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Endgame content

coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon

First off, I would like to mention that I am neither fan, nor hater of GW 2. I am definitely going to buy this game to try it and see if it entertains me or not.

I have played many MMOs in the past, my favorite ones being WoW, Lineage II and Knight Online.

All the MMOs I have played had one thing in common. There was a character progression in terms of level, stats, and gear.

Obviously, the importance of each of the aspects differed in these MMOs.

E.g. in WoW, you hit max level easily and then you grind gear to get stats. In Knight Online, you get the gear relatively easy and then you grind levels. In Lineage II, it was fairly difficult to get it all: stats, gear and levels.

My point is, trying to get either the best gear (which grants you best stats) or as high level as possible was the thing that kept me interested in the game and drove me forward in the game.

I am not 100% sure if I am correct, but from various sources, I obtained an information that in GW 2, you get the maximum level (which should not be very difficult and time consuming) and then you get RELATIVELY easily capped in terms of gear stats and character stats.

What exactly is there that should keep me interested in the game once I hit these caps.

Yes, I have read that you will be able to obtain gear in dungeons, raids, etc which will look different (maybe better, its subjective), but will have the same stats as the one you are capped with. So basically, besides different appearance, the gear is useless, is this correct? I mean is it like I come to the boss and hit him for e.g. 100 dmg. Then I kill him and get this awesome looking huge sword or something. Come next day with this sword equipped and hit the boss again for 100 dmg? (I am aware of the simplicity of the example, I just wanted to make it clear and simple).

For me, MMOs have always been more about my avatar`s/character`s progression rather than hunting for better looks or my own skills of playing the game.

This post is not made in order to attack this game. I was just wondering if I get the endgame principles correctly and how do you guys feel about this. Will simply playing the game be enough to keep you entertained?For me, it just seems a little pointless if I cant get anything out of it in terms of stats, gear, levels or anything that would make my character actually more powerful.

Thanks for comments... 

 

Waiting for L2 EU Classic

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Comments

  • jondifooljondifool cphPosts: 1,114Member

    you can find 10+ threads with that question if you look back on page 2. Basicly there comes a new one each day asking whats the addiction is when comming to endgame!

    Look up what GW1 was about because its actual the same idea ArenaNet repeat. There is basicly 100's off different armours and weapon all having the same powerthreashold, you will have some but not alot when reaching max level. Start collecting them and get more flexibility in how you can setup your character. Thats the most power gain you will get ! Enjoy it!

    read how to create a succesfull mmo before posting about GW2. And read tao of ArenaNet before talking about innovation in GW2

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member

     

    There are a dozen of other threads about this. Go read them.

  • blayugsblayugs edinburghPosts: 108Member

    Guild Wars has never been about gear grinding its always been about skill.

    You play more you get better at playing. If you do not want to play a game that relys purely on skill and not having better gear than the next person to kill them easily in PVP or boast that you do more DPS that another who isnt as geared in PVE then this game isnt for you.

  • pierthpierth San Antonio, TXPosts: 1,503Member

    Doesn't look like the game for you, OP.

  • AnakamiAnakami BielefeldPosts: 103Member

    Originally posted by coretex666

    For me, MMOs have always been more about my avatar`s/character`s progression rather than hunting for better looks or my own skills of playing the game.

     

    Then this game might not be enjoyable for you, because it has been clearly stated that it is indeed about different looks/ purely cosmetic changes after hitting the gear cap (which you probably do pretty fast). It is also about further honing your skills and progressing as a player rather than your character.

     

    For me this is awesome, but I can understand if you enjoy different things :)

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon

    I would be interested in your opinion about it rather than stating that the game is not for me...maybe it will be entertaining for me despite the way it is designed. I would not jump to conclusion a priori.

    You guys believe playing the game itself will be so entertaining that it will keep you interested?

    More serious answers are appreciated

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • RaekonRaekon AugsburgPosts: 553Member

    Originally posted by coretex666

    First off, I would like to mention that I am neither fan, nor hater of GW 2. I am definitely going to buy this game to try it and see if it entertains me or not.

    I have played many MMOs in the past, my favorite ones being WoW, Lineage II and Knight Online.

    All the MMOs I have played had one thing in common. There was a character progression in terms of level, stats, and gear.

