that last time: So?
That other player will spend his gems on the CS, and i got my buffs. What's your point?
The point is the the gold was already there. It didn't magically appear. The gold just traded hands. Instead of buying your gems, the person could've just purchased the buffs himself.
The buffs in question apply to all of your allies, meaning everyone from your server who is helping you defend your keep, not just your guild members. Does it really matter who activates those buffs if everyone gets a bonus?
The fact is, P2W would be giving someone a direct advantage that can't be farmed in the game through any amount of time, and GW2 simply has shown no items that do that.
Gimme a break... Now the fanboys and PR-fiends have brainwashed you as well?
Take 1 min and think about what that statement truly means.
Done?
Yep, that definition means that GW2's cash shop may operate EXACTLY like any P2W cash shop out there, by offering items for cash that are otherwise ridiculously hard to get.
Even Anet's Colin himself has meanwhile apologized for the wording. Luckly, the CS doesn't offer direct stat boosts, except that it currently allows you to sell gems for gold to get WvW buffs.
However, that's the exact same gold the person you traded for could have used for buffs himself, or a new piece of armor, etc. You make it sound like there's new gold being introduced into the system when it's only a redistribution of pre-existing gold. Instead of Player "A" buying the buffs, he traded his gold to you for your gems. Now you buy the buffs and he has the gems.
Same thing i responded to that last time: So?
That other player will spend his gems on the CS, and i got my buffs. What's your point?
The point is the the gold was already there. It didn't magically appear. The gold just traded hands. Instead of buying your gems, the person could've just purchased the buffs himself.
The buffs in question apply to all of your allies, meaning everyone from your server who is helping you defend your keep, not just your guild members. Does it really matter who activates those buffs if everyone gets a bonus?
Let's say, hypothetically, that one of the boosts available in the cash shop increased the amount of currency dropped for the purchaser for a period of time.
Would this not be magically creating additional currency out of thin air? Would it cross the line into P2W territory?
I pose this hypothetical boost as other NCsoft games have such in their own cash shop.
The fact is, P2W would be giving someone a direct advantage that can't be farmed in the game through any amount of time, and GW2 simply has shown no items that do that.
Gimme a break... Now the fanboys and PR-fiends have brainwashed you as well?
Take 1 min and think about what that statement truly means.
Done?
Yep, that definition means that GW2's cash shop may operate EXACTLY like any P2W cash shop out there, by offering items for cash that are otherwise ridiculously hard to get.
Even Anet's Colin himself has meanwhile apologized for the wording. Luckly, the CS doesn't offer direct stat boosts, except that it currently allows you to sell gems for gold to get WvW buffs.
However, that's the exact same gold the person you traded for could have used for buffs himself, or a new piece of armor, etc. You make it sound like there's new gold being introduced into the system when it's only a redistribution of pre-existing gold. Instead of Player "A" buying the buffs, he traded his gold to you for your gems. Now you buy the buffs and he has the gems.
Same thing i responded to that last time: So?
That other player will spend his gems on the CS, and i got my buffs. What's your point?
This new defense of the cash shop is taking this "holistic view of the economy" in order to justify it. Basically that if you net-sum all the advantages for every person in the game it sums to zero. It is hilarious to see the contortions that the aplogists go through in order to try and pretend it isn't pay2win. It's like saying there is no evil in the world because for each criminal there is a police officer and it all averages out.
The method of how the gold gets to the pay2winner is irrelvant...
Your problem is that you assume that gems will be a highly valuable commodity and everyone will be tripping over themselves in order to farm enough gold to buy your gems. They will not be. Gold buys you more important things like influence, armor, weapons, crafting mats, repairs.
Look objectively at what can be purchased with gems in the cash shop. Now look objectively at what can be purchased with gold. Who in their right mind would waste their gold to get your gems and gimp themselves in the process?
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh Originally posted by Ambros123
Originally posted by Ceridith
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by Atlan99
It's more pay for convience than Pay 2 win imo. If you want to half your leveling time you can pay for this. If you want to level your guild faster you can pay for this. These are fairly common for most games with a cash shop. If you see MMO's as a race you might think it is Pay 2 win.
