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ArenaNet aren't messing around with NDA breakers

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  • evictonevicton Member Posts: 398

    Originally posted by Jimmy562

    Originally posted by BadSpock


    Originally posted by Rhoklaw


    Originally posted by Eliandal


    Originally posted by Teala

    The reason these games have NDA's is because they don't want people to know how crappy their game truly is.  

      What a ridiculous statement.

      Good on Anet though.  A contract is a contract - something precious few people seem to realize these days.

    How is this statement stupid? I've always thought NDA's were nothing more than a shield for gaming companies to hide behind because they don't believe in their product. Do you seriously think if a gaming company was so sure of it's games success it would bother with an NDA? As for the contract is a contract, apparently you live in a different part of the world then me. America and it's citizens have proven anything but trustworthy when it comes to honoring any type of contract.

    The reason for a NDA is so that people like us can't run to every forum and blog on the internet and make posts saying "OH MY GOD X IS SO OVERPOWERED AND Y IS SO BROKEN THIS GAME SUCKS"

    And why?

    Because it isn't a "finished" product in Beta.

    You Beta to help "finish" the product.

    Common sense + logic = win

    But you can go and do that when the beta weekends hit.

    Only if your accepted, otherwise you have to pre-purchase, not pre-order mind you, pre-purchase at this point you've already paid for the game.

    Not that I blame them much for that either, the people putting 5 bucks down on a game, then canceling their pre-order are the reason for this. Beta is not a trail period.

  • CromicaCromica Member UncommonPosts: 657

    Originally posted by Bunks

    Originally posted by Lobotomist


    Originally posted by RefMinor

    That is not a good thing, shows fear, look at ArcheAge, it has no NDA! users can post videos of their own personal gameplay online, having an NDA shows a lack of confidence in your product.

    Reason = Item shop

    They will be experimenting with it in this beta and some leaks allready caused lot of backclash.

    and well deserved. Testing to see if you can get away with unethical behavior = fail IMO

     

    Really the item shop is unethical? how so? or are you just a troll.

  • garretthgarretth Member UncommonPosts: 343

    Boys and girls...you gotta pay to play.  It's simple economics.  

    There is nothing wrong with it...you control when, where and how you pay.   What can be better?

  • adam_noxadam_nox Member UncommonPosts: 2,148

    Originally posted by Cromica

    Originally posted by Bunks


    Originally posted by Lobotomist


    Originally posted by RefMinor

    That is not a good thing, shows fear, look at ArcheAge, it has no NDA! users can post videos of their own personal gameplay online, having an NDA shows a lack of confidence in your product.

    Reason = Item shop

    They will be experimenting with it in this beta and some leaks allready caused lot of backclash.

    and well deserved. Testing to see if you can get away with unethical behavior = fail IMO

     

    Really the item shop is unethical? how so? or are you just a troll.

    I find any system where you are told you only have to buy the box to experience the game, and then they have a cash shop with stuff that's either hard or very hard to get otherwise.  Even if vanity, I think it's BS.

     

    Also, I know they've said you'll be able to get stuff without paying real money, through gold.  But if only through gold to gem conversion, then eventually inflation will make that all but impossible if you are someone who likes to collect customization options for your character.  It comes down to how optional it really is to spend money on stuff you want rather than grind for it.  And as time goes on it will become less and less of an option to grind. 

     

    I think the system will be a disaster unless in return they really come out with a lot of stuff for free in between expansions.  If everything that comes out is difficult to get without gems or buying an expac, then I think that's pretty unethical.  It's much more fair to just charge a sub fee and give everyone access to customization through fun quests and trials and things that aren't particularly time consuming. 

  • BunksBunks Member Posts: 960

    Originally posted by Cromica

    Originally posted by Bunks


    Originally posted by Lobotomist


    Originally posted by RefMinor

    That is not a good thing, shows fear, look at ArcheAge, it has no NDA! users can post videos of their own personal gameplay online, having an NDA shows a lack of confidence in your product.

