I dont see why maps showing where a quest objective is so u dont have to spend 3 hrs finding it is a bad thing, I also dont see why adding ui's that are easy to use and having games that dont take a degree in computer science to play is bad.
Just because games got rid of needless tedium doesnt mean they made them way easy.
People seem to equate a game that has mind numbing grind to just find a quest area or a harsh dp as proof a game is smater and takes a smarter player base when in fact is just proves that some players want mindless crap to do
Truth is alot of the convienence's of modern mmo's was a necessary step. Not so mentally handicapped players could play as this posts first thread insinuates but so that people who have jobs and cant spend 3 hrs finding the spot to kill 10 rabits for there gizzards can atually play games.
I've only read portions of this thread over the past several days that it has been going, but I was wondering if anyone has listed the things in early MMOs that required much, if any, IQ?
Corpse runs?
Mob camping?
Grouping?
Settlement building?
What is it about the early games that required even a mediocre IQ?
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
First you have to bring back a community with an IQ above 50.
I would guess the IQ of most posters on this site to be 90-100 judging by reading their posts. I realize that's not much to go on, but humor me here. I honestly think there are a lot of gamers with higher IQs, but like the rest of the population, I think the gamer population is just average for the most part. I don't think most of us are "speeeshul" and have extraordinary IQs. I think many of us over-estimate our IQs because we're inherently geeky, but most have probably never had an actual and proper IQ test.
I know I'm not perfect with grammar and spelling, but just one brief glance at most of the posts on this site and you'll see why I estimate the IQs to be simply average.
Even if you've had a proper IQ test as I've had (officially administered etc.) people won't believe whatever number you say.
I dont see why maps showing where a quest objective is so u dont have to spend 3 hrs finding it is a bad thing, I also dont see why adding ui's that are easy to use and having games that dont take a degree in computer science to play is bad.
Just because games got rid of needless tedium doesnt mean they made them way easy.
People seem to equate a game that has mind numbing grind to just find a quest area or a harsh dp as proof a game is smater and takes a smarter player base when in fact is just proves that some players want mindless crap to do
Truth is alot of the convienence's of modern mmo's was a necessary step. Not so mentally handicapped players could play as this posts first thread insinuates but so that people who have jobs and cant spend 3 hrs finding the spot to kill 10 rabits for there gizzards can atually play games.
I can't ever recall spending 3 hours to find where to go in any MMO I've ever played. Anyone who has obviously lacks the intellect and/or the attention span to actually read the text on their screen.
As for just plain finding things for yourself, exploration has suffered greatly in MMOs. Pinpoint accurate maps, giant magical arrows always pointing you in the right direction, these things remove the need to comprehend directions and think for one's self.
Granted, not every game needs to be mentally stimulating. I love running over guys in hot dog suits in Saints Row from time to time. The problem is that ALL new MMOs these days lack that same stimulus the older ones had.
Sure, not everyone has time to spend several hours a day playing MMOs. I'm ok with there being games out there for those players. One person's "tedium", however, is "lasting value" to another. Currently only one audience is getting what they want from the MMORPG market. If the shoe were on the other foot, would you be complaining that there was no game out there for you?
First you have to bring back a community with an IQ above 50.
I would guess the IQ of most posters on this site to be 90-100 judging by reading their posts. I realize that's not much to go on, but humor me here. I honestly think there are a lot of gamers with higher IQs, but like the rest of the population, I think the gamer population is just average for the most part. I don't think most of us are "speeeshul" and have extraordinary IQs. I think many of us over-estimate our IQs because we're inherently geeky, but most have probably never had an actual and proper IQ test.
I know I'm not perfect with grammar and spelling, but just one brief glance at most of the posts on this site and you'll see why I estimate the IQs to be simply average.
I has never had an IQ test and I know I am cleverer than most because my grammarism and spellings are truele amazsing and we all know counting and maths and stuffs... 3x10= 10 10 10!!! This was my teacher!!!
You uns is jest plumb brilyunt! You uns wanna get hitched an make purdy geek babeez?
Originally posted by BadSpock
Even if you've had a proper IQ test as I've had (officially administered etc.) people won't believe whatever number you say.
Internet = mistrust.
I didn't plan on offering my IQ or asking for IQs, for that matter. It's just the principle of this thread. Someone with an IQ of 50 wouldn't be here reading all this stuff, but it's not like the MMORPG.com community are all sportin' genius IQs. I mean, that is just LAUGHABLE.