Exactly. The naysayers have failed, in numerous threads, to prove the game is P2W by any reasonable standards, and justify their claims by saying "Oh well my definition is different than yours". The fact is, P2W would be giving someone a direct advantage that can't be farmed in the game through any amount of time, and GW2 simply has shown no items that do that. *facepalm* It has nothing to do with the semantics of what P2W is. People aren't stupid, they know what P2W is. What most people don't know however, is exactly what is in the beta cash shop. But it currently can't be discussed publicly because of the NDA. That said, just because you're oblivious to the existence of something, it doesn't mean it's not there, and therefore concerns of potential P2W are just as relevant as those who have none at this point. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Wheeeeee.... that was a good laugh. People are smart and logical? Yeah right.... and I'm Bill Gates. People are masses of retardedness. Then call me stupid for wanting to make 100% certain that I am not paying a boxed fee for P2W, I can save my money and go play PWI or Rappelz for free then. @Heartless, Please don't tell me how and why it's ok to decide on what to spend my money on. OK? Thanks
If you want to play P2W games with naff graphics, no RPG elements , uninspired professions and the NEED to use the cash shop then feel free People forget that GW2 looks pretty amazing and shaping up to be on the same level, if not superior than most P2P so called triple AAA titles. I'm not excusing any P2W in GW2, I have my concerns too but let's not forget what we are paying for.
I'm worried that there could be an advantage for those that throw masses of money at it, we simply don't know until we see how it really works, I'm comfortable with Anets history and hope that they won't be doing anything that gives any real advantage via the trade of gems or items in their store, I'm not convinced my envisioned world of fun in GW2 is at it's end yet and neither should you be until you see the real facts about the system, unless of course you had no intention of playing in the first place.
None of us know how long until release, we know Anet iterate, nothing we see is set in stone.
The fact is, P2W would be giving someone a direct advantage that can't be farmed in the game through any amount of time, and GW2 simply has shown no items that do that.
Gimme a break... Now the fanboys and PR-fiends have brainwashed you as well?
Take 1 min and think about what that statement truly means.
Done?
Yep, that definition means that GW2's cash shop may operate EXACTLY like any P2W cash shop out there, by offering items for cash that are otherwise ridiculously hard to get.
Even Anet's Colin himself has meanwhile apologized for the wording. Luckly, the CS doesn't offer direct stat boosts, except that it currently allows you to sell gems for gold to get WvW buffs.
However, that's the exact same gold the person you traded for could have used for buffs himself, or a new piece of armor, etc. You make it sound like there's new gold being introduced into the system when it's only a redistribution of pre-existing gold. Instead of Player "A" buying the buffs, he traded his gold to you for your gems. Now you buy the buffs and he has the gems.
Same thing i responded to that last time: So?
That other player will spend his gems on the CS, and i got my buffs. What's your point?
This new defense of the cash shop is taking this "holistic view of the economy" in order to justify it. Basically that if you net-sum all the advantages for every person in the game it sums to zero. It is hilarious to see the contortions that the aplogists go through in order to try and pretend it isn't pay2win. It's like saying there is no evil in the world because for each criminal there is a police officer and it all averages out.
The method of how the gold gets to the pay2winner is irrelvant...
Your problem is that you assume that gems will be a highly valuable commodity and everyone will be tripping over themselves in order to farm enough gold to buy your gems. They will not be. Gold buys you more important things like influence, armor, weapons, crafting mats, repairs.
Look objectively at what can be purchased with gems in the cash shop. Now look objectively at what can be purchased with gold. Who in their right mind would waste their gold to get your gems and gimp themselves in the process?
Anet's profits depend entirely on how desirable these gems are. They will ensure that people want them. It is the nature of the beast.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
The fact is, P2W would be giving someone a direct advantage that can't be farmed in the game through any amount of time, and GW2 simply has shown no items that do that.
Gimme a break... Now the fanboys and PR-fiends have brainwashed you as well?
Take 1 min and think about what that statement truly means.
Done?
Yep, that definition means that GW2's cash shop may operate EXACTLY like any P2W cash shop out there, by offering items for cash that are otherwise ridiculously hard to get.
Even Anet's Colin himself has meanwhile apologized for the wording. Luckly, the CS doesn't offer direct stat boosts, except that it currently allows you to sell gems for gold to get WvW buffs.
However, that's the exact same gold the person you traded for could have used for buffs himself, or a new piece of armor, etc. You make it sound like there's new gold being introduced into the system when it's only a redistribution of pre-existing gold. Instead of Player "A" buying the buffs, he traded his gold to you for your gems. Now you buy the buffs and he has the gems.
Same thing i responded to that last time: So?
That other player will spend his gems on the CS, and i got my buffs. What's your point?
