A lot of people really couldn't care less how Anonymous player no.76567575 acquired their bear pelt cloak.
I understand your point of view and stand by your right to have an opinion.
Now, let's imagine Anonymous player no.76567575 is a Harward coleague or work place coleague.
You go to work everyday to put food on the table / buy that dream car / buy that bear pelt cloack
You get payed decently for your work.
Anonymous player no.76567575 has TONS of money and pays the Harward board for some benefits, the same benefits you will not get.
Or, as a work coleague, Anonymous player no.76567575 will take your boss to golf and other social gatherings and so, will advance way faster on the chain, while you, bacause you do not have his/her money, will barely (if ever) rise in your firm.
Just hypothetical: you will not feel just a bit upset about the situation? Or a bit more?
Bacause I know I will. I also know life in general is not fair, but I guess at least in a fantasy world, we can try making it fair.
I for one play MMO games to be competitive. I surely do not think you play just to watch the beautiful sunset over some virtual generated mountain.
A penny for your thougths?
Well, I'll start by saying I play less competitively than you, and that colors my opinions. However, I feel there's a HUGE difference between someone using unfair advantages to get themselves a high-paying career in real life, and someone doing it to get a few little pixels in a game.
Also, your use of the word "Never" bothers me. So far, we've not seen any indication that there's anything a cash shop using player can get that another player never can. In addition, there are caps. Level caps, gold caps, etc. Eventually, even if that person is ahead, they hit the apex, and then everyone else catches up. It ceases to matter over time. Unless, of course, getting there first is your goal.
Lastly, skill factors in too. That person might have slightly shinier gear, but Anet has repeatedly said there won't be the kind of exponential gear progression we're used to in WoW and other games. Your ability as a player will impact things a lot more therefore, and could be an equalizer.
It's only human nature for unevolved sub-humans. A lot of people really couldn't care less how Anonymous player no.76567575 acquired their bear pelt cloak. It certainly doesnt bother me in the slightest as it obviously doesnt make any difference to me. How would you even know their method of getting it?
Guess what? Someone you dont know or care about who passed you in the street is wearing a jacket that you dont have. They may have gotten it for free. Oh my god! What a horrific thought!
GW2 is fine as it is. I hope more mmos follow their lead. Subscription fees are a load of bollocks
Not surprised you used costumes / deco items as your example. Most people can handle cash shops that don't sell advantage items.
LOL. Maybe religion will unite the world as well. About just as bloody likely...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Originally posted by thinktank001 Originally posted by neonwire It's only human nature for unevolved sub-humans. A lot of people really couldn't care less how Anonymous player no.76567575 acquired their bear pelt cloak. It certainly doesnt bother me in the slightest as it obviously doesnt make any difference to me. How would you even know their method of getting it? Guess what? Someone you dont know or care about who passed you in the street is wearing a jacket that you dont have. They may have gotten it for free. Oh my god! What a horrific thought! GW2 is fine as it is. I hope more mmos follow their lead. Subscription fees are a load of bollocks
Not surprised you used costumes / deco items as your example. Most people can handle cash shops that don't sell advantage items.
You know, I read that and I thought the same thing..."What about the other items?" But you beat me to it.. But the other side of this is the overwhelming idea that the Item Shop is fine as it is. People are saying it has exactly what they said it would have. But. What does it have exactly? Isn't it still under NDA? I assume everyone is looking at the items that were leaked. As if that's going to be the end all be all to the shop. no more no less.
They did say they'd beta items. That looks exactly what they were doing. Making a list of the items that might have questionable saleability. Are thse viable items. Will people want them?
That makes perfect sense. I mean only 4 costume items in the shop? There won't be more? Same goes for all the other categories.
There will be much more than what was leaked. We just haven't see the stuff they are betting are surefire sales.
It's only human nature for unevolved sub-humans. A lot of people really couldn't care less how Anonymous player no.76567575 acquired their bear pelt cloak. It certainly doesnt bother me in the slightest as it obviously doesnt make any difference to me. How would you even know their method of getting it?
Guess what? Someone you dont know or care about who passed you in the street is wearing a jacket that you dont have. They may have gotten it for free. Oh my god! What a horrific thought!
GW2 is fine as it is. I hope more mmos follow their lead. Subscription fees are a load of bollocks
Not surprised you used costumes / deco items as your example. Most people can handle cash shops that don't sell advantage items.
You know, I read that and I thought the same thing..."What about the other items?"
But you beat me to it..
But the other side of this is the overwhelming idea that the Item Shop is fine as it is.
People are saying it has exactly what they said it would have.
But. What does it have exactly? Isn't it still under NDA?
I assume everyone is looking at the items that were leaked. As if that's going to be the end all be all to the shop. no more no less.
They did say they'd beta items. That looks exactly what they were doing. Making a list of the items that might have questionable saleability. Are thse viable items. Will people want them?
That makes perfect sense. I mean only 4 costume items in the shop? There won't be more?
Same goes for all the other categories.
There will be much more than what was leaked. We just haven't see the stuff they are betting are surefire sales.
A valid concern. My response?
What we know for fact
1) So far, none of the items leaked really fall under the "P2W" umbrella.
2) Anet has repeatedly said they don't WANT there to be p2w items in the shop.
3) Everything leaked thus far, even if it is 100% accurate at this moment, is beta and therefore not indicative of what will be available at launch, much less 10 months from then.
So what does that tell us?
The possibility exists for Anet to at least try and create a fair cash shop that allows some players a few luxuries without running the rest of us into the 99%.
The possibility also exists for them to do the exact opposite of that.
They've made promises they won't let that happen.
Promises that can be broken.
However, until they ARE broken, I see no proof of reason to call them liars. Innocent until proven guilty.
It's only human nature for unevolved sub-humans. A lot of people really couldn't care less how Anonymous player no.76567575 acquired their bear pelt cloak. It certainly doesnt bother me in the slightest as it obviously doesnt make any difference to me. How would you even know their method of getting it?
Guess what? Someone you dont know or care about who passed you in the street is wearing a jacket that you dont have. They may have gotten it for free. Oh my god! What a horrific thought!
GW2 is fine as it is. I hope more mmos follow their lead. Subscription fees are a load of bollocks
Not surprised you used costumes / deco items as your example. Most people can handle cash shops that don't sell advantage items.
