The great thing about message forums is that they show who the irrational unimaginative people who jump to conclusions and freak out.
I really don't think they are jumping to conclusions...this news really has only two possible outcomes and both are (IMO) bad.
Since you can "buy" gold with real money, and since the AH uses gold as currency, that means that you essentially can buy anything in the AH with real money. This means one of two things:
1. Either nothing on the AH can ever offer your character an advantage...which means the economy will suck horribly because no one will want to buy anything.
OR
2. You can pay money to buy an in-game advantage.
I want a link to where you're getting your information regarding gold and the AH.
Read today's blog post. GEMS can be purchased with CASH. In game GOLD can then be purchased with GEMS. Therefor, in game GOLD can be purchased with CASH.
What blog post? ArenaNet's? MMORPG.com blog....? Which one? I'm apparently missing what you're seeing somehow.
edit: I found it AND....they are not 100 percent settled on what they're doing yet. That's the FIRST thing the blog post even SAYS. So let's, by all means, make a mountain out of a molehill.
The great thing about message forums is that they show who the irrational unimaginative people who jump to conclusions and freak out.
I really don't think they are jumping to conclusions...this news really has only two possible outcomes and both are (IMO) bad.
Since you can "buy" gold with real money, and since the AH uses gold as currency, that means that you essentially can buy anything in the AH with real money. This means one of two things:
1. Either nothing on the AH can ever offer your character an advantage...which means the economy will suck horribly because no one will want to buy anything.
OR
2. You can pay money to buy an in-game advantage.
I want a link to where you're getting your information regarding gold and the AH.
Read today's blog post. GEMS can be purchased with CASH. In game GOLD can then be purchased with GEMS. Therefor, in game GOLD can be purchased with CASH.
What blog post? ArenaNet's? MMORPG.com blog....? Which one? I'm apparently missing what you're seeing somehow.
Direct quote from the Mike O'Brien blog:
We have a new player-driven market that allows players to trade gold for gems and gems for gold. If you want something, whether it’s an in-game item or a microtransaction, you ultimately have two ways to get it: you can play to earn gold or you can use money to buy gems. We think that’s important, because it lets more players participate on a level playing field, whether they use their free time or their disposable income to do it.
I don't know if you feel the same way about this as I do, but I'm not amused. I've been really excited about GW2 and even had a degree of faith in ANet to not make the game P2W, but letting players buy gold for real money essentially makes it P2W. It's either P2W, or buying stuff is irrelevant like I said earlier. And both of these alternatives just suck.
The great thing about message forums is that they show who the irrational unimaginative people who jump to conclusions and freak out.
I really don't think they are jumping to conclusions...this news really has only two possible outcomes and both are (IMO) bad.
Since you can "buy" gold with real money, and since the AH uses gold as currency, that means that you essentially can buy anything in the AH with real money. This means one of two things:
1. Either nothing on the AH can ever offer your character an advantage...which means the economy will suck horribly because no one will want to buy anything.
OR
2. You can pay money to buy an in-game advantage.
I want a link to where you're getting your information regarding gold and the AH.
Read today's blog post. GEMS can be purchased with CASH. In game GOLD can then be purchased with GEMS. Therefor, in game GOLD can be purchased with CASH.
What blog post? ArenaNet's? MMORPG.com blog....? Which one? I'm apparently missing what you're seeing somehow.
Perhaps the blog post from ArenaNet that sparked today's discussions? I believe Creslin just linked it again. Usually you're more on top of things than this
We have a new player-driven market that allows players to trade gold for gems and gems for gold. If you want something, whether it’s an in-game item or a microtransaction, you ultimately have two ways to get it: you can play to earn gold or you can use money to buy gems. We think that’s important, because it lets more players participate on a level playing field, whether they use their free time or their disposable income to do it.
The great thing about message forums is that they show who the irrational unimaginative people who jump to conclusions and freak out.
I really don't think they are jumping to conclusions...this news really has only two possible outcomes and both are (IMO) bad.
Since you can "buy" gold with real money, and since the AH uses gold as currency, that means that you essentially can buy anything in the AH with real money. This means one of two things:
1. Either nothing on the AH can ever offer your character an advantage...which means the economy will suck horribly because no one will want to buy anything.
OR
2. You can pay money to buy an in-game advantage.
I want a link to where you're getting your information regarding gold and the AH.
Read today's blog post. GEMS can be purchased with CASH. In game GOLD can then be purchased with GEMS. Therefor, in game GOLD can be purchased with CASH.
