Remember to discuss matters with each other in a civil manner, even when disagreeing. I have just cleaned up the thread some, but if this continues, it may have to be locked.
Remember to discuss matters with each other in a civil manner, even when disagreeing. I have just cleaned up the thread some, but if this continues, it may have to be locked.
I just love how GW2 fans assume that in every other MMO except for GW2 either players are not having fun or too busy runing gear treadmill. By Blizzards own admission a minority of their subscribers actually took interest in end game raiding.;so i ask what all those millions have been doing in WOW and other themepark games for all these years? i will be the odd one and say hey they were having FUN.
I have played every themepark MMO that exists and never chased gear or did end game raiding neither i ever felt forced or pushed into that direction. Only because there is an option to grind gears doesn't mean i had to do it. People say hey play GW2 for fun, stop playing when you get bored, wait for new content /expansion and dive back in..Well that is how i have been playing MMOS all along.
GW2 will definately have a gear carrot. But then for specific looks. Just like in GW1. Don't underestimate how many players see that as serious goal in their game.
There are 1500 dynamic events that you can do and with the scaling system you won't be overpowered for evan the starter zone ones so if you had fun doing dynamic events you could go and see if you can find complete all of those. Downside the endgame versions scale up to 100 people so things will probably get hectic and not everyone will know what they are supposed to be doing and it's openworld so doing it with just your guildmates probably isn't very likely so if your a raider it probably won't fill in for raids.
There are the dungeons which have 1 starting layout and then 3 more optional harder paths to take so if you had fun doing those you could again try and find and complete all of them. Downside this is supposed to be small group content and I'm not sure again that this is what a committed raider is all that interested in as (this is just my opinion) about 90% of the challenge to raiding is organising 9 to 39 other players to be on the same page.
There are daily weekly monthly yearly kill collection quests so that should keep the complestionists busy for quite a bit though again not really a raider type thing.
Then there is the small scale instanced PvP for those who enjoy competive PvP on the small scale so if that floats your boat then you can do that. There is evan a tournament system so I guess if it becomes a success you may be able to become a profesional GW2 player/broardcaster. Downside if your not into PvP then well this won't be of any interest to you.
Lastly 3 sided conquerable world PvP that gives bonuses to your server if you win the round so if you enjoy open world PvP there is that. There is PvE on these maps so if you like your PvE mixed with a bit of watching over your shoulder for enemy players then there is that. Downside it resets so not really a lasting world changing thing and while the people you compete against changes the map doesn't so while the closest thing to the RvR from Daoc in a long time it's not quite the same plus if you don't like PvP at all well again your probably not going to evan want to try.
There we go plenty of options for the endgame charcter. If none of that sounds like fun to you then I guess this game just doesn't contain a carrot at all at least not as an MMO.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
There is nothing more dangerous than a true believer.
If you don't like the idea of not being able to farm for item/gear progression, you should probably play another MMORPG instead of trying to change this one to match what you want.
Actually, you can probably say the same thing about every MMORPG:
If you don't like it, you probably should play another MMORPG instead of trying to change this one to match what you want.
@BadSpock: Exactly. However whenever I bring that up as a counter-arguement, I'm always met by people who say that such a statement is simply a cop-out and that said game must find a way to meet the expectations of everyone. Or something along those lines.
If you don't like the idea of not being able to farm for item/gear progression, you should probably play another MMORPG instead of trying to change this one to match what you want.
Actually, you can probably say the same thing about every MMORPG:
If you don't like it, you probably should play another MMORPG instead of trying to change this one to match what you want.
More sound logic has never been spoken on these boards.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
If you don't like it, you probably should play another MMORPG instead of trying to change this one to match what you want.
There in lies the problem. Selection pool is a bit shallow.
I recently looked at a few games. One MMO in particular looked like it could be OK, not the greatest game going but it could work for me....even if just short term.
I didn't mind the trial, it was actually interesting. Problem is, it's an Indie. And therefore has issues.
I am all for supporting Indies and I am even willing to live with less pollish and some bugs. But if I cannot stay connected to the server because there are too many hops between me and the game.... it's game over.
That's just one example in a book of short MMO horror stories.
There will be non-tradeable items, gear, and maybe crafting mats that you can only get by adventuring, doing dungeons, etc. They will not be more statistically powerful, but they will provide unique looks to show off that you completed various content.
There will also be various achievements to earn, titles to earn, and skills and traits to earn through various means. There will be collections to work on...like all the armor dies or mini pets available in game. There will be minigames in cities to compete in with other players for rewards.
Then of course there's just playing all the content... at max level you can still go back to the entire world and explore and do dynamic events, because you're character will scale in power so that nothing is trivial. This is also true of dungeons...they have multiple different paths so that you can do them over and over without repeating the same thing, and all of them will be available to you at max level.
If you don't like the idea of not being able to farm for item/gear progression, you should probably play another MMORPG instead of trying to change this one to match what you want.
