Once again, this is an example of a thread which makes me fear for this game's community.
What? How does this change the community? Maybe you just have a constant view about the community and you go out on limbs trying to prove your view? Did you even read the main post?
I'm hearing a lot of elitism, and every time someone brings up a criticism about GW2 it's always because they don't understand Anet's design philosophy or they're just bad players. According to them, it's never because there may be real issues. For example:
"I think a lot of players who only play MMOS are oblivious to dodging otherwise it is hard to believe that people who are gamers in general wouldn't pay attention to dodge button."
"Yeah, a lot of the beta players are really terrible. I love the Yogscast coverage because they are entertaining to listen to, but my god, the guy who does the filming refuses to learn how to play! "
"What I realised is that the popular MMORPG's have caused this lack of ability to be aware and learn to adapt within something new. "
"the circles of death have been part of mmorpg's for years yet individuals still don't seem to wrap the idea around their head to MOVE out of it....These people will be weeded out because of dieing so easy all the time in GW2 or they will stick around and torture anyone that joins their groups."
"The problem is that most of those videos are made by people who tried the game for the first time. After years of static holy trinity combat it's not easy to embrace something this different so quickly. However, I must admit I've seen some really terrible players who click skills with mouse, just stand..."
"And I've seen the visual cues in Guild Wars 2. But like with the "GUILD WARS 2 MUST HAVE THE HOLY TRINITIES!" people, you'll get those who're just unfamiliar with this. (This is why I don't know if turning the asura into Exodar-borne gnomes was such a good idea, because I'm unsure whether they'll grab any WoW fans anyway due to how different GW2 is.)"
"Guild Wars 2 doesn't look particularly forgiving to players who just want to stand there and mash spell rotations all day."
"If you play this game like a rigid, holy trinity game: You're going to die. Horribly."
"Guild Wars 2 will require both dodging and role switching. These are two things that most MMO players are completely unaccustomed to."
"I hope these things weed out those individuals who refuse to learn to adapt to mechanics torturing and holding hostage those who join a party with them. "
"Let me sum this up in one word why people think that this is unneccesary mechcanic, "WoW" why wow? cause it comes down to what people are USE to the trinity and are scared of something new so they throw spears at it, why dont you see poeple in the videos using the dodge mechcanic much? because there not use to it plain and simple... come release/beta players will come to realise that GW2 won't need the trinity and the dodge mechanic is very important. its a very small change but poeple hate change... and i for one welcome it with VERY open arms."
"I blame games like Rift, for making players like him. "
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If you think every other game is so superior and that those who play those other games are somehow inferior to you, I simply do not want to play with you.
Thing is, the guy in the ZAM video actually admitted to not really knowing what he was doing, yet people are still jumping all over him because he said that a dungeon "might" need some additional tuning. For the record, it did look like a pain in the ass for classes that rely on channeling abilities.
I do agree with you that some fans could tone it down a bit but hyper-sensitivity to a community doesn't make much sense either. From the video's it appears that those who used the the dodge skill wisely had much better survivability then those that didn't. I think some people have an opinion about that because it isn't something we see in an MMO all that often. Stating that opinion doesn't make one an elitist. Making an opinion about the success of other players based on how well they use the dodge mechanic doesn't make them and elitist. If one of them made a statement, that "your not good enough for this game", then you would have elitism.
I only make this point becuase if I must consider the above elitist, then I must consider someone who criticizes Biowares moral decisions as "sketchy at best" to be just as elitist as the above. After all, both are stating opinions about other peoples work.
BTW, I agree with the "sketchy at best" observation.
Didn't you hear? On the internet 'elitist' is the word used to describe someone who's right/got a point by someone who doesn't want to admit it. It's the closest many touchy posters get to every admitting that the other guys are right
That's why PC gamers are 'elitists' for saying console hardware is very weak now.
When a real elitist shows up, and they occasionally do, people who cry 'elitist' at people stating facts, or making observations, suddenly look like a bunch of morons.
Not everybody that plays MMOs are what I would call proper gamers. They only play MMO and so have no real way to adjust to a game's environment that might be different from their previous experience. Or maybe they are just stupid, who knows.
But if someone cannot adjust then that just makes them a bad player.