    Reason = Item shop

    They will be experimenting with it in this beta and some leaks allready caused lot of backclash.

    and well deserved. Testing to see if you can get away with unethical behavior = fail IMO

     

    Really the item shop is unethical? how so? or are you just a troll.

    Lootbags? or do you think running a gambling operation inside a game an act of ethics. Maybe I should dangle crack on the street corner, it's only business right?

  • evictonevicton Member Posts: 398

    Originally posted by Bunks

    Originally posted by Cromica


    Originally posted by Bunks


    Originally posted by Lobotomist


    Originally posted by RefMinor

    That is not a good thing, shows fear, look at ArcheAge, it has no NDA! users can post videos of their own personal gameplay online, having an NDA shows a lack of confidence in your product.

    Reason = Item shop

    They will be experimenting with it in this beta and some leaks allready caused lot of backclash.

    and well deserved. Testing to see if you can get away with unethical behavior = fail IMO

     

    Really the item shop is unethical? how so? or are you just a troll.

    Lootbags? or do you think running a gambling operation inside a game an act of ethics. Maybe I should dangle crack on the street corner, it's only business right?

    Thats awesome someone who spent a large amount of their time defending arenanet and gw2 just got called a troll. By another person, pretty much defending arenanet.

     

  • garretthgarretth Member UncommonPosts: 343

    Originally posted by Bunks

    Originally posted by Cromica


    Originally posted by Bunks


    Originally posted by Lobotomist


    Originally posted by RefMinor

    That is not a good thing, shows fear, look at ArcheAge, it has no NDA! users can post videos of their own personal gameplay online, having an NDA shows a lack of confidence in your product.

    Reason = Item shop

    They will be experimenting with it in this beta and some leaks allready caused lot of backclash.

    and well deserved. Testing to see if you can get away with unethical behavior = fail IMO

     

    Really the item shop is unethical? how so? or are you just a troll.

    Lootbags? or do you think running a gambling operation inside a game an act of ethics. Maybe I should dangle crack on the street corner, it's only business right?

    Bunks, EQ2 has had a slot machine type of minigame running for years!   If you really want to experience a cash shop, then play EQ2 FREE.

    You do have the option of buying a subscription...and no one is twisting your arm to buy from the cash shop.

    You have choice.  Maybe folks are threatened by choice in that they feel they will have no will power...or maybe they are leery of playing with other folks that have no will power.

    It really doesn't affect your gameplay at all unless you are extremely envious of other folks bright, shiney stuff.

    PVP in GW2,  I understand, is sacred ground and should not be impacted by the CS.

     

  • BunksBunks Member Posts: 960

    Originally posted by garretth

    Bunks, EQ2 has had a slot machine type of minigame running for years!   If you really want to experience a cash shop, then play EQ2 FREE.

    You do have the option of buying a subscription...and no one is twisting your arm to buy from the cash shop.

    You have choice.  Maybe folks are threatened by choice in that they feel they will have no will power...or maybe they are leery of playing with other folks that have no will power.

    It really doesn't affect your gameplay at all unless you are extremely envious of other folks bright, shiney stuff.

    PVP in GW2,  I understand, is sacred ground and should not be impacted by the CS.

     

    I am going to pay for this game, so there are two differing points here. First, exploiting human nature(addiction, gambling) is what only a someone without ethics would do. Hence why I am upset about Anet attempting this. Up till now, they were the shining example of good corporate behavior.

    2nd- I am paying for the game, will probably buy every convience item it has, money is no object to me. But the principle here is if I am playing a game with a cash shop, I am fine with it as long as I never am forced to even know it exists while playing. When I chance upon a chest that says, hey, you need to open your wallet to open this, kills my immersion and puts the cash shop in my face.

    Anet lost my respect with this behavior. I am pretty sure it NCsoft pushing this since they see the potential to rack up huge profits from this game. I stopped playing STO because of the lokboxes in your face every day, and even though I enjoyed playing it, I refused to support a company like Cryptic for their behaviors. So If can walk away from a f2p game on principle, it wont be hard to walk away from a game I have to buy first who is attempting similiar behavior.