You know, I read that and I thought the same thing..."What about the other items?"
But you beat me to it..
But the other side of this is the overwhelming idea that the Item Shop is fine as it is.
People are saying it has exactly what they said it would have.
But. What does it have exactly? Isn't it still under NDA?
I assume everyone is looking at the items that were leaked. As if that's going to be the end all be all to the shop. no more no less.
They did say they'd beta items. That looks exactly what they were doing. Making a list of the items that might have questionable saleability. Are thse viable items. Will people want them?
That makes perfect sense. I mean only 4 costume items in the shop? There won't be more?
Same goes for all the other categories.
There will be much more than what was leaked. We just haven't see the stuff they are betting are surefire sales.
I'll say this again. If you were playing WoW, for example, you would be paying $15 every month to maintain your access to the game. GW2 does not charge you a subscription fee. So if you're really so deeply worried about someone using an XP scroll or a mystic key, take that $15 you save and buy yourself some of those unfair advantages.
Problem solved. Now you can start campaigning against games that have cash shops and charge you a monthly fee. Which is basically all of them.
Originally posted by terrant Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Originally posted by thinktank001
Originally posted by neonwire It's only human nature for unevolved sub-humans. A lot of people really couldn't care less how Anonymous player no.76567575 acquired their bear pelt cloak. It certainly doesnt bother me in the slightest as it obviously doesnt make any difference to me. How would you even know their method of getting it? Guess what? Someone you dont know or care about who passed you in the street is wearing a jacket that you dont have. They may have gotten it for free. Oh my god! What a horrific thought! GW2 is fine as it is. I hope more mmos follow their lead. Subscription fees are a load of bollocks
Not surprised you used costumes / deco items as your example. Most people can handle cash shops that don't sell advantage items.
You know, I read that and I thought the same thing..."What about the other items?" But you beat me to it.. But the other side of this is the overwhelming idea that the Item Shop is fine as it is. People are saying it has exactly what they said it would have. But. What does it have exactly? Isn't it still under NDA? I assume everyone is looking at the items that were leaked. As if that's going to be the end all be all to the shop. no more no less. They did say they'd beta items. That looks exactly what they were doing. Making a list of the items that might have questionable saleability. Are thse viable items. Will people want them? That makes perfect sense. I mean only 4 costume items in the shop? There won't be more? Same goes for all the other categories. There will be much more than what was leaked. We just haven't see the stuff they are betting are surefire sales. A valid concern. My response?
What we know for fact 1) So far, none of the items leaked really fall under the "P2W" umbrella. 2) Anet has repeatedly said they don't WANT there to be p2w items in the shop. 3) Everything leaked thus far, even if it is 100% accurate at this moment, is beta and therefore not indicative of what will be available at launch, much less 10 months from then.
So what does that tell us?
The possibility exists for Anet to at least try and create a fair cash shop that allows some players a few luxuries without running the rest of us into the 99%.
The possibility also exists for them to do the exact opposite of that.
They've made promises they won't let that happen. Promises that can be broken. However, until they ARE broken, I see no proof of reason to call them liars. Innocent until proven guilty.
That's probably 1 of the fairest responses I have seen
It's only human nature for unevolved sub-humans. A lot of people really couldn't care less how Anonymous player no.76567575 acquired their bear pelt cloak. It certainly doesnt bother me in the slightest as it obviously doesnt make any difference to me. How would you even know their method of getting it?
Guess what? Someone you dont know or care about who passed you in the street is wearing a jacket that you dont have. They may have gotten it for free. Oh my god! What a horrific thought!
GW2 is fine as it is. I hope more mmos follow their lead. Subscription fees are a load of bollocks
Not surprised you used costumes / deco items as your example. Most people can handle cash shops that don't sell advantage items.
You know, I read that and I thought the same thing..."What about the other items?"
But you beat me to it..
But the other side of this is the overwhelming idea that the Item Shop is fine as it is.
People are saying it has exactly what they said it would have.
But. What does it have exactly? Isn't it still under NDA?
I assume everyone is looking at the items that were leaked. As if that's going to be the end all be all to the shop. no more no less.
They did say they'd beta items. That looks exactly what they were doing. Making a list of the items that might have questionable saleability. Are thse viable items. Will people want them?
That makes perfect sense. I mean only 4 costume items in the shop? There won't be more?
Same goes for all the other categories.
There will be much more than what was leaked. We just haven't see the stuff they are betting are surefire sales.
A valid concern. My response?
What we know for fact
1) So far, none of the items leaked really fall under the "P2W" umbrella.
2) Anet has repeatedly said they don't WANT there to be p2w items in the shop.
3) Everything leaked thus far, even if it is 100% accurate at this moment, is beta and therefore not indicative of what will be available at launch, much less 10 months from then.
So what does that tell us?
The possibility exists for Anet to at least try and create a fair cash shop that allows some players a few luxuries without running the rest of us into the 99%.
The possibility also exists for them to do the exact opposite of that.
They've made promises they won't let that happen. Promises that can be broken. However, until they ARE broken, I see no proof of reason to call them liars. Innocent until proven guilty.
That's probably 1 of the fairest responses I have seen
1) There are pay2win advantages in RvRvR in the beta. And some people consider grind removal pay2win as well, as without paying to remove the grind you must spend time grinding rather than PVPing for instance
2) Anet USED to say they didn't want a pay2win cash shop. Now they say they don't want a cash shop that gives you anything that couldn't be gotten otherwise through "the investment of time." They fully support gold selling now, which in most games is considered pay2win aspect
3) True it is beta. NOW is the time to complain so those items do not make it into cash shop at launch. 10 months down the line though when those initial box sales are sold, they will really hit the pay2win items hard as they already have your box sale money why not?
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Originally posted by neonwire It's only human nature for unevolved sub-humans. A lot of people really couldn't care less how Anonymous player no.76567575 acquired their bear pelt cloak. It certainly doesnt bother me in the slightest as it obviously doesnt make any difference to me. How would you even know their method of getting it? Guess what? Someone you dont know or care about who passed you in the street is wearing a jacket that you dont have. They may have gotten it for free. Oh my god! What a horrific thought! GW2 is fine as it is. I hope more mmos follow their lead. Subscription fees are a load of bollocks
Not surprised you used costumes / deco items as your example. Most people can handle cash shops that don't sell advantage items.