Not everybody that plays MMOs are what I would call proper gamers. They only play MMO and so have no real way to adjust to a game's environment that might be different from their previous experience. Or maybe they are just stupid, who knows.
But if someone cannot adjust then that just makes them a bad player.
To be honest, someone who simply can't adjust to new systems (aka 'learning') can be called stupid really. I think it's a pretty fair definition. If you can't learn at all, then you're essentially stupid. I'm not talking people who can't dodge roll perfectly within their first hour, i'm talking about people who will still be spamming 1 while standing still two weeks down the line.
Not everybody that plays MMOs are what I would call proper gamers. They only play MMO and so have no real way to adjust to a game's environment that might be different from their previous experience. Or maybe they are just stupid, who knows.
But if someone cannot adjust then that just makes them a bad player.
To be honest, someone who simply can't adjust to new systems (aka 'learning') can be called stupid really. I think it's a pretty fair definition. If you can't learn at all, then you're essentially stupid. I'm not talking people who can't dodge roll perfectly within their first hour, i'm talking about people who will still be spamming 1 while standing still two weeks down the line.
I don't want to call them stupid because some of the time its the game's fault for not properly teaching the players or punishing them for being a bad player. I have played games that it was easy to go throug the whole game without knowing the full mechanics of the game and later having ot find out the hard way at level cap.
"I blame games like Rift, for making players like him. "
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If you think every other game is so superior and that those who play those other games are somehow inferior to you, I simply do not want to play with you.
Thing is, the guy in the ZAM video actually admitted to not really knowing what he was doing, yet people are still jumping all over him because he said that a dungeon "might" need some additional tuning. For the record, it did look like a pain in the ass for classes that rely on channeling abilities.
SuperX is back with avengence.
And for your infomation, I myself play Rift. Just failed to complete a Raid a couple hours ago, full of other players that just weren't geared for it... What point was I trying to make again?
Oh yeah, the ZAM guy. I made a joke about Rift because it's so easy to create a macro in that game where you simply can just stand there and press 1 button, exactly what that person was doing. He didn't play the game the way it is intended to be played and then blamed the game, for his poor performance, saying it needs balancing (in other words saying it needs to be idiot proof). So no, I don't blame the community for calling him out on his hurrendous "play by play commentary". And for the record, a Sceptor wielding Elementalist is incredibly mobile, even when channeling.
Try to get your facts straight with me, next time.
Stop with this BS rhetoric of "he didn't play the game the way it is intended." Do you work for Anet? If not, how much time have you spent with this game? Unless you've had hands on experience at some gaming expo, how can you say how the game is intended to be played when all you have to go on is developer hype videos and promotional news articles?
The game is in very limited closed beta. Stuff should still need some tuning, so why is it such a problem when you have a guy simply suggest that there is still some work to be done? Thing is, he didn't even explicitly state anything. He simply used his immediate situation as an example for the fact that there is still balance work to be done.You and those like you simply cannot take any ounce of criticism from anyone regarding your precious favorite upcoming MMORPG. When you do, you go into uber defensive mode and start criticizing their intelligence and video game skill, which is exactly what you did.
About Rift, I didn't know that you played Rift nor do I care. You mocked Rift's style of gameplay and Rift players. There will be plenty of people still playing Rift when GW2 is released because they prefer a certain style of gameplay. It doesn't make them lesser people or less skilled as gamers. Whether you like an action-based combat system or a more turn-based stats and ability centric game, you're still relying on skill to be efficient. It's two different types of skill.
Oh and before I forget, I'm still waiting on you to answer that question from the thread the other day.
Not everybody that plays MMOs are what I would call proper gamers. They only play MMO and so have no real way to adjust to a game's environment that might be different from their previous experience. Or maybe they are just stupid, who knows.
But if someone cannot adjust then that just makes them a bad player.
To be honest, someone who simply can't adjust to new systems (aka 'learning') can be called stupid really. I think it's a pretty fair definition. If you can't learn at all, then you're essentially stupid. I'm not talking people who can't dodge roll perfectly within their first hour, i'm talking about people who will still be spamming 1 while standing still two weeks down the line.