    FYI- I do not beleive the cash shop is p2w, actually I know it isn't. But this behavior at the start, tells me not to trust Anet anymore .

  • evictonevicton Member Posts: 398

    Originally posted by garretth

    Originally posted by Bunks


    Originally posted by Cromica


    Originally posted by Bunks


    Originally posted by Lobotomist


    Originally posted by RefMinor

    That is not a good thing, shows fear, look at ArcheAge, it has no NDA! users can post videos of their own personal gameplay online, having an NDA shows a lack of confidence in your product.

    Reason = Item shop

    They will be experimenting with it in this beta and some leaks allready caused lot of backclash.

    and well deserved. Testing to see if you can get away with unethical behavior = fail IMO

     

    Really the item shop is unethical? how so? or are you just a troll.

    Lootbags? or do you think running a gambling operation inside a game an act of ethics. Maybe I should dangle crack on the street corner, it's only business right?

    Bunks, EQ2 has had a slot machine type of minigame running for years!   If you really want to experience a cash shop, then play EQ2 FREE.

    You do have the option of buying a subscription...and no one is twisting your arm to buy from the cash shop.

    You have choice.  Maybe folks are threatened by choice in that they feel they will have no will power...or maybe they are leery of playing with other folks that have no will power.

    It really doesn't affect your gameplay at all unless you are extremely envious of other folks bright, shiney stuff.

    PVP in GW2,  I understand, is sacred ground and should not be impacted by the CS.

     

    Up until recently we were told the cash shop wouldn't have anything that affected gameplay, then they changed their faq, and since then how far they will go with their cash shop has gotten more and more gameplay affected.

    Sure you can look at this stuff and say oh it ain't that bad it won't affect balance, but the truth is these things tend to start off mild and get worse, cash shops that is. If this is farthest they go I can see myself to buying the game. But that doesn't make me happy about it.

    This cash shop doesn't even look like it was designed by Arenanet truth be told...It looks like a cash shop out of a korean f2p mmo...

    I mean does the Galor Class ship drop out of the Mystic Lock Box or the loot bag..

  • CursedseiCursedsei Member Posts: 1,012

    Originally posted by Lobotomist

    Originally posted by RefMinor

    That is not a good thing, shows fear, look at ArcheAge, it has no NDA! users can post videos of their own personal gameplay online, having an NDA shows a lack of confidence in your product.

    Reason = Item shop

    They will be experimenting with it in this beta and some leaks allready caused lot of backclash.

    Except, of course, there is another press beta going on currently right now, and their build includes the Cash Shop, which of course means we'll be finding out about the items currently in the cash shop anyways. So there is less than a week difference between the "leaked" item shop and what will be viewed and talked about by the press.

     

    So no, its not "reason = item shop". Its because there's always those morons who jump into a closed alpha/beta and see it as nothing but a chance to see if they want to play the game at all, and make their judgement based on how the game is at the time. And usually, that ends with said people starting to hoop and holler and whine about how the game is in terrible shape and there's bugs and not all the content is there and no one should buy it cause "deze devs sux AMRITE?!".

  • RoinRoin Member RarePosts: 3,444

    Originally posted by expresso

    Why is there an NDA?  I dont get it? Theres no NDA for Mists of Pandaria, I am looking forward to GW2 but what could they be hiding?

    I've never hated NDA's more then I do right now. I could technically say something, not like being banned from Anet games would be a big loss for me.  They are B2P after all. *bites lip*

    In War - Victory.
    In Peace - Vigilance.
    In Death - Sacrifice.

  • garretthgarretth Member UncommonPosts: 343

    Originally posted by evicton

    Originally posted by garretth


    Originally posted by Bunks


    Originally posted by Cromica


    Originally posted by Bunks


    Originally posted by Lobotomist


    Originally posted by RefMinor

    That is not a good thing, shows fear, look at ArcheAge, it has no NDA! users can post videos of their own personal gameplay online, having an NDA shows a lack of confidence in your product.

