Blame people that buy pre-orders, life subs, collectors editions, and regular accounts of games that copy WoW. Companies make what people will buy. The market has shown people will shell out for these games even if they leave in a few months. How many bought SWTOR...what makes you think another company will not copy with the pitch to investors that they can get the same sales, but their game will keep people. If people never bought then investors would not invest in those games.
Yep.
WE decide what games are going to be made. WE do. If gamers are happy paying for the garbage that's out these days then that's exactly what they're going to keep pushing on us.
No, WE really don't.
WE are the junkies. They are the drug dealers.
They say, "This is what I got.", and WE say, "Whatever, man! As long as the pain stops!"
If, by some miracle, WE break the habit, they won't try to win us back with something new, they'll just move to another genre and leave this one in shambles.
They're locusts like that.
If it stops making money, trying something new is still too risky. They'll see MMORPGs as a fad who's time has passed. Safer just to find another genre that seems profitable and move on to the next cornfield.
No, the devs are the ones that have to take the first step for things to be different.
(Reason for editing: I added a comma where there wasn't one. God, I'm becoming an English teacher! )
Are you serious? You're trying to blame the 'drug dealers' for your addiction when it's dependent on you to stop. Noone is forcing you to buy their drugs (play their game), and you have plenty of other options.
No, it's the addicts that have to take the first step. The 'drug dealers' are merely providing what the addicts want.
Wow have a full seamless continent for exploration.
Instances are not seamless so i have to disagree with it.
He said "continent", as in landscape/landmass, not "dungeon" or content.
The point is relevant because what he/she is referring to is an instanced paradigm at every zone entry, versus what WoW and others did which was to restrict zoning to major landmasses.
Encounter spaces of course MUST be instanced. You do understand why that is don't you? Your only exception would be a location intended as a public instance.
Otherwise, yeah, you instance dungeons that have boss/farming/quest goals for a group/raid.
Last i looked dunguens were on the continent if they were floating in the sky then yes you have a valid point but they arnt.
Instances were only your group can be at any one point in time isnt very RPG like to me, sure everquest zone style created some conflict but they were always unpridicatable and somewhat exciting i much rather Everquest style of the entire place being accesable by anyone at any given time that having an instance were to groups can be in the same place and not be at the same time its stupid imo.
WoW is sortof like Windows, an idea stolen from someone else, propogated to seem better, usable on lower end machines, where people would take up arms to defend it's producer's actions even illegal ones (*cough* Monopoly *cough*) and where no matter how many things have been done to stunt the industries growth in it's personal category, people still say somehow it's the best thing since sliced bread. All the same excuses are given for it as well. (Oh that might be put in in the next expansion/upgrade.)
Blame people that buy pre-orders, life subs, collectors editions, and regular accounts of games that copy WoW. Companies make what people will buy. The market has shown people will shell out for these games even if they leave in a few months. How many bought SWTOR...what makes you think another company will not copy with the pitch to investors that they can get the same sales, but their game will keep people. If people never bought then investors would not invest in those games.
Yep.
WE decide what games are going to be made. WE do. If gamers are happy paying for the garbage that's out these days then that's exactly what they're going to keep pushing on us.
No, WE really don't.
WE are the junkies. They are the drug dealers.
They say, "This is what I got.", and WE say, "Whatever, man! As long as the pain stops!"
If, by some miracle, WE break the habit, they won't try to win us back with something new, they'll just move to another genre and leave this one in shambles.
They're locusts like that.
If it stops making money, trying something new is still too risky. They'll see MMORPGs as a fad who's time has passed. Safer just to find another genre that seems profitable and move on to the next cornfield.
No, the devs are the ones that have to take the first step for things to be different.
(Reason for editing: I added a comma where there wasn't one. God, I'm becoming an English teacher! )
Are you serious? You're trying to blame the 'drug dealers' for your addiction when it's dependent on you to stop. Noone is forcing you to buy their drugs (play their game), and you have plenty of other options.
No, it's the addicts that have to take the first step. The 'drug dealers' are merely providing what the addicts want.
You completely missed the point of my post. Its not the "addiction" that I'm addressing, its the fact that not paying for MMOs WONT tempt companies to make better ones. It will just cause them to stop and move on to a different genre.
WOW effect after 2004 is that every MMO developpers tried to get a part of the cake. Instead of trying to develop something new and original they all tried to make clones. MMO's originality died after 2004.
Originality doesnt put food on the table.
Star Wars Galaxies is hailed by MMORPG.com posters as the best pre-WoW MMO but it was a horrible, badly designed, bug ridden mess that was bleeding subs before WoW came out.
I think you have identified one of the key reasons that made WoW loosing subscribers and appealing: the introduction of the LFG system and the extreme simplification of heroics.
During the Burning Crusade expansion days, you were in practice forced to have a good reputation on your server or else no one would play with you or accept in a group or guild as considered “not viable” or “a troublemaker”. Completing a heroic dungeon was considered an actual achievement, funny and “morally” rewarding, giving the ability to make new friends, always available nearby on your server.