I don't want to call them stupid because some of the time its the game's fault for not properly teaching the players or punishing them for being a bad player. I have played games that it was easy to go throug the whole game without knowing the full mechanics of the game and later having ot find out the hard way at level cap.
Aye, but dodging has it's own bar on screen that's pretty damn obvious
I stand by my statement of people still playing 'WoW in GW2' after 2-3 weeks of playtime is pretty 'stupid'. By that point you will have found that you can move while casting (and, indeed, been forced to have done so) and dodging seems to be introduced early on in the storyline missions by having fights which require dodging (the charr, for example, fight in an arena against a siege devourer which the attack does ~500 damage, essentially insta killing you unless you dodge).
There are some fun MMO's that I played last year where blocking or dodging is important. Dragons Nest, DCUO, Champions Online. DCUO works very well because a mob's major attack is shown with a visual sign above their head. But depending on the mob, sometimes it is better to dodge out of the way then just block. Combat in DCUO is one of the game's strong point imo.
I really like that you can cast on the move and dodge in GW2. I've played fps and other single player games for years , so I will get used to GW2 combat. But I fear for some friends of mine though. They are clickers who use the mouse to move forward. They will need to learn to strafe now. Dodging forward isnt always a good idea Learning to use keyboard to move is not easy if you never did that.
Let me sum this up in one word why people/OP think that this is unneccesary mechcanic, "WoW" why wow? cause it comes down to what people are USE to the trinity and are scared of something new so they throw spears at it, why dont you see poeple in the videos using the dodge mechcanic much? because there not use to it plain and simple... come release/beta players will come to realise that GW2 won't need the trinity and the dodge mechanic is very important. its a very small change but poeple hate change... and i for one welcome it with VERY open arms.
And we have a winner.
Originally posted by maskmurda
I await trolls who only read title and post those troll like comments.
You had me at hello. Obviously I knew this was coming and I intended to do this by planning months in advance for you good sir. Thanks Dekarx12 because without you this post would be pointless.
So those out there who are taking a simple observation way out of hand, please stop thinking your smarter then you actually are. You seriously make post taking things waaay out of context with your condescending smug remarks like you can speak for a whole nation of gamers. There is a diffrence between those who are good at games and those who are good at fallowing gamers. You say "oh I'm just use to doing X and Y is so foreign" then you out yourself as being a fallower who can't adapt to change. NO game I have played have I ever been oblivious to a mechanic or feature in the game because "I'm use to it being a certain way". Thats rubbish and you know it. You adapt and evolve. Thats how you get better. Thats the point of this post. It's sad when players can't change and hide behind safety nets of games that do not allow skill over game design. To the majority of the people out there who posted positively in this post, kudos to you for understanding a point. If I have ofended you, good. I still don't give a F***.
Originally posted by maskmurda Originally posted by therez0
Originally posted by Dekarx12 Let me sum this up in one word why people/OP think that this is unneccesary mechcanic, "WoW" why wow? cause it comes down to what people are USE to the trinity and are scared of something new so they throw spears at it, why dont you see poeple in the videos using the dodge mechcanic much? because there not use to it plain and simple... come release/beta players will come to realise that GW2 won't need the trinity and the dodge mechanic is very important. its a very small change but poeple hate change... and i for one welcome it with VERY open arms.
And we have a winner.
Originally posted by maskmurda
I await trolls who only read title and post those troll like comments.
You had me at hello. Obviously I knew this was coming and I intended to do this by planning months in advance for you good sir. Thanks Dekarx12 because without you this post would be pointless. So those out there who are taking a simple observation way out of hand, please stop thinking your smarter then you actually are. You seriously make post taking things waaay out of context with your condescending smug remarks like you can speak for a whole nation of gamers. There is a diffrence between those who are good at games and those who are good at fallowing gamers. You say "oh I'm just use to doing X and Y is so foreign" then you out yourself as being a fallower who can't adapt to change. NO game I have played have I ever been oblivious to a mechanic or feature in the game because "I'm use to it being a certain way". Thats rubbish and you know it. You adapt and evolve. Thats how you get better. Thats the point of this post. It's sad when players can't change and hide behind safety nets of games that do not allow skill over game design. To the majority of the people out there who posted positively in this post, kudos to you for understanding a point. If I have ofended you, good. I still don't give a F***.
