Story telling is the next evolution of Themepark MMORPGs, taking the genre further away from persistant, world sharing and more into instanced single, small multi-player experience.
I am starting to think that the original vision of persistant world where not everyone are the heroes but rather a citizen is more and more becoming distant. Only indy companies seem to care about it and most MMORPG gamers, which means WoW player or ex-WoW players, dont appreciate those kind of things so big budget producers wont either.
People cant create their own stories anymore like they did in early mmo's. also the RPG part of MMORPG entails story. So you're wrong.
Originally, RPG = Role Playing Game, meaning players took on the role of a character as in a book or film (roleplay ring a bell?) in real time with no pre-planned script. The *players* in RPGs are the ones playing the role, living out the story, with. That's where the story element associated with RPG came from. The player driven story, the story that evolves bvecause of the players actions.
So, the only part to imply story is actually implying that it's a player driven story. The fact that it's been bastardised over the years doesn't alter the initial meaning.
It's in the name: Role Playing Game. Players were given a world in which they played the role of characters, and the story unfolded around them as they adventured through it - it wasn't spoon fed to you in a series of cutscenes. Sure early Crpgs & Nintendo RPGs were limited technologically, and couldn't quite recreate the role playing game experience, but let's not pretend that those emulations of the experience are where the definition came from, because it's flat out wrong.
I never would have gotten into RPGs as a kid if it meant 'Shut up and let me dictate what happens to you every step of the way!' was the format those games were delivered in. That's only what you get when someone failing to deliver a role playing game experience resorts to emulating it stiffly, rather than the definition of RPG.
It was the blank slate and open world with no script for our characters that was enticing, if I wanted pre-planned stories I had books.
MMO-RPG without a story is just MMO! You are clearly interested in playing mmo, but not role playing. Some mmos will allow that some won't.
RPGs are about being forced down a story line? Sorry but I strongly disagree about this. Bioware RPGs are like that but RPGs can be open world as well, just look at Skyrim. You can roleplay just fine without being forced down a dev created storyline.
Originally, RPG = Role Playing Game, meaning players took on the role of a character as in a book or film (roleplay ring a bell?) in real time with no pre-planned script. The *players* in RPGs are the ones playing the role, living out the story, with. That's where the story element associated with RPG came from. The player driven story, the story that evolves bvecause of the players actions.
So, the only part to imply story is actually implying that it's a player driven story. The fact that it's been bastardised over the years doesn't alter the initial meaning.
It's in the name: Role Playing Game. Players were given a world in which they played the role of characters, and the story unfolded around them as they adventured through it - it wasn't spoon fed to you in a series of cutscenes. Sure early Crpgs & Nintendo RPGs were limited technologically, and couldn't quite recreate the role playing game experience, but let's not pretend that those emulations of the experience are where the definition came from, because it's flat out wrong.
I never would have gotten into RPGs as a kid if it meant 'Shut up and let me dictate what happens to you every step of the way!' was the format those games were delivered in. That's only what you get when someone failing to deliver a role playing game experience resorts to emulating it stiffly, rather than the definition of RPG.
It was the blank slate and open world with no script for our characters that was enticing, if I wanted pre-planned stories I had books.
The issue being that your definition of RPG has never been what videogame RPGs are or were (they've been about story, characters, progression, and combat involving little or not twitch element.)
Early RPGs couldn't recreate tabletop a RP experience, but technically neither can modern ones. We're not at a point where DMs can easily create worlds and encounters instantly at a whim yet. (And the videogames which tried to accomplish this didn't exactly take off because of the feature, so the market isn't demanding it.)
(Although secretly modern technology has been able to nearly replicate tabletop RPing for quite a while. Just call up all your friends on your favorite VOIP program. Gets you everything about tabletop RPGs except in-person socialization. A lack of graphics is actually a critical part of emulating a tabletop RPG experience, so seeking that in video games is probably not ideal.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Yet another thread about the "sorry state" of current MMOs by a poster who wished that everyone who thinks differently than him should stay off his lawn.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
MMO-RPG without a story is just MMO! You are clearly interested in playing mmo, but not role playing. Some mmos will allow that some won't.