Some people were not really capable but always welcome anyway in groups, as considered well mannered. I was personally more willing to support and have in team nice, friendly and ironic people rather than hardcore players acting childishly and selfishly. Those didn’t have a long life and were typically banned (at least “morally”) in some weeks time. A person with good reputation (knowing tactics, how to mark, able to distribute reward, maintaining the proper peace and kicking BM players) was able to put up a full group for a heroic in 1 min after spamming “LFG/LFM” in General chat. And we all knew each other, my server was a sort of huge community of known players. More: as marking mobs was compulsory, full attention of everybody and cooperation was a must, else the wipe was the immediate result. No timewasters were accepted: either you had the required time the group needed to complete (and you had to state it at the beginning) or else you didn’t even have to join and jeopardize the game of the others.
The new system destroyed all of this. Yes, it is quicker to attend to a heroic (well, even not that much, if you’re a DPS…) but the drawbacks have been way more than the advantages.
Nobody cares any longer about personal reputation: you are now anonymous. You just enter LFG to complete your daily work, more because it is something you have to do rather than a chance to stay with friends and have a funny challenge. We moved quickly from a social event to a repetitive job. People enter in groups and don’t even say “hello” anymore. You in practice play alone. And the first thing that goes wrong they blame you and leave. BM is becoming THE rule. Marking is useless and nobody cares about tactics and gaming, just need to get at the end of the instance and see if the reward is useful and get the Justice Points you need. No goodbyes and “thanks, I’ll add you to my friend list, it was fun!”.
Now just imagine yourself returning home from work or school, willing to spend 1 hour playing and get very personal insults directed at your parents right after the first pull. You get to a point where you say to yourself “I don’t remember anymore the reason why I used to play: was it to have fun or what ? Cause I have had none for such a loooong time…”
"The second positive WoW shared with gaming culture is its forgiving nature towards death and loss."
I disagree. What it shared is the idea that death means little to nothing which in turn took the excitement and thrill out of playing. I've played games where people would suicide to get back to where they wanted to be, that's ridiculous. That removed a lot of immersion and overall fun out of games and replaced it with a "throw-away" mentality.
I'll take that heart-pumping action, thrill and excitement over a throw-away "I don't care" mentality any day.
For me WoW made everything easier and reduce how fun the game was.
The WoW effect
1999-2004 games = Fun and challenging
2004-2011 games = Easy, no challenges, No penalties and not very fun
This is just my option, Because WoW was the first game to advertise on TV globaly it was the reason why it got so many subscribers, and because of this all the games afterwards basicly copied them (Clones). Almost no one knew about MMORPG before blizzard advertised WoW. If WoW didnt advertise like they did i doubt they would of gotten the amount of subscribers than they did and the entire mmorpg market would be compeltly different and i reckon it would of been better than it is atm if Blizzard didnt advertise WoW.
For me wow made everything better.
1999-2004 - mmo world was grey and boring and there was no real competition
2004-2012- WOW did what nobody did before-complete mmorpg with first real pvp challenges , for me is Arena in wow Alpha&Omega of fantasy genre mmo pvp. 2vs2 3vs3 5vs5 -to get ranking ove 2,2 k you must be really good player. WOW is pure quality and he will stay a standard for success in mmo for long time. Huge , huge lands and so much to explore, 1000 of achievements, epic invasions of enemy faction cities, every class has his own place in pvp or pve and nobody is useless, game play is so smooth and so fluid in every situation, so many mounts of every kind, best auction house system, so many battlegrounds you cant be bored even in bg type pvp, every class is so specific that you want level every one of them, amazing sound and music, so many raids and we can count forever.
Are you serious? Jesus christ... we're never going to get another decent MMO if this thought process is common.
Some prefer games that are "hard to play and impossible to master". Raids in WoW can be difficult enough. But some think everything should be a challenge. It should not even be easy to kill the first mob at lv1...
WoW is to easy if you want that type of game. And I think thats why its popular. And this is also why we get WoW-clones. But it also means that we really need high quality niche games. We need games that are different and some that are much more difficult.
For me WoW made everything easier and reduce how fun the game was.
The WoW effect
1999-2004 games = Fun and challenging
2004-2011 games = Easy, no challenges, No penalties and not very fun
This is just my option, Because WoW was the first game to advertise on TV globaly it was the reason why it got so many subscribers, and because of this all the games afterwards basicly copied them (Clones). Almost no one knew about MMORPG before blizzard advertised WoW. If WoW didnt advertise like they did i doubt they would of gotten the amount of subscribers than they did and the entire mmorpg market would be compeltly different and i reckon it would of been better than it is atm if Blizzard didnt advertise WoW.
For me wow made everything better.