You know, I read that and I thought the same thing..."What about the other items?" But you beat me to it.. But the other side of this is the overwhelming idea that the Item Shop is fine as it is. People are saying it has exactly what they said it would have. But. What does it have exactly? Isn't it still under NDA? I assume everyone is looking at the items that were leaked. As if that's going to be the end all be all to the shop. no more no less. They did say they'd beta items. That looks exactly what they were doing. Making a list of the items that might have questionable saleability. Are thse viable items. Will people want them? That makes perfect sense. I mean only 4 costume items in the shop? There won't be more? Same goes for all the other categories. There will be much more than what was leaked. We just haven't see the stuff they are betting are surefire sales.
A valid concern. My response?
What we know for fact 1) So far, none of the items leaked really fall under the "P2W" umbrella. 2) Anet has repeatedly said they don't WANT there to be p2w items in the shop. 3) Everything leaked thus far, even if it is 100% accurate at this moment, is beta and therefore not indicative of what will be available at launch, much less 10 months from then.
So what does that tell us?
The possibility exists for Anet to at least try and create a fair cash shop that allows some players a few luxuries without running the rest of us into the 99%. The possibility also exists for them to do the exact opposite of that. They've made promises they won't let that happen. Promises that can be broken. However, until they ARE broken, I see no proof of reason to call them liars. Innocent until proven guilty.
That's probably 1 of the fairest responses I have seen
1) There are pay2win advantages in RvRvR in the beta. And some people consider grind removal pay2win as well, as without paying to remove the grind you must spend time grinding rather than PVPing for instance 2) Anet USED to say they didn't want a pay2win cash shop. Now they say they don't want a cash shop that gives you anything that couldn't be gotten otherwise through "the investment of time." They fully support gold selling now, which in most games is considered pay2win aspect 3) True it is beta. NOW is the time to complain so those items do not make it into cash shop at launch. 10 months down the line though when those initial box sales are sold, they will really hit the pay2win items hard as they already have your box sale money why not?
Ironically enough. XP Boosts do not bother me. Coming from Anarchy Online, XP boosts have been associated with in game mechanics. From my experience there, I can tell you that people who level too quickly run the risk of doing more harm than good. Leveling a character beyond your ability to pay for training and upgrades, etc. Can seriously gimp a toon. I have never seen XP boost buffs as P2W items.
That said, I am concerned with how the specific wording surrounding the shop has changed. But the only thing we can do now is wait.
It's only human nature for unevolved sub-humans. A lot of people really couldn't care less how Anonymous player no.76567575 acquired their bear pelt cloak. It certainly doesnt bother me in the slightest as it obviously doesnt make any difference to me. How would you even know their method of getting it?
Guess what? Someone you dont know or care about who passed you in the street is wearing a jacket that you dont have. They may have gotten it for free. Oh my god! What a horrific thought!
GW2 is fine as it is. I hope more mmos follow their lead. Subscription fees are a load of bollocks
Not surprised you used costumes / deco items as your example. Most people can handle cash shops that don't sell advantage items.
You know, I read that and I thought the same thing..."What about the other items?"
But you beat me to it..
But the other side of this is the overwhelming idea that the Item Shop is fine as it is.
People are saying it has exactly what they said it would have.
But. What does it have exactly? Isn't it still under NDA?
I assume everyone is looking at the items that were leaked. As if that's going to be the end all be all to the shop. no more no less.
They did say they'd beta items. That looks exactly what they were doing. Making a list of the items that might have questionable saleability. Are thse viable items. Will people want them?
That makes perfect sense. I mean only 4 costume items in the shop? There won't be more?
Same goes for all the other categories.
There will be much more than what was leaked. We just haven't see the stuff they are betting are surefire sales.
A valid concern. My response?
What we know for fact
1) So far, none of the items leaked really fall under the "P2W" umbrella.
2) Anet has repeatedly said they don't WANT there to be p2w items in the shop.
3) Everything leaked thus far, even if it is 100% accurate at this moment, is beta and therefore not indicative of what will be available at launch, much less 10 months from then.
So what does that tell us?
The possibility exists for Anet to at least try and create a fair cash shop that allows some players a few luxuries without running the rest of us into the 99%.
The possibility also exists for them to do the exact opposite of that. They've made promises they won't let that happen. Promises that can be broken. However, until they ARE broken, I see no proof of reason to call them liars. Innocent until proven guilty.
That's probably 1 of the fairest responses I have seen
1) There are pay2win advantages in RvRvR in the beta. And some people consider grind removal pay2win as well, as without paying to remove the grind you must spend time grinding rather than PVPing for instance
2) Anet USED to say they didn't want a pay2win cash shop. Now they say they don't want a cash shop that gives you anything that couldn't be gotten otherwise through "the investment of time." They fully support gold selling now, which in most games is considered pay2win aspect
3) True it is beta. NOW is the time to complain so those items do not make it into cash shop at launch. 10 months down the line though when those initial box sales are sold, they will really hit the pay2win items hard as they already have your box sale money why not?
Ironically enough. XP Boosts do not bother me. Coming from Anarchy Online, XP boosts have been associated with in game mechanics. From my experience there, I can tell you that people who level too quickly run the risk of doing more harm than good.
Leveling a character beyond your ability to pay for training and upgrades, etc. Can seriously gimp a toon.
I have never seen XP boost buffs as P2W items.
I was referring to buying influence, which impacts RvRvR PVP. But the notion of paying to reduce grind (experience, money for repairs, grinding for "mystic keys," etc) is considered pay2win by many...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
1) There are pay2win advantages in RvRvR in the beta. And some people consider grind removal pay2win as well, as without paying to remove the grind you must spend time grinding rather than PVPing for instance
2) Anet USED to say they didn't want a pay2win cash shop. Now they say they don't want a cash shop that gives you anything that couldn't be gotten otherwise through "the investment of time." They fully support gold selling now, which in most games is considered pay2win aspect
3) True it is beta. NOW is the time to complain so those items do not make it into cash shop at launch. 10 months down the line though when those initial box sales are sold, they will really hit the pay2win items hard as they already have your box sale money why not?