I think one of the problems is that a large portion of current players think that its Roll Playing (as in they roll for loot) instead of Role Playing..
I myself am not the best role player in the world (far from it) but even if your not a great role player. A player should feel free to have their ingame "avatar" in an online game make his place in the world for them (and not have to follow the same path as every other character of their race/class that came before)
MMO-RPG without a story is just MMO! You are clearly interested in playing mmo, but not role playing. Some mmos will allow that some won't.
I think one of the problems is that a large portion of current players think that its Roll Playing (as in they roll for loot) instead of Role Playing..
I myself am not the best role player in the world (far from it) but even if your not a great role player. A player should feel free to have their ingame "avatar" in an online game make his place in the world for them (and not have to follow the same path as every other character of their race/class that came before)
You are the one I choose as my only Padawan, oh, and you, and you , and yes OK you, please could all only Padawans please form a queue, shit we are going to have to phase these buggers there are too many only Padawans for the temple to hold, green doors, somebody get me green doors right now.
Originally posted by zymurgeist MMORPGs are about whatever the people who make them want them to be about. It can be about combat or stories or boobies. All are equally valid approaches.
I have a story about the time I had to combat epic boobies...
Stories... Epic stories (where *you* are the savior of the known lands) belong in single player games. Small, short stories are great, imho.
A couple of good story examples from WoW: 1) You helped a goblin build a robotic yeti. Then you went and scared some of her friends with it. 2) You helped an Ogre named Lunk get spider poison by having him ride the spiders on his belly.
Nothing epic. I didn't save the universe. But the stories had me laughing and... wait for it... Having Fun! Sure, there are plenty of lame stories, too.
I find stories often times make the game fun and gives my character reasons for doing what he is doing. I'm not the type of player that goes into a zone and kills everything on sight.
I remember when games let you write up your character's own backstory. Some still do...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
MMORPGs are about whatever the people who make them want them to be about. It can be about combat or stories or boobies. All are equally valid approaches.
I have a story about the time I had to combat epic boobies...
Stories...
Epic stories (where *you* are the savior of the known lands) belong in single player games. Small, short stories are great, imho.
A couple of good story examples from WoW:
1) You helped a goblin build a robotic yeti. Then you went and scared some of her friends with it.
2) You helped an Ogre named Lunk get spider poison by having him ride the spiders on his belly.
Nothing epic. I didn't save the universe. But the stories had me laughing and... wait for it... Having Fun! Sure, there are plenty of lame stories, too.
I find stories often times make the game fun and gives my character reasons for doing what he is doing. I'm not the type of player that goes into a zone and kills everything on sight.
I remember when games let you write up your character's own backstory. Some still do...
I enjoyed your post, although I feel like many of the moments that ive had in MMO's were in fact Epic.
But I understand what you mean, in a single player game, you the individual are responsible for taking down the big boss at the end of the game. And in co-op games you and your partner both take pride in doing the same.
Which is why it still makes no sense that modern MMOs (Again Massivley multiplayer), doesnt focus on having a large group of people taking epic adventures together. And yes I understand there is end game and PvP for that in games, but thats exactly my point, it shouldnt take until ENDGAME to start having epic MMO adventures, it should be right from the start.
But instead you just have corporate run companys who want tons of subs so they will just toss out a full single player game for the one time buy of their costumers and then give a nod to REAL MMO fans by giving you some end game raids.
Is anyone on the same page as me with this? Because its seems pretty logical to me, and I dont see why so many people cant grasp the concept that,
1. MMO's are about massive amounts of people playing together so single player elements should not be the main focus for 20 levels+ and even worse all the way through to endgame.
and
2. Its not like its a conspiracy theory that companys purposfully dumb down their games and make them single player oriented because they want more money and thats where the money is at. But thats not a respectable business practice because its abusing the core idea of what MMO's are and bastardizing it just to turn a profit. Now how is that "Freedom" like people describe when they defend single player elements? It sounds more like corporate greed to me.
it really was the back burner to game play, I dont know what this facination about mmorpgs and story is about, but mmorpgs were good when gameplay was good, not story, I did not play EQ for the story, I did not play UO for the story, I played them for the gameplay, I played them for the exploration, to overcome mighty creatures that in todays mmorpgs I can gather up 4-5 of them and solo them easily with any class. In UO, UO HAD NO STORY, it really didnt, what made UO great was the player base
the gameplay, the wars, players made their own stories not the devs. This whole facination with story is ruining todays mmorpgs, less focus on story, less focus on sparkly shiny things, and more focus on gameplay.