You're absolutely right. Now if you could only use your amazing powers of adapting to game mechanics to adapt to forum diversity. THEN we'd really be getting somewhere hehe
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
"I blame games like Rift, for making players like him. "
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If you think every other game is so superior and that those who play those other games are somehow inferior to you, I simply do not want to play with you.
Thing is, the guy in the ZAM video actually admitted to not really knowing what he was doing, yet people are still jumping all over him because he said that a dungeon "might" need some additional tuning. For the record, it did look like a pain in the ass for classes that rely on channeling abilities.
I made a joke about Rift because it's so easy to create a macro in that game where you simply can just stand there and press 1 button
seriously what is with you weirdos and your obsession with how many buttons you press? Maybe for an attack you can narrow it down to 1 main button with a couple of situationals, but there's other things you can or need to do besides attack, it's never that simple, and wtf is wrong with you mmo players who thinks THAT IT EVER MATTERED HOW MANY BUTTONS YOU HAD TO PRESS. that was never skillful or impressive. maybe you and a few other elitists think your 15 WoW hotbars are the shiznit, but step into the mainstream.
Just because this game has a half-assed dodge mechanic doesn't mean suddenly it's going to make your e-peen erect at your own button pressing prowess. There's nothing special about dodging, blocking, etc, especially in a game that's still essentially cooldown/timing and power choosing and level based.
Did the counterstrike servers break and flood mmorpg.com with people who think they got mad skillz yo? I truly do not understand. What makes rpg's different is that you plan out the battles and your characters strengths and weaknesses BEFORE the battle. You use strategy and a little number crunching and power/class/role synergy. That's even the case in action rpg's.
I've already seen people on this forum start calling people who are critical of dodge 'bads'. lol seriously dog, seriously?
Esport mentality. This game has it. May not be for everyone and thats ok. But its gonna be hard for some people to not feel smug about their playstyle. It reminds me of that South Park episode where the whole town bought hybrids.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Once again, this is an example of a thread which makes me fear for this game's community.
What? How does this change the community? Maybe you just have a constant view about the community and you go out on limbs trying to prove your view? Did you even read the main post?
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If you think every other game is so superior and that those who play those other games are somehow inferior to you, I simply do not want to play with you.
Thing is, the guy in the ZAM video actually admitted to not really knowing what he was doing, yet people are still jumping all over him because he said that a dungeon "might" need some additional tuning. For the record, it did look like a pain in the ass for classes that rely ]
Ok. I thought you were just basing what you said of the OP's post. I agree that yes our community is one of the loudest, but why not? We have one of the most Hyped MMOs, good reviews so far, along with a overall good performance (as said by some people), so it is deserved. Some games are simply superior to others, nothing is ever truly equal. So so what if they compare it? I feel Guild Wars 2 is superior to other games. I have my reason why it is superior. People saying "OMG this game (whatever game you choose) is so much better than that game!" happens everyday. And many times it is true. So saying a community is bad becuase it feels one thing is superior to another thing is completely silly and slightly ironic, becuase by saying that community is bad your saying yours is good or better. So you seem to think yourself superior. Hmm.
Also, nitpicking at problems isn't going to help either, as is over-hyping the good parts. But what else are we to do? Everyone does it, there is no "middle ground". No, some (like you it seems) may view themselves as "middle ground", that they know all, and can see through "the haze of hype". But no, they are nitpickers, not trolls, but nitpickers.
i think a dodge button is a nice consept. really i tend to get annoyed when another player thinks they are more skilled then me because they have 3-5 levels above me. Things like Block in Champions and this dodge for GW2 would be a nice feature.
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Just because this game has a half-assed dodge mechanic doesn't mean suddenly it's going to make your e-peen erect at your own button pressing prowess. There's nothing special about dodging, blocking, etc, especially in a game that's still essentially cooldown/timing and power choosing and level based.
The whole point of this discussion is that you can plainly see from the press event videos that there is a very large divide between players that are good at the dodge mechanic and the players that either aren't very good at it or don't use it at all.
I'm assuming that you haven't seen any gameplay videos from GW2 players that can actually use dodging and movement in combat well or you wouldn't be calling it a half-assed mechanic or saying that your character's power is level based. While there are levels in the game, a skilled level 10 player can defeat a level 80 player with slower reflexes and lower critical thinking skills.