    Obviously, the importance of each of the aspects differed in these MMOs.

    E.g. in WoW, you hit max level easily and then you grind gear to get stats. In Knight Online, you get the gear relatively easy and then you grind levels. In Lineage II, it was fairly difficult to get it all: stats, gear and levels.

    My point is, trying to get either the best gear (which grants you best stats) or as high level as possible was the thing that kept me interested in the game and drove me forward in the game.

    I am not 100% sure if I am correct, but from various sources, I obtained an information that in GW 2, you get the maximum level (which should not be very difficult and time consuming) and then you get RELATIVELY easily capped in terms of gear stats and character stats.

    What exactly is there that should keep me interested in the game once I hit these caps.

    Yes, I have read that you will be able to obtain gear in dungeons, raids, etc which will look different (maybe better, its subjective), but will have the same stats as the one you are capped with. So basically, besides different appearance, the gear is useless, is this correct? I mean is it like I come to the boss and hit him for e.g. 100 dmg. Then I kill him and get this awesome looking huge sword or something. Come next day with this sword equipped and hit the boss again for 100 dmg? (I am aware of the simplicity of the example, I just wanted to make it clear and simple).

    For me, MMOs have always been more about my avatar`s/character`s progression rather than hunting for better looks or my own skills of playing the game.

    This post is not made in order to attack this game. I was just wondering if I get the endgame principles correctly and how do you guys feel about this. Will simply playing the game be enough to keep you entertained?For me, it just seems a little pointless if I cant get anything out of it in terms of stats, gear, levels or anything that would make my character actually more powerful.

    Thanks for comments... 

     

    Like in GW1 you will be able to get various runes and armor modifiers as also various pieces like a axe handle and such, you will be able to add in your weapons to change their stats by adding attack, defence, protection, resistance, buff or debuff bonuses (passive or active ones).

    That means that people that love collecting gears or gear pieces you can combine in gears will have tons of things to collect and add or extract from their armors and weapons.

    This gives you the possibility to change your most loved max armor (as a melee lets say with 80 or 95 defence) at all times by changing its buffs, attributes to something else that suits you more and test a lot around till you find what works the best for yourself when it comes to a combination of weapon with certain armor stats applied to your character and the skills you are using, to make yourself as effective as possible.

    Additionaly you can collect many rare gears, titles, mini pets, ranger pets and more which can be added and showcased in your hall of monuments which is a big shrine that holds all your achievements in the game.

    Also after you hit max level you can still gain skill points you can spend to learn more profession based skills so you can have more combination possibilities and diversity in your characters arsenal.

    You can additionaly explore the whole world and participate in events you didn't experienced before since the game won't respawn the same stuff like every 5 - 10 minutes so you will wonder how the guy you killed moments ago is standing all of sudden "safe and sound" on the top of the hill again, waiting for the next player to slain him OR a copy of him spawns right next to you at the time you are still killing the previous spawn.

    You can also see how the storyline of your character unfolds in front of you and changes its direction based on your own decisions which in my opinion helps a lot when it comes to the progression.

    Hope that helps! ^_^

  • EmwynEmwyn MoatshirePosts: 546Member

    Really no one can answer your question but you. People can tell you you will LOVE it. Mostly they don't know, because they are going by what they have read. If they are in beta, they are breaking NDA to tell you any real facts. So what you have to go on are what you read from official sources including press reviews of beta events. Even these will not decide for you if you are going to enjoy end game, middle game or any part of the game. Be as objective as possible as it is better to make this decision without any extreme view one way or the other. I think you are doing a fine job of objectivity so far or you would not be asking these questions. If end game is your biggest worry and you find the end game concept isn't what you are used to, ask yourself if you are willing to try a new way. If not, there is little point. If you think you would like a new experience then go for it. The same goes for every other aspect of the game.

    And so you know, I haven't decided myself if I will play this game. I will make up my mind after release.

    the poster formerly known as melangel :P

  • dzoni87dzoni87 BelgradePosts: 541Member

    To the OP

    I wont attack you, or something simmilar. Let me clarify you: There is nothing bad about differently/better looking Gear. Even if you kill Boss with 100 Dmg over and over again, you will need positioning and tactic to beat him.

