A game that was 100% players with no npcs, no mobs, etc. would be a disaster.
It'd have to have very in depth and detailed/complex construction of things like buildings, tools, etc.
which means it'd eventually end up just like Second Life.
If the only way to progress in combat skills was to fight with other players (because there are no mobs/npcs) it would quickly devolve into kill trading first, and then rampant ganking/griefing.
Interesting reply..but would you consider Planetside 2 (or the first one), or lets say World War II Online, as being a Rampant ganking/griefing game?
LOL! ... it would just be a PvP oriented MMO..like thsoe where you still progress but PvP combat is the way to progress.
But maybe you never played these games that is why your reply is one dimensional.
- Duke Suraknar - Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
I am ok with player made content, but I think the next big thing is going to be an AI that is more human, that can create this type of content, dungeons, quests, and such, and make them unique to where they come and go....Aiding in the exploration and large open world....I think a VERY good AI, that would need to be aided by humans I am sure till they got it working at the level I am talking about is the ultimate MMO thing imo.
I dont think so. They have made chess AI really good but people still mostly prefer to play against other people. There is an element of unpredictability and emotion in that which cannot be emulated by a computer. Unless you can somehow code emotions and sneakiness into an AI.
I don't think your getting the whole idea, as I said I was fine with players having the ability, but if you are playing an MMO, what happens if your sitting around waiting on someone to make that 'new' content for you? Where as if you have the AI also doing it, it can make you quests, dungeons, encounters and such, and make them unique....IT can create the events in a open world, and not even at your asking....Spawn dungeons, land events, and quests in towns to go along with stuff, but just like in real life, they are out there to be found, so you don't even need to go find quest guys....You can explore and stumble across the dungeon, person kidnapped quest or whatever, bandit camps...And when they are defeated, they are gone, no doing the same thing over and over....You can expand that into PvP/Guild vs Guild/Realm vs Realm type of things too, where the AI could make alliances with human counterparts, sense weaknesses, create or take kingdoms...
So I am not saying you can't have the one, but the system I am talking about would be a fluid open world, that doesn't NEED someone to do these things, now sure, you could have a land set aside for players to make their content or such, but the AI I am talking about would run the whole world, their would be no or few set dungeons, quests and such...You would never know what was in a dungeon you happen upon, could have traps, different stuff in it, it would be new and fresh, not, hey when we get here, you do this, this is going to happen, do this then...It could make bosses with mechanics, and people could always program more and more variable into the database for the AI to draw unique stuff from.
Instead of levelling quests, and using npc vendors to buy and sell stuff,
what about a mmo game were the players create the action, the quests, the buying and selling etc etc ?
What if there was no AI or npcs in game, but instead everything was player based, even the mobs to be killed ?
Could you do some sort of action that allows you to be a mob (pig wolve, etc) for a set amount of time and if you complete the player given quest to stay alive for say 1 minute, then you get xp ?
Just an idea , sounds quite fun i think.
Player-owned nullsec in Eve Online has most of that, as well as corps who set up permanent bases in wormhole space. However, despite what you say above you do need NPCs of some kind in any MMO for some sort of initial income at the very least.
If you're talking more along the lines of no NPC quest-givers, you would need a fully player-driven economy even more complex than Eve Online's and a constant healthy supply of old veteran players with enough industrial resource demands that they would have to "hire" new players to extract the required base resources from mining, NPCs, etc...that level of inter-player dependancy can be quite daunting to implement. Eve Online is the only game I know of that has a player economy at that level. And in a way the Eve vets do have "new hire requisitions" of an indirect sort through the market buy orders. A new player could easily decide for themselves to look at the current market orders for various things, pick something, figure out how to get it through mining/missioning/etc, go get it and sell it.
That game was called Everquest, oddly enough. There were quests in the game but they were long, drawn out things (you know like actual quests in real life).