What blog post? ArenaNet's? MMORPG.com blog....? Which one? I'm apparently missing what you're seeing somehow.
Perhaps the blog post from ArenaNet that sparked today's discussions? I believe Creslin just linked it again. Usually you're more on top of things than this
Yeah, I found it. The first thing it says is that plans aren't nailed down yet. So by all means, let's make a mountain out of a molehill.
It also says this:
Here’s our philosophy on microtransactions: We think players should have the opportunity to spend money on items that provide visual distinction and offer more ways to express themselves. They should also be able to spend money on account services and on time-saving convenience items. But it’s never OK for players to buy a game and not be able to enjoy what they paid for without additional purchases, and it’s never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time.
They will manipulate things until they are getting an average of AT LEAST $15.00/month to make up for not have a subscription.
This along with the OP are just non-sensical and prove how uninformed the HATERz are when it comes to this game, and other games that have microtransactions.
It really shows how they have to grasp at straws to keep up there hatred of a game they know nothing about.
I'm a day 1 buyer of GW2 regardless of what they do. However it would be nice if it doesn't turn into a P2W joke. If you actually care about the game, you may want to wrap your head around the concept that you'll do more harm than good defending every decision the devs make.
The great thing about message forums is that they show who the irrational unimaginative people who jump to conclusions and freak out.
I really don't think they are jumping to conclusions...this news really has only two possible outcomes and both are (IMO) bad.
Since you can "buy" gold with real money, and since the AH uses gold as currency, that means that you essentially can buy anything in the AH with real money. This means one of two things:
1. Either nothing on the AH can ever offer your character an advantage...which means the economy will suck horribly because no one will want to buy anything.
OR
2. You can pay money to buy an in-game advantage.
I want a link to where you're getting your information regarding gold and the AH.
Read today's blog post. GEMS can be purchased with CASH. In game GOLD can then be purchased with GEMS. Therefor, in game GOLD can be purchased with CASH.
What blog post? ArenaNet's? MMORPG.com blog....? Which one? I'm apparently missing what you're seeing somehow.
Perhaps the blog post from ArenaNet that sparked today's discussions? I believe Creslin just linked it again. Usually you're more on top of things than this
Yeah, I found it. The first thing it says is that plans aren't nailed down yet. So by all means, let's make a mountain out of a molehill.
Is it better to make a big deal out of it when it's too late to do anything to influence how the game develops? I ask even though I know the answer, having seen history repeat itself several times in other MMOs.
They will manipulate things until they are getting an average of AT LEAST $15.00/month to make up for not have a subscription.
Don't you have enough self-control to NOT spend the money? This is illogical. They didn't do that with GW1 and they won't do it with GW2. I guess there's no proving it to YOU though, since you're probably one of the haters that has no intention of playing but just comes to the GW2 forum to piss and moan.
Again, please read up so you can at least know what we're all talking about here. You're just making yourself sound foolish.
I have the self control not to pay, but others do not. It is those others who will effectively be paying for my subscription through the cash shop.
I have every intention of trying the game out, I'm just very happy to have finally been vindicated
They will manipulate things until they are getting an average of AT LEAST $15.00/month to make up for not have a subscription.
Don't you have enough self-control to NOT spend the money? This is illogical. They didn't do that with GW1 and they won't do it with GW2. I guess there's no proving it to YOU though, since you're probably one of the haters that has no intention of playing but just comes to the GW2 forum to piss and moan.
Again, please read up so you can at least know what we're all talking about here. You're just making yourself sound foolish.
I have the self control not to pay, but others do not. It is those others who will effectively be paying for my subscription through the cash shop.
I have every intention of trying the game out, I'm just very happy to have finally been vindicated
It it not a developer's job to babysit those with poor impulse control.
Come the f*** on!
You only read ONE of my posts, obviously, since I read the article of discussion here when I found it and the VERY F***ING first thing it says is that PLANS ARE NOT NAILED DOWN YET.
The great thing about message forums is that they show who the irrational unimaginative people who jump to conclusions and freak out.
I really don't think they are jumping to conclusions...this news really has only two possible outcomes and both are (IMO) bad.
Since you can "buy" gold with real money, and since the AH uses gold as currency, that means that you essentially can buy anything in the AH with real money. This means one of two things:
1. Either nothing on the AH can ever offer your character an advantage...which means the economy will suck horribly because no one will want to buy anything.
OR
2. You can pay money to buy an in-game advantage.
I want a link to where you're getting your information regarding gold and the AH.