Actually, you can probably say the same thing about every MMORPG:
If you don't like it, you probably should play another MMORPG instead of trying to change this one to match what you want.
More sound logic has never been spoken on these boards.
I dunno, the OP (remember him?) was really asking what the carrot was in this game if some of the more traditional ones such as gear wasn't one of them. (but of course it is, even if only for appearance sake)
What seems to end in GW2 (as was true in GW1) was the actual progression of character power. Most other MMORPGs don't do this, they provide ever increasing levels, skills, abilities, gear, that ultimately lead to increased character power, in either pve or pvp.
Since GW2 totally removes this essential and key definining factor (IMO) found in almost every other MMORPG ever created previously, once again I ask, is GW2 really a proper MMORPG as tradtitionally defined or something all together new and different much like it's predecessor was.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's naive to think people will continue to play this game just because "it's fun." LotRO, WAR, Rift, and SW:TOR were all "fun," but eventually players consumed the content and ran out of things to do. Those players didn't stick around running the same content over and over again. What was fun for awhile soon became boring. I'm not sure GW2's dynamic events will be enough to make every experience completely unique.
Well then people will play it while it's fun and then stop when it's no longer fun.
er "welcome to life".
What is naive is thinking that everything lasts forever if nothing new is introduced.
Since Guild Wars 2 will introduce new content just like any mmo then It shouldn't necessarily be a problem.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I confess I wasn't a huge fan of the original Guild Wars, simply because I prefer more open, less instanced worlds. So GW2 seemed to be introducing a lot of elements that made it very interesting to me.
I do worry about the 'carrot' myself, simply because of my playstyle. I play dedicated healers in MMOs, because they're classes I can see having an impact on the direction of play. Call it more visual feedback of my efforts, but I'm wondering what I could do in GW2 to get that (maybe I couldn't). Perhaps I should roll a Guardian?
Another thing I'm curious about is the lack of a 'hard' trinity. I was a raider in WoW, and Blizzard's encounter scripting is second to none. The problem is that if you remove those elements from the game which enable encounters like that to exist, how do you down world bosses with skill-based play? How do you keep them difficult, besides having a lot of health and dealing a ton of damage? Will you have world bosses that require the skilled and co-ordinated play of groups of players, to the same degree players needed skill to down bosses in WoW? That's going to be really tough to implement without a trinity system. And I know GW2 won't have raids, but we'll see. One of my best moments in WoW was downing LK25 man with my guild, as one of the last healers up, right before a total wipe. I can still watch Paragon's heroic kill as a piece of truly great entertainment, with real nostalgia. How will you have moments like that without a trinity? I know GW2 isn't WoW, but skill is very important, and they have their work cut out making this system truly skilled in PvE.
I'm not too worried about the grinding bit. I expect to grind in GW2 to support crafting, at least. I like farming for crafting mats to max my professions. I also like armours, though, and not because they're pretty - I like to earn them. I can't see myself buying armour at all because it looks good, but each to their own.
Some of us don't raid for gear progression, though gear helps, at least in other games. We raid for content progression, the same way others run dungeons for progression - to have something new, fun, and challenging to do. It is the sense of achievement that counts, which comes from skill and effort, in the end. Will GW2 be able to give a player that same sense of achievement? I'm willing to try it to see if it will.
Since GW2 totally removes this essential and key definining factor (IMO) found in almost every other MMORPG ever created previously, once again I ask, is GW2 really a proper MMORPG as tradtitionally defined or something all together new and different much like it's predecessor was.
Check out my above post.
I would say that it is somewhat different, but not as different as people might think. Power in this game is more defined by versatility...and depth. So your character will progress by gaining a wider pool of choices on what skills / traits / armor / weapons to use. These will provide the typical character advancement that you find in most RPGs, just kind of in a different direction (horizontal instead of vertical).
Maybe. That's my understanding anyway... I'm hoping the RMT stuff doesn't ruin even that bit of advancement and make it not worthwhile to play. I'm going to wait and see what's available in the cash shop and how things play out a bit before spending any money with ArenaNet.
Im trying to figure out what i am farming in this game, if levels are designed to take 90 minutes each, which will probably mean about 30mnutes for me, and gear is supposed to be all uniform across levels just unique looks what am i farming for power?
Are skills still unlocked through quests and stuff? it seems as though all the weapon skills are given to you as you use the weapon as such i am not quite sure what the guild wars 2 end game is, is it just pvp?
You gain the chance to be totally 733t...^^ No doubt there will be the usual hysterics about dps meters and other such, for those who just HAVE to min/max ANYTHING they do. Couple that in with mad skillz, and you pretty much have what it appears they are going for. Lets hope there is sufficient entertainment value involved for us mere mortals.
If you don't like the idea of not being able to farm for item/gear progression, you should probably play another MMORPG instead of trying to change this one to match what you want.
Actually, you can probably say the same thing about every MMORPG:
If you don't like it, you probably should play another MMORPG instead of trying to change this one to match what you want.