The point is the the gold was already there. It didn't magically appear. The gold just traded hands. Instead of buying your gems, the person could've just purchased the buffs himself.
The buffs in question apply to all of your allies, meaning everyone from your server who is helping you defend your keep, not just your guild members. Does it really matter who activates those buffs if everyone gets a bonus?
Let's say, hypothetically, that one of the boosts avaialble in the cash shop increased the amount of currency dropped for the purchaser for a period of time.
Would this not be magically creating additional currency out of thin air?
I pose this hypothetical boost, as other NCsoft games have such in their own cash shop.
This is not an NCSoft game. It's an ArenaNet game. They operate autonomously from NCSoft.
However, in that case, sure it will be creating gold out of thin air. However, in order for it to be truly unbalanced, the amount of gold created has to be pretty significant.
Comments
ANet is under NCsoft... if you look at the cash shops in other NCSoft games, well, it can leave a bitter taste in one's mouth.
I'm sure that there are several people in the beta that would love to discuss their concerns regarding some of the items from those mystic key boxes, along with other cash shop items that weren't leaked. But unfortunately the majority of us are just going to have to wait to find out.
I see what you mean, that would be great if it were the case.
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
Exactly. The naysayers have failed, in numerous threads, to prove the game is P2W by any reasonable standards, and justify their claims by saying "Oh well my definition is different than yours".
The fact is, P2W would be giving someone a direct advantage that can't be farmed in the game through any amount of time, and GW2 simply has shown no items that do that.
While I remain suspiscious that the game will be P2W,.
I prefer that it isn't. I want to play this game but I am not paying $60 for a P2W game.
While gray areas are OK to you, they are not to me.
I do appreciate the logical discussion that has takne place over this topic. It does present a reasonable argument. But it's HARDLY been disproved.
NOTHING has failed to prove anyting either way. All it does is raise awareness to what needs to be watched.
And it's still more than "Cosmetic Only"
*facepalm*
It has nothing to do with the semantics of what P2W is. People aren't stupid, they know what P2W is. What most people don't know however, is exactly what is in the beta cash shop. But it currently can't be discussed publicly because of the NDA. That said, just because you're oblivious to the existence of something, it doesn't mean it's not there, and therefore concerns of potential P2W are just as relevant as those who have none at this point.
This is very true.
Until NDA is dropped and A.net says "all items in the shop are now official" we really don't know...
When that point comes, we can have an honest debate about what is P2Win and what isn't.
In the mean time, I like to follow the old saying "go with what you know."
Which pretty much means "try and base your expectations on what is currently out there that you can verify."
Guild Wars 1 was/is highly regarded to not be Pay 2 Win, so "going with what I know" would suggest that Guild Wars 2 won't be either.
Again, however, none of us can be sure until that magical day there is no more NDA and everything in the shop is made official.
The fact is that the game has no subscription fee. In other words, you're saving $15 every month. If you're so worried that the game offers some sort of an advantage with a cash shop, take that $15 you would otherwise pay, and buy yourself some cash shop advantages.
If you have such an issue with GW2's cash shop, I'm curious to know how you feel about TSW's cash shop? That game will have a box fee, subscription cost and a cash shop.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Wheeeeee.... that was a good laugh.
People are smart and logical? Yeah right.... and I'm Bill Gates. People are masses of retardedness.
Gimme a break... Now the fanboys and PR-fiends have brainwashed you as well?
Take 1 min and think about what that statement truly means.
Done?
Yep, that definition means that GW2's cash shop may operate EXACTLY like any P2W cash shop out there, by offering items for cash that are otherwise ridiculously hard to get.
Even Anet's Colin himself has meanwhile apologized for the wording. Luckly, the CS doesn't offer direct stat boosts, except that it currently allows you to sell gems for gold to get WvW buffs.
Hype train -> Reality
Don't like what their doing?
Don't buy it. Don't play it.
These companies do not hear you. They will only pay attention to their bottom line. Vote with your wallet.
Refugee from UO,EQ,AC,AC2,AO,DAOC,L2,SB,HZ,CoH,PT,EQ2,WoW,VG,SWG,EVE,WAR,DF,MO,AI,GA,LOTRO, SWTOR... Gw2 on Deck
Then call me stupid for wanting to make 100% certain that I am not paying a boxed fee for P2W, I can save my money and go play PWI or Rappelz for free then.