    Reason = Item shop

    They will be experimenting with it in this beta and some leaks allready caused lot of backclash.

    and well deserved. Testing to see if you can get away with unethical behavior = fail IMO

     

    Really the item shop is unethical? how so? or are you just a troll.

    Lootbags? or do you think running a gambling operation inside a game an act of ethics. Maybe I should dangle crack on the street corner, it's only business right?

    Bunks, EQ2 has had a slot machine type of minigame running for years!   If you really want to experience a cash shop, then play EQ2 FREE.

    You do have the option of buying a subscription...and no one is twisting your arm to buy from the cash shop.

    You have choice.  Maybe folks are threatened by choice in that they feel they will have no will power...or maybe they are leery of playing with other folks that have no will power.

    It really doesn't affect your gameplay at all unless you are extremely envious of other folks bright, shiney stuff.

    PVP in GW2,  I understand, is sacred ground and should not be impacted by the CS.

     

    Up until recently we were told the cash shop wouldn't have anything that affected gameplay, then they changed their faq, and since then how far they will go with their cash shop has gotten more and more gameplay affected.

    Sure you can look at this stuff and say oh it ain't that bad it won't affect balance, but the truth is these things tend to start off mild and get worse, cash shops that is. If this is farthest they go I can see myself to buying the game. But that doesn't make me happy about it.

    This cash shop doesn't even look like it was designed by Arenanet truth be told...It looks like a cash shop out of a korean f2p mmo...

    I mean does the Galor Class ship drop out of the Mystic Lock Box or the loot bag..



    I hear ya Evicton,

    I'm looking at it this way....I'll buy the game and play for my own entertainment.   I'll explore a new world, meet new folks, follow my story line, create cool looking characters, solve some puzzles, pvp - take down a keep or defend one, and kinda ignore the CS.   I'm one of those players that even make my alts pay their own way...each alt has to earn her own stuff, but that is my playstyle and some one else would think that is silly...(hubby thinks so).

    I don't worry about balance too much...but see it as a challenge.   When a class is too powerful, I usually don't play it since its easy-mode to me.   Crazy, I know.

    I leave the worrying for 'real life'...once I'm in a game, I just go for the gusto (fun).  

    Cheers!

  • dinamsdinams Member Posts: 1,362

    A source from inside the beta said that the loot bag was not present

    "It has potential"
    -Second most used phrase on existence
    "It sucks"
    -Most used phrase on existence

  • UnholyVashXUnholyVashX Member Posts: 49

    Originally posted by expresso

    Why is there an NDA?  I dont get it? Theres no NDA for Mists of Pandaria, I am looking forward to GW2 but what could they be hiding?

    There was an NDA. It was BARELY just lifted.

    Bro you are playing LOTRO like it owes you money - Grunt187
    Anticipation : TERA

  • GuelyGuely Member Posts: 114

    Originally posted by dinams

    A source from inside the beta said that the loot bag was not present

    Good, now they just need to take away the rest of the gambling items.

  • CromicaCromica Member UncommonPosts: 657

    Originally posted by adam_nox

    I find any system where you are told you only have to buy the box to experience the game, and then they have a cash shop with stuff that's either hard or very hard to get otherwise.  Even if vanity, I think it's BS.

     

    Welcome to B2P/F2P mmos, if you didn't know it would be like this I think you need more common sense.

     


    Originally posted by Bunks

    Lootbags? or do you think running a gambling operation inside a game an act of ethics. Maybe I should dangle crack on the street corner, it's only business right?

    Its their game they make the rules, and if you want to sell crack I really don't care I am smart enough not to buy it.

     


    Originally posted by evicton

    Up until recently we were told the cash shop wouldn't have anything that affected gameplay, then they changed their faq, and since then how far they will go with their cash shop has gotten more and more gameplay affected.