1) What p2w advantages are there in beta, praytell? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt to show them to me, but thus far in the leaked materials I've seen nothing of the sort. I will accept that to some the advantage of reduced time/grind to a goal could be considered p2w. In my own personal definition, p2w only applies if I cannot possibly ever complete with a player using these items unless I purchase them myself. Thus far I've seen none of that either.
2) And the important factor here will be the scale of money:time. If a cash shop player can get something in seconds that cost me months or YEARS of work, it would be exceptionally frustrating, yes. If he shaved off a couple days, it really doesn't affect me. We'll see which it turns out to be in the end. Based on the leaked things we've seen, the gains appear to be short term. Yes gold selling can be p2w, in an environment where gold is tradeable for anything. Since karma and influence seem to matter more, that is debatable. Yes, WvWvW seige items cost gold, but just based on the videos and such I've seen, supply will be a bigger roadblock. Again, we'll have to see how this plays out, but for now I'm content to look forward to the game with reserved optimism.
3) 100000% agreed. You SHOULD voice your concerns. A great way to do that is to say "Anet, please don't allow cash shop players to have unfair advantages over other playeres, because x". A BAD way to say that is "FACT: Anet is going to let a level 1 with a credit card own everybody and there's nothing you can do unless you buy stuff too because all they care about is money." One is a reasoned statement expressing concern; the other is the blathering of an idiot. Mind you, some of the blind defense of the game coming from the "pro GW2" side is just as stupid.
Here's another thing to consider: Everyone is right. Anet wants to make money. Holy crap, imagine a business wanting to do that.
Now, let's talk business. You offer a free service, but provide people with more if they pay. OK, that's fine. Then let's say you make it so the people that pay get all sorts of awesome amenities freebies don't. Sucks, but OK.Now, let's go the panic route many here have gone down: You create a situation of constant economic escalation where people must throw money at you to be able to be even remotely satisfied with your product. Unless you're Apple, that never works. People get fed up and move on to a competitor. Hopefully Anet will not be that stupid.
Originally posted by neonwire It's only human nature for unevolved sub-humans. A lot of people really couldn't care less how Anonymous player no.76567575 acquired their bear pelt cloak. It certainly doesnt bother me in the slightest as it obviously doesnt make any difference to me. How would you even know their method of getting it? Guess what? Someone you dont know or care about who passed you in the street is wearing a jacket that you dont have. They may have gotten it for free. Oh my god! What a horrific thought! GW2 is fine as it is. I hope more mmos follow their lead. Subscription fees are a load of bollocks
Not surprised you used costumes / deco items as your example. Most people can handle cash shops that don't sell advantage items.
You know, I read that and I thought the same thing..."What about the other items?" But you beat me to it.. But the other side of this is the overwhelming idea that the Item Shop is fine as it is. People are saying it has exactly what they said it would have. But. What does it have exactly? Isn't it still under NDA? I assume everyone is looking at the items that were leaked. As if that's going to be the end all be all to the shop. no more no less. They did say they'd beta items. That looks exactly what they were doing. Making a list of the items that might have questionable saleability. Are thse viable items. Will people want them? That makes perfect sense. I mean only 4 costume items in the shop? There won't be more? Same goes for all the other categories. There will be much more than what was leaked. We just haven't see the stuff they are betting are surefire sales.
A valid concern. My response?
What we know for fact 1) So far, none of the items leaked really fall under the "P2W" umbrella. 2) Anet has repeatedly said they don't WANT there to be p2w items in the shop. 3) Everything leaked thus far, even if it is 100% accurate at this moment, is beta and therefore not indicative of what will be available at launch, much less 10 months from then.
So what does that tell us?
The possibility exists for Anet to at least try and create a fair cash shop that allows some players a few luxuries without running the rest of us into the 99%. The possibility also exists for them to do the exact opposite of that. They've made promises they won't let that happen. Promises that can be broken. However, until they ARE broken, I see no proof of reason to call them liars. Innocent until proven guilty.
That's probably 1 of the fairest responses I have seen
1) There are pay2win advantages in RvRvR in the beta. And some people consider grind removal pay2win as well, as without paying to remove the grind you must spend time grinding rather than PVPing for instance 2) Anet USED to say they didn't want a pay2win cash shop. Now they say they don't want a cash shop that gives you anything that couldn't be gotten otherwise through "the investment of time." They fully support gold selling now, which in most games is considered pay2win aspect 3) True it is beta. NOW is the time to complain so those items do not make it into cash shop at launch. 10 months down the line though when those initial box sales are sold, they will really hit the pay2win items hard as they already have your box sale money why not?
Ironically enough. XP Boosts do not bother me. Coming from Anarchy Online, XP boosts have been associated with in game mechanics. From my experience there, I can tell you that people who level too quickly run the risk of doing more harm than good. Leveling a character beyond your ability to pay for training and upgrades, etc. Can seriously gimp a toon. I have never seen XP boost buffs as P2W items.
I was referring to buying influence, which impacts RvRvR PVP. But the notion of paying to reduce grind (experience, money for repairs, grinding for "mystic keys," etc) is considered pay2win by many...
Yeah.....I still have to wonder about that. I am also worried about this mult guild selection where people can change hats which ever way the winds of war are blowing that day....and that is going to somehow force Guild Leaders to compete for players and to do that, CS items will be needed to keep up. It may not grant guilds direct advantages in PVP or what not, but I can see the potential for abuse in keeping loyal players to rep certain guilds with "Stuff"
And while not directly P2W, it does still could end up forcing purchases by guild leaders to compete.
I am also worried about this mult guild selection where people can change hats which ever way the winds of war are blowing that day....and that is going to somehow force Guild Leaders to compete for players and to do that, CS items will be needed to keep up. It may not grant guilds direct advantages in PVP or what not, but I can see the potential for abuse in keeping loyal players to rep certain guilds with "Stuff"
And while not directly P2W, it does still could end up forcing purchases by guild leaders to compete.
How did you come to that conclusion? There is nothing in the CS that offers anything to guild leaders who want to compete for players. Unless the guild leader wants to win players over by buying them that top hat, then I'll be the first to sign up.
