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Why there is so much negativity about SWTOR
Creslin321
Member Posts: 5,359
Man...this game is controversial. I don't think I can remember another game where the forums were STILL hopping with "this game is awesome" vs. "this game is the spawn of El Diablo!" threads almost three months after release.
The craziest thing is that this game really isn't all that bad. I mean, there are games that fall into the category of the truly terrible like Stronghold 3 or the new Duke Nukem. But then there are games that are just...okay. Not particularly good, and not particulary bad just...okay. SWTOR surely falls into the latter category. For an MMORPG it is relatively polished and offers a fairly complete experience from day 1.
Crazier still though, even realizing this, I am definitely in the group of people that are negative about SWTOR. So, in an effort to clear up some of the misunderstandings and arguments constantly swarming around this game, I wanted to provide you with why I, personally, feel the way I do. Because I really believe that many others share my viewpoints, but it doesn't always come across that way.
My feelings toward SWTOR have absolutely nothing to do with the money I spent on it. I have spent money on much crappier things and not complained. My feelings stem from the fact that I really, genuinely care about my MMORPG hobby, and I feel like SWTOR is just dragging it further down a terrible direction.
First, You see, if you look at the progression of the "themepark" MMO sub-genre from EQ to early WoW to late WoW and now to SWTOR, you will notice something. Each iteration became more about single player.
EQ was all about playing with other people, maybe even too far in this direction, at least where some classes were concerned. In early WoW you could group, but soloing was much more viable and even preferable due to the quest system. Late WoW, there is so much phasing that grouping isn't much of an option when doing quests, and most of the grouping is done through automated matchmaking tools like dungeon finder. Finally, SWTOR takes the "single player" thing to an even greater extreme by heavily sharding all their zones, putting instances everywhere, and putting a laser focus on a scripted "story" that (I think) encourages single player...not to mention making a supposedly major part of the SW universe (space) into a single player minigame.
Second, SWTOR is extremely derivative of WoW. I mean, maybe even moreso than games like Rift and WAR. And once again, I'm tired of games just rehashing old concepts. I want a game that at least tries to do something new. If SWTOR came out and was still "just okay" but tried a lot of new concepts...then I don't think it would have got nearly as much negativity.
Third, SWTOR is one of the most linear games I have ever played. You hardly have any freedom in where you go when you level, and it just feels like you are being dragged on a leash the whole time. I get that they had to make a lot of story for each faction and each class...but the end result is that playing through any one class feels extremely linear.
Finally...all this said, I know these are just my opinions, and I know that SWTOR, taken for what it is, is not a terrible game. If you are enjoying TOR, then great...keep having fun. I don't want SWTOR to completely fail and go F2P...but I DO want it to at least decrease in subs to the point of say, Rift. Because if SWTOR is a shining success then what does that tell the industry? They can keep making derivative, highly single-player, linear MMORPGs, and we will buy them up. And if you don't believe that the success of a game has an impact on the industry, please look at exhibit A:
Everquest, AO, DAoC -> WoW -> AoC, WAR, Rift, Allods, SWTOR, ...
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Comments
Seriously?
The reason is because it is Star Wars something with a zillion hardcore fans, most of who were totally disappointed and let down by pretty much every part of what should have been the most epic game we have ever played.
You can't do Star Wars, half-assed and not expect this reaction.
I'm not one to ever want to see companies fail, but I must say...there was one comment that an employee of bio-ware made that really urked me to the point that I'd love to see her face as the game dies. Was at a convention with other co-workers of gamestop when Bioware came to discuss SWTOR. A lady was speaking in NYC and then asked for questions. A guy stood up and asked, "I haven't seen anything with player bounties, that was my favorite thing in SWG and I was hoping to see it in SWTOR, is there any chance SWTOR will have player bounties?" A fair question I felt, but her response was, "Well, and look where SWG is right now, next question." I thought wow, what a cocky wench. I mean, you are going to knock one of the most enjoyed and talked about games that lasted for YEARS. Dispite some of the later changes that people didn't like, the game was still one of the most successful classics ever. Certain games everyone knows of and SWG was one of them. I thought to myself, if you went to the CEO of Bioware and said, "upon launch of SWTOR I can guarentee you the exact success that SWG had for a lifetime," he'd be extatic.