Now they are.
WOW is a MMORPG. TOR is a MMORPG. They are both about stories. I don't see a problem. Sure you don't like it. But others enjoy it.
I agree with the OP on most of what he says. MMORPGs use to be indepth gameplay designed for a mature audience.
Only thing is now MMORPGs are about one thing making businesses fast money. They game doesn't matter only the revenue it generates so MMORPGs are no long the games they once where so mass people can play and feel that they are gamers.
Those of us that are truly the gamers who look for more out of games are left in the dark with nothing to play.
Games with continue to de-evolve until we are back to just playing Dragon's Lair remakes that everyone will think are epic.
I agree with the OP on most of what he says. MMORPGs use to be indepth gameplay designed for a mature audience.
Yep... too bad most players took those "games designed for mature gameplay" and turned them into PK gank/grief-fests... couldn't even help but to grief even Lord British, himself.
The most story an MMO should ever have, in my opinion, is background lore to give context to player actions, and world events to motivate players and keep them interested.
Honestly, I find most quests and pre-scripted story in MMOs as very bland and generic. I'd much rather make my own character's stories as I find it far more enjoyable, and memorable. If you asked me for a memorable quest in an MMO that I geniuinely enjoyed, I honestly couldn't come up with one.
Wow -- just flabbergasted... I couldnt disagree with the OP more if I tried.
MMOs are a story that you can live in. Especially some of the older MMOs like Asheron's call had a world that unfolded and changed month to month. There is tons of lore in everquest. I even re-rolled for Kunark to have an iksar -- and with vellious was in a shadow guild named Gresh Maj which was aligned with the ring of scale unlike the standard iksar. If you looked for it there was a ton of depth in many of the old games lorewise. It formed the basis for a story that you took a part in.
I know role-play servers are kind of out of fashion these days -- but there are role-players and explorers and people out there who want to experience an actual world out there. And even people who really don't very often on a subconscious level appreciate there being a world and not just a black box thrown together to gain exp in.
Having a well designed world with a deep story with lots of parts you can discover if you look for it and a vast history that fits together and shapes where the world is while you are adventuring within it can be the difference between a game that flops and a game that flourishes.
I wouldn't say you HAVE to have story content to have an MMO, but just because UO and EQ didn't have it doesn't mean that later MMO's shouldn't.
I swear, sometimes it seems like the same people that demand innovation are the same ones that complain whenever anything changes.
I keep seeing people say that but can you go through the OP's post and find me a time where he demanded innovation?
Unless you can find any evidence then your comment is invalid in this particular topic. Dont water down the issue by bringing up something that has no proof or basis in the current arguement.
Also the OP is not saying that because UO and EQ didnt have stories that means ALL modern MMO's should be without a main linear story, hes saying we should at least have the option to play another type of MMO, one that isnt linear or storry based.
Your arguement would hold up if there were MMOs out there right now, mainstream, well crafted MMO's, that werent linear themepark,story driven, easy to level cap, new player friendly MMO's.
Which is the exact reason why people get up in arms, there are tons of companys who can make good MMO's they just cant because they are held by corporations. And its not just corps greed its the people too, but the fact you and everyone else ignore this blatently obvious part of society is what annoys me.
If people would just say, "Hey I like the idea of other people being able to play what they want" then maybe things could change, but instead we just have people who are in the majority and like themepark games who dont care if the sandbox or non-linear MMO crowd is getting any games because they have a flood of the games they like already on the market.
As ive said before people are missing the extremely simple and logical point to this arguement, its about choices and the lack there of we currently have.
I wouldn't say you HAVE to have story content to have an MMO, but just because UO and EQ didn't have it doesn't mean that later MMO's shouldn't.