I too have had a proper IQ test as it was required as part of vocational rehabilitation and administered by one of their employees. So I know my IQ. No, it's not over 160 like some "MENSA member" in here was bragging. And you're right....I didn't believe it when he/she said it.
I still think most gamers have an average or above average (not genius) IQ. Reading the forums here should make that abundantly clear. These forums and the writing therein are average or below average in quality. And I'm not letting myself off the hook there either. Very few geniuses "live here." I know that I am certainly NOT a genius.
I can not compare EQ difficulty because then I was 16 years old! I was like girls games girls girls weed girls girls games school games girls girls girls games....!
Unlike now on todays MMO.. sleep girlfriend work work work gym work work work gym tv games girlfriend sleep! repeat
All hail the Barn Owl! oh.. and the RED SQUIRREL!!!
However I think a game with more to do that is non combat would be way more fun than WoW.
THAT of course is a personal preference because combat is obviously popular (just a quick survey of video games can see that).
Having said that, there are obviously fun and non-combat activities. Deus Ex is a good example of that. Hacking, stealth .. and it is possible to finish that game WITHOUT killing any NPCs except bosses. Note that most of the gameplay is still conflict focus. May be a MMO can use mechanics like that.
Lastly, i do not think there is any "intended" way to play WOW (or any other MMOs). The path they mapped out with quests and dungeon progression is just a convenient feature (not unlike LFD). A player do NOT have to follow it. Anything is fair game within the game rules.
There are many devoted to collect pets instead of raiding the highest dungeons.
There are many devoted to complete certain kind of achievements (like exploration!).
There are many devoted to only arena pvp.
In fact, in MotP, Blizz is going to put a "pokemon" game inside WOW. I believe some will hate it, but some will make THAT the focus on their gameplay.
Once again, many choices are good. There is no single play-path/style.
However I think a game with more to do that is non combat would be way more fun than WoW.
THAT of course is a personal preference because combat is obviously popular (just a quick survey of video games can see that).
Having said that, there are obviously fun and non-combat activities. Deus Ex is a good example of that. Hacking, stealth .. and it is possible to finish that game WITHOUT killing any NPCs except bosses. Note that most of the gameplay is still conflict focus. May be a MMO can use mechanics like that.
Lastly, i do not think there is any "intended" way to play WOW (or any other MMOs). The path they mapped out with quests and dungeon progression is just a convenient feature (not unlike LFD). A player do NOT have to follow it. Anything is fair game within the game rules.
There are many devoted to collect pets instead of raiding the highest dungeons.
There are many devoted to complete certain kind of achievements (like exploration!).
There are many devoted to only arena pvp.
In fact, in MotP, Blizz is going to put a "pokemon" game inside WOW. I believe some will hate it, but some will make THAT the focus on their gameplay.
Once again, many choices are good. There is no single play-path/style.
The thing is that in WoW not combat activities are not that great. They aren't god awful, but there is a reason most people who like other things don't play WoW.
You can do non combat things sure, but they aren't the highest quality of activities. People who do other things made the best of a bad situation.
The thing is that in WoW not combat activities are not that great. They aren't god awful, but there is a reason most people who like other things don't play WoW.
You can do non combat things sure, but they aren't the highest quality of activities. People who do other things made the best of a bad situation.
If you argument is true, than all these people should just leave WOW and play other games.
Take me as an example, i also collect pets. I really do not find another MMOs that have the art quality, diversity as well as collection mechanics (how you get the pet .. quests? dungeons? rare drops? rep grinds? real money?) as WOW.
This, of course, need to be tackle in a case by case basis since there are so many different activities. Regarding my example, is there another game that is better than WOW in terms of pet collection?
I didn't plan on offering my IQ or asking for IQs, for that matter. It's just the principle of this thread. Someone with an IQ of 50 wouldn't be here reading all this stuff, but it's not like the MMORPG.com community are all sportin' genius IQs. I mean, that is just LAUGHABLE.
I too have had a proper IQ test as it was required as part of vocational rehabilitation and administered by one of their employees. So I know my IQ. No, it's not over 160 like some "MENSA member" in here was bragging. And you're right....I didn't believe it when he/she said it.
