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Why This Old School EQ Gamer No Longer Plays MMORPGs

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  • phantomghostphantomghost Member UncommonPosts: 738

    On the topic of questing, the problem I have with quests is they are ridiculous.  Why would an NPC make me do something and claim I ended the war between these two factions by killing their leaders, granting me a title or suffix.  Then right after all this he recruits some person to do the same exact thing.  Just how many times does somebody need a supply crate they lost when the caravan was ambushed?

     

    If quests were more evolved it would be fun.

     

    By this I mean, maybe a ranger in town is upset, yelling that danger is on the way he saw a band or orcs gathering north of town. 

    The quest could be to go investigate this. 

    Multiple things could happen.

    1. He lied.  You wasted your time.

    2. He is telling the truth.  You can now have a quest to fight the mobs.

    3. You ignore it.

    Basically, if he was telling the truth.  The less time it takes for people to go fight the orcs the less there will be.  The longer, the more that will gather,  If it is ignored or people are defeated and never kill the orcs, they may overrun the town. 

     

    If quests were built around changing the gameplay and always changing that would be neat.  I realize it would be difficult.  And I relize they could not come up with various events that occur.  But events could occur more than once and still be different based on players reaction times.  Before you know it the zone could be taken over by orcs if nothing was done.  The zone could evolve completely.

     

    In this case, the quest could or could not give xp.  It could be a combination of those that like the grind of killing mobs and those that like to quest.


  • ValkaernValkaern Member UncommonPosts: 497

    Originally posted by Ecoces

    ah its the typical nostalgia post, lets remember everything with rose colored glasses. like your first love you remember all the good things about her but forget all the BS that came with those good things, and even those good things are over exaggerated.

     

    you talk about a different type of endgame besides raiding ... wait did we play the same EQ1? because thats all that game had at the endgame. And raiding in EQ1 for many fights was nothing but a zerg fight, raiding now is MUCH more complex than the days of EQ1, i think your rose colored glasses are too "rosey".

     

    community is still there they have just moved away from knowing everyone on the server to guildies. that was bound to happen when the genre became more mainstream, this genre is not just for the "nerds" any longer.

     

    finally lets talk about challenge, because this is the thing the "old schoolers" like to hang their hat on with EQ1. sure there were some challenging elements to eq1. but most of EQ1 just require more time to do, thats not challenging thats just tedious. they were just major timesinks ... longer does not mean its challenging.

     

     

    Oh BS. This again?

    EQ wasn't my first MMO by the way, yet I loved it. DAoC was a few years down the road and guess what? I loved it. Vanguard beta was a few years after that and guess what? I loved the beta. People have been leaning on this crap for years, do some research before posting unfounded nonsense. 

    Accept the fact that some people enjoy mechanics you don't. Guess what? I played WoW in the past, many years ago - yet the color glasses I remember it through are more brown than rose tinted. Shouldn't I remember it fondly according to your astute observation? I think I broke your go-to-cliche!

    Were those games perfect? Hell no, there were a few things I would have changed in a second, yet the overall experience was far preferable to the commercially viable trash that gets churned out today in order to take advantage of small minded ex-WoWers.

    Do you seriously have SO much faith in todays line up of identical crap that you can't for a second conceive of an MMO landscape that actually offered variety & depth?

    Your loss. Either way, let's drop the rose colored glasses cliche as it's officially been disproven.

    There should be laws against spouting such utter rubbish, you do know that people who actually played know that you're full of BS? Who are you so desperately trying to win over, and is it worth it? I grew to hate what raiding became in EQ, but even I can admit that encounters like 'Performer' for example would be well beyond the grasp of any WoW raid I'd ever seen and like most EQ raids far from zergable. Either you've never played and someone gave you bad info or you're just randomly making stuff up now :) 

    Seriously, what drives you people?

  • Kuro1nKuro1n Member UncommonPosts: 775

    I agree with OP on many things but different artstyle is nothing terrible imo. Also I didnt read the whole topic but I think OP should try playing EVE if he wants a bit of challenge.

    But IMO instanced stuff is boring and ruins the games those days usually, everything is easy nowadays no research needed and if you need it you can just click up some wikipedia and read all about the games secrets nothing to explore or to get to know. Also the games are without risk, you die and you just spawn again with maybe some debuff or such.