I swear, sometimes it seems like the same people that demand innovation are the same ones that complain whenever anything changes.
I keep seeing people say that but can you go through the OP's post and find me a time where he demanded innovation?
Unless you can find any evidence then your comment is invalid in this particular topic. Dont water down the issue by bringing up something that has no proof or basis in the current arguement.
Also the OP is not saying that because UO and EQ didnt have stories that means ALL modern MMO's should be without a main linear story, hes saying we should at least have the option to play another type of MMO, one that isnt linear or storry based.
Your arguement would hold up if there were MMOs out there right now, mainstream, well crafted MMO's, that werent linear themepark,story driven, easy to level cap, new player friendly MMO's.
Which is the exact reason why people get up in arms, there are tons of companys who can make good MMO's they just cant because they are held by corporations. And its not just corps greed its the people too, but the fact you and everyone else ignore this blatently obvious part of society is what annoys me.
If people would just say, "Hey I like the idea of other people being able to play what they want" then maybe things could change, but instead we just have people who are in the majority and like themepark games who dont care if the sandbox or non-linear MMO crowd is getting any games because they have a flood of the games they like already on the market.
As ive said before people are missing the extremely simple and logical point to this arguement, its about choices and the lack there of we currently have.
Wow -- just flabbergasted... I couldnt disagree with the OP more if I tried.
MMOs are a story that you can live in. Especially some of the older MMOs like Asheron's call had a world that unfolded and changed month to month. There is tons of lore in everquest. I even re-rolled for Kunark to have an iksar -- and with vellious was in a shadow guild named Gresh Maj which was aligned with the ring of scale unlike the standard iksar. If you looked for it there was a ton of depth in many of the old games lorewise. It formed the basis for a story that you took a part in.
I know role-play servers are kind of out of fashion these days -- but there are role-players and explorers and people out there who want to experience an actual world out there. And even people who really don't very often on a subconscious level appreciate there being a world and not just a black box thrown together to gain exp in.
Having a well designed world with a deep story with lots of parts you can discover if you look for it and a vast history that fits together and shapes where the world is while you are adventuring within it can be the difference between a game that flops and a game that flourishes.
As pointed out earlier in this thread, lore is fantastic, lore you uncover as you explore the world makes an mmo. But a story on rails that is spoon fed to you sort of sucks, at least to me it does, but I am in the minority so rails it shall be.v
EQ is the most overrated game of all time. EQ is nothing but a themepark.
Camping spot 1 > grind tons of mobs > ding > ding > move to camping spot 2 > rinse and repeat. Throw in some dungeons and raids and you've got a full-fledged themepark MMO.
UO on the other side was unique. There is no second MMO like it. I always wondered why there's no UO-like MMOs. Is it because WoW decided to go the EQ route and when WoW was the most successful MMO of all time, everybody decided to foloow that formula.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I agree with the OP on most of what he says. MMORPGs use to be indepth gameplay designed for a mature audience.
Only thing is now MMORPGs are about one thing making businesses fast money. They game doesn't matter only the revenue it generates so MMORPGs are no long the games they once where so mass people can play and feel that they are gamers.
Those of us that are truly the gamers who look for more out of games are left in the dark with nothing to play.
Games with continue to de-evolve until we are back to just playing Dragon's Lair remakes that everyone will think are epic.
"Truly the gamers"? How arrogent.
What makes your $60 for a game more special than someone else's?
I agree with the OP on most of what he says. MMORPGs use to be indepth gameplay designed for a mature audience.
Only thing is now MMORPGs are about one thing making businesses fast money. They game doesn't matter only the revenue it generates so MMORPGs are no long the games they once where so mass people can play and feel that they are gamers.
Those of us that are truly the gamers who look for more out of games are left in the dark with nothing to play.
Games with continue to de-evolve until we are back to just playing Dragon's Lair remakes that everyone will think are epic.
"Truly the gamers"? How arrogent.
What makes your $60 for a game more special than someone else's?
I agree, anyone can be a gamer, you just have to enjoy games. What he should have said was Hardcore gamers who dont always PVP.