    This reminds me of earlier days of Themeparks. Whenever you see the guy with Dragonscale-looking armor, you can tell by him wearing, it that he killed Big Bad Dragon and got his armor. Those Different looking items were predessecors of the achievement system, back in the days when tactic mattered. Now, we have a gear progression system and achievments are those "shiny bars that flash upon your screen" and nothing more.

    You have a ton of videos about GW2 dungeons and how the positioning and tactic matters there.

    Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
    Waiting for: Pathfinder Online

  • blayugsblayugs edinburghPosts: 108Member

    Originally posted by coretex666

    I would be interested in your opinion about it rather than stating that the game is not for me...maybe it will be entertaining for me despite the way it is designed. I would not jump to conclusion a priori.

    You guys believe playing the game itself will be so entertaining that it will keep you interested?

    More serious answers are appreciated

    you wont get more serious answers until either the game is released or the NDA is lifted.

    GW1 is a great system and I hope GW2 will be the same

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Raekon

    Originally posted by coretex666

    First off, I would like to mention that I am neither fan, nor hater of GW 2. I am definitely going to buy this game to try it and see if it entertains me or not.

    I have played many MMOs in the past, my favorite ones being WoW, Lineage II and Knight Online.

    All the MMOs I have played had one thing in common. There was a character progression in terms of level, stats, and gear.

    Obviously, the importance of each of the aspects differed in these MMOs.

    E.g. in WoW, you hit max level easily and then you grind gear to get stats. In Knight Online, you get the gear relatively easy and then you grind levels. In Lineage II, it was fairly difficult to get it all: stats, gear and levels.

    My point is, trying to get either the best gear (which grants you best stats) or as high level as possible was the thing that kept me interested in the game and drove me forward in the game.

    I am not 100% sure if I am correct, but from various sources, I obtained an information that in GW 2, you get the maximum level (which should not be very difficult and time consuming) and then you get RELATIVELY easily capped in terms of gear stats and character stats.

    What exactly is there that should keep me interested in the game once I hit these caps.

    Yes, I have read that you will be able to obtain gear in dungeons, raids, etc which will look different (maybe better, its subjective), but will have the same stats as the one you are capped with. So basically, besides different appearance, the gear is useless, is this correct? I mean is it like I come to the boss and hit him for e.g. 100 dmg. Then I kill him and get this awesome looking huge sword or something. Come next day with this sword equipped and hit the boss again for 100 dmg? (I am aware of the simplicity of the example, I just wanted to make it clear and simple).

    For me, MMOs have always been more about my avatar`s/character`s progression rather than hunting for better looks or my own skills of playing the game.

    This post is not made in order to attack this game. I was just wondering if I get the endgame principles correctly and how do you guys feel about this. Will simply playing the game be enough to keep you entertained?For me, it just seems a little pointless if I cant get anything out of it in terms of stats, gear, levels or anything that would make my character actually more powerful.

    Thanks for comments... 

     

    Like in GW1 you will be able to get various runes and armor modifiers as also various pieces like a axe handle and such, you will be able to add in your weapons to change their stats by adding attack, defence, protection, resistance, buff or debuff bonuses (passive or active ones).

    That means that people that love collecting gears or gear pieces you can combine in gears will have tons of things to collect and add or extract from their armors and weapons.

    This gives you the possibility to change your most loved max armor (as a melee lets say with 80 or 95 defence) at all times by changing its buffs, attributes to something else that suits you more and test a lot around till you find what works the best for yourself when it comes to a combination of weapon with certain armor stats applied to your character and the skills you are using, to make yourself as effective as possible.

    Additionaly you can collect many rare gears, titles, mini pets, ranger pets and more which can be added and showcased in your hall of monuments which is a big shrine that holds all your achievements in the game.

    Also after you hit max level you can still gain skill points you can spend to learn more profession based skills so you can have more combination possibilities and diversity in your characters arsenal.

    You can additionaly explore the whole world and participate in events you didn't experienced before since the game won't respawn the same stuff like every 5 - 10 minutes so you will wonder how the guy you killed moments ago is standing all of sudden "safe and sound" on the top of the hill again, waiting for the next player to slain him OR a copy of him spawns right next to you at the time you are still killing the previous spawn.

    You can also see how the storyline of your character unfolds in front of you and changes its direction based on your own decisions which in my opinion helps a lot when it comes to the progression.