Read today's blog post. GEMS can be purchased with CASH. In game GOLD can then be purchased with GEMS. Therefor, in game GOLD can be purchased with CASH.
What blog post? ArenaNet's? MMORPG.com blog....? Which one? I'm apparently missing what you're seeing somehow.
Perhaps the blog post from ArenaNet that sparked today's discussions? I believe Creslin just linked it again. Usually you're more on top of things than this
Yeah, I found it. The first thing it says is that plans aren't nailed down yet. So by all means, let's make a mountain out of a molehill.
Is it better to make a big deal out of it when it's too late to do anything to influence how the game develops? I ask even though I know the answer, having seen history repeat itself several times in other MMOs.
You think whining over here on MMORPG.com is helping anything? Seriously. The whiners and haters and doomsayers are amazingly devoid of common sense. If you have a personal "in" with the devs, then by all means DO SOMETHING AND SAVE US from the BIG BAD SCARY MICROTRANSACTIONS. /shiver
edit:
Better yet....just DON'T PLAY THE GAME. I won't miss you and neither will anyone else that's playing. If you think Anet's decisions are so piss poor then stay the f*** away from the game. It's SO SIMPLE.
They will manipulate things until they are getting an average of AT LEAST $15.00/month to make up for not have a subscription.
Don't you have enough self-control to NOT spend the money? This is illogical. They didn't do that with GW1 and they won't do it with GW2. I guess there's no proving it to YOU though, since you're probably one of the haters that has no intention of playing but just comes to the GW2 forum to piss and moan.
Again, please read up so you can at least know what we're all talking about here. You're just making yourself sound foolish.
I have the self control not to pay, but others do not. It is those others who will effectively be paying for my subscription through the cash shop.
I have every intention of trying the game out, I'm just very happy to have finally been vindicated
It it not a developer's job to babysit those with poor impulse control.
Come the f*** on!
You only read ONE of my posts, obviously, since I read the article of discussion here when I found it and the VERY F***ING first thing it says is that PLANS ARE NOT NAILED DOWN YET.
I'm not saying it's the dev's job, never even implied it, so COME THE FUCK ON!!! I simply stated that this is their business model, to market the game as B2P while letting the minority of people actually pay the majority of the costs, otherwise there would be no game for the rest of us to play.
He also said this is the FOUNDATION they are building on... You and those like you have been crying all along that it would only be cosmetic items, it won't be a real cash shop, etc. After all this time, they come out and tell you that you were wrong all along, yet you still have to try to defend a position you've already lost?
The great thing about message forums is that they show who the irrational unimaginative people who jump to conclusions and freak out.
I really don't think they are jumping to conclusions...this news really has only two possible outcomes and both are (IMO) bad.
Since you can "buy" gold with real money, and since the AH uses gold as currency, that means that you essentially can buy anything in the AH with real money. This means one of two things:
1. Either nothing on the AH can ever offer your character an advantage...which means the economy will suck horribly because no one will want to buy anything.
OR
2. You can pay money to buy an in-game advantage.
This system allows for a player to choose how they want to gain in game items: real life money or time. So #2 seems to be the logical conclusion. But is that bad? Thats the key thing a lot of chicken littles are not stopping to ask and basing it off of other games.
Their intent is to not allow one or the other have advantages OVER the other. Can a person use cash -> gem -> gold -> AH buying of items? Yes that part seems straight forward. But they have a crazy amount of ways to get gear. PvP killing of players, crafting, PvE, Karma. Has there been an MMO that players didnt end up having tons of gold anyway? Its not like time using players are going to be missing out on something. I don't see non real life cash using players having a disadvantage.
Lastly, there will be gold farmers. Every game has them. You can slow the spam but rarely stop it completely. If its going to happen then I want Arenanet to be the one getting the money. That way they can use it to pay for servers so I don't have to pay a monthly fee.
As far as we know at this point, there won't be much difference in how powerful your character is whether you spend $0, $5, or $1000 a month on gems. It's not like they are going to have uber gear that has 50% higher stats than are available anywhere else in the game on sale for $100 in gems.
Even if you could buy enough gems and convert them to gold to be able to buy the very best gear on the auction house or whatever they're calling it, it isn't going to make you leaps and bounds better than other players. This just isn't a WOW-like, gear matters most type of game.
So there really isn't any reason right now to put a $5/month limit on the cash shop. At least wait until they do something with the cash shop that is truly unbalancing before you get out the pitchforks and torches.