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
I think we are starting to finally think outside the box. To the OP, aye it is a good idea. To the poster who said it would be a 100% failure as we need ai mobs to be punching bags, then how about this. Forget standard type classes, and usual mmorpg type of game, which i think we are all getting bored of. What if instead of normal classes, you had, and this is just an idea i'm winging, we had a whole new type of character. Depending on your class, you begin the game with basic 'mob runes'. They are used to protect you, you can launch them any time. The 'death mage' begins with weak, undead type runes. They would be lke skeletons, zombies, etc. Once invoked they are the mobs, the 'punchbags'. Instead of traditional loot, you would acquire stuff like runes, rune improvers (to boost your runes), pre generated quest launchers (which you add the specifics. You would have control of the quest, but they'd be pre-scripted, as in the programmer sense, so not hard to implement) these are offered to other players, who would receive a reward for completing, and returning to you. He could receive more powerful mob runes, depending on the difficulty of quest, you would receive tokens. Tokens are a sort of player currency. Gather enough to offer a player tribe (like a guild, but they have conquered an area of land). Tokens are also used to obtain craft materials (for example herbs for the gardener, that using them to make runes, like named mobs). Tokens can be used by tribes to allow them to make their domains more powerful. This would have the added benefit of not only creating a player friendly community, but you would get to know the people that came to you for quests and vice versa. Mobs are created by use of runes. Depending on how strong your character is, the more control you would have over the mobs. Unleash some guardian mob runes to protect your housing. Being pursued by an assasain, use mob runes which you can use cash (the game still has gold,etc. Tokens are not traditional currency, but a way of adding scripted objects into game, as well as much more), use gold to pay a certain type of player to put a character's name on various mob discs. So when an enemey begins a quest, by getting someone to slay you, you can pay a soothsayer (another type of craft type, which replaces the need for npc's) to discover foes. Therefore. You pay to add the name of one of your enemy on of your prized mob runes. It creates a creature called the predator, who now goes after that pc. Another tactic, if being hunted, is to activate various runes. Depending on your class and power, you may be even to issue a command that states 'attack only my enemies'. Okay, so this is just a few ideas of a game. But it proves that the OP's idea is viable, and it is the bare bones of an mmorpg i'd like to play.
Instead of levelling quests, and using npc vendors to buy and sell stuff,
what about a mmo game were the players create the action, the quests, the buying and selling etc etc ?
What if there was no AI or npcs in game, but instead everything was player based, even the mobs to be killed ?
Could you do some sort of action that allows you to be a mob (pig wolve, etc) for a set amount of time and if you complete the player given quest to stay alive for say 1 minute, then you get xp ?
Just an idea , sounds quite fun i think.
there are games like that, well maybe a few quests for the first hour or two to teach how to play and vendors that have starter equipment then away you go.
Comments
It is called Xsyon but the game is a fail not enough interest.
Interesting reply..but would you consider Planetside 2 (or the first one), or lets say World War II Online, as being a Rampant ganking/griefing game?
LOL! ... it would just be a PvP oriented MMO..like thsoe where you still progress but PvP combat is the way to progress.
But maybe you never played these games that is why your reply is one dimensional.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
I don't think your getting the whole idea, as I said I was fine with players having the ability, but if you are playing an MMO, what happens if your sitting around waiting on someone to make that 'new' content for you? Where as if you have the AI also doing it, it can make you quests, dungeons, encounters and such, and make them unique....IT can create the events in a open world, and not even at your asking....Spawn dungeons, land events, and quests in towns to go along with stuff, but just like in real life, they are out there to be found, so you don't even need to go find quest guys....You can explore and stumble across the dungeon, person kidnapped quest or whatever, bandit camps...And when they are defeated, they are gone, no doing the same thing over and over....You can expand that into PvP/Guild vs Guild/Realm vs Realm type of things too, where the AI could make alliances with human counterparts, sense weaknesses, create or take kingdoms...
So I am not saying you can't have the one, but the system I am talking about would be a fluid open world, that doesn't NEED someone to do these things, now sure, you could have a land set aside for players to make their content or such, but the AI I am talking about would run the whole world, their would be no or few set dungeons, quests and such...You would never know what was in a dungeon you happen upon, could have traps, different stuff in it, it would be new and fresh, not, hey when we get here, you do this, this is going to happen, do this then...It could make bosses with mechanics, and people could always program more and more variable into the database for the AI to draw unique stuff from.
Player-owned nullsec in Eve Online has most of that, as well as corps who set up permanent bases in wormhole space. However, despite what you say above you do need NPCs of some kind in any MMO for some sort of initial income at the very least.
If you're talking more along the lines of no NPC quest-givers, you would need a fully player-driven economy even more complex than Eve Online's and a constant healthy supply of old veteran players with enough industrial resource demands that they would have to "hire" new players to extract the required base resources from mining, NPCs, etc...that level of inter-player dependancy can be quite daunting to implement. Eve Online is the only game I know of that has a player economy at that level. And in a way the Eve vets do have "new hire requisitions" of an indirect sort through the market buy orders. A new player could easily decide for themselves to look at the current market orders for various things, pick something, figure out how to get it through mining/missioning/etc, go get it and sell it.
Where's the any key?
That game was called Everquest, oddly enough. There were quests in the game but they were long, drawn out things (you know like actual quests in real life).
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
there are games like that, well maybe a few quests for the first hour or two to teach how to play and vendors that have starter equipment then away you go.
I mean thats many sandboxes really.
Mortal Online is like this.
new people complain that they have no idea what to do, and experienced players complain there is nothing to do. people like to be spoon fed.