So...I know one person shouldn't base my opinion on a company, but...you shouldn't have a spokesperson that is going to tlak out of her ass either.
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
For the rest, I think it's all about expectations: strio all bias aside and dislikes for themepark MMO gameplay etc, and SWTOR ranks among the better themepark MMORPG's with its own good and bad points. It's ok. However, people expected something spectacular with the Bioware-Star Wars-big budget combination or to some after they themselves had a good time in SWG. From that point of view SWTOR how it turned out could only disappoint to them.
I also disagree with the whole idea that some have that some games need to fail in order for other games, the kind they like, to be successful. I blame it on WoW that some MMO gamers have developed that kind of warped looking at things. Personally I think that several very different types of MMO's can be very successful next to eachother, and I hope that after this year is done, this point will be proven.
With all due respect, the reason is because the game is, objectively, bad. Objectively, the bad can be measured in numerous ways: the PvP system is broken (they've had to scrap it and start from square one); its high res textures are still not available in game; the world is static and lacks ambiance - it was ultimately rushed together; where the majority of the money was spent on telling a linear story (a device that doesn't work well in what is supposed to be an open world) and the minority of it was spent on design or game mechanics.
People are negative about the game because the final product did not match what was advertised. People feel, and rightfully so, mislead.
Re: SWTOR
"Remember, remember - Kakk says 'December.'"
The game is an interactive movie, not a game. The combat, character development and GAME part of it has been entirely neglected.
This "game" deserves to fail, because it's not a game, but one of those old interactive movies on SEGA-CD/PC CD-ROM. What makes it all so bad though is that they want a premium price for it too.
No, this game IS bad, because it's not a game.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
I personally don't get caught up in the IP part of the game. I think the game is getting the flack because it just bad on so many fronts; straight up and down. None of us are getting paid by Bioware on these forums (Supposedly), so there's no need to pander to public opinion.
This however has been a rather large debate over this game. Giving Superman 64 a run for the title..
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
STO did companions before SWTOR, and I think STO does it better too
You get Bridge Officers which help you on your ship, and join you on away missions, and then you get Duty Officers which you send off on Missions, getting you XP and stuff.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Well, if we rewind the Way-Back Machine, back to say, 5 or 6 months before the game's launch, you saw articles and forum threads declaring that TOR would "THE Shit". Nothing would be able to touch it. It would be the WoW-killer. It would be THE game to redefine the MMORPG genre. If TOR didn't succeed big time (on a WoW-like scale), the genre was dead because there was nothing else out there that could touch it.
I remember seeing articles that were almost nauseating with how they extolled TOR as being the game that would render all others irrelevant.
I remember reading interviews with Bioware folks where they declared that they would change people's expectations of what MMORPG is supposed to be and how it's supposed to be experienced, and so on.
Then the game launched, the honeymoon phase passed over and people were left with the TOR that was actually released which, of course, only barely resembled the TOR the media, Bioware and fans hyped it up to be.
Predictably, as always happens in these situations, those who were the most vocal about how TOR would be ground-breaking, unprecedented and genre-changing suddenly backpedaled and changed their tact. They went from saying "TOR is going to be revolutionary, rendering all other games irrelevant" to "TOR was never supposed to be revolutionary. It's not BioWare's fault that people got their hopes up too high". Only it is, because BioWare's PR machine was one of the main culprits in making the bold declarations they made, getting people's hopes up as high as they did.
So, why is there so much "hate" on TOR? I'd say it's because of what BW promised and what BW delivered were two very different things.
This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who's been there for the build up and then launch of a highly anticipated game. It just makes you wonder why so many keep falling for it over and over again.
Meh. If you take that point of view then there's basically nothing new at all even in the upcoming MMO's, since everything has been done already one way or the other in some form. Companions as they are in SWTOR, integrated into questing, crafting and combat including the liking system, nope, hasn't been done like that in MMO's before.I haven't seen much negativity lately but maybe I'm not looking hard enough. I think a lot of the hate has been moved over to ME3.