Man I thought GW2 was the second coming, ow this just gets better and better. And before you post do research so you know what you're talking about. Most of you ranting don't even understand how the item/karma system works, and or what can be purchased with gold. Research first, talk next, and reading other people's comments is not a good source for knowledge.
Perfect World MMO has similar system where players can buy/sell Cash Shop money through Auction House. IMO Its well worth it. Thanks to that there are no Gold Sellers in their games.
Kids dont have credit cards and as adults, we can make decisions for ourselves, well at least I can.
lol? You can have a debit card even if you are underage? You don't need a credit card at all to pay online.
@OP, really? $5 dollars per month is like what? A pack of chewing gums? I think that limiting the amount I am allowed to pay is just plain stupid. No one should tell me how I should to spend my money. If I want to pay 100 quid for stuff on the store I should be able to. It's my choice. As long as they don't add any items which give you in-game advantage, I am fine with it.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Without even discussing whether or not a cap on cash shop sales is a good idea, I can safely say that a $5 limit would not suffice. The notion that box sales were supposed to completely pay for the game alone is false. GW2 was designed with microtransactions in mind; it is expected income. Anet isn't simply being charitable. It is a business model, the goal of which is to still earn money. While I do not know their exact goals, I image they wish to net a comparable income to that of a subscription model, while allowing customers the luxury of flexibility on just how much they spend. That is, many customers will not spend a dime and enjoy the game thoroughly; but then others will spend much more than the standard $15 per month because, well, they have the money to spend.
If a cap of $5 is set, many players will still spend $0, nobody else will be able to compensate, and Anet's model will be a business failure from the start.
They will manipulate things until they are getting an average of AT LEAST $15.00/month to make up for not have a subscription.
Don't you have enough self-control to NOT spend the money? This is illogical. They didn't do that with GW1 and they won't do it with GW2. I guess there's no proving it to YOU though, since you're probably one of the haters that has no intention of playing but just comes to the GW2 forum to piss and moan.
Again, please read up so you can at least know what we're all talking about here. You're just making yourself sound foolish.
I have the self control not to pay, but others do not. It is those others who will effectively be paying for my subscription through the cash shop.
I have every intention of trying the game out, I'm just very happy to have finally been vindicated
It it not a developer's job to babysit those with poor impulse control.
Come the f*** on!
You only read ONE of my posts, obviously, since I read the article of discussion here when I found it and the VERY F***ING first thing it says is that PLANS ARE NOT NAILED DOWN YET.
I'm not saying it's the dev's job, never even implied it, so COME THE FUCK ON!!! I simply stated that this is their business model, to market the game as B2P while letting the minority of people actually pay the majority of the costs, otherwise there would be no game for the rest of us to play.
He also said this is the FOUNDATION they are building on... You and those like you have been crying all along that it would only be cosmetic items, it won't be a real cash shop, etc. After all this time, they come out and tell you that you were wrong all along, yet you still have to try to defend a position you've already lost?
It's not me that's wrong. It's your lack of understanding what was even SAID in the blog post. This is a buy to play game....do you have another b2p game to compare it to so that your microtransaction paranoia would have a foundation of some sort? Is there some other buy to play game that's done it better. Oh wait....you don't actually KNOW how this is going to turn out since the game isn't released yet.
Let's just wait and see how BIG of a SCARY problem it is and THEN....you can curse me all you want. Or....we'll see it's no big hairy deal and I can say "I told you so." How's that?
Too early to tell for sure....either way. Maybe we'll find out I'm "wrong" after the game releases, but I'm willing to bet I'm not. It's no big damn deal. Gear in GW2 is not like gear in WoW....there is no +245 strength and stuff on Guild Wars gear, it's not that kind of gear. You'll see.
Yeah, I found it. The first thing it says is that plans aren't nailed down yet. So by all means, let's make a mountain out of a molehill.
It also says this:
Here’s our philosophy on microtransactions: We think players should have the opportunity to spend money on items that provide visual distinction and offer more ways to express themselves. They should also be able to spend money on account services and on time-saving convenience items. But it’s never OK for players to buy a game and not be able to enjoy what they paid for without additional purchases, and it’s never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time.
It's true that they said that it's not OK for money spending players to get an advantage over players that spend time. But then they go right on to say that you can trade money for gold and thus buy anything in the AH with real money.
I really just think these two statements are direct contradictions to one another and it concerns me. It's like I said, either the AH is useless or you can get a real advantage over players by spending money. And considering that the game has a full crafting system and a pretty elaborate AH...I would guess that it's the latter.