More sound logic has never been spoken on these boards.
I dunno, the OP (remember him?) was really asking what the carrot was in this game if some of the more traditional ones such as gear wasn't one of them. (but of course it is, even if only for appearance sake)
What seems to end in GW2 (as was true in GW1) was the actual progression of character power. Most other MMORPGs don't do this, they provide ever increasing levels, skills, abilities, gear, that ultimately lead to increased character power, in either pve or pvp.
Since GW2 totally removes this essential and key definining factor (IMO) found in almost every other MMORPG ever created previously, once again I ask, is GW2 really a proper MMORPG as tradtitionally defined or something all together new and different much like it's predecessor was.
I think your question is valid. I can't answer it though.
But from what i can see, I think that in the end what GW2 will end up as a solid successful well developed niche game once the new car smell wears off and the masses discover that it really wasn't what they expected.
Im trying to figure out what i am farming in this game, if levels are designed to take 90 minutes each, which will probably mean about 30mnutes for me, and gear is supposed to be all uniform across levels just unique looks what am i farming for power?
Are skills still unlocked through quests and stuff? it seems as though all the weapon skills are given to you as you use the weapon as such i am not quite sure what the guild wars 2 end game is, is it just pvp?
Omfg.. the new generation. MMORPGS were never meant to be a game with a carrot on a stick. And really, i hate all those collectors. Collecting items, collecting levels.. since EQ and even more since WoW it is all about collecting useless stuff and run behind the carrot on the stick. Once upon a time, there were Socializer, Achiever, Killer and Explorer and nowadays we just have only Collectors, a perverted version of Achiever.. i guess i am really done with the genre.
If you don't like the idea of not being able to farm for item/gear progression, you should probably play another MMORPG instead of trying to change this one to match what you want.
Actually, you can probably say the same thing about every MMORPG:
If you don't like it, you probably should play another MMORPG instead of trying to change this one to match what you want.
More sound logic has never been spoken on these boards.
I dunno, the OP (remember him?) was really asking what the carrot was in this game if some of the more traditional ones such as gear wasn't one of them. (but of course it is, even if only for appearance sake)
Yeah, looked to me like a question, the opening of a discussion. Sorta the whole point of having forums. I'm not sure who's trying to change GW2.
It will be interesting to see how this all looks, once we've played it, and see how it all really works.. and how well it all really works. When we can discuss it without it all being so speculative. Would be pretty foolish to write the game off entirely, just because of some doubts about how it will fit into the genre. Why try to push people away and quell discussion like that?
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I am both amused and sadened at how quickly people can become enraged over speculation and mis quoted text. Based on everything that I have read and watched, guild Wars 2 is simply rebuilding some of the ways we play MMO's. Take end game for example, gone are the raids and gear grind that we are so familiar with. This is not to say that there will be nothing to do at the end of the game but rather that the concept of end game is being redefined for their MMO. We are so programmed to expect certain things out of an MMO that when those things have been removed of redefined we cannot process it and assume that the world is coming to an end.
As for GW2, there is definitely a move away from the traditional 'Carrot on the Stick" approach to gameplay (specifically end game) but to assume that there will be nothing in its place is a little short sighted. I am not saying this a fanboy but rather based on A-Net's track record. They have a history of building things that the players want whether or not the players realize they want them. Even with the development of htis title we have seen time and time again where they have redefined a typical MMO concept that then received a lot of shock/critisim only to discover that this new thing wasn't so bad.
In the case of the "carrot", I think A-Net has enough foresight to be thinking about what is going to keep people interested in their title. Will it be different from what we are used to? Most definitely. But I would venture to guess that the 'carrots' they have in place will appeal to a large range of people. Things like PVP (both structured and world), personal story, and dungeons are just a few of things that have been designed around that concept of keeping people interested. So I think it might be a good idea to lighten up and actually wait for the game to prove itself out (which, based on all of the information we have received from those playing Beta, i would say they have already taken a giant leap in that direction). Will GW2 be for everyone? I hope not because there would be a serious lack of diversity in the world if that were the case. However I would also encourage you to not allow the fear of change to deter you from seeing it through. You might actually be pleasently surprised.
Im trying to figure out what i am farming in this game, if levels are designed to take 90 minutes each, which will probably mean about 30mnutes for me, and gear is supposed to be all uniform across levels just unique looks what am i farming for power?
Are skills still unlocked through quests and stuff? it seems as though all the weapon skills are given to you as you use the weapon as such i am not quite sure what the guild wars 2 end game is, is it just pvp?
Omfg.. the new generation. MMORPGS were never meant to be a game with a carrot on a stick. And really, i hate all those collectors. Collecting items, collecting levels.. since EQ and even more since WoW it is all about collecting useless stuff and run behind the carrot on the stick. Once upon a time, there were Socializer, Achiever, Killer and Explorer and nowadays we just have only Collectors, a perverted version of Achiever.. i guess i am really done with the genre.