What makes rpg's different is that you plan out the battles and your characters strengths and weaknesses BEFORE the battle. You use strategy and a little number crunching and power/class/role synergy. That's even the case in action rpg's.
If you're talking about PvE here, then I kind of agree with you. You need to plan your characters and group makeup before going into a hard battle such as a dungeon, but there's also a lot of the combat gameplay that requires on-the-fly quick thinking and reflexes to do well.
Watch any of the dungeon crawl videos from the press event and you should be able to see what I mean.
If you were talking about PvP, well you're completely wrong there.
I've already seen people on this forum start calling people who are critical of dodge 'bads'. lol seriously dog, seriously?
I guess that depends on what the criticism is. If someone is complaning that having to dodge away from attacks is too hard, then I would agree with these mythical people that would call them "bads". If they are critical because people that are good at dodging will be able to take out mobs that a "typical" MMO player would not be able to, then ... well I'd still think they are just whining.
Did you have an example of a criticism for having dodge in the game that couldn't be equated to the person bringing up the complaint as simply not wanting to learn a new mechanic?
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
I'm really surprised that people who've not seen that many videos never ask themselves "But why are they getting downed so much? Is the game that hard?"
It's not that hard, really. It's just that you're looking at people who don't dodge out of enemy AoE attack range. It's marked with a cue, but if you just stand there and take it, you're going to hemmorhage health. That's what you're seeing in those videos. I've seen videos where, in a single boss fight, someone gets downed almost right away, then gets downed again, and then goes to hang out at the rear of the fight in a fearful way.
And then I've seen videos where people can just be in melee range of a boss and not take much damage at all, because these guys know when to use their control/defensive abilities, and they know when to dodge. I mean... hey, I'm an Engie and I don't have enough 'dodge power/stamina' (or whatever they're going to call it) to dodge. What do I do?! I raise my shield! I mean, it's all about assessing what you have available to you, and the rest is observational skills.
Timing is so important.
It's also worth noting what other people are doing, too. Does the Warrior have his shield raised? Is he close enough to get to before the AoE hits? Make a dsah for him! Stand behind him! You'll take less/no damage thanks to his protection. And that's how it's going to work. But some people play this like an old-style MMO, and the result is that they're downed in seconds. So if you see someone getting downed a lot - it's not that the game is hard, it's just that they haven't figured out how different it is in play-style yet.
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I mean, think of this like Mass Effect - if you stand out of cover and just let a turret and a heavy mech shoot at you continuously, how do you think that's goign to work out for you? It'll end badly, and likely quickly. And that's what we're seeing happen in those videos. 'Dodge' is GW2's cover mechanic. And defensive skills make for mobile cover platforms, if that makes sense. I mean, a Warrior can raise their shield, a Guardian can put up a dome, and by standing in the vicinity you're 'in cover.'
Maybe that'll help with the understanding of it. But if you don't see someone dodging in a video, you'll likely see their health being sucked away quickly too. And there's your answer why.
"I blame games like Rift, for making players like him. "
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If you think every other game is so superior and that those who play those other games are somehow inferior to you, I simply do not want to play with you.
Thing is, the guy in the ZAM video actually admitted to not really knowing what he was doing, yet people are still jumping all over him because he said that a dungeon "might" need some additional tuning. For the record, it did look like a pain in the ass for classes that rely on channeling abilities.
I made a joke about Rift because it's so easy to create a macro in that game where you simply can just stand there and press 1 button
seriously what is with you weirdos and your obsession with how many buttons you press? Maybe for an attack you can narrow it down to 1 main button with a couple of situationals, but there's other things you can or need to do besides attack, it's never that simple, and wtf is wrong with you mmo players who thinks THAT IT EVER MATTERED HOW MANY BUTTONS YOU HAD TO PRESS. that was never skillful or impressive. maybe you and a few other elitists think your 15 WoW hotbars are the shiznit, but step into the mainstream.
Just because this game has a half-assed dodge mechanic doesn't mean suddenly it's going to make your e-peen erect at your own button pressing prowess. There's nothing special about dodging, blocking, etc, especially in a game that's still essentially cooldown/timing and power choosing and level based.