I don't blame blizzard for wow, they did bring something new to the genre, exposing more player to mmo and as a company make their products very profitable. I blame the developers that come after it, for trying to imitate wow half-ass and making it worst and worst, and tor, impo, have drag it to the ground.
do I wish tor fail till it goes f2p? Nope, but I hope it will only remains just profitable enough, around 500k subs, don't wish to see another company goes down the drain and lost jobs like mythic.
this genre needs a company to come out and make something different that players enjoy, if not future games will still be the same.
RIP Orc Choppa
Most of us have been talking about the many issues with this game for months now. For some of us, the writing was on the wall over a year ago when the hype machine started ramping up from their marketing department.
The trick is in listening to what these developers *don't* say when they are hyping up their game. Basically in the case of TOR, the story element was being pushed, and there really wasn't much else being said about anything new in the gameplay. Nothing really new about combat, or questing, or PvP, or crafting. Little or no information about social features or exploration, etc. They were using language about WoW being a "touchstone" that can't be ignored and basically admitting that WoW people would make an easy transition to TOR. Early screenshots showed massive evidence of linear maps that keep you confined, much like I felt in Age of Conan at launch with its invisible walls, and impassable mountains and other problems.
Mostly, I knew there was a problem when they weren't talking about how fresh the gameplay would be. Every week it was the same thing "Story, Story, Story". If you were to go back into my posts from a year+ ago, maybe even as far back as 2-3 years ago, you would see that I basically had the game pegged based on Bioware's marketing machine. The game was shaping up to be the ultimate expression of the WoW-era themepark design mindset, and I did not see this as a good thing. I knew it would be highly controlled, force feeding us a game experience and story that really isn't our own. This is not an MMORPG in my mind.
Contrast that with the information ANet has given us about Guild Wars 2 as an example. They started off with a design manifesto that gave them the freedom to turn modern MMO design on its ear and change everything. GW2 appears to be a giant leap forward at just the right time. A great mix of tons of completely new ideas and updated foundational MMO elements. This at a time when most MMO vets, even those who have only been on the scene since WoW, are ready for something different and innovative. We won't know if it delivers until we get our hands on it and spend a good month playing it, but so far ANet is saying all the right things, and they are shaking the old ideas up enough to get everyone excited.
Bioware's timing was off for sure. As has been said by many here, this game would have done much better about four years ago, but now it's just seems old, especially when contrasted by games coming down the road soon.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
You hit the nail on the head there.
SW:TOR is mostly just more of the same themepark affair, but with an epic story plastered all over it. What's great is that the story got a lot of people invested in their characters and in the world, however the story comes to a screeching halt as players reach level cap. It is there where a lot of players really notice where the game is lacking, either in features or just innovative ideas. Others who could care less about the story noticed much earlier. People are just getting tired of playing the same game over and over...
Cres that is fine and dandy to have an opinion. As you showed, there are several major issues to you.
What I have an issue with is folks breaking the TOS on this site, and continually posting those reasons. The concerted effort to spread negativity is, quite frankly, childish. The TOR forum is pretty much dedicated to the so called "forum PVP", and if this shit was happening in the EVE or AA forums, folks would be losing their freaking minds.
Like you said....you hope TOR drops immensely. Which is the difference between me n you. I dont feel the need to hope other games crash n burn. When it comes down to it, just cause I dont like something, I dont feel it gives me the right to wish problems for someone else.
To each their own I guess. Good write up to explain your feelings just the same.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
This website is about discussing MMOs, worts and all. We don't come here to blow sunshine up the developer's arses when it is underserved. If you don't want to read people's negative opinions, and you believe everyone is on some sort of vendetta, then perhaps MMO forums are not the right place for you to spend time.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
What I like about STOs companions is that you can customise them to your liking and rename them. It is great when you get your companion in SWTOR, but then you see other people running around with a Trandoshan called Qyzen Fess. Another thing I like about STO companions is that they can revive and heal you and your other companions, even another players companions will come and revive you too - pretty cool, and you can have several out at one time instead of just one - makes for more variety and strategy
As for the crafting I would rather do it myself, and SWG had it with factories, but more even more closer Phantasy Star Universe did that first with companions crafting for you.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
I haven't played SWTOR, but from looking at the game design decisions, I get the impression that even if everything went right (no lag, no bugs, excellent play balance, etc.), the game would only be kind of all right. There's just no upside potential.