Anyway, it's also true that said their plans aren't nailed down yet. So if there is anytime to "freak out" about this and express your dissatisfaction, this is the time. I am still really excited about GW2, but I do NOT want it to become P2W. And if you can buy gold with $, then that's exactly what it will likely be.
It's not about you, it's about the game and the principle of not milking customers and turning the game into a p2w-fest.
Everything else posted is irrelevant. If the cash shop truly isn't a threat to the integrity of the game as primarily B2P, then a 5 dollar limit has no counter-argument.
You don't understand...
The best gear in the game is primarily bought with karma and dungeon tokens.
Why limit the income of ArenaNet when it doesn't ruin the game? Will it change the game? Of course, but not to the extent that everyone is crying about. This is MUCH like what Eve is doing. They are fine...
U right, I am going to buy all the "time-saving convenience items" (as Arena Net calls it) so i dont have rez sickness, and i can level up faster with exp-bonus "time-saving" items.
"They should also be able to spend money on account services and on time-saving convenience items" -ArenaNet Quote
So I will spend as much as I want so I dont have to level up, and can run as many dungeons as I want without rez sickness or any death penalty since Arena Net will sell these items at the cash shop.
If you want to think this isn't game changing or unfair, then thank you. I am thankful GW2 will be P2Win. At least I am not blind about it. I accept it for what it is. This is the new MMO business model.
They will manipulate things until they are getting an average of AT LEAST $15.00/month to make up for not have a subscription.
Don't you have enough self-control to NOT spend the money? This is illogical. They didn't do that with GW1 and they won't do it with GW2. I guess there's no proving it to YOU though, since you're probably one of the haters that has no intention of playing but just comes to the GW2 forum to piss and moan.
Again, please read up so you can at least know what we're all talking about here. You're just making yourself sound foolish.
I have the self control not to pay, but others do not. It is those others who will effectively be paying for my subscription through the cash shop.
I have every intention of trying the game out, I'm just very happy to have finally been vindicated
It it not a developer's job to babysit those with poor impulse control.
Come the f*** on!
You only read ONE of my posts, obviously, since I read the article of discussion here when I found it and the VERY F***ING first thing it says is that PLANS ARE NOT NAILED DOWN YET.
I'm not saying it's the dev's job, never even implied it, so COME THE FUCK ON!!! I simply stated that this is their business model, to market the game as B2P while letting the minority of people actually pay the majority of the costs, otherwise there would be no game for the rest of us to play.
He also said this is the FOUNDATION they are building on... You and those like you have been crying all along that it would only be cosmetic items, it won't be a real cash shop, etc. After all this time, they come out and tell you that you were wrong all along, yet you still have to try to defend a position you've already lost?
It's not me that's wrong. It's your lack of understanding what was even SAID in the blog post. This is a buy to play game....do you have another b2p game to compare it to so that your microtransaction paranoia would have a foundation of some sort? Is there some other buy to play game that's done it better. Oh wait....you don't actually KNOW how this is going to turn out since the game isn't released yet.
Let's just wait and see how BIG of a SCARY problem it is and THEN....you can curse me all you want. Or....we'll see it's no big hairy deal and I can say "I told you so." How's that?
Too early to tell for sure....either way. Maybe we'll find out I'm "wrong" after the game releases, but I'm willing to bet I'm not. It's no big damn deal. Gear in GW2 is not like gear in WoW....there is no +245 strength and stuff on Guild Wars gear, it's not that kind of gear. You'll see.
The fact that you have to pay to buy the game upfront does nothing to make it any different than all of the other F2P models out there once you start playing, so we have plenty to compare it against.
I'm not saying this is a problem, I have no problem with it at all, back in the day I bought WoW gold. What I'm saying here is... I've been right all along. Come on now, that's what is really important here, isn't it?
They will manipulate things until they are getting an average of AT LEAST $15.00/month to make up for not have a subscription.
Don't you have enough self-control to NOT spend the money? This is illogical. They didn't do that with GW1 and they won't do it with GW2. I guess there's no proving it to YOU though, since you're probably one of the haters that has no intention of playing but just comes to the GW2 forum to piss and moan.
Again, please read up so you can at least know what we're all talking about here. You're just making yourself sound foolish.
I have the self control not to pay, but others do not. It is those others who will effectively be paying for my subscription through the cash shop.
I have every intention of trying the game out, I'm just very happy to have finally been vindicated
It it not a developer's job to babysit those with poor impulse control.
Come the f*** on!
You only read ONE of my posts, obviously, since I read the article of discussion here when I found it and the VERY F***ING first thing it says is that PLANS ARE NOT NAILED DOWN YET.