    Sure you can look at this stuff and say oh it ain't that bad it won't affect balance, but the truth is these things tend to start off mild and get worse, cash shops that is. If this is farthest they go I can see myself to buying the game. But that doesn't make me happy about it.

    This cash shop doesn't even look like it was designed by Arenanet truth be told...It looks like a cash shop out of a korean f2p mmo...

    I mean does the Galor Class ship drop out of the Mystic Lock Box or the loot bag..

    If it ends up bothing you that bad then just don't play its pretty simple.

     

    There is absolutly nothing in the item shop that is absolutly required to enjoy every aspec of the game.

     

  • CorehavenCorehaven Member UncommonPosts: 1,533

    Originally posted by RizelStar

    Originally posted by Rhoklaw


    Originally posted by Eliandal


    Originally posted by Teala

    The reason these games have NDA's is because they don't want people to know how crappy their game truly is.  

     

      What a ridiculous statement.

     

      Good on Anet though.  A contract is a contract - something precious few people seem to realize these days.

    How is this statement stupid? I've always thought NDA's were nothing more than a shield for gaming companies to hide behind because they don't believe in their product. Do you seriously think if a gaming company was so sure of it's games success it would bother with an NDA? As for the contract is a contract, apparently you live in a different part of the world then me. America and it's citizens have proven anything but trustworthy when it comes to honoring any type of contract.

    Not known.

    Didn't say statement was stupid  just ridiculous because it isn't true, less we could get some facts.

     

     

    For all you saying the NDA is so the company is trying to hide something, allow me to enlighten you. 

     

    You are....CORRECT!  You see, the game is in beta.  The purpose of beta is to allow testers in, so they can find bugs, break things, to test server stability, etc etc.   They not only expect there to be problems, they WANT there to be problems, so they know what to fix.  This is the purpose of Beta. 

     

    Now then, the purpose of an NDA is so that testers dont go screaming all over the net about every single bug they find.  Why?  Because its not representative of the end result.  Its not the finished game. 

     

    In comparison its why a lot of writers dont prefer anyone to read the "first draft".  Its not the real book.  They aren't finished with it yet. 

     

    This is why an NDA is in place.  They not only expect problems, they know full well there will be, and they'll be jumping all over it to fix them.  There are likely hundreds of things that are going to pop up on Beta that will not be in the final game.  So of course they dont want people talking about them. 

     

    Anyone with a brain that's higher functioning than a burnt meatball could figure this out easily.   Derp derp. 

  • evictonevicton Member Posts: 398

    Originally posted by dinams

    A source from inside the beta said that the loot bag was not present

    This kinda thing that makes me leery, the leaked photos actually didn't come from this weekends beta, and thus were not under the current NDA which is why there being allowed to stay up on guru. Considering Rubi has posted in a leaked thread about not making the facebook qoute on guru. I have to say its a legit item. 

    If they remove it from the press beta without making a statement saying its not going to be in the game. 

    There just leaving you to make the assumption they took it out. And when they added it back in they can say something along the lines they wanted paying customers to be the first to get to see whats inside them.

    Now if they say they took it out and keep it out all the better. Now they need to look at their lockboxes and keys and the trollaphone.

    I don't particularly like the repair kits either, but thats less about what the item does and more about how they said for a while death was enough punishment. Then they added in this death penalty which I label as an inconvenience, then the fix for the inconvenience is put in the cash shop. That says to me they added in an inconvenience simply so they could sell an item in the cash shop.

    While I don't agree with the idea of them adding inconveniences simply so they can sell convenience items the repair kit is still a lesser of evils in my eyes.

  • dinamsdinams Member Posts: 1,362

    Originally posted by evicton

    Originally posted by dinams

    A source from inside the beta said that the loot bag was not present

    This kinda thing that makes me leery, the leaked photos actually didn't come from this weekends beta, and thus were not under the current NDA which is why there being allowed to stay up on guru. Considering Rubi has posted in a leaked thread about not making the facebook qoute on guru. I have to say its a legit item. 