  • ValaraukoGRValaraukoGR Member Posts: 78

    Originally posted by ColumbiaTrue

     

    2.  Community: Who Needs It?

    There is a lack of a natural community in gaming. An interdependent community. We should depend on each other for items, grouping, exploring content, etc. 

    I will not even get into roleplaying that everyone used to participate in at least in some subtle ways, which really made gaming more immersive.

      

     


    Well said! imo that's the true "problem" of MMORPGs nowadays.  That's the core "problem" that ruins everything. Also, that's normal and expectable, for the simple reason that MMORPGs became mainstream, hence their own mainstream player-base demands all your other (also valid and correct)  points.


     


    That's why I don't believe a 3A MMORPG will ever satisfy me.  Have to find a low population MMO, with a dedicated "old-fashioned" community, or .... build one of my own :P


     


    -Val

  • WraithoneWraithone Member RarePosts: 3,806

    Originally posted by Valkaern

    Originally posted by Ecoces

    ah its the typical nostalgia post, lets remember everything with rose colored glasses. like your first love you remember all the good things about her but forget all the BS that came with those good things, and even those good things are over exaggerated.

     

    you talk about a different type of endgame besides raiding ... wait did we play the same EQ1? because thats all that game had at the endgame. And raiding in EQ1 for many fights was nothing but a zerg fight, raiding now is MUCH more complex than the days of EQ1, i think your rose colored glasses are too "rosey".

     

    community is still there they have just moved away from knowing everyone on the server to guildies. that was bound to happen when the genre became more mainstream, this genre is not just for the "nerds" any longer.

     

    finally lets talk about challenge, because this is the thing the "old schoolers" like to hang their hat on with EQ1. sure there were some challenging elements to eq1. but most of EQ1 just require more time to do, thats not challenging thats just tedious. they were just major timesinks ... longer does not mean its challenging.

     

     

    Oh BS. This again?

    EQ wasn't my first MMO by the way, yet I loved it. DAoC was a few years down the road and guess what? I loved it. Vanguard beta was a few years after that and guess what? I loved the beta. People have been leaning on this crap for years, do some research before posting unfounded nonsense. 

    Accept the fact that some people enjoy mechanics you don't. Guess what? I played WoW in the past, many years ago - yet the color glasses I remember it through are more brown than rose tinted. Shouldn't I remember it fondly according to your astute observation? I think I broke your go-to-cliche!

    Were those games perfect? Hell no, there were a few things I would have changed in a second, yet the overall experience was far preferable to the commercially viable trash that gets churned out today in order to take advantage of small minded ex-WoWers.

    Do you seriously have SO much faith in todays line up of identical crap that you can't for a second conceive of an MMO landscape that actually offered variety & depth?

    Your loss. Either way, let's drop the rose colored glasses cliche as it's officially been disproven.

    There should be laws against spouting such utter rubbish, you do know that people who actually played know that you're full of BS? Who are you so desperately trying to win over, and is it worth it? I grew to hate what raiding became in EQ, but even I can admit that encounters like 'Performer' for example would be well beyond the grasp of any WoW raid I'd ever seen and like most EQ raids far from zergable. Either you've never played and someone gave you bad info or you're just randomly making stuff up now :) 

    Seriously, what drives you people?

    Don't hold back Valk, tell us what you really think... image

    As the gaming audience has grown, with it have come many of the usual bias and preconceptions.  Mis and dis information  have expanded to the point, that the various factions might as well not even be speaking the same language.  I've seen the 733t and "pro" factions, as well as the rabid examples of ADD battle until both sides are foaming at the mouth. 

    It doesn't change anything.  Its like trying to talk sense to a neo con, or a neo lib.  Both are so deep into their own little worlds, that their grasp on reality as it exists, rather than as they perceive it to be, is feeble at best. 