I consider myself a hardcore social/exploration gamer, In WoW i spent most of my time just talking to people, but eventually it just wasnt enough. I enjoy the dungeon crawling and adventuring aspect more than anything.
To me, the history of computer gaming of text adventures, crpgs, muds and mmorpgs was all driven by the early devs by the desire to play a computer version of dnd.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I don't see why you can't have both good story and good gameplay. I like to feel like what I'm doing in a game has some meaning in the context of story, but I also like to simply have fun playing too.
Comments
Final Fantasy XIV did the mix of story and gameplay very well.
Final Fantasy XIV did a VERY good back story but the gameplay didnt go as well, this time anyway )
MMO-RPG without a story is just MMO! You are clearly interested in playing mmo, but not role playing. Some mmos will allow that some won't.
Guild Wars 2 Youtube Croatian Maniacs
My Guild Wars titles
Story telling is the next evolution of Themepark MMORPGs, taking the genre further away from persistant, world sharing and more into instanced single, small multi-player experience.
I am starting to think that the original vision of persistant world where not everyone are the heroes but rather a citizen is more and more becoming distant. Only indy companies seem to care about it and most MMORPG gamers, which means WoW player or ex-WoW players, dont appreciate those kind of things so big budget producers wont either.
My gaming blog
Originally, RPG = Role Playing Game, meaning players took on the role of a character as in a book or film (roleplay ring a bell?) in real time with no pre-planned script. The *players* in RPGs are the ones playing the role, living out the story, with. That's where the story element associated with RPG came from. The player driven story, the story that evolves bvecause of the players actions.
So, the only part to imply story is actually implying that it's a player driven story. The fact that it's been bastardised over the years doesn't alter the initial meaning.
It's in the name: Role Playing Game. Players were given a world in which they played the role of characters, and the story unfolded around them as they adventured through it - it wasn't spoon fed to you in a series of cutscenes. Sure early Crpgs & Nintendo RPGs were limited technologically, and couldn't quite recreate the role playing game experience, but let's not pretend that those emulations of the experience are where the definition came from, because it's flat out wrong.
I never would have gotten into RPGs as a kid if it meant 'Shut up and let me dictate what happens to you every step of the way!' was the format those games were delivered in. That's only what you get when someone failing to deliver a role playing game experience resorts to emulating it stiffly, rather than the definition of RPG.
It was the blank slate and open world with no script for our characters that was enticing, if I wanted pre-planned stories I had books.
RPGs are about being forced down a story line? Sorry but I strongly disagree about this. Bioware RPGs are like that but RPGs can be open world as well, just look at Skyrim. You can roleplay just fine without being forced down a dev created storyline.
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The issue being that your definition of RPG has never been what videogame RPGs are or were (they've been about story, characters, progression, and combat involving little or not twitch element.)
Early RPGs couldn't recreate tabletop a RP experience, but technically neither can modern ones. We're not at a point where DMs can easily create worlds and encounters instantly at a whim yet. (And the videogames which tried to accomplish this didn't exactly take off because of the feature, so the market isn't demanding it.)
(Although secretly modern technology has been able to nearly replicate tabletop RPing for quite a while. Just call up all your friends on your favorite VOIP program. Gets you everything about tabletop RPGs except in-person socialization. A lack of graphics is actually a critical part of emulating a tabletop RPG experience, so seeking that in video games is probably not ideal.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Yet another thread about the "sorry state" of current MMOs by a poster who wished that everyone who thinks differently than him should stay off his lawn.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
I think one of the problems is that a large portion of current players think that its Roll Playing (as in they roll for loot) instead of Role Playing..
I myself am not the best role player in the world (far from it) but even if your not a great role player. A player should feel free to have their ingame "avatar" in an online game make his place in the world for them (and not have to follow the same path as every other character of their race/class that came before)
I think one of the problems is that a large portion of current players think that its Roll Playing (as in they roll for loot) instead of Role Playing..