    Hope that helps! ^_^

     I was not aware of the fact that there are these runes and modifiers which, as you mentioned, can make you more effective in various situations. It surely is interesting

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • Rhianni32Rhianni32 Denver, COPosts: 222Member

    Everytime I see a thread where someone asks if there is no gear grind what is there to do I imagine Plato screaming "Just walk out of the cave already!"

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Rhianni32

    Everytime I see a thread where someone asks if there is no gear grind what is there to do I imagine Plato screaming "Just walk out of the cave already!"

     Plato also said that Demos is rather stupid. Funny how you effectively demonstrated two of his ideas in one post. No matter that one of them unintentionally

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • BanquettoBanquetto CityPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by coretex666
    You guys believe playing the game itself will be so entertaining that it will keep you interested?
    The fact that anyone could even ask this question is completely and utterly horrifying.


    What do you play games for if not because playing them entertains you??


    Do you honestly play games that aren't entertaining just to get shiny pixels and bigger numbers on your character sheet? That is beyond tragic.

  • Rhianni32Rhianni32 Denver, COPosts: 222Member

    Originally posted by coretex666

    Originally posted by Rhianni32

    Everytime I see a thread where someone asks if there is no gear grind what is there to do I imagine Plato screaming "Just walk out of the cave already!"

     Plato also said that Demos is rather stupid. Funny how you effectively demonstrated two of his ideas in one post. No matter that one of them unintentionally

    You are really reaching with that one. The common man would be for gear grind aka WoW because that is all they have known and belive that to be the standard. You closing comment even asks if there is no progression what is the point.

    "Will simply playing the game be enough to keep you entertained?For me, it just seems a little pointless if I cant get anything out of it in terms of stats, gear, levels or anything that would make my character actually more powerful."

    The cave alagory is very applicable here.

     

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Banquetto

     




    Originally posted by coretex666

    You guys believe playing the game itself will be so entertaining that it will keep you interested?





    The fact that anyone could even ask this question is completely and utterly horrifying.

     



    What do you play games for if not because playing them entertains you??



    Do you honestly play games that aren't entertaining just to get shiny pixels and bigger numbers on your character sheet? That is beyond tragic.

     Would you play RPG with no levels, stats and drops? Imagine how Diablo would look like without these things.

    Would WoW have so many active players if the system would be like in GW 2?I am not sure

    I actually believe there are many players that are driven by the rewards in RPGs/ MMOs.

    Was Lineage II grindfest enjoyable for everyone because of the actual playing or because once in several months you hit new level?

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • Master10KMaster10K LondonPosts: 3,065Member

    Originally posted by Banquetto




    Originally posted by coretex666

    You guys believe playing the game itself will be so entertaining that it will keep you interested?





    The fact that anyone could even ask this question is completely and utterly horrifying.



    What do you play games for if not because playing them entertains you??



    Do you honestly play games that aren't entertaining just to get shiny pixels and bigger numbers on your character sheet? That is beyond tragic.

    Yeah it is quite sad that in this genre people need something, to work for, in order to continue playing the game and that "something" is usually gear progression. Heck, just look at competitive games like Starcraft or RPGs like the Elder Scrolls games. No gear progression involved yet people come back for more, either to compete or to see something new (like the Skyrim mods).

     

    This is an area where I hope Guild Wars 2 truly breaks the mold; by providing an example of a popular MMORPG that players can continuously come back to, without requiring the usual gear progression treadmill.

    image

  • RaekonRaekon AugsburgPosts: 553Member

    Originally posted by Banquetto

     




    Originally posted by coretex666

    You guys believe playing the game itself will be so entertaining that it will keep you interested?





    The fact that anyone could even ask this question is completely and utterly horrifying.

     



    What do you play games for if not because playing them entertains you??



    Do you honestly play games that aren't entertaining just to get shiny pixels and bigger numbers on your character sheet? That is beyond tragic.

    The really horrifying thing here in my opinion is that he asked for our OPINION and all he gets is bashing, flaming or bad comments.

    Not trying to offend you but check everyones replies and you will see what I mean.

  • Rhianni32Rhianni32 Denver, COPosts: 222Member

    Originally posted by coretex666

     

    I actually believe there are many players that are driven by the rewards in RPGs/ MMOs.