I can be sympathetic to games that try to do something great and fail. But when you're trying for mediocrity from the start, even if you achieve it, what does that accomplish?
I think much of the negativity comes from people annoyed that the game is getting shoved in their face so much. If IGG or Aeria launch a game that is genuinely awful, but all you hear about it is a few ads that you ignore, then you don't particularly care that they released an awful game. But when SWTOR is constantly hyped as the greatest thing since sliced bread, including from gaming web sites that ought to know better, that provokes more of a reaction.
So much negativity. Almost reads to me like all off you posters had lost your entire wealth or life on this game, like the devolopers and artists who did. I am a collector edition preoreder subscriber who waited for years in anticipation. If the game turns horribly sour however, I would still leave and uninstall in a minute. Same held true for the previous titles I have played. They scored on some points, and failed on some. It happens and patches give them oppertunity to correct some. Even when it's patched to hell a year form now, it still won't appeal to all the ornery mmo masses. Keep looking then. For myself untill something better comes around, I'll be portaying my badass trooper, fragging peoples faces.
Closed Beta tester for WAR.CO.FE.DCUO.SWTOR
it hardly takes your life or wealth to post your personal opinion about the game. maybe 30 secs. and everyone is entitled to their opinions either negative or positive, ofc always you hurt some other player or reader feelings but thats how it is.
Uh huh. People are clearing running out of troll material if this is what we're turning to now.
lol Companions aka SWTORS replacement group system.... Why group with other players when u can reply on your companions... Seriously the first guy had this game pegged when he called it single player... Im so sick of all these new games coming out were everything is a trail of quests. I play mmos to group up and game together... What sickens me is that its so acceptable these days. People avoid grouping up because there to busy questing... Need help with a quest? Yea good luck trying to find someone to come back to the content area your at to help you.... Why not have 100 quests in a game that are meaningful... And have everything group based like eq1 was? Sure u can call it a grinding MMO but thats when gear actually meant somthing. I dunno anymore i was dissapointed by SWTOR like everyone else thinking its a sub game its gotta be better than F2P games but damn they couldnt even implement the concept of having grouped content.... O and one last thing u would be suprised how many level 50 ppl i grouped with that didnt even know how to play there class in a group/raid envirnment... Also found it funny to how they turned there nose up to a dungeon finder like most other mmos implemented, while i somewhat agree there not good for community building they would have made it easier to access content that a ton of people skipped.
I don't hate the game or the developers but I despise their marketing of this game. I subscribed to swtor forum in 2008 as SW fan eagerly anticipating the release of the game. Heh I couldn't even purchase the game from origin because I am not in the "right" European country.
They promised:
sandbox elements - I have not played more linear game
no kill 10 rats quests - nearly all of quests are like that
heroic combat - at the time I was not sure what was this about then I saw what they meant: ability delay
etc. etc.
At the end the thing that pushed me over the edge was the bribe with a founder title for people that purchased the game which was given exactly at the end of the first month subscription (guess why?). I dont wanna even mention the non working unsubscribe button - only accidentally the same thing happened in Warhammer Online.
There are more things that I can add but I don't want to waste my time not even for criticizing the approach that BW or EA has taken towards marketing.
If they advertised this game more honestly I would be still playing it... maybe.
Indeed, people might be, but I certainly haven't after having actually gotten to lay my hands on the game itself. From your response, I'm guessing you belong to that very set of people.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
I don't think the OP or anyone else on the anti-tor parade have to worry about it becoming an overwhelming success. It is fairly obvious that it wouldn't be, it isn't now, and the design and audience they chose isn't going to help them much in the future.
I'm still playing TOR occasionally and do enjoy it at times. Though, it is hard to replay the same game repeatly just like it is for a linear SP game.
Ah the negativity... where do you start? There is just too much to talk about with MMOs that it just never ends.