@Heartless, Please don't tell me how and why it's ok to decide on what to spend my money on. OK? Thanks
However, that's the exact same gold the person you traded for could have used for buffs himself, or a new piece of armor, etc. You make it sound like there's new gold being introduced into the system when it's only a redistribution of pre-existing gold. Instead of Player "A" buying the buffs, he traded his gold to you for your gems. Now you buy the buffs and he has the gems.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Don't try to reason with him, just let him flame on, there is no helping him. We are just fanboi's and are oblivious to the proof that it is P2W.
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
Eh... you're probably right. I just have this thing about hating to leave blatant misinformation unchallenged.
Oderint, dum metuant.
as do i, but when you ask for proof, or links to what causes it to be pay2win they say we are twisting the thread, or are blind, or something, It is a lost cause, but one that i am sure will be picked back up in about..... 11 days?
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
Same thing i responded to that last time: So?
That other player will spend his gems on the CS, and i got my buffs. What's your point?
Hype train -> Reality
That it isn't pay to win, simple enough. You can't purchase a "win button" so to speak from the cash shop. There's nothing in the shop itself you can buy that will make you more powerful than anything available in game, and gems don't provide power, they only redistribute wealth.
Oderint, dum metuant.
This new defense of the cash shop is taking this "holistic view of the economy" in order to justify it. Basically that if you net-sum all the advantages for every person in the game it sums to zero. It is hilarious to see the contortions that the aplogists go through in order to try and pretend it isn't pay2win. It's like saying there is no evil in the world because for each criminal there is a police officer and it all averages out.
The method of how the gold gets to the pay2winner is irrelvant...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
The point is the the gold was already there. It didn't magically appear. The gold just traded hands. Instead of buying your gems, the person could've just purchased the buffs himself.
The buffs in question apply to all of your allies, meaning everyone from your server who is helping you defend your keep, not just your guild members. Does it really matter who activates those buffs if everyone gets a bonus?
Let's say, hypothetically, that one of the boosts available in the cash shop increased the amount of currency dropped for the purchaser for a period of time.
Would this not be magically creating additional currency out of thin air? Would it cross the line into P2W territory?
I pose this hypothetical boost as other NCsoft games have such in their own cash shop.
Your problem is that you assume that gems will be a highly valuable commodity and everyone will be tripping over themselves in order to farm enough gold to buy your gems. They will not be. Gold buys you more important things like influence, armor, weapons, crafting mats, repairs.
Look objectively at what can be purchased with gems in the cash shop. Now look objectively at what can be purchased with gold. Who in their right mind would waste their gold to get your gems and gimp themselves in the process?
The fact is, P2W would be giving someone a direct advantage that can't be farmed in the game through any amount of time, and GW2 simply has shown no items that do that.
*facepalm*
It has nothing to do with the semantics of what P2W is. People aren't stupid, they know what P2W is. What most people don't know however, is exactly what is in the beta cash shop. But it currently can't be discussed publicly because of the NDA. That said, just because you're oblivious to the existence of something, it doesn't mean it's not there, and therefore concerns of potential P2W are just as relevant as those who have none at this point.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Wheeeeee.... that was a good laugh.
People are smart and logical? Yeah right.... and I'm Bill Gates. People are masses of retardedness.
Then call me stupid for wanting to make 100% certain that I am not paying a boxed fee for P2W, I can save my money and go play PWI or Rappelz for free then.
@Heartless, Please don't tell me how and why it's ok to decide on what to spend my money on. OK? Thanks
If you want to play P2W games with naff graphics, no RPG elements , uninspired professions and the NEED to use the cash shop then feel free
People forget that GW2 looks pretty amazing and shaping up to be on the same level, if not superior than most P2P so called triple AAA titles. I'm not excusing any P2W in GW2, I have my concerns too but let's not forget what we are paying for.
I'm worried that there could be an advantage for those that throw masses of money at it, we simply don't know until we see how it really works, I'm comfortable with Anets history and hope that they won't be doing anything that gives any real advantage via the trade of gems or items in their store, I'm not convinced my envisioned world of fun in GW2 is at it's end yet and neither should you be until you see the real facts about the system, unless of course you had no intention of playing in the first place.
None of us know how long until release, we know Anet iterate, nothing we see is set in stone.
Anet's profits depend entirely on how desirable these gems are. They will ensure that people want them. It is the nature of the beast.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
This is not an NCSoft game. It's an ArenaNet game. They operate autonomously from NCSoft.
However, in that case, sure it will be creating gold out of thin air. However, in order for it to be truly unbalanced, the amount of gold created has to be pretty significant.