     

    I agree with you here. Players are driven to get a reward from an MMO or any game really. It doesnt have to be measured in terms of +0.4% DPS gain. As another poster said look at starcraft. 

    You give examples of Diablo and WoW. Those are item progression models of rewarding so of course if you take the item progression out of it they would different. What about UO, DAOC, or any of the other MMOs that offer something different?

    If you want item progression that is fine. I should clarify that I am not against you playing how you want if it is character number progression that is fine. I (and others apparently in this thread) am confused that you seem to not even believe that there are other possible types of enjoyment out of an mmo.

  • Master10KMaster10K LondonPosts: 3,065Member

    Originally posted by Raekon

    *snip*

    The really horrifying thing here in my opinion is that he asked for our OPINION and all he gets is bashing, flaming or bad comments.

    Not trying to offend you but check everyones replies and you will see what I mean.

    You simply can't blame anyone at this point, when the same topic of GW2's "supposed lack of" Endgame Content & Endgame Progression is brought up every single day and the OP could simply have just sift through the answers on the previous threads.

    image

  • JesseBFoxJesseBFox Tallahassee, FLPosts: 134Member

    Originally posted by coretex666

    Originally posted by Banquetto

     




    Originally posted by coretex666

    You guys believe playing the game itself will be so entertaining that it will keep you interested?





    The fact that anyone could even ask this question is completely and utterly horrifying.

     



    What do you play games for if not because playing them entertains you??



    Do you honestly play games that aren't entertaining just to get shiny pixels and bigger numbers on your character sheet? That is beyond tragic.

     Would you play RPG with no levels, stats and drops? Imagine how Diablo would look like without these things.

    Would WoW have so many active players if the system would be like in GW 2?I am not sure

    I actually believe there are many players that are driven by the rewards in RPGs/ MMOs.

    Was Lineage II grindfest enjoyable for everyone because of the actual playing or because once in several months you hit new level?

    Yes I would play a RPG with no levels stats and drops. You know, if it was fun. There are games in other genres where this happens constantly and it is still fun if done right. Strategy games, adventure games, competetive multiplayer games. Oh and here is another that effectively has no real levels, drops or stats.... Guild Wars 1.

    A lot of people play and like Guild Wars 1, and in that game you get max level in under 2 days and about that time get max gear. You may only have a +41 health rune on at that time but if it is important to you, you could easily afford a +50 health rune from the trader shortly after. There is very very very little statistical progression after that. No more levels. No more stat boosts, and only very minor rune improvements (unless you got very lucky in those first 2 days)

    And the funny thing about that game is when you are 3-4 days in to the game and things seem so difficult and challenging, you think it can't get much more difficult since your toon can't progress further. But it does. The areas continue to grow more and more challenging, and you overcome because you become a better player. 2 years later you can go back to that area that kicked your ass 4 games in to playing the game and walk through it wondering how it got so easy. You got better as a player.

    So yes, there are many many games people play for fun even if there is no long term statistical improvement.

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Rhianni32

    Originally posted by coretex666

    Originally posted by Rhianni32

    Everytime I see a thread where someone asks if there is no gear grind what is there to do I imagine Plato screaming "Just walk out of the cave already!"

     Plato also said that Demos is rather stupid. Funny how you effectively demonstrated two of his ideas in one post. No matter that one of them unintentionally

    You are really reaching with that one. The common man would be for gear grind aka WoW because that is all they have known and belive that to be the standard. You closing comment even asks if there is no progression what is the point.

    "Will simply playing the game be enough to keep you entertained?For me, it just seems a little pointless if I cant get anything out of it in terms of stats, gear, levels or anything that would make my character actually more powerful."

    The cave alagory is very applicable here.

     

     What I find a little problematic is not the relevancy of the *allegory, but the fact that you basically insult someone who is seeking answers masking it with Plato`s philosophical ideas. Why dont you either ignore it or write your own opinion about this game model which was actually asked for in the original post.

    Also your original comment was a pure misinterpretation of what I said. You intentionally reduced my question to a simple QQ over a missing gear grindfest which is allegedly the only thing I know, so that you could apply the concept with the cave which leads me to other Plato`s idea about the intelligence of the crowd which suddenly seems also kind of applicable here.