GW2 is also full of those what you deem useless collection and achievemnt stuff. That is the carrot in GW2. Every MMO needs some kind of progression. Even GW2 has it only in different look and package. Titles, ranks, collectible items, gear, weapon skins..what do you think hall of monument is in GW1? and you can bring all that stuff into GW2 from GW1.
I am both amused and sadened at how quickly people can become enraged over speculation and mis quoted text. Based on everything that I have read and watched, guild Wars 2 is simply rebuilding some of the ways we play MMO's. Take end game for example, gone are the raids and gear grind that we are so familiar with. This is not to say that there will be nothing to do at the end of the game but rather that the concept of end game is being redefined for their MMO. We are so programmed to expect certain things out of an MMO that when those things have been removed of redefined we cannot process it and assume that the world is coming to an end.
As for GW2, there is definitely a move away from the traditional 'Carrot on the Stick" approach to gameplay (specifically end game) but to assume that there will be nothing in its place is a little short sighted. I am not saying this a fanboy but rather based on A-Net's track record. They have a history of building things that the players want whether or not the players realize they want them. Even with the development of htis title we have seen time and time again where they have redefined a typical MMO concept that then received a lot of shock/critisim only to discover that this new thing wasn't so bad.
In the case of the "carrot", I think A-Net has enough foresight to be thinking about what is going to keep people interested in their title. Will it be different from what we are used to? Most definitely. But I would venture to guess that the 'carrots' they have in place will appeal to a large range of people. Things like PVP (both structured and world), personal story, and dungeons are just a few of things that have been designed around that concept of keeping people interested. So I think it might be a good idea to lighten up and actually wait for the game to prove itself out (which, based on all of the information we have received from those playing Beta, i would say they have already taken a giant leap in that direction). Will GW2 be for everyone? I hope not because there would be a serious lack of diversity in the world if that were the case. However I would also encourage you to not allow the fear of change to deter you from seeing it through. You might actually be pleasently surprised.
Where GW2 could potentially lose players in that people want to see something for their work.
To some, a title is what tey want. To others, its big shoulders
to others, it's having their character become just a little bit more powerful then they were before the accomplishment.
There are some who love to break down a game's mechanics, what makes their class tick, what can be done to improve performance. GW2 may not appeal to his person.
GW2 isn't trying to be all things to all people. It's trying to what it does do, better. If what it does do is what you want, it will hopefully be the game of trhe decade for you.
If it does not do what you want. It will probably be fun for a while and then it's time to move on.
To me, Title chasing is not a reward to keep going. Nothing ANet can do in that area will probably entice me. It never has. I was disappointed to learn this, but I can accept it. I will buy GW2, I will play GW2 as long as it holds my attention, but I don't expect that to be long term.
Im trying to figure out what i am farming in this game, if levels are designed to take 90 minutes each, which will probably mean about 30mnutes for me, and gear is supposed to be all uniform across levels just unique looks what am i farming for power?
Are skills still unlocked through quests and stuff? it seems as though all the weapon skills are given to you as you use the weapon as such i am not quite sure what the guild wars 2 end game is, is it just pvp?
Omfg.. the new generation. MMORPGS were never meant to be a game with a carrot on a stick. And really, i hate all those collectors. Collecting items, collecting levels.. since EQ and even more since WoW it is all about collecting useless stuff and run behind the carrot on the stick. Once upon a time, there were Socializer, Achiever, Killer and Explorer and nowadays we just have only Collectors, a perverted version of Achiever.. i guess i am really done with the genre.
GW2 is also full of those what you deem useless collelction and achievemnt stuff. That is the carrot in GW2. Every MMO needs some kind of pregression. Even GW2 has it only in different look and package. Titles, ranks, collectible items, gear, weapon skins..what do you think hall of monument is in GW1 and you can bring all that stuff into GW2.
I am really not here to say GW2 is the holy grail. And there is nothing wrong with some collecting, there is nothing wrong with some kind of progression and achievement, as it was in the old games, there was a place for Achievers, but the point is, i just cant stand it, if the only purpose of a game is collecting stuff, and everyone is forced into this treatmill.
I really dont know how it will turn out in GW2, but i really hope that it will at least have a end to it, at least for the competive part. If some want to collect a lot of titles, ranks and shiny stuff, which will not affect the general gameplay, its ok for me, to each his own. As long as i dont have to do it. AS long as there is a place for all the other player archetypes, the Explorer, the Socializer and the Killer, and are not forced into collecting.
Look, in old UO there was a really rare collection of paintings. They were a lot of ingame money worth, one of the most expensive items in UO. But, they were more or less useless, you could decorate your house with them, but thats it. So Collectors got there part, and i knew one, who was very proud of having the complete set of those paintings, and even charged a fee, like a museum, if you wanted to see them. It is ok, as long as i and the average guy dont was forced to hunt for those silly paintings, or in a WoW term, those epics.
Guild wars 2 lets you carrot anything you want a game to be. Except be obssesed about levels and item/gears for power (cos there are enough mmos that do that).