Did the counterstrike servers break and flood mmorpg.com with people who think they got mad skillz yo? I truly do not understand. What makes rpg's different is that you plan out the battles and your characters strengths and weaknesses BEFORE the battle. You use strategy and a little number crunching and power/class/role synergy. That's even the case in action rpg's.
I've already seen people on this forum start calling people who are critical of dodge 'bads'. lol seriously dog, seriously?
Who says my e-peen isn't hard already just thinking about that dodge mechanic. Wow, people take a joke too seriously around these parts. Maybe I should add a /humour onto my post.
It's really kind of too early to be annoyed by this IMO. it's only beta, I'll wait until we actually have a game a month or two out of beta (not that we should need that long). At least by then it's more justifiable to say "How can you NOT know when to dodge?!" or w/e. I get so tired of these kind of things though, listening to people argue over what someone else did or did not do and waste precious play time of others in the group. One of the things I am so happy about is fact that this game seems to make people more self-reliant. Just leave the whiners and those who die alot, behind ;-)
Comments
I do agree with you that some fans could tone it down a bit but hyper-sensitivity to a community doesn't make much sense either. From the video's it appears that those who used the the dodge skill wisely had much better survivability then those that didn't. I think some people have an opinion about that because it isn't something we see in an MMO all that often. Stating that opinion doesn't make one an elitist. Making an opinion about the success of other players based on how well they use the dodge mechanic doesn't make them and elitist. If one of them made a statement, that "your not good enough for this game", then you would have elitism.
I only make this point becuase if I must consider the above elitist, then I must consider someone who criticizes Biowares moral decisions as "sketchy at best" to be just as elitist as the above. After all, both are stating opinions about other peoples work.
BTW, I agree with the "sketchy at best" observation.
Didn't you hear? On the internet 'elitist' is the word used to describe someone who's right/got a point by someone who doesn't want to admit it. It's the closest many touchy posters get to every admitting that the other guys are right
That's why PC gamers are 'elitists' for saying console hardware is very weak now.
When a real elitist shows up, and they occasionally do, people who cry 'elitist' at people stating facts, or making observations, suddenly look like a bunch of morons.
I could not dodge this thread...
teeheehee.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
Ba.Dum.Tssshh
Not everybody that plays MMOs are what I would call proper gamers. They only play MMO and so have no real way to adjust to a game's environment that might be different from their previous experience. Or maybe they are just stupid, who knows.
But if someone cannot adjust then that just makes them a bad player.
To be honest, someone who simply can't adjust to new systems (aka 'learning') can be called stupid really. I think it's a pretty fair definition. If you can't learn at all, then you're essentially stupid. I'm not talking people who can't dodge roll perfectly within their first hour, i'm talking about people who will still be spamming 1 while standing still two weeks down the line.
I don't want to call them stupid because some of the time its the game's fault for not properly teaching the players or punishing them for being a bad player. I have played games that it was easy to go throug the whole game without knowing the full mechanics of the game and later having ot find out the hard way at level cap.
Stop with this BS rhetoric of "he didn't play the game the way it is intended." Do you work for Anet? If not, how much time have you spent with this game? Unless you've had hands on experience at some gaming expo, how can you say how the game is intended to be played when all you have to go on is developer hype videos and promotional news articles?
The game is in very limited closed beta. Stuff should still need some tuning, so why is it such a problem when you have a guy simply suggest that there is still some work to be done? Thing is, he didn't even explicitly state anything. He simply used his immediate situation as an example for the fact that there is still balance work to be done.You and those like you simply cannot take any ounce of criticism from anyone regarding your precious favorite upcoming MMORPG. When you do, you go into uber defensive mode and start criticizing their intelligence and video game skill, which is exactly what you did.
About Rift, I didn't know that you played Rift nor do I care. You mocked Rift's style of gameplay and Rift players. There will be plenty of people still playing Rift when GW2 is released because they prefer a certain style of gameplay. It doesn't make them lesser people or less skilled as gamers. Whether you like an action-based combat system or a more turn-based stats and ability centric game, you're still relying on skill to be efficient. It's two different types of skill.
Oh and before I forget, I'm still waiting on you to answer that question from the thread the other day.