These anti-cash shop theories are becoming more and more ridiculous by the day. Keep at it, guys, the theories are very entertaining to read.
Originally posted by heartless Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Yeah.....I still have to wonder about that. I am also worried about this mult guild selection where people can change hats which ever way the winds of war are blowing that day....and that is going to somehow force Guild Leaders to compete for players and to do that, CS items will be needed to keep up. It may not grant guilds direct advantages in PVP or what not, but I can see the potential for abuse in keeping loyal players to rep certain guilds with "Stuff" And while not directly P2W, it does still could end up forcing purchases by guild leaders to compete.
How did you come to that conclusion? There is nothing in the CS that offers anything to guild leaders who want to compete for players. Unless the guild leader wants to win players over by buying them that top hat, then I'll be the first to sign up. These anti-cash shop theories are becoming more and more ridiculous by the day. Keep at it, guys, the theories are very entertaining to read.
Money will get you gems, right? Gems will get you cash-shop items right? Gems can not be gotten ingame. People who does not want or can, will be after those gems and will make decent offers in gold and any other value items they can farm. Am I the only one who is concerned about the ingame economy? Not time spend nor droprate will determine the value of goods. It's the players who need gold and their willingness to pay real money. How much ingame gold will these players need? They are not going to buy 100 gems per week, just to become the richest player ingame. Supply and demand, the supply of gems will always be lower than the demand. Especially when extra vaultspace, character slots and other nifty account perks which can't be unlocked ingame are added to the shop.
Adressing topic: The whole PC gamer interview was just excuses and obvious bs attempts to justify the microtransactions and gems. He swings from friends playing together to F2P games in his attempt to win us over to microtransactions. The game costs $60, and Arenanet needs to change that or stop attempting to convince us that it's a F2P game and needs a cash shop.
Originally posted by Khealler Money will get you gems, right? Gems will get you cash-shop items right? Gems can not be gotten ingame. People who does not want or can, will be after those gems and will make decent offers in gold and any other value items they can farm. Am I the only one who is concerned about the ingame economy? Not time spend nor droprate will determine the value of goods. It's the players who need gold and their willingness to pay real money. How much ingame gold will these players need? They are not going to buy 100 gems per week, just to become the richest player ingame. Supply and demand, the supply of gems will always be lower than the demand. Especially when extra vaultspace, character slots and other nifty account perks which can't be unlocked ingame are added to the shop.
This is a major concern, but ultimately, it's going to be determined by what gems can buy from the cash shop and how valuable those items are. Which is a huge unknown at this point.
Money will get you gems, right? Gems will get you cash-shop items right? Gems can not be gotten ingame. People who does not want or can, will be after those gems and will make decent offers in gold and any other value items they can farm. Am I the only one who is concerned about the ingame economy? Not time spend nor droprate will determine the value of goods. It's the players who need gold and their willingness to pay real money. How much ingame gold will these players need? They are not going to buy 100 gems per week, just to become the richest player ingame. Supply and demand, the supply of gems will always be lower than the demand. Especially when extra vaultspace, character slots and other nifty account perks which can't be unlocked ingame are added to the shop.
If Anet had the cojones they would also make all future expansions and content be purchasable with gems as well. Time will tell if they do this. At least EVE with a similar system allows players to acquire PLEX to pay for their monthly fee (all expansion are free). With GW2 not having monthly fee, the equivalent would be to allow future expansion purchased through gems.
Then at least the pay2win aspect would be more palatable to those who grind lots of gold in-game, as they can get future expansions for free on the backs of the gold buyers.
Anet will show their true colors there. Will they charge EVERYBODY for the expansions or will they allow them to be purchased with gems? Will they really equate time and money, or just for the fluff?
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Originally posted by gainesvilleg Originally posted by Khealler Money will get you gems, right? Gems will get you cash-shop items right? Gems can not be gotten ingame. People who does not want or can, will be after those gems and will make decent offers in gold and any other value items they can farm. Am I the only one who is concerned about the ingame economy? Not time spend nor droprate will determine the value of goods. It's the players who need gold and their willingness to pay real money. How much ingame gold will these players need? They are not going to buy 100 gems per week, just to become the richest player ingame. Supply and demand, the supply of gems will always be lower than the demand. Especially when extra vaultspace, character slots and other nifty account perks which can't be unlocked ingame are added to the shop.
If Anet had the cojones they would also make all future expansions and content be purchasable with gems as well. Time will tell if they do this. At least EVE with a similar system allows players to acquire PLEX to pay for their monthly fee (all expansion are free). With GW2 not having monthly fee, the equivalent would be to allow future expansion purchased through gems. Then at least the pay2win aspect would be more palatable to those who grind lots of gold in-game, as they can get future expansions for free on the backs of the gold buyers. Anet will show their true colors there. Will they charge EVERYBODY for the expansions or will they allow them to be purchased with gems? Will they really equate time and money, or just for the fluff?
That would be among the best uses for the shop to be honest.
Money will get you gems, right? Gems will get you cash-shop items right? Gems can not be gotten ingame. People who does not want or can, will be after those gems and will make decent offers in gold and any other value items they can farm. Am I the only one who is concerned about the ingame economy? Not time spend nor droprate will determine the value of goods. It's the players who need gold and their willingness to pay real money. How much ingame gold will these players need? They are not going to buy 100 gems per week, just to become the richest player ingame. Supply and demand, the supply of gems will always be lower than the demand. Especially when extra vaultspace, character slots and other nifty account perks which can't be unlocked ingame are added to the shop.
There are a lot of "ifs" in that statement. First, the cash shop needs to have something that a player would want. Second that player needs to not have enough real money to purchase the gems himself. Third, the player in question needs to be content with gimping his character in order to get those gems, since gold buys you more tangible rewards--weapons, armor, influence, crafting mats, repairs, etc. I mean, think about it, would you want to give up most of your gold just to get an extra character slot or an hour long XP bonus?
I actually think that it will be the opposite. The supply of gems will be much higher than the demand. Most people who would want the stuff in the cash shop will just buy the gems with cash directly from Anet. It's faster and more convenient. Besides, we're all saving $15 a month with this game and I for one don't have an issue of applying that extra money towards a bank slot or a fansy hat.