I'm not saying it's the dev's job, never even implied it, so COME THE FUCK ON!!! I simply stated that this is their business model, to market the game as B2P while letting the minority of people actually pay the majority of the costs, otherwise there would be no game for the rest of us to play.
He also said this is the FOUNDATION they are building on... You and those like you have been crying all along that it would only be cosmetic items, it won't be a real cash shop, etc. After all this time, they come out and tell you that you were wrong all along, yet you still have to try to defend a position you've already lost?
It's not me that's wrong. It's your lack of understanding what was even SAID in the blog post. This is a buy to play game....do you have another b2p game to compare it to so that your microtransaction paranoia would have a foundation of some sort? Is there some other buy to play game that's done it better. Oh wait....you don't actually KNOW how this is going to turn out since the game isn't released yet.
Let's just wait and see how BIG of a SCARY problem it is and THEN....you can curse me all you want. Or....we'll see it's no big hairy deal and I can say "I told you so." How's that?
Too early to tell for sure....either way. Maybe we'll find out I'm "wrong" after the game releases, but I'm willing to bet I'm not. It's no big damn deal. Gear in GW2 is not like gear in WoW....there is no +245 strength and stuff on Guild Wars gear, it's not that kind of gear. You'll see.
The fact that you have to pay to buy the game upfront does nothing to make it any different than all of the other F2P models out there once you start playing, so we have plenty to compare it against.
I'm not saying this is a problem, I have no problem with it at all, back in the day I bought WoW gold. What I'm saying here is... I've been right all along. Come on now, that's what is really important here, isn't it?
Well $60 for GW2 is about a 6month of EvE and the average stay there is 7months so thats a lot different to a F2P title where they start with 0$
And stop comparing it to Eve Online. This is NOT what Eve Online is doing at ALL.
I cant buy anything from Eve Online that allows me to save time on ANYTHING. There is no special "Faster skill leveling" items. There is no "time-saving convenience" items in Eve Online you can buy.
Comments
What blog post? ArenaNet's? MMORPG.com blog....? Which one? I'm apparently missing what you're seeing somehow.
edit: I found it AND....they are not 100 percent settled on what they're doing yet. That's the FIRST thing the blog post even SAYS. So let's, by all means, make a mountain out of a molehill.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Direct quote from the Mike O'Brien blog:
We have a new player-driven market that allows players to trade gold for gems and gems for gold. If you want something, whether it’s an in-game item or a microtransaction, you ultimately have two ways to get it: you can play to earn gold or you can use money to buy gems. We think that’s important, because it lets more players participate on a level playing field, whether they use their free time or their disposable income to do it.
Link: http://www.arena.net/blog/mike-obrien-on-microtransactions-in-guild-wars-2
I don't know if you feel the same way about this as I do, but I'm not amused. I've been really excited about GW2 and even had a degree of faith in ANet to not make the game P2W, but letting players buy gold for real money essentially makes it P2W. It's either P2W, or buying stuff is irrelevant like I said earlier. And both of these alternatives just suck.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Perhaps the blog post from ArenaNet that sparked today's discussions?
I believe Creslin just linked it again. Usually you're more on top of things than this 
trade not purchase gold. Re read it.
key part- you ultimately have two ways to get it: you can play to earn gold or you can use money to buy gems.
Yeah, I found it. The first thing it says is that plans aren't nailed down yet. So by all means, let's make a mountain out of a molehill.
It also says this:
Here’s our philosophy on microtransactions: We think players should have the opportunity to spend money on items that provide visual distinction and offer more ways to express themselves. They should also be able to spend money on account services and on time-saving convenience items. But it’s never OK for players to buy a game and not be able to enjoy what they paid for without additional purchases, and it’s never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I'm a day 1 buyer of GW2 regardless of what they do. However it would be nice if it doesn't turn into a P2W joke. If you actually care about the game, you may want to wrap your head around the concept that you'll do more harm than good defending every decision the devs make.
Is it better to make a big deal out of it when it's too late to do anything to influence how the game develops? I ask even though I know the answer, having seen history repeat itself several times in other MMOs.
Again, please read up so you can at least know what we're all talking about here. You're just making yourself sound foolish.
I have the self control not to pay, but others do not. It is those others who will effectively be paying for my subscription through the cash shop.
I have every intention of trying the game out, I'm just very happy to have finally been vindicated
It it not a developer's job to babysit those with poor impulse control.
Come the f*** on!