I myself am not the best role player in the world (far from it) but even if your not a great role player. A player should feel free to have their ingame "avatar" in an online game make his place in the world for them (and not have to follow the same path as every other character of their race/class that came before)
You are the one I choose as my only Padawan, oh, and you, and you , and yes OK you, please could all only Padawans please form a queue, shit we are going to have to phase these buggers there are too many only Padawans for the temple to hold, green doors, somebody get me green doors right now.Stories...
Epic stories (where *you* are the savior of the known lands) belong in single player games. Small, short stories are great, imho.
A couple of good story examples from WoW:
1) You helped a goblin build a robotic yeti. Then you went and scared some of her friends with it.
2) You helped an Ogre named Lunk get spider poison by having him ride the spiders on his belly.
Nothing epic. I didn't save the universe. But the stories had me laughing and... wait for it... Having Fun! Sure, there are plenty of lame stories, too.
I find stories often times make the game fun and gives my character reasons for doing what he is doing. I'm not the type of player that goes into a zone and kills everything on sight.
I remember when games let you write up your character's own backstory. Some still do...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I enjoyed your post, although I feel like many of the moments that ive had in MMO's were in fact Epic.
But I understand what you mean, in a single player game, you the individual are responsible for taking down the big boss at the end of the game. And in co-op games you and your partner both take pride in doing the same.
Which is why it still makes no sense that modern MMOs (Again Massivley multiplayer), doesnt focus on having a large group of people taking epic adventures together. And yes I understand there is end game and PvP for that in games, but thats exactly my point, it shouldnt take until ENDGAME to start having epic MMO adventures, it should be right from the start.
But instead you just have corporate run companys who want tons of subs so they will just toss out a full single player game for the one time buy of their costumers and then give a nod to REAL MMO fans by giving you some end game raids.
Is anyone on the same page as me with this? Because its seems pretty logical to me, and I dont see why so many people cant grasp the concept that,
1. MMO's are about massive amounts of people playing together so single player elements should not be the main focus for 20 levels+ and even worse all the way through to endgame.
and
2. Its not like its a conspiracy theory that companys purposfully dumb down their games and make them single player oriented because they want more money and thats where the money is at. But thats not a respectable business practice because its abusing the core idea of what MMO's are and bastardizing it just to turn a profit. Now how is that "Freedom" like people describe when they defend single player elements? It sounds more like corporate greed to me.
Now they are.
WOW is a MMORPG. TOR is a MMORPG. They are both about stories. I don't see a problem. Sure you don't like it. But others enjoy it.
I agree with the OP on most of what he says. MMORPGs use to be indepth gameplay designed for a mature audience.
Only thing is now MMORPGs are about one thing making businesses fast money. They game doesn't matter only the revenue it generates so MMORPGs are no long the games they once where so mass people can play and feel that they are gamers.
Those of us that are truly the gamers who look for more out of games are left in the dark with nothing to play.
Games with continue to de-evolve until we are back to just playing Dragon's Lair remakes that everyone will think are epic.
I wouldn't say you HAVE to have story content to have an MMO, but just because UO and EQ didn't have it doesn't mean that later MMO's shouldn't.
I swear, sometimes it seems like the same people that demand innovation are the same ones that complain whenever anything changes.
Yep... too bad most players took those "games designed for mature gameplay" and turned them into PK gank/grief-fests... couldn't even help but to grief even Lord British, himself.
The most story an MMO should ever have, in my opinion, is background lore to give context to player actions, and world events to motivate players and keep them interested.
Honestly, I find most quests and pre-scripted story in MMOs as very bland and generic. I'd much rather make my own character's stories as I find it far more enjoyable, and memorable. If you asked me for a memorable quest in an MMO that I geniuinely enjoyed, I honestly couldn't come up with one.
Wow -- just flabbergasted... I couldnt disagree with the OP more if I tried.
MMOs are a story that you can live in. Especially some of the older MMOs like Asheron's call had a world that unfolded and changed month to month. There is tons of lore in everquest. I even re-rolled for Kunark to have an iksar -- and with vellious was in a shadow guild named Gresh Maj which was aligned with the ring of scale unlike the standard iksar. If you looked for it there was a ton of depth in many of the old games lorewise. It formed the basis for a story that you took a part in.