I still think most gamers have an average or above average (not genius) IQ. Reading the forums here should make that abundantly clear. These forums and the writing therein are average or below average in quality. And I'm not letting myself off the hook there either. Very few geniuses "live here." I know that I am certainly NOT a genius.
I always tell people, "just because I'm a genius doesn't mean that I'm very smart." lol
I am betting though that there is a correlation between pre-mainstream MMO community members and high IQ.
Before MMOs became a popular genre, it was truly a genre for geeks/dorks only.
Now that it's mainstream, yeah, I'd say total MMO community these days is of fairly average intellect.
And no, that is not an insult.
I for one truly appreciate how much bigger the genre has grown and how many more titles we have to choose from because of the inclusion of the mainstream gaming audience to our once little genre.
The thing is that in WoW not combat activities are not that great. They aren't god awful, but there is a reason most people who like other things don't play WoW.
You can do non combat things sure, but they aren't the highest quality of activities. People who do other things made the best of a bad situation.
If you argument is true, than all these people should just leave WOW and play other games.
Take me as an example, i also collect pets. I really do not find another MMOs that have the art quality, diversity as well as collection mechanics (how you get the pet .. quests? dungeons? rare drops? rep grinds? real money?) as WOW.
This, of course, need to be tackle in a case by case basis since there are so many different activities. Regarding my example, is there another game that is better than WOW in terms of pet collection?
Most people do leave WoW to play other games. Some people may have other reasons to play WoW. Time investment, enjoying other parts of the game, friends, not being nerdy enough to try other games.
I didn't plan on offering my IQ or asking for IQs, for that matter. It's just the principle of this thread. Someone with an IQ of 50 wouldn't be here reading all this stuff, but it's not like the MMORPG.com community are all sportin' genius IQs. I mean, that is just LAUGHABLE.
I too have had a proper IQ test as it was required as part of vocational rehabilitation and administered by one of their employees. So I know my IQ. No, it's not over 160 like some "MENSA member" in here was bragging. And you're right....I didn't believe it when he/she said it.
I still think most gamers have an average or above average (not genius) IQ. Reading the forums here should make that abundantly clear. These forums and the writing therein are average or below average in quality. And I'm not letting myself off the hook there either. Very few geniuses "live here." I know that I am certainly NOT a genius.
I always tell people, "just because I'm a genius doesn't mean that I'm very smart." lol
I am betting though that there is a correlation between pre-mainstream MMO community members and high IQ.
Before MMOs became a popular genre, it was truly a genre for geeks/dorks only.
Now that it's mainstream, yeah, I'd say total MMO community these days is of fairly average intellect.
And no, that is not an insult.
I for one truly appreciate how much bigger the genre has grown and how many more titles we have to choose from because of the inclusion of the mainstream gaming audience to our once little genre.
That is a great hypothesis. It's completely logical. Pre-WoW (sorry to the WoW fans) the DnD "world," MUD "world" and MMO "world," so to speak, were different places predominantly full of "nerds" and "geeks" and probably prone to attract people with higher intelligence. Not that WoW is dumb or anything, it's just more accessible. The UI is intuitive. Both things that older MMOs did not have.
I always tell people, "just because I'm a genius doesn't mean that I'm very smart." lol
I am betting though that there is a correlation between pre-mainstream MMO community members and high IQ.
Before MMOs became a popular genre, it was truly a genre for geeks/dorks only.
Now that it's mainstream, yeah, I'd say total MMO community these days is of fairly average intellect.
And no, that is not an insult.
I for one truly appreciate how much bigger the genre has grown and how many more titles we have to choose from because of the inclusion of the mainstream gaming audience to our once little genre.
That is a great hypothesis. It's completely logical. Pre-WoW (sorry to the WoW fans) the DnD "world," MUD "world" and MMO "world," so to speak, were different places predominantly full of "nerds" and "geeks" and probably prone to attract people with higher intelligence. Not that WoW is dumb or anything, it's just more accessible. The UI is intuitive. Both things that older MMOs did not have.
I think you're onto something here.
I think the OP was kind of on the right track too, he just presented it in a way that was rude, offensive, and short sighted.
A person with an IQ below 50 would be a person who has trouble feeding and dressing themselves. Highly doubt they could realistically play any MMO.
In any sense, we the "old school" MMO vets are kind of like hipsters. Hipsters think they are cool for getting into stuff before it is "mainstream."