1999-2004 - mmo world was grey and boring and there was no real competition
2004-2012- WOW did what nobody did before-complete mmorpg with first real pvp challenges , for me is Arena in wow AlphaΩ of fantasy genre mmo pvp. 2vs2 3vs3 5vs5 -to get ranking ove 2,2 k you must be really good player. WOW is pure quality and he will stay a standard for success in mmo for long time. Huge , huge lands and so much to explore, 1000 of achievements, epic invasions of enemy faction cities, every class has his own place in pvp or pve and nobody is useless, game play is so smooth and so fluid in every situation, so many mounts of every kind, best auction house system, so many battlegrounds you cant be bored even in bg type pvp, every class is so specific that you want level every one of them, amazing sound and music, so many raids and we can count forever.
Are you serious? Jesus christ... we're never going to get another decent MMO if this thought process is common.
Eh, dude loves him some WoW. I completely disagree with each and every word he posted...but he's got a right to his opinion.
Comments
Are you serious? You're trying to blame the 'drug dealers' for your addiction when it's dependent on you to stop. Noone is forcing you to buy their drugs (play their game), and you have plenty of other options.
No, it's the addicts that have to take the first step. The 'drug dealers' are merely providing what the addicts want.
Last i looked dunguens were on the continent if they were floating in the sky then yes you have a valid point but they arnt.
Instances were only your group can be at any one point in time isnt very RPG like to me, sure everquest zone style created some conflict but they were always unpridicatable and somewhat exciting i much rather Everquest style of the entire place being accesable by anyone at any given time that having an instance were to groups can be in the same place and not be at the same time its stupid imo.
WoW is sortof like Windows, an idea stolen from someone else, propogated to seem better, usable on lower end machines, where people would take up arms to defend it's producer's actions even illegal ones (*cough* Monopoly *cough*) and where no matter how many things have been done to stunt the industries growth in it's personal category, people still say somehow it's the best thing since sliced bread. All the same excuses are given for it as well. (Oh that might be put in in the next expansion/upgrade.)
You completely missed the point of my post. Its not the "addiction" that I'm addressing, its the fact that not paying for MMOs WONT tempt companies to make better ones. It will just cause them to stop and move on to a different genre.
*Cough* Fat Balding Themepark Fanboi Alert *cough*
I still don't understand the Wow hype. I logged in once and never again.
I think you have identified one of the key reasons that made WoW loosing subscribers and appealing: the introduction of the LFG system and the extreme simplification of heroics.
During the Burning Crusade expansion days, you were in practice forced to have a good reputation on your server or else no one would play with you or accept in a group or guild as considered “not viable” or “a troublemaker”. Completing a heroic dungeon was considered an actual achievement, funny and “morally” rewarding, giving the ability to make new friends, always available nearby on your server.
Some people were not really capable but always welcome anyway in groups, as considered well mannered. I was personally more willing to support and have in team nice, friendly and ironic people rather than hardcore players acting childishly and selfishly. Those didn’t have a long life and were typically banned (at least “morally”) in some weeks time. A person with good reputation (knowing tactics, how to mark, able to distribute reward, maintaining the proper peace and kicking BM players) was able to put up a full group for a heroic in 1 min after spamming “LFG/LFM” in General chat. And we all knew each other, my server was a sort of huge community of known players. More: as marking mobs was compulsory, full attention of everybody and cooperation was a must, else the wipe was the immediate result. No timewasters were accepted: either you had the required time the group needed to complete (and you had to state it at the beginning) or else you didn’t even have to join and jeopardize the game of the others.
The new system destroyed all of this. Yes, it is quicker to attend to a heroic (well, even not that much, if you’re a DPS…) but the drawbacks have been way more than the advantages.
Nobody cares any longer about personal reputation: you are now anonymous. You just enter LFG to complete your daily work, more because it is something you have to do rather than a chance to stay with friends and have a funny challenge. We moved quickly from a social event to a repetitive job. People enter in groups and don’t even say “hello” anymore. You in practice play alone. And the first thing that goes wrong they blame you and leave. BM is becoming THE rule. Marking is useless and nobody cares about tactics and gaming, just need to get at the end of the instance and see if the reward is useful and get the Justice Points you need. No goodbyes and “thanks, I’ll add you to my friend list, it was fun!”.
Now just imagine yourself returning home from work or school, willing to spend 1 hour playing and get very personal insults directed at your parents right after the first pull. You get to a point where you say to yourself “I don’t remember anymore the reason why I used to play: was it to have fun or what ? Cause I have had none for such a loooong time…”
I've said these same words a million times.
Are you serious? Jesus christ... we're never going to get another decent MMO if this thought process is common.
Some prefer games that are "hard to play and impossible to master". Raids in WoW can be difficult enough. But some think everything should be a challenge. It should not even be easy to kill the first mob at lv1...
WoW is to easy if you want that type of game. And I think thats why its popular. And this is also why we get WoW-clones. But it also means that we really need high quality niche games. We need games that are different and some that are much more difficult.
Eh, dude loves him some WoW. I completely disagree with each and every word he posted...but he's got a right to his opinion.