The problem is, we have been in mmos playing just to lvl up so we can go to a better dungeon, check out newer bosses and what they can do, strategise and kill them.Which is fun - for the first few runs. After that... we have run this current dungeon so many times we can run it in our sleep. So why are we still doing it? We do it cos we need the bloody gear sets from those dungeons. Why? Cos without that gear on us(me atleast) , we are butter to trash mobs in the next higher dungeon - a place we really wanna go now cos i for sure am curious on how to kill in there and have fun once more!... rinse and repeat. Companies change loot drop tables.. keep people busy till they have another "expansion" with same concept. I agree raids and dungeon runs are fun .... but the first few times. What i never liked is the rinse and repeat we were forced to "want to do".
GW2 is firstly changing the very nature in which we teamplay in PvE. Took a while for me to wrap my head around that fact 2 years back when i heard about it. yeah i been good tanker and dps classes in my other mmos (been a healer once.. no idea if i was good.. cos all healers are kept happy with compliments cos they are rare rofl)... but i am kinda excited that i have to tank soemtimes, dps and look after myself healthwise.. while i position myself and look at others in the team and see if i can lend some assist whenever i can (notice i didnt say - "look at others and see if they can lend me some assist - which would be the mentality of some of the dead weights we sometimes find in end game raids lol). So this is defiantely my first carrot.
I am not a major pvp person honestly. i am more a raid centric person for the grp tactics and strategy-to-kil-a-boss fun type of person. Similarly i love seiges with guild. I aint much into pking lowbies or ksing. The fact that in guild wars 2 i can go world vs world (tri server battles) be part of a grp in a different persistent world is fun! thats fun for me sometimes.. cos its a change of pace i can easily decide on and not worry my group will get thier loot in some dungeon and pass me by. Thereby missing a slot to go to next dungeon (which might make me look around shops desperately to buy that last piece of gear that finishes my set and hence ingame gold becomes another thing to break my head about).
I really want to improve my pvp skills. with this awesome concept in GW2 I can make a new char.. go to structured pvp area.. bam! become instantly lvl 80 with all skills unlocked and same gear. It would allow me to test my player skills (reaction time, skill chain choice etc) in pvp agaisnt other players and classes. its awesome. i dont have to worry about lvling up and then test against others. I dont have to worry about my gear or the other person's, to know if its my skill as a player that sucks or if its my gear. yeah! i just want to know where exactly i am lacking in pvp this time round and not be bogged down with lvl difference, gear, stones, runes. Atleast in structured PvP. While i can still strive to lessen the gap in WvW where my skills are unlocked based on skill points.. and i still would like lvling to the real lvl 80 although i have been scaled up to a fake lvl 80 in WvW cos it makes me a bit better (this last part i suggest watching some vids and reading to understand)
Other players like lore and exploration. An alpha stage game called planeshift (its alpha... so yeah gameplay is highly limited.. great for people who want to get into mmo game making in lore, coding, textures and the rest) had a very nice, intricate lore and i realy enjoyed roleplaying there. i have not seen any game give a damm to lore. So i can understand lore fans excitement too.
As mentioned at the begining of this post... Guild wars 2 lets you carrot anything you want a game to be. Except be obssesed about levels and item/gears for power.
Sorry for another long post and typos. I have edited this once to clean things up a bit for readability.
Comments
Remember to discuss matters with each other in a civil manner, even when disagreeing. I have just cleaned up the thread some, but if this continues, it may have to be locked.
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Religious debates don't get this heated.
Oh wait....
I just love how GW2 fans assume that in every other MMO except for GW2 either players are not having fun or too busy runing gear treadmill. By Blizzards own admission a minority of their subscribers actually took interest in end game raiding.;so i ask what all those millions have been doing in WOW and other themepark games for all these years? i will be the odd one and say hey they were having FUN.
I have played every themepark MMO that exists and never chased gear or did end game raiding neither i ever felt forced or pushed into that direction. Only because there is an option to grind gears doesn't mean i had to do it. People say hey play GW2 for fun, stop playing when you get bored, wait for new content /expansion and dive back in..Well that is how i have been playing MMOS all along.
GW2 will definately have a gear carrot. But then for specific looks. Just like in GW1. Don't underestimate how many players see that as serious goal in their game.
gw/gw2 = no subscription cost.
I guess it depends on what you want to do.
There are 1500 dynamic events that you can do and with the scaling system you won't be overpowered for evan the starter zone ones so if you had fun doing dynamic events you could go and see if you can find complete all of those. Downside the endgame versions scale up to 100 people so things will probably get hectic and not everyone will know what they are supposed to be doing and it's openworld so doing it with just your guildmates probably isn't very likely so if your a raider it probably won't fill in for raids.
There are the dungeons which have 1 starting layout and then 3 more optional harder paths to take so if you had fun doing those you could again try and find and complete all of them. Downside this is supposed to be small group content and I'm not sure again that this is what a committed raider is all that interested in as (this is just my opinion) about 90% of the challenge to raiding is organising 9 to 39 other players to be on the same page.