Aye, but dodging has it's own bar on screen that's pretty damn obvious
I stand by my statement of people still playing 'WoW in GW2' after 2-3 weeks of playtime is pretty 'stupid'. By that point you will have found that you can move while casting (and, indeed, been forced to have done so) and dodging seems to be introduced early on in the storyline missions by having fights which require dodging (the charr, for example, fight in an arena against a siege devourer which the attack does ~500 damage, essentially insta killing you unless you dodge).
There are some fun MMO's that I played last year where blocking or dodging is important. Dragons Nest, DCUO, Champions Online. DCUO works very well because a mob's major attack is shown with a visual sign above their head. But depending on the mob, sometimes it is better to dodge out of the way then just block. Combat in DCUO is one of the game's strong point imo.
I really like that you can cast on the move and dodge in GW2. I've played fps and other single player games for years , so I will get used to GW2 combat. But I fear for some friends of mine though. They are clickers who use the mouse to move forward. They will need to learn to strafe now. Dodging forward isnt always a good idea
Learning to use keyboard to move is not easy if you never did that.
You had me at hello. Obviously I knew this was coming and I intended to do this by planning months in advance for you good sir. Thanks Dekarx12 because without you this post would be pointless.
So those out there who are taking a simple observation way out of hand, please stop thinking your smarter then you actually are. You seriously make post taking things waaay out of context with your condescending smug remarks like you can speak for a whole nation of gamers. There is a diffrence between those who are good at games and those who are good at fallowing gamers. You say "oh I'm just use to doing X and Y is so foreign" then you out yourself as being a fallower who can't adapt to change. NO game I have played have I ever been oblivious to a mechanic or feature in the game because "I'm use to it being a certain way". Thats rubbish and you know it. You adapt and evolve. Thats how you get better. Thats the point of this post. It's sad when players can't change and hide behind safety nets of games that do not allow skill over game design. To the majority of the people out there who posted positively in this post, kudos to you for understanding a point. If I have ofended you, good. I still don't give a F***.
You had me at hello. Obviously I knew this was coming and I intended to do this by planning months in advance for you good sir. Thanks Dekarx12 because without you this post would be pointless.
So those out there who are taking a simple observation way out of hand, please stop thinking your smarter then you actually are. You seriously make post taking things waaay out of context with your condescending smug remarks like you can speak for a whole nation of gamers. There is a diffrence between those who are good at games and those who are good at fallowing gamers. You say "oh I'm just use to doing X and Y is so foreign" then you out yourself as being a fallower who can't adapt to change. NO game I have played have I ever been oblivious to a mechanic or feature in the game because "I'm use to it being a certain way". Thats rubbish and you know it. You adapt and evolve. Thats how you get better. Thats the point of this post. It's sad when players can't change and hide behind safety nets of games that do not allow skill over game design. To the majority of the people out there who posted positively in this post, kudos to you for understanding a point. If I have ofended you, good. I still don't give a F***.
You're absolutely right. Now if you could only use your amazing powers of adapting to game mechanics to adapt to forum diversity. THEN we'd really be getting somewhere hehe
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
seriously what is with you weirdos and your obsession with how many buttons you press? Maybe for an attack you can narrow it down to 1 main button with a couple of situationals, but there's other things you can or need to do besides attack, it's never that simple, and wtf is wrong with you mmo players who thinks THAT IT EVER MATTERED HOW MANY BUTTONS YOU HAD TO PRESS. that was never skillful or impressive. maybe you and a few other elitists think your 15 WoW hotbars are the shiznit, but step into the mainstream.
Just because this game has a half-assed dodge mechanic doesn't mean suddenly it's going to make your e-peen erect at your own button pressing prowess. There's nothing special about dodging, blocking, etc, especially in a game that's still essentially cooldown/timing and power choosing and level based.
Did the counterstrike servers break and flood mmorpg.com with people who think they got mad skillz yo? I truly do not understand. What makes rpg's different is that you plan out the battles and your characters strengths and weaknesses BEFORE the battle. You use strategy and a little number crunching and power/class/role synergy. That's even the case in action rpg's.
I've already seen people on this forum start calling people who are critical of dodge 'bads'. lol seriously dog, seriously?