Money will get you gems, right? Gems will get you cash-shop items right? Gems can not be gotten ingame. People who does not want or can, will be after those gems and will make decent offers in gold and any other value items they can farm. Am I the only one who is concerned about the ingame economy? Not time spend nor droprate will determine the value of goods. It's the players who need gold and their willingness to pay real money. How much ingame gold will these players need? They are not going to buy 100 gems per week, just to become the richest player ingame. Supply and demand, the supply of gems will always be lower than the demand. Especially when extra vaultspace, character slots and other nifty account perks which can't be unlocked ingame are added to the shop.
If Anet had the cojones they would also make all future expansions and content be purchasable with gems as well. Time will tell if they do this. At least EVE with a similar system allows players to acquire PLEX to pay for their monthly fee (all expansion are free). With GW2 not having monthly fee, the equivalent would be to allow future expansion purchased through gems.
Then at least the pay2win aspect would be more palatable to those who grind lots of gold in-game, as they can get future expansions for free on the backs of the gold buyers.
Anet will show their true colors there. Will they charge EVERYBODY for the expansions or will they allow them to be purchased with gems? Will they really equate time and money, or just for the fluff?
That would be among the best uses for the shop to be honest.
If expansions are allowed to be bought with gems, the ingame economy is still affected by real money.
Money will get you gems, right? Gems will get you cash-shop items right? Gems can not be gotten ingame. People who does not want or can, will be after those gems and will make decent offers in gold and any other value items they can farm. Am I the only one who is concerned about the ingame economy? Not time spend nor droprate will determine the value of goods. It's the players who need gold and their willingness to pay real money. How much ingame gold will these players need? They are not going to buy 100 gems per week, just to become the richest player ingame. Supply and demand, the supply of gems will always be lower than the demand. Especially when extra vaultspace, character slots and other nifty account perks which can't be unlocked ingame are added to the shop.
If Anet had the cojones they would also make all future expansions and content be purchasable with gems as well. Time will tell if they do this. At least EVE with a similar system allows players to acquire PLEX to pay for their monthly fee (all expansion are free). With GW2 not having monthly fee, the equivalent would be to allow future expansion purchased through gems.
Then at least the pay2win aspect would be more palatable to those who grind lots of gold in-game, as they can get future expansions for free on the backs of the gold buyers.
Anet will show their true colors there. Will they charge EVERYBODY for the expansions or will they allow them to be purchased with gems? Will they really equate time and money, or just for the fluff?
That would be among the best uses for the shop to be honest.
If expansions are allowed to be bought with gems, the ingame economy is still affected by real money.
Yes that is correct. However, Anet has already basically said they will allow purchase of gold with real money via gems. That ship has sailed. At this point, the game has entered pay2win territory to many (gray area at best depending on your definition of pay2win) so now the question is, what is the pay2win system that is most fair to those who DONT pay2win?
This is where the EVE model shows its strength because
It is somewhat integrated into economy in a way that EVE has found works well. The EVE system is more pure than the GW2 system but at least in terms of acquisition of ISK/gold they are the same
It is palatable to veterans or grinders because they actually benefit financially themselves. The vets sell their ISK/gold for PLEX which they get to use to fund their monthly subscription fee
The pay2win crowd likes it because they get to buy PLEX for real life money and trade it to veterans for ISK/gold
CCP makes more money at least in the short term
Now, if GW2 only allows gems to buy the fluffy items in store it just isn't enough compensation for many who are against pay2win. But if Anet says "You will be able to purchase future expansions via gems" then it becomes more interesting. The player who plays more gets to benefit PERSONALLY from the pay2winners and is compensated enough to accept it.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Originally posted by Khealler Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Khealler Money will get you gems, right? Gems will get you cash-shop items right? Gems can not be gotten ingame. People who does not want or can, will be after those gems and will make decent offers in gold and any other value items they can farm. Am I the only one who is concerned about the ingame economy? Not time spend nor droprate will determine the value of goods. It's the players who need gold and their willingness to pay real money. How much ingame gold will these players need? They are not going to buy 100 gems per week, just to become the richest player ingame. Supply and demand, the supply of gems will always be lower than the demand. Especially when extra vaultspace, character slots and other nifty account perks which can't be unlocked ingame are added to the shop.
If Anet had the cojones they would also make all future expansions and content be purchasable with gems as well. Time will tell if they do this. At least EVE with a similar system allows players to acquire PLEX to pay for their monthly fee (all expansion are free). With GW2 not having monthly fee, the equivalent would be to allow future expansion purchased through gems. Then at least the pay2win aspect would be more palatable to those who grind lots of gold in-game, as they can get future expansions for free on the backs of the gold buyers. Anet will show their true colors there. Will they charge EVERYBODY for the expansions or will they allow them to be purchased with gems? Will they really equate time and money, or just for the fluff?
That would be among the best uses for the shop to be honest. If expansions are allowed to be bought with gems, the ingame economy is still affected by real money.
Unfortunately, there is no getting around it. RMT is in GW2, ANet and NCSoft want a piece of that pie. Gold Farmers have been around since the dawn of MMOs, but only the players ballsy enough to risk a ban bought. But now, many many more will. So yeah, I think the economy itself will be based totally on the value of gems and how many players buy them.
Comments
Well, I'll start by saying I play less competitively than you, and that colors my opinions. However, I feel there's a HUGE difference between someone using unfair advantages to get themselves a high-paying career in real life, and someone doing it to get a few little pixels in a game.
Also, your use of the word "Never" bothers me. So far, we've not seen any indication that there's anything a cash shop using player can get that another player never can. In addition, there are caps. Level caps, gold caps, etc. Eventually, even if that person is ahead, they hit the apex, and then everyone else catches up. It ceases to matter over time. Unless, of course, getting there first is your goal.
Lastly, skill factors in too. That person might have slightly shinier gear, but Anet has repeatedly said there won't be the kind of exponential gear progression we're used to in WoW and other games. Your ability as a player will impact things a lot more therefore, and could be an equalizer.
Not surprised you used costumes / deco items as your example. Most people can handle cash shops that don't sell advantage items.
Are we united yet?
LOL. Maybe religion will unite the world as well. About just as bloody likely...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Wait. Wait. I am feeling it , it comes ,is is close , omg it is almost here... oh it was just a fart.