I know role-play servers are kind of out of fashion these days -- but there are role-players and explorers and people out there who want to experience an actual world out there. And even people who really don't very often on a subconscious level appreciate there being a world and not just a black box thrown together to gain exp in.
Having a well designed world with a deep story with lots of parts you can discover if you look for it and a vast history that fits together and shapes where the world is while you are adventuring within it can be the difference between a game that flops and a game that flourishes.
I keep seeing people say that but can you go through the OP's post and find me a time where he demanded innovation?
Unless you can find any evidence then your comment is invalid in this particular topic. Dont water down the issue by bringing up something that has no proof or basis in the current arguement.
Also the OP is not saying that because UO and EQ didnt have stories that means ALL modern MMO's should be without a main linear story, hes saying we should at least have the option to play another type of MMO, one that isnt linear or storry based.
Your arguement would hold up if there were MMOs out there right now, mainstream, well crafted MMO's, that werent linear themepark,story driven, easy to level cap, new player friendly MMO's.
Which is the exact reason why people get up in arms, there are tons of companys who can make good MMO's they just cant because they are held by corporations. And its not just corps greed its the people too, but the fact you and everyone else ignore this blatently obvious part of society is what annoys me.
If people would just say, "Hey I like the idea of other people being able to play what they want" then maybe things could change, but instead we just have people who are in the majority and like themepark games who dont care if the sandbox or non-linear MMO crowd is getting any games because they have a flood of the games they like already on the market.
As ive said before people are missing the extremely simple and logical point to this arguement, its about choices and the lack there of we currently have.
I keep seeing people say that but can you go through the OP's post and find me a time where he demanded innovation?
Unless you can find any evidence then your comment is invalid in this particular topic. Dont water down the issue by bringing up something that has no proof or basis in the current arguement.
Also the OP is not saying that because UO and EQ didnt have stories that means ALL modern MMO's should be without a main linear story, hes saying we should at least have the option to play another type of MMO, one that isnt linear or storry based.
Your arguement would hold up if there were MMOs out there right now, mainstream, well crafted MMO's, that werent linear themepark,story driven, easy to level cap, new player friendly MMO's.
Which is the exact reason why people get up in arms, there are tons of companys who can make good MMO's they just cant because they are held by corporations. And its not just corps greed its the people too, but the fact you and everyone else ignore this blatently obvious part of society is what annoys me.
If people would just say, "Hey I like the idea of other people being able to play what they want" then maybe things could change, but instead we just have people who are in the majority and like themepark games who dont care if the sandbox or non-linear MMO crowd is getting any games because they have a flood of the games they like already on the market.
As ive said before people are missing the extremely simple and logical point to this arguement, its about choices and the lack there of we currently have.
As pointed out earlier in this thread, lore is fantastic, lore you uncover as you explore the world makes an mmo. But a story on rails that is spoon fed to you sort of sucks, at least to me it does, but I am in the minority so rails it shall be.v
EQ is the most overrated game of all time. EQ is nothing but a themepark.
Camping spot 1 > grind tons of mobs > ding > ding > move to camping spot 2 > rinse and repeat. Throw in some dungeons and raids and you've got a full-fledged themepark MMO.
UO on the other side was unique. There is no second MMO like it. I always wondered why there's no UO-like MMOs. Is it because WoW decided to go the EQ route and when WoW was the most successful MMO of all time, everybody decided to foloow that formula.
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"Truly the gamers"? How arrogent.
What makes your $60 for a game more special than someone else's?
I agree, anyone can be a gamer, you just have to enjoy games. What he should have said was Hardcore gamers who dont always PVP.
I consider myself a hardcore social/exploration gamer, In WoW i spent most of my time just talking to people, but eventually it just wasnt enough. I enjoy the dungeon crawling and adventuring aspect more than anything.
To me, the history of computer gaming of text adventures, crpgs, muds and mmorpgs was all driven by the early devs by the desire to play a computer version of dnd.
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I don't see why you can't have both good story and good gameplay. I like to feel like what I'm doing in a game has some meaning in the context of story, but I also like to simply have fun playing too.