Hipsters are also giant flaming douches.
Old MMOs were made by huge nerds for huge nerds. While being a huge nerd was never cool and truthfully never will be cool, geekdom and gaming life is mainstream / popular now.
We hipsters just have to accept it.
Indie MMOs and/or sandbox titles seem to be the new thing for the emo-hipster MMO players
I always tell people, "just because I'm a genius doesn't mean that I'm very smart." lol
I am betting though that there is a correlation between pre-mainstream MMO community members and high IQ.
Before MMOs became a popular genre, it was truly a genre for geeks/dorks only.
Now that it's mainstream, yeah, I'd say total MMO community these days is of fairly average intellect.
And no, that is not an insult.
I for one truly appreciate how much bigger the genre has grown and how many more titles we have to choose from because of the inclusion of the mainstream gaming audience to our once little genre.
That is a great hypothesis. It's completely logical. Pre-WoW (sorry to the WoW fans) the DnD "world," MUD "world" and MMO "world," so to speak, were different places predominantly full of "nerds" and "geeks" and probably prone to attract people with higher intelligence. Not that WoW is dumb or anything, it's just more accessible. The UI is intuitive. Both things that older MMOs did not have.
I think you're onto something here.
I think the OP was kind of on the right track too, he just presented it in a way that was rude, offensive, and short sighted.
A person with an IQ below 50 would be a person who has trouble feeding and dressing themselves. Highly doubt they could realistically play any MMO.
In any sense, we the "old school" MMO vets are kind of like hipsters. Hipsters think they are cool for getting into stuff before it is "mainstream."
Hipsters are also giant flaming douches.
Old MMOs were made by huge nerds for huge nerds. While being a huge nerd was never cool and truthfully never will be cool, geekdom and gaming life is mainstream / popular now.
We hipsters just have to accept it.
Indie MMOs and/or sandbox titles seem to be the new thing for the emo-hipster MMO players
I've been playing indie MMO's before the term hipster took hold.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Comments
I dont see why maps showing where a quest objective is so u dont have to spend 3 hrs finding it is a bad thing, I also dont see why adding ui's that are easy to use and having games that dont take a degree in computer science to play is bad.
Just because games got rid of needless tedium doesnt mean they made them way easy.
People seem to equate a game that has mind numbing grind to just find a quest area or a harsh dp as proof a game is smater and takes a smarter player base when in fact is just proves that some players want mindless crap to do
Truth is alot of the convienence's of modern mmo's was a necessary step. Not so mentally handicapped players could play as this posts first thread insinuates but so that people who have jobs and cant spend 3 hrs finding the spot to kill 10 rabits for there gizzards can atually play games.
I've only read portions of this thread over the past several days that it has been going, but I was wondering if anyone has listed the things in early MMOs that required much, if any, IQ?
Corpse runs?
Mob camping?
Grouping?
Settlement building?
What is it about the early games that required even a mediocre IQ?
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Even if you've had a proper IQ test as I've had (officially administered etc.) people won't believe whatever number you say.
Internet = mistrust.
I can't ever recall spending 3 hours to find where to go in any MMO I've ever played. Anyone who has obviously lacks the intellect and/or the attention span to actually read the text on their screen.
As for just plain finding things for yourself, exploration has suffered greatly in MMOs. Pinpoint accurate maps, giant magical arrows always pointing you in the right direction, these things remove the need to comprehend directions and think for one's self.
Granted, not every game needs to be mentally stimulating. I love running over guys in hot dog suits in Saints Row from time to time. The problem is that ALL new MMOs these days lack that same stimulus the older ones had.
Sure, not everyone has time to spend several hours a day playing MMOs. I'm ok with there being games out there for those players. One person's "tedium", however, is "lasting value" to another. Currently only one audience is getting what they want from the MMORPG market. If the shoe were on the other foot, would you be complaining that there was no game out there for you?
You uns is jest plumb brilyunt! You uns wanna get hitched an make purdy geek babeez?
I didn't plan on offering my IQ or asking for IQs, for that matter. It's just the principle of this thread. Someone with an IQ of 50 wouldn't be here reading all this stuff, but it's not like the MMORPG.com community are all sportin' genius IQs. I mean, that is just LAUGHABLE.