Damn. I am sure unity is close though.
Not surprised you used costumes / deco items as your example. Most people can handle cash shops that don't sell advantage items.
You know, I read that and I thought the same thing..."What about the other items?"
But you beat me to it..
But the other side of this is the overwhelming idea that the Item Shop is fine as it is.
People are saying it has exactly what they said it would have.
But. What does it have exactly? Isn't it still under NDA?
I assume everyone is looking at the items that were leaked. As if that's going to be the end all be all to the shop. no more no less.
They did say they'd beta items. That looks exactly what they were doing. Making a list of the items that might have questionable saleability. Are thse viable items. Will people want them?
That makes perfect sense. I mean only 4 costume items in the shop? There won't be more?
Same goes for all the other categories.
There will be much more than what was leaked. We just haven't see the stuff they are betting are surefire sales.
A valid concern. My response?
What we know for fact
1) So far, none of the items leaked really fall under the "P2W" umbrella.
2) Anet has repeatedly said they don't WANT there to be p2w items in the shop.
3) Everything leaked thus far, even if it is 100% accurate at this moment, is beta and therefore not indicative of what will be available at launch, much less 10 months from then.
So what does that tell us?
The possibility exists for Anet to at least try and create a fair cash shop that allows some players a few luxuries without running the rest of us into the 99%.
The possibility also exists for them to do the exact opposite of that.
They've made promises they won't let that happen.
Promises that can be broken.
However, until they ARE broken, I see no proof of reason to call them liars. Innocent until proven guilty.
I'll say this again. If you were playing WoW, for example, you would be paying $15 every month to maintain your access to the game. GW2 does not charge you a subscription fee. So if you're really so deeply worried about someone using an XP scroll or a mystic key, take that $15 you save and buy yourself some of those unfair advantages.
Problem solved. Now you can start campaigning against games that have cash shops and charge you a monthly fee. Which is basically all of them.
Not surprised you used costumes / deco items as your example. Most people can handle cash shops that don't sell advantage items.
You know, I read that and I thought the same thing..."What about the other items?"
But you beat me to it..
But the other side of this is the overwhelming idea that the Item Shop is fine as it is.
People are saying it has exactly what they said it would have.
But. What does it have exactly? Isn't it still under NDA?
I assume everyone is looking at the items that were leaked. As if that's going to be the end all be all to the shop. no more no less.
They did say they'd beta items. That looks exactly what they were doing. Making a list of the items that might have questionable saleability. Are thse viable items. Will people want them?
That makes perfect sense. I mean only 4 costume items in the shop? There won't be more?
Same goes for all the other categories.
There will be much more than what was leaked. We just haven't see the stuff they are betting are surefire sales.
A valid concern. My response?
What we know for fact
1) So far, none of the items leaked really fall under the "P2W" umbrella.
2) Anet has repeatedly said they don't WANT there to be p2w items in the shop.
3) Everything leaked thus far, even if it is 100% accurate at this moment, is beta and therefore not indicative of what will be available at launch, much less 10 months from then.
So what does that tell us?
That's probably 1 of the fairest responses I have seen
1) There are pay2win advantages in RvRvR in the beta. And some people consider grind removal pay2win as well, as without paying to remove the grind you must spend time grinding rather than PVPing for instance
2) Anet USED to say they didn't want a pay2win cash shop. Now they say they don't want a cash shop that gives you anything that couldn't be gotten otherwise through "the investment of time." They fully support gold selling now, which in most games is considered pay2win aspect
3) True it is beta. NOW is the time to complain so those items do not make it into cash shop at launch. 10 months down the line though when those initial box sales are sold, they will really hit the pay2win items hard as they already have your box sale money why not?
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Ironically enough. XP Boosts do not bother me. Coming from Anarchy Online, XP boosts have been associated with in game mechanics. From my experience there, I can tell you that people who level too quickly run the risk of doing more harm than good.
Leveling a character beyond your ability to pay for training and upgrades, etc. Can seriously gimp a toon.
I have never seen XP boost buffs as P2W items.
That said, I am concerned with how the specific wording surrounding the shop has changed. But the only thing we can do now is wait.
I was referring to buying influence, which impacts RvRvR PVP. But the notion of paying to reduce grind (experience, money for repairs, grinding for "mystic keys," etc) is considered pay2win by many...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
1) What p2w advantages are there in beta, praytell? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt to show them to me, but thus far in the leaked materials I've seen nothing of the sort. I will accept that to some the advantage of reduced time/grind to a goal could be considered p2w. In my own personal definition, p2w only applies if I cannot possibly ever complete with a player using these items unless I purchase them myself. Thus far I've seen none of that either.
2) And the important factor here will be the scale of money:time. If a cash shop player can get something in seconds that cost me months or YEARS of work, it would be exceptionally frustrating, yes. If he shaved off a couple days, it really doesn't affect me. We'll see which it turns out to be in the end. Based on the leaked things we've seen, the gains appear to be short term. Yes gold selling can be p2w, in an environment where gold is tradeable for anything. Since karma and influence seem to matter more, that is debatable. Yes, WvWvW seige items cost gold, but just based on the videos and such I've seen, supply will be a bigger roadblock. Again, we'll have to see how this plays out, but for now I'm content to look forward to the game with reserved optimism.
3) 100000% agreed. You SHOULD voice your concerns. A great way to do that is to say "Anet, please don't allow cash shop players to have unfair advantages over other playeres, because x". A BAD way to say that is "FACT: Anet is going to let a level 1 with a credit card own everybody and there's nothing you can do unless you buy stuff too because all they care about is money." One is a reasoned statement expressing concern; the other is the blathering of an idiot. Mind you, some of the blind defense of the game coming from the "pro GW2" side is just as stupid.
Here's another thing to consider: Everyone is right. Anet wants to make money. Holy crap, imagine a business wanting to do that.
Now, let's talk business. You offer a free service, but provide people with more if they pay. OK, that's fine. Then let's say you make it so the people that pay get all sorts of awesome amenities freebies don't. Sucks, but OK.Now, let's go the panic route many here have gone down: You create a situation of constant economic escalation where people must throw money at you to be able to be even remotely satisfied with your product. Unless you're Apple, that never works. People get fed up and move on to a competitor. Hopefully Anet will not be that stupid.