You only read ONE of my posts, obviously, since I read the article of discussion here when I found it and the VERY F***ING first thing it says is that PLANS ARE NOT NAILED DOWN YET.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
You think whining over here on MMORPG.com is helping anything? Seriously. The whiners and haters and doomsayers are amazingly devoid of common sense. If you have a personal "in" with the devs, then by all means DO SOMETHING AND SAVE US from the BIG BAD SCARY MICROTRANSACTIONS. /shiver
edit:
Better yet....just DON'T PLAY THE GAME. I won't miss you and neither will anyone else that's playing. If you think Anet's decisions are so piss poor then stay the f*** away from the game. It's SO SIMPLE.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I'm not saying it's the dev's job, never even implied it, so COME THE FUCK ON!!! I simply stated that this is their business model, to market the game as B2P while letting the minority of people actually pay the majority of the costs, otherwise there would be no game for the rest of us to play.
He also said this is the FOUNDATION they are building on... You and those like you have been crying all along that it would only be cosmetic items, it won't be a real cash shop, etc. After all this time, they come out and tell you that you were wrong all along, yet you still have to try to defend a position you've already lost?
This system allows for a player to choose how they want to gain in game items: real life money or time. So #2 seems to be the logical conclusion. But is that bad? Thats the key thing a lot of chicken littles are not stopping to ask and basing it off of other games.
Their intent is to not allow one or the other have advantages OVER the other. Can a person use cash -> gem -> gold -> AH buying of items? Yes that part seems straight forward. But they have a crazy amount of ways to get gear. PvP killing of players, crafting, PvE, Karma. Has there been an MMO that players didnt end up having tons of gold anyway? Its not like time using players are going to be missing out on something. I don't see non real life cash using players having a disadvantage.
Lastly, there will be gold farmers. Every game has them. You can slow the spam but rarely stop it completely. If its going to happen then I want Arenanet to be the one getting the money. That way they can use it to pay for servers so I don't have to pay a monthly fee.
Does this work like EVE's? If so then it's definitely not a problem.
As far as we know at this point, there won't be much difference in how powerful your character is whether you spend $0, $5, or $1000 a month on gems. It's not like they are going to have uber gear that has 50% higher stats than are available anywhere else in the game on sale for $100 in gems.
Even if you could buy enough gems and convert them to gold to be able to buy the very best gear on the auction house or whatever they're calling it, it isn't going to make you leaps and bounds better than other players. This just isn't a WOW-like, gear matters most type of game.
So there really isn't any reason right now to put a $5/month limit on the cash shop. At least wait until they do something with the cash shop that is truly unbalancing before you get out the pitchforks and torches.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
Man I thought GW2 was the second coming, ow this just gets better and better. And before you post do research so you know what you're talking about. Most of you ranting don't even understand how the item/karma system works, and or what can be purchased with gold. Research first, talk next, and reading other people's comments is not a good source for knowledge.
Perfect World MMO has similar system where players can buy/sell Cash Shop money through Auction House. IMO Its well worth it. Thanks to that there are no Gold Sellers in their games.
lol? You can have a debit card even if you are underage? You don't need a credit card at all to pay online.
@OP, really? $5 dollars per month is like what? A pack of chewing gums? I think that limiting the amount I am allowed to pay is just plain stupid. No one should tell me how I should to spend my money. If I want to pay 100 quid for stuff on the store I should be able to. It's my choice. As long as they don't add any items which give you in-game advantage, I am fine with it.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Without even discussing whether or not a cap on cash shop sales is a good idea, I can safely say that a $5 limit would not suffice. The notion that box sales were supposed to completely pay for the game alone is false. GW2 was designed with microtransactions in mind; it is expected income. Anet isn't simply being charitable. It is a business model, the goal of which is to still earn money. While I do not know their exact goals, I image they wish to net a comparable income to that of a subscription model, while allowing customers the luxury of flexibility on just how much they spend. That is, many customers will not spend a dime and enjoy the game thoroughly; but then others will spend much more than the standard $15 per month because, well, they have the money to spend.
If a cap of $5 is set, many players will still spend $0, nobody else will be able to compensate, and Anet's model will be a business failure from the start.
It's not me that's wrong. It's your lack of understanding what was even SAID in the blog post. This is a buy to play game....do you have another b2p game to compare it to so that your microtransaction paranoia would have a foundation of some sort? Is there some other buy to play game that's done it better. Oh wait....you don't actually KNOW how this is going to turn out since the game isn't released yet.
Let's just wait and see how BIG of a SCARY problem it is and THEN....you can curse me all you want. Or....we'll see it's no big hairy deal and I can say "I told you so." How's that?