I too have had a proper IQ test as it was required as part of vocational rehabilitation and administered by one of their employees. So I know my IQ. No, it's not over 160 like some "MENSA member" in here was bragging. And you're right....I didn't believe it when he/she said it.
I still think most gamers have an average or above average (not genius) IQ. Reading the forums here should make that abundantly clear. These forums and the writing therein are average or below average in quality. And I'm not letting myself off the hook there either. Very few geniuses "live here." I know that I am certainly NOT a genius.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I can not compare EQ difficulty because then I was 16 years old! I was like girls games girls girls weed girls girls games school games girls girls girls games....!
Unlike now on todays MMO.. sleep girlfriend work work work gym work work work gym tv games girlfriend sleep! repeat
All hail the Barn Owl! oh.. and the RED SQUIRREL!!!
THAT of course is a personal preference because combat is obviously popular (just a quick survey of video games can see that).
Having said that, there are obviously fun and non-combat activities. Deus Ex is a good example of that. Hacking, stealth .. and it is possible to finish that game WITHOUT killing any NPCs except bosses. Note that most of the gameplay is still conflict focus. May be a MMO can use mechanics like that.
Lastly, i do not think there is any "intended" way to play WOW (or any other MMOs). The path they mapped out with quests and dungeon progression is just a convenient feature (not unlike LFD). A player do NOT have to follow it. Anything is fair game within the game rules.
There are many devoted to collect pets instead of raiding the highest dungeons.
There are many devoted to complete certain kind of achievements (like exploration!).
There are many devoted to only arena pvp.
In fact, in MotP, Blizz is going to put a "pokemon" game inside WOW. I believe some will hate it, but some will make THAT the focus on their gameplay.
Once again, many choices are good. There is no single play-path/style.
The thing is that in WoW not combat activities are not that great. They aren't god awful, but there is a reason most people who like other things don't play WoW.
You can do non combat things sure, but they aren't the highest quality of activities. People who do other things made the best of a bad situation.
If you argument is true, than all these people should just leave WOW and play other games.
Take me as an example, i also collect pets. I really do not find another MMOs that have the art quality, diversity as well as collection mechanics (how you get the pet .. quests? dungeons? rare drops? rep grinds? real money?) as WOW.
This, of course, need to be tackle in a case by case basis since there are so many different activities. Regarding my example, is there another game that is better than WOW in terms of pet collection?
I always tell people, "just because I'm a genius doesn't mean that I'm very smart." lol
I am betting though that there is a correlation between pre-mainstream MMO community members and high IQ.
Before MMOs became a popular genre, it was truly a genre for geeks/dorks only.
Now that it's mainstream, yeah, I'd say total MMO community these days is of fairly average intellect.
And no, that is not an insult.
I for one truly appreciate how much bigger the genre has grown and how many more titles we have to choose from because of the inclusion of the mainstream gaming audience to our once little genre.
Most people do leave WoW to play other games. Some people may have other reasons to play WoW. Time investment, enjoying other parts of the game, friends, not being nerdy enough to try other games.
That is a great hypothesis. It's completely logical. Pre-WoW (sorry to the WoW fans) the DnD "world," MUD "world" and MMO "world," so to speak, were different places predominantly full of "nerds" and "geeks" and probably prone to attract people with higher intelligence. Not that WoW is dumb or anything, it's just more accessible. The UI is intuitive. Both things that older MMOs did not have.
I think you're onto something here.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I think the OP was kind of on the right track too, he just presented it in a way that was rude, offensive, and short sighted.
A person with an IQ below 50 would be a person who has trouble feeding and dressing themselves. Highly doubt they could realistically play any MMO.
In any sense, we the "old school" MMO vets are kind of like hipsters. Hipsters think they are cool for getting into stuff before it is "mainstream."
Hipsters are also giant flaming douches.
Old MMOs were made by huge nerds for huge nerds. While being a huge nerd was never cool and truthfully never will be cool, geekdom and gaming life is mainstream / popular now.
We hipsters just have to accept it.
Indie MMOs and/or sandbox titles seem to be the new thing for the emo-hipster MMO players
"Please bring back MMOs that required an IQ above 50 to play!"
Well that leaves me out of the fun.
I've been playing indie MMO's before the term hipster took hold.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
I am still waiting for a MMORPG to take us from a Type 0 Civilization to a Type 1 Civilization. When that happens let me know!