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by JesseBFox

    Originally posted by coretex666

    Originally posted by Banquetto

     




    Originally posted by coretex666

    You guys believe playing the game itself will be so entertaining that it will keep you interested?





    The fact that anyone could even ask this question is completely and utterly horrifying.

     



    What do you play games for if not because playing them entertains you??



    Do you honestly play games that aren't entertaining just to get shiny pixels and bigger numbers on your character sheet? That is beyond tragic.

     Would you play RPG with no levels, stats and drops? Imagine how Diablo would look like without these things.

    Would WoW have so many active players if the system would be like in GW 2?I am not sure

    I actually believe there are many players that are driven by the rewards in RPGs/ MMOs.

    Was Lineage II grindfest enjoyable for everyone because of the actual playing or because once in several months you hit new level?

    Yes I would play a RPG with no levels stats and drops. You know, if it was fun. There are games in other genres where this happens constantly and it is still fun if done right. Strategy games, adventure games, competetive multiplayer games. Oh and here is another that effectively has no real levels, drops or stats.... Guild Wars 1.

    A lot of people play and like Guild Wars 1, and in that game you get max level in under 2 days and about that time get max gear. You may only have a +41 health rune on at that time but if it is important to you, you could easily afford a +50 health rune from the trader shortly after. There is very very very little statistical progression after that. No more levels. No more stat boosts, and only very minor rune improvements (unless you got very lucky in those first 2 days)

    And the funny thing about that game is when you are 3-4 days in to the game and things seem so difficult and challenging, you think it can't get much more difficult since your toon can't progress further. But it does. The areas continue to grow more and more challenging, and you overcome because you become a better player. 2 years later you can go back to that area that kicked your ass 4 games in to playing the game and walk through it wondering how it got so easy. You got better as a player.

    So yes, there are many many games people play for fun even if there is no long term statistical improvement.

     This is the kind of answer I was looking for. It presents the idea how GW 2 can be entertaining even when capped. Now I have better idea, thanks.

    I would just propose that next time, you may want to skip the first comment you made and start with answer like this. OP would appreciate it.

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon

    And to everyone in this thread, I am really looking for your opinions, maybe you can say what you are looking forward to in this model which may serve as an inspiration for someone who has played games that were mainly oriented on stats, gear, exp grind.

    It was supposed to be a positive thread which is why I mentioned that I am going to buy the game and also that I do not want to attack the game in any way.

    Well if you need to blow up some steam, knock yourself out, but positive comments are preferred here. Thx

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • Rhianni32Rhianni32 Denver, COPosts: 222Member

    Originally posted by coretex666

    Originally posted by Rhianni32


    Originally posted by coretex666


    Originally posted by Rhianni32

    Everytime I see a thread where someone asks if there is no gear grind what is there to do I imagine Plato screaming "Just walk out of the cave already!"

     Plato also said that Demos is rather stupid. Funny how you effectively demonstrated two of his ideas in one post. No matter that one of them unintentionally

    You are really reaching with that one. The common man would be for gear grind aka WoW because that is all they have known and belive that to be the standard. You closing comment even asks if there is no progression what is the point.

    "Will simply playing the game be enough to keep you entertained?For me, it just seems a little pointless if I cant get anything out of it in terms of stats, gear, levels or anything that would make my character actually more powerful."

    The cave alagory is very applicable here.

     

     What I find a little problematic is not the relevancy of the *allegory, but the fact that you basically insult someone who is seeking answers masking it with Plato`s philosophical ideas. Why dont you either ignore it or write your own opinion about this game model which was actually asked for in the original post.

    Also your original comment was a pure misinterpretation of what I said. You intentionally reduced my question to a simple QQ over a missing gear grindfest which is allegedly the only thing I know, so that you could apply the concept with the cave which leads me to other Plato`s idea about the intelligence of the crowd which suddenly seems also kind of applicable here.

     

    Yes I did mask it around Plato. Others have said this game may not be for you and that wasnt enough. You seemed to be wanting something more indepth then the realization that this game wont meet your defined wants out of a game so I thought Plato might be a better angle. Could I have ignored your thread? Sure. For the most part I have in the other dozen times this coversation has come up in the past week or two. 

     

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