There are daily weekly monthly yearly kill collection quests so that should keep the complestionists busy for quite a bit though again not really a raider type thing.
Then there is the small scale instanced PvP for those who enjoy competive PvP on the small scale so if that floats your boat then you can do that. There is evan a tournament system so I guess if it becomes a success you may be able to become a profesional GW2 player/broardcaster. Downside if your not into PvP then well this won't be of any interest to you.
Lastly 3 sided conquerable world PvP that gives bonuses to your server if you win the round so if you enjoy open world PvP there is that. There is PvE on these maps so if you like your PvE mixed with a bit of watching over your shoulder for enemy players then there is that. Downside it resets so not really a lasting world changing thing and while the people you compete against changes the map doesn't so while the closest thing to the RvR from Daoc in a long time it's not quite the same plus if you don't like PvP at all well again your probably not going to evan want to try.
There we go plenty of options for the endgame charcter. If none of that sounds like fun to you then I guess this game just doesn't contain a carrot at all at least not as an MMO.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
There is nothing more dangerous than a true believer.
No MMO is for everyone.
If you don't like the idea of not being able to farm for item/gear progression, you should probably play another MMORPG instead of trying to change this one to match what you want.
Actually, you can probably say the same thing about every MMORPG:
If you don't like it, you probably should play another MMORPG instead of trying to change this one to match what you want.
So many [mod edits]. Censorship at its best.
@BadSpock: Exactly. However whenever I bring that up as a counter-arguement, I'm always met by people who say that such a statement is simply a cop-out and that said game must find a way to meet the expectations of everyone. Or something along those lines.
More sound logic has never been spoken on these boards.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
There in lies the problem. Selection pool is a bit shallow.
I recently looked at a few games. One MMO in particular looked like it could be OK, not the greatest game going but it could work for me....even if just short term.
I didn't mind the trial, it was actually interesting. Problem is, it's an Indie. And therefore has issues.
I am all for supporting Indies and I am even willing to live with less pollish and some bugs. But if I cannot stay connected to the server because there are too many hops between me and the game.... it's game over.
That's just one example in a book of short MMO horror stories.
To the original poster's question...
There will be non-tradeable items, gear, and maybe crafting mats that you can only get by adventuring, doing dungeons, etc. They will not be more statistically powerful, but they will provide unique looks to show off that you completed various content.
There will also be various achievements to earn, titles to earn, and skills and traits to earn through various means. There will be collections to work on...like all the armor dies or mini pets available in game. There will be minigames in cities to compete in with other players for rewards.
Then of course there's just playing all the content... at max level you can still go back to the entire world and explore and do dynamic events, because you're character will scale in power so that nothing is trivial. This is also true of dungeons...they have multiple different paths so that you can do them over and over without repeating the same thing, and all of them will be available to you at max level.
I dunno, the OP (remember him?) was really asking what the carrot was in this game if some of the more traditional ones such as gear wasn't one of them. (but of course it is, even if only for appearance sake)
What seems to end in GW2 (as was true in GW1) was the actual progression of character power. Most other MMORPGs don't do this, they provide ever increasing levels, skills, abilities, gear, that ultimately lead to increased character power, in either pve or pvp.
Since GW2 totally removes this essential and key definining factor (IMO) found in almost every other MMORPG ever created previously, once again I ask, is GW2 really a proper MMORPG as tradtitionally defined or something all together new and different much like it's predecessor was.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well then people will play it while it's fun and then stop when it's no longer fun.
er "welcome to life".
What is naive is thinking that everything lasts forever if nothing new is introduced.
Since Guild Wars 2 will introduce new content just like any mmo then It shouldn't necessarily be a problem.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I confess I wasn't a huge fan of the original Guild Wars, simply because I prefer more open, less instanced worlds. So GW2 seemed to be introducing a lot of elements that made it very interesting to me.
I do worry about the 'carrot' myself, simply because of my playstyle. I play dedicated healers in MMOs, because they're classes I can see having an impact on the direction of play. Call it more visual feedback of my efforts, but I'm wondering what I could do in GW2 to get that (maybe I couldn't). Perhaps I should roll a Guardian?
Another thing I'm curious about is the lack of a 'hard' trinity. I was a raider in WoW, and Blizzard's encounter scripting is second to none. The problem is that if you remove those elements from the game which enable encounters like that to exist, how do you down world bosses with skill-based play? How do you keep them difficult, besides having a lot of health and dealing a ton of damage? Will you have world bosses that require the skilled and co-ordinated play of groups of players, to the same degree players needed skill to down bosses in WoW? That's going to be really tough to implement without a trinity system. And I know GW2 won't have raids, but we'll see. One of my best moments in WoW was downing LK25 man with my guild, as one of the last healers up, right before a total wipe. I can still watch Paragon's heroic kill as a piece of truly great entertainment, with real nostalgia. How will you have moments like that without a trinity? I know GW2 isn't WoW, but skill is very important, and they have their work cut out making this system truly skilled in PvE.