Too early to tell for sure....either way. Maybe we'll find out I'm "wrong" after the game releases, but I'm willing to bet I'm not. It's no big damn deal. Gear in GW2 is not like gear in WoW....there is no +245 strength and stuff on Guild Wars gear, it's not that kind of gear. You'll see.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Thank you.
Absolutely NO to any transaction limit.
It's true that they said that it's not OK for money spending players to get an advantage over players that spend time. But then they go right on to say that you can trade money for gold and thus buy anything in the AH with real money.
I really just think these two statements are direct contradictions to one another and it concerns me. It's like I said, either the AH is useless or you can get a real advantage over players by spending money. And considering that the game has a full crafting system and a pretty elaborate AH...I would guess that it's the latter.
Anyway, it's also true that said their plans aren't nailed down yet. So if there is anytime to "freak out" about this and express your dissatisfaction, this is the time. I am still really excited about GW2, but I do NOT want it to become P2W. And if you can buy gold with $, then that's exactly what it will likely be.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
U right, I am going to buy all the "time-saving convenience items" (as Arena Net calls it) so i dont have rez sickness, and i can level up faster with exp-bonus "time-saving" items.
"They should also be able to spend money on account services and on time-saving convenience items" -ArenaNet Quote
So I will spend as much as I want so I dont have to level up, and can run as many dungeons as I want without rez sickness or any death penalty since Arena Net will sell these items at the cash shop.
The fact that you have to pay to buy the game upfront does nothing to make it any different than all of the other F2P models out there once you start playing, so we have plenty to compare it against.
I'm not saying this is a problem, I have no problem with it at all, back in the day I bought WoW gold. What I'm saying here is... I've been right all along. Come on now, that's what is really important here, isn't it?
Don't you have enough self-control to NOT spend the money? This is illogical. They didn't do that with GW1 and they won't do it with GW2. I guess there's no proving it to YOU though, since you're probably one of the haters that has no intention of playing but just comes to the GW2 forum to piss and moan.
Again, please read up so you can at least know what we're all talking about here. You're just making yourself sound foolish.
I have the self control not to pay, but others do not. It is those others who will effectively be paying for my subscription through the cash shop.
I have every intention of trying the game out, I'm just very happy to have finally been vindicated
It it not a developer's job to babysit those with poor impulse control.
Come the f*** on!
You only read ONE of my posts, obviously, since I read the article of discussion here when I found it and the VERY F***ING first thing it says is that PLANS ARE NOT NAILED DOWN YET.
I'm not saying it's the dev's job, never even implied it, so COME THE FUCK ON!!! I simply stated that this is their business model, to market the game as B2P while letting the minority of people actually pay the majority of the costs, otherwise there would be no game for the rest of us to play.
He also said this is the FOUNDATION they are building on... You and those like you have been crying all along that it would only be cosmetic items, it won't be a real cash shop, etc. After all this time, they come out and tell you that you were wrong all along, yet you still have to try to defend a position you've already lost?
It's not me that's wrong. It's your lack of understanding what was even SAID in the blog post. This is a buy to play game....do you have another b2p game to compare it to so that your microtransaction paranoia would have a foundation of some sort? Is there some other buy to play game that's done it better. Oh wait....you don't actually KNOW how this is going to turn out since the game isn't released yet.
Let's just wait and see how BIG of a SCARY problem it is and THEN....you can curse me all you want. Or....we'll see it's no big hairy deal and I can say "I told you so." How's that?
Too early to tell for sure....either way. Maybe we'll find out I'm "wrong" after the game releases, but I'm willing to bet I'm not. It's no big damn deal. Gear in GW2 is not like gear in WoW....there is no +245 strength and stuff on Guild Wars gear, it's not that kind of gear. You'll see.
The fact that you have to pay to buy the game upfront does nothing to make it any different than all of the other F2P models out there once you start playing, so we have plenty to compare it against.
I'm not saying this is a problem, I have no problem with it at all, back in the day I bought WoW gold. What I'm saying here is... I've been right all along. Come on now, that's what is really important here, isn't it?
Well $60 for GW2 is about a 6month of EvE and the average stay there is 7months so thats a lot different to a F2P title where they start with 0$And stop comparing it to Eve Online. This is NOT what Eve Online is doing at ALL.
I cant buy anything from Eve Online that allows me to save time on ANYTHING. There is no special "Faster skill leveling" items. There is no "time-saving convenience" items in Eve Online you can buy.