Esport mentality. This game has it. May not be for everyone and thats ok. But its gonna be hard for some people to not feel smug about their playstyle. It reminds me of that South Park episode where the whole town bought hybrids.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Ok. I thought you were just basing what you said of the OP's post. I agree that yes our community is one of the loudest, but why not? We have one of the most Hyped MMOs, good reviews so far, along with a overall good performance (as said by some people), so it is deserved. Some games are simply superior to others, nothing is ever truly equal. So so what if they compare it? I feel Guild Wars 2 is superior to other games. I have my reason why it is superior. People saying "OMG this game (whatever game you choose) is so much better than that game!" happens everyday. And many times it is true. So saying a community is bad becuase it feels one thing is superior to another thing is completely silly and slightly ironic, becuase by saying that community is bad your saying yours is good or better. So you seem to think yourself superior. Hmm.
Also, nitpicking at problems isn't going to help either, as is over-hyping the good parts. But what else are we to do? Everyone does it, there is no "middle ground". No, some (like you it seems) may view themselves as "middle ground", that they know all, and can see through "the haze of hype". But no, they are nitpickers, not trolls, but nitpickers.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation
i think a dodge button is a nice consept. really i tend to get annoyed when another player thinks they are more skilled then me because they have 3-5 levels above me. Things like Block in Champions and this dodge for GW2 would be a nice feature.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
I'm really surprised that people who've not seen that many videos never ask themselves "But why are they getting downed so much? Is the game that hard?"
It's not that hard, really. It's just that you're looking at people who don't dodge out of enemy AoE attack range. It's marked with a cue, but if you just stand there and take it, you're going to hemmorhage health. That's what you're seeing in those videos. I've seen videos where, in a single boss fight, someone gets downed almost right away, then gets downed again, and then goes to hang out at the rear of the fight in a fearful way.
And then I've seen videos where people can just be in melee range of a boss and not take much damage at all, because these guys know when to use their control/defensive abilities, and they know when to dodge. I mean... hey, I'm an Engie and I don't have enough 'dodge power/stamina' (or whatever they're going to call it) to dodge. What do I do?! I raise my shield! I mean, it's all about assessing what you have available to you, and the rest is observational skills.
Timing is so important.
It's also worth noting what other people are doing, too. Does the Warrior have his shield raised? Is he close enough to get to before the AoE hits? Make a dsah for him! Stand behind him! You'll take less/no damage thanks to his protection. And that's how it's going to work. But some people play this like an old-style MMO, and the result is that they're downed in seconds. So if you see someone getting downed a lot - it's not that the game is hard, it's just that they haven't figured out how different it is in play-style yet.
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I mean, think of this like Mass Effect - if you stand out of cover and just let a turret and a heavy mech shoot at you continuously, how do you think that's goign to work out for you? It'll end badly, and likely quickly. And that's what we're seeing happen in those videos. 'Dodge' is GW2's cover mechanic. And defensive skills make for mobile cover platforms, if that makes sense. I mean, a Warrior can raise their shield, a Guardian can put up a dome, and by standing in the vicinity you're 'in cover.'
Maybe that'll help with the understanding of it. But if you don't see someone dodging in a video, you'll likely see their health being sucked away quickly too. And there's your answer why.
Who says my e-peen isn't hard already just thinking about that dodge mechanic. Wow, people take a joke too seriously around these parts. Maybe I should add a /humour onto my post.
Also here is my Rift Warrior.
It's really kind of too early to be annoyed by this IMO. it's only beta, I'll wait until we actually have a game a month or two out of beta (not that we should need that long). At least by then it's more justifiable to say "How can you NOT know when to dodge?!" or w/e. I get so tired of these kind of things though, listening to people argue over what someone else did or did not do and waste precious play time of others in the group. One of the things I am so happy about is fact that this game seems to make people more self-reliant. Just leave the whiners and those who die alot, behind ;-)
I don't condone the name calling, but not dodging in GW2 is actually playing badly. The dodge mechanic isn't 'half-assed', it's essential for playing.
Anyway, here's a proposed fix.
With a tip to the hat toward the Tales of Tyria podcast.
Yeah that was funny. My favourite one was this one. I'll save, because it could come in handy in these forums.