I'm not too worried about the grinding bit. I expect to grind in GW2 to support crafting, at least. I like farming for crafting mats to max my professions. I also like armours, though, and not because they're pretty - I like to earn them. I can't see myself buying armour at all because it looks good, but each to their own.
Some of us don't raid for gear progression, though gear helps, at least in other games. We raid for content progression, the same way others run dungeons for progression - to have something new, fun, and challenging to do. It is the sense of achievement that counts, which comes from skill and effort, in the end. Will GW2 be able to give a player that same sense of achievement? I'm willing to try it to see if it will.
Check out my above post.
I would say that it is somewhat different, but not as different as people might think. Power in this game is more defined by versatility...and depth. So your character will progress by gaining a wider pool of choices on what skills / traits / armor / weapons to use. These will provide the typical character advancement that you find in most RPGs, just kind of in a different direction (horizontal instead of vertical).
Maybe. That's my understanding anyway... I'm hoping the RMT stuff doesn't ruin even that bit of advancement and make it not worthwhile to play. I'm going to wait and see what's available in the cash shop and how things play out a bit before spending any money with ArenaNet.
You gain the chance to be totally 733t...^^ No doubt there will be the usual hysterics about dps meters and other such, for those who just HAVE to min/max ANYTHING they do. Couple that in with mad skillz, and you pretty much have what it appears they are going for. Lets hope there is sufficient entertainment value involved for us mere mortals.
I think your question is valid. I can't answer it though.
But from what i can see, I think that in the end what GW2 will end up as a solid successful well developed niche game once the new car smell wears off and the masses discover that it really wasn't what they expected.
Omfg.. the new generation. MMORPGS were never meant to be a game with a carrot on a stick. And really, i hate all those collectors. Collecting items, collecting levels.. since EQ and even more since WoW it is all about collecting useless stuff and run behind the carrot on the stick. Once upon a time, there were Socializer, Achiever, Killer and Explorer and nowadays we just have only Collectors, a perverted version of Achiever.. i guess i am really done with the genre.
Yeah, looked to me like a question, the opening of a discussion. Sorta the whole point of having forums. I'm not sure who's trying to change GW2.
It will be interesting to see how this all looks, once we've played it, and see how it all really works.. and how well it all really works. When we can discuss it without it all being so speculative. Would be pretty foolish to write the game off entirely, just because of some doubts about how it will fit into the genre. Why try to push people away and quell discussion like that?
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I am both amused and sadened at how quickly people can become enraged over speculation and mis quoted text. Based on everything that I have read and watched, guild Wars 2 is simply rebuilding some of the ways we play MMO's. Take end game for example, gone are the raids and gear grind that we are so familiar with. This is not to say that there will be nothing to do at the end of the game but rather that the concept of end game is being redefined for their MMO. We are so programmed to expect certain things out of an MMO that when those things have been removed of redefined we cannot process it and assume that the world is coming to an end.
As for GW2, there is definitely a move away from the traditional 'Carrot on the Stick" approach to gameplay (specifically end game) but to assume that there will be nothing in its place is a little short sighted. I am not saying this a fanboy but rather based on A-Net's track record. They have a history of building things that the players want whether or not the players realize they want them. Even with the development of htis title we have seen time and time again where they have redefined a typical MMO concept that then received a lot of shock/critisim only to discover that this new thing wasn't so bad.
In the case of the "carrot", I think A-Net has enough foresight to be thinking about what is going to keep people interested in their title. Will it be different from what we are used to? Most definitely. But I would venture to guess that the 'carrots' they have in place will appeal to a large range of people. Things like PVP (both structured and world), personal story, and dungeons are just a few of things that have been designed around that concept of keeping people interested. So I think it might be a good idea to lighten up and actually wait for the game to prove itself out (which, based on all of the information we have received from those playing Beta, i would say they have already taken a giant leap in that direction). Will GW2 be for everyone? I hope not because there would be a serious lack of diversity in the world if that were the case. However I would also encourage you to not allow the fear of change to deter you from seeing it through. You might actually be pleasently surprised.
GW2 is also full of those what you deem useless collection and achievemnt stuff. That is the carrot in GW2. Every MMO needs some kind of progression. Even GW2 has it only in different look and package. Titles, ranks, collectible items, gear, weapon skins..what do you think hall of monument is in GW1? and you can bring all that stuff into GW2 from GW1.
Where GW2 could potentially lose players in that people want to see something for their work.
To some, a title is what tey want. To others, its big shoulders
to others, it's having their character become just a little bit more powerful then they were before the accomplishment.
There are some who love to break down a game's mechanics, what makes their class tick, what can be done to improve performance. GW2 may not appeal to his person.
GW2 isn't trying to be all things to all people. It's trying to what it does do, better. If what it does do is what you want, it will hopefully be the game of trhe decade for you.