    If they remove it from the press beta without making a statement saying its not going to be in the game. 

    There just leaving you to make the assumption they took it out. And when they added it back in they can say something along the lines they wanted paying customers to be the first to get to see whats inside them.

    Now if they say they took it out and keep it out all the better. Now they need to look at their lockboxes and keys and the trollaphone.

    I don't particularly like the repair kits either, but thats less about what the item does and more about how they said for a while death was enough punishment. Then they added in this death penalty which I label as an inconvenience, then the fix for the inconvenience is put in the cash shop. That says to me they added in an inconvenience simply so they could sell an item in the cash shop.

    While I don't agree with the idea of them adding inconveniences simply so they can sell convenience items the repair kit is still a lesser of evils in my eyes.

    Its really not me playing so I can't confirm if its entirely true, maybe the guy just do not saw it or something like it

    But if they remove it, I doubt they would put it back later

    "It has potential"
    -Second most used phrase on existence
    "It sucks"
    -Most used phrase on existence

  • MyrdynnMyrdynn Member RarePosts: 2,479

    there is no possible way to leak photos from this event.  the game itself is covered with your email address, so if you print screen or anything they will know.

    I am not in beta

     

  • Fir3lineFir3line Member Posts: 767

    Originally posted by Myrdynn

    there is no possible way to leak photos from this event.  the game itself is covered with your email address, so if you print screen or anything they will know.

    I am not in beta

     

    its just a little shade, can still do it with a black filtering, not that you would.

     

     

    I can say that its 4am here, going to bed now extremely satisfied, and i want to be put in a coma until release date.

    Tomorrow I shall end the seamless vs non seamless world debate once and for all, with my good arguments

     

     

     

    ;)

     

     

    "I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."

  • evictonevicton Member Posts: 398

    Originally posted by Fir3line

    Originally posted by Myrdynn

    there is no possible way to leak photos from this event.  the game itself is covered with your email address, so if you print screen or anything they will know.

    I am not in beta

     

    its just a little shade, can still do it with a black filtering, not that you would.

     

     

    I can say that its 4am here, going to bed now extremely satisfied, and i want to be put in a coma until release date.

    Tomorrow I shall end the seamless vs non seamless world debate once and for all, with my good arguments

     

     

     

    ;)

     

     

    You could do that, but these leaks happened before this beta started so they certainly did not come from this beta weekend :)

  • GeeTeeEffOhGeeTeeEffOh Member Posts: 731

    Do we all really believe that companies still use Betas to help iron out the last remaining issues?

    How many times have we heard over and over and over ad nauseam. "That was brought brought up during Beta and they just ignored it."?

    Betas are free marketing, publicity and Hype. more than anything else.

  • CorehavenCorehaven Member UncommonPosts: 1,533

    Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

    Do we all really believe that companies still use Betas to help iron out the last remaining issues?

     

    Being that Ive been in a couple, and submitted gobs of bug reports, which most didnt seem to end up in the final game.....yea.  Yea I do. 

  • GeeTeeEffOhGeeTeeEffOh Member Posts: 731


    Originally posted by Corehaven


    Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
    Do we all really believe that companies still use Betas to help iron out the last remaining issues?

     
    Being that Ive been in a couple, and submitted gobs of bug reports, which most didnt seem to end up in the final game.....yea.  Yea I do. 

    Well, then I'll alter my statement.

    I believe they are more about free marketing, publicity and Hype than anything else,
    It's great that you were able to have a positive impact on games, but I've ssen too many instances where beta bug reports went ignored. OK, Where people claimed in the forums later on..."That was brought up in the beta"

    I'll clarify that because it was on the Internet.

    Edit 1:
    Actually, after I think about it some more, I am leaning back towards my original statement.
    We are talking about a beta access that was sold as part of the CE?.
    How serious can it be as a beta if anyone who waved a few extra bucks gets to beta this game?

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