Yeah.....I still have to wonder about that.
I am also worried about this mult guild selection where people can change hats which ever way the winds of war are blowing that day....and that is going to somehow force Guild Leaders to compete for players and to do that, CS items will be needed to keep up. It may not grant guilds direct advantages in PVP or what not, but I can see the potential for abuse in keeping loyal players to rep certain guilds with "Stuff"
And while not directly P2W, it does still could end up forcing purchases by guild leaders to compete.
How did you come to that conclusion? There is nothing in the CS that offers anything to guild leaders who want to compete for players. Unless the guild leader wants to win players over by buying them that top hat, then I'll be the first to sign up.
These anti-cash shop theories are becoming more and more ridiculous by the day. Keep at it, guys, the theories are very entertaining to read.
These anti-cash shop theories are becoming more and more ridiculous by the day. Keep at it, guys, the theories are very entertaining to read.
I didn't come to this conclusion.
Somone else did.
I do not know enough about it yet to say if it's a yay or nay but it does look like a valid concern.
Go read this thread
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/345607/so-wait-a-person-can-have-a-character-in-multiple-guilds.html
the arguments for Guild leaders needing influence bought with gems or what not are in there,
I'm not recapping it here., It's kinda long.
Money will get you gems, right? Gems will get you cash-shop items right? Gems can not be gotten ingame. People who does not want or can, will be after those gems and will make decent offers in gold and any other value items they can farm. Am I the only one who is concerned about the ingame economy? Not time spend nor droprate will determine the value of goods. It's the players who need gold and their willingness to pay real money. How much ingame gold will these players need? They are not going to buy 100 gems per week, just to become the richest player ingame. Supply and demand, the supply of gems will always be lower than the demand. Especially when extra vaultspace, character slots and other nifty account perks which can't be unlocked ingame are added to the shop.
On Influence buying via gold and Guild rewards see: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Influence
and http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zi6GAbVATOA#t=113s
Adressing topic: The whole PC gamer interview was just excuses and obvious bs attempts to justify the microtransactions and gems. He swings from friends playing together to F2P games in his attempt to win us over to microtransactions. The game costs $60, and Arenanet needs to change that or stop attempting to convince us that it's a F2P game and needs a cash shop.
This is a major concern, but ultimately, it's going to be determined by what gems can buy from the cash shop and how valuable those items are. Which is a huge unknown at this point.
If Anet had the cojones they would also make all future expansions and content be purchasable with gems as well. Time will tell if they do this. At least EVE with a similar system allows players to acquire PLEX to pay for their monthly fee (all expansion are free). With GW2 not having monthly fee, the equivalent would be to allow future expansion purchased through gems.
Then at least the pay2win aspect would be more palatable to those who grind lots of gold in-game, as they can get future expansions for free on the backs of the gold buyers.
Anet will show their true colors there. Will they charge EVERYBODY for the expansions or will they allow them to be purchased with gems? Will they really equate time and money, or just for the fluff?
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Then at least the pay2win aspect would be more palatable to those who grind lots of gold in-game, as they can get future expansions for free on the backs of the gold buyers.
Anet will show their true colors there. Will they charge EVERYBODY for the expansions or will they allow them to be purchased with gems? Will they really equate time and money, or just for the fluff?
That would be among the best uses for the shop to be honest.
There are a lot of "ifs" in that statement. First, the cash shop needs to have something that a player would want. Second that player needs to not have enough real money to purchase the gems himself. Third, the player in question needs to be content with gimping his character in order to get those gems, since gold buys you more tangible rewards--weapons, armor, influence, crafting mats, repairs, etc. I mean, think about it, would you want to give up most of your gold just to get an extra character slot or an hour long XP bonus?
I actually think that it will be the opposite. The supply of gems will be much higher than the demand. Most people who would want the stuff in the cash shop will just buy the gems with cash directly from Anet. It's faster and more convenient. Besides, we're all saving $15 a month with this game and I for one don't have an issue of applying that extra money towards a bank slot or a fansy hat.
If expansions are allowed to be bought with gems, the ingame economy is still affected by real money.
Yes that is correct. However, Anet has already basically said they will allow purchase of gold with real money via gems. That ship has sailed. At this point, the game has entered pay2win territory to many (gray area at best depending on your definition of pay2win) so now the question is, what is the pay2win system that is most fair to those who DONT pay2win?
This is where the EVE model shows its strength because
It is somewhat integrated into economy in a way that EVE has found works well. The EVE system is more pure than the GW2 system but at least in terms of acquisition of ISK/gold they are the same
It is palatable to veterans or grinders because they actually benefit financially themselves. The vets sell their ISK/gold for PLEX which they get to use to fund their monthly subscription fee
The pay2win crowd likes it because they get to buy PLEX for real life money and trade it to veterans for ISK/gold
CCP makes more money at least in the short term
Now, if GW2 only allows gems to buy the fluffy items in store it just isn't enough compensation for many who are against pay2win. But if Anet says "You will be able to purchase future expansions via gems" then it becomes more interesting. The player who plays more gets to benefit PERSONALLY from the pay2winners and is compensated enough to accept it.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
If Anet had the cojones they would also make all future expansions and content be purchasable with gems as well. Time will tell if they do this. At least EVE with a similar system allows players to acquire PLEX to pay for their monthly fee (all expansion are free). With GW2 not having monthly fee, the equivalent would be to allow future expansion purchased through gems.
Then at least the pay2win aspect would be more palatable to those who grind lots of gold in-game, as they can get future expansions for free on the backs of the gold buyers.
Anet will show their true colors there. Will they charge EVERYBODY for the expansions or will they allow them to be purchased with gems? Will they really equate time and money, or just for the fluff?
That would be among the best uses for the shop to be honest.
If expansions are allowed to be bought with gems, the ingame economy is still affected by real money.
Unfortunately, there is no getting around it.
RMT is in GW2, ANet and NCSoft want a piece of that pie.
Gold Farmers have been around since the dawn of MMOs, but only the players ballsy enough to risk a ban bought. But now, many many more will. So yeah, I think the economy itself will be based totally on the value of gems and how many players buy them.