If it does not do what you want. It will probably be fun for a while and then it's time to move on.
To me, Title chasing is not a reward to keep going. Nothing ANet can do in that area will probably entice me. It never has. I was disappointed to learn this, but I can accept it. I will buy GW2, I will play GW2 as long as it holds my attention, but I don't expect that to be long term.
You know what? It's OK. It's fine like that.
I am really not here to say GW2 is the holy grail. And there is nothing wrong with some collecting, there is nothing wrong with some kind of progression and achievement, as it was in the old games, there was a place for Achievers, but the point is, i just cant stand it, if the only purpose of a game is collecting stuff, and everyone is forced into this treatmill.
I really dont know how it will turn out in GW2, but i really hope that it will at least have a end to it, at least for the competive part. If some want to collect a lot of titles, ranks and shiny stuff, which will not affect the general gameplay, its ok for me, to each his own. As long as i dont have to do it. AS long as there is a place for all the other player archetypes, the Explorer, the Socializer and the Killer, and are not forced into collecting.
Look, in old UO there was a really rare collection of paintings. They were a lot of ingame money worth, one of the most expensive items in UO. But, they were more or less useless, you could decorate your house with them, but thats it. So Collectors got there part, and i knew one, who was very proud of having the complete set of those paintings, and even charged a fee, like a museum, if you wanted to see them. It is ok, as long as i and the average guy dont was forced to hunt for those silly paintings, or in a WoW term, those epics.
To answer the Topic...
Guild wars 2 lets you carrot anything you want a game to be. Except be obssesed about levels and item/gears for power (cos there are enough mmos that do that).
The problem is, we have been in mmos playing just to lvl up so we can go to a better dungeon, check out newer bosses and what they can do, strategise and kill them.Which is fun - for the first few runs. After that... we have run this current dungeon so many times we can run it in our sleep. So why are we still doing it? We do it cos we need the bloody gear sets from those dungeons. Why? Cos without that gear on us(me atleast) , we are butter to trash mobs in the next higher dungeon - a place we really wanna go now cos i for sure am curious on how to kill in there and have fun once more!... rinse and repeat. Companies change loot drop tables.. keep people busy till they have another "expansion" with same concept. I agree raids and dungeon runs are fun .... but the first few times. What i never liked is the rinse and repeat we were forced to "want to do".
GW2 is firstly changing the very nature in which we teamplay in PvE. Took a while for me to wrap my head around that fact 2 years back when i heard about it. yeah i been good tanker and dps classes in my other mmos (been a healer once.. no idea if i was good.. cos all healers are kept happy with compliments cos they are rare rofl)... but i am kinda excited that i have to tank soemtimes, dps and look after myself healthwise.. while i position myself and look at others in the team and see if i can lend some assist whenever i can (notice i didnt say - "look at others and see if they can lend me some assist - which would be the mentality of some of the dead weights we sometimes find in end game raids lol). So this is defiantely my first carrot.
I am not a major pvp person honestly. i am more a raid centric person for the grp tactics and strategy-to-kil-a-boss fun type of person. Similarly i love seiges with guild. I aint much into pking lowbies or ksing. The fact that in guild wars 2 i can go world vs world (tri server battles) be part of a grp in a different persistent world is fun! thats fun for me sometimes.. cos its a change of pace i can easily decide on and not worry my group will get thier loot in some dungeon and pass me by. Thereby missing a slot to go to next dungeon (which might make me look around shops desperately to buy that last piece of gear that finishes my set and hence ingame gold becomes another thing to break my head about).
I really want to improve my pvp skills. with this awesome concept in GW2 I can make a new char.. go to structured pvp area.. bam! become instantly lvl 80 with all skills unlocked and same gear. It would allow me to test my player skills (reaction time, skill chain choice etc) in pvp agaisnt other players and classes. its awesome. i dont have to worry about lvling up and then test against others. I dont have to worry about my gear or the other person's, to know if its my skill as a player that sucks or if its my gear. yeah! i just want to know where exactly i am lacking in pvp this time round and not be bogged down with lvl difference, gear, stones, runes. Atleast in structured PvP. While i can still strive to lessen the gap in WvW where my skills are unlocked based on skill points.. and i still would like lvling to the real lvl 80 although i have been scaled up to a fake lvl 80 in WvW cos it makes me a bit better (this last part i suggest watching some vids and reading to understand)
Other players like lore and exploration. An alpha stage game called planeshift (its alpha... so yeah gameplay is highly limited.. great for people who want to get into mmo game making in lore, coding, textures and the rest) had a very nice, intricate lore and i realy enjoyed roleplaying there. i have not seen any game give a damm to lore. So i can understand lore fans excitement too.
As mentioned at the begining of this post... Guild wars 2 lets you carrot anything you want a game to be. Except be obssesed about levels and item/gears for power.
Sorry for another long post and typos. I have edited this once to clean things up a bit for readability.
No sub so no need to keep you playing. lolwut?