    The current dismal state of the game industry, is simply a matter of market dynamics at work. Another way of phrasing that is "Monkey see, monkey do"... ^^ .  Its an example of the use of that mystic phrase used in investor meetings "Its just like World of Warcraft"... Which results in the investors eyes going wide with dollar signs, and them throwing semi trailer truck loads of money at the you.  ^^

    Voices of moderation get buried in the land slide of emotion thats pouring in from all sides.  To paraphrase Agent K; "Kinda makes you proud to be a human, doesn't it"?... ^^ Mix in the fact that what is challenging to one person, may be trivial to the point of being insulting to another, and you have what we are seeing today.

    Until various technologies expand and mature, so that these types of games do not require mega bucks to create, we are likely to continue to see the current trend of clones.  Or we could have another crash, like we saw in 84 with consoles.  Given how burned out some of us are getting, I'd not be surprised.  But as long as the gaming population is as large and  diverse as it is, I don't really see that happening industry wide. 

    "If you can't kill it, don't make it mad."
  • RefMinorRefMinor Member UncommonPosts: 3,452
    Originally posted by Wraithone


    Originally posted by Valkaern


    Originally posted by Ecoces


    ah its the typical nostalgia post, lets remember everything with rose colored glasses. like your first love you remember all the good things about her but forget all the BS that came with those good things, and even those good things are over exaggerated.
     
    you talk about a different type of endgame besides raiding ... wait did we play the same EQ1? because thats all that game had at the endgame. And raiding in EQ1 for many fights was nothing but a zerg fight, raiding now is MUCH more complex than the days of EQ1, i think your rose colored glasses are too "rosey".
     
    community is still there they have just moved away from knowing everyone on the server to guildies. that was bound to happen when the genre became more mainstream, this genre is not just for the "nerds" any longer.
     
    finally lets talk about challenge, because this is the thing the "old schoolers" like to hang their hat on with EQ1. sure there were some challenging elements to eq1. but most of EQ1 just require more time to do, thats not challenging thats just tedious. they were just major timesinks ... longer does not mean its challenging.
     
     

    Oh BS. This again?

    EQ wasn't my first MMO by the way, yet I loved it. DAoC was a few years down the road and guess what? I loved it. Vanguard beta was a few years after that and guess what? I loved the beta. People have been leaning on this crap for years, do some research before posting unfounded nonsense. 

    Accept the fact that some people enjoy mechanics you don't. Guess what? I played WoW in the past, many years ago - yet the color glasses I remember it through are more brown than rose tinted. Shouldn't I remember it fondly according to your astute observation? I think I broke your go-to-cliche!

    Were those games perfect? Hell no, there were a few things I would have changed in a second, yet the overall experience was far preferable to the commercially viable trash that gets churned out today in order to take advantage of small minded ex-WoWers.

    Do you seriously have SO much faith in todays line up of identical crap that you can't for a second conceive of an MMO landscape that actually offered variety & depth?

    Your loss. Either way, let's drop the rose colored glasses cliche as it's officially been disproven.

    There should be laws against spouting such utter rubbish, you do know that people who actually played know that you're full of BS? Who are you so desperately trying to win over, and is it worth it? I grew to hate what raiding became in EQ, but even I can admit that encounters like 'Performer' for example would be well beyond the grasp of any WoW raid I'd ever seen and like most EQ raids far from zergable. Either you've never played and someone gave you bad info or you're just randomly making stuff up now :) 

    Seriously, what drives you people?

    Don't hold back Valk, tell us what you really think... image

    As the gaming audience has grown, with it have come many of the usual bias and preconceptions.  Mis and dis information  have expanded to the point, that the various factions might as well not even be speaking the same language.  I've seen the 733t and "pro" factions, as well as the rabid examples of ADD battle until both sides are foaming at the mouth. 

    It doesn't change anything.  Its like trying to talk sense to a neo con, or a neo lib.  Both are so deep into their own little worlds, that their grasp on reality as it exists, rather than as they perceive it to be, is feeble at best. 

    The current dismal state of the game industry, is simply a matter of market dynamics at work. Another way of phrasing that is "Monkey see, monkey do"... ^^ .  Its an example of the use of that mystic phrase used in investor meetings "Its just like World of Warcraft"... Which results in the investors eyes going wide with dollar signs, and them throwing semi trailer truck loads of money at the you.  ^^

    Voices of moderation get buried in the land slide of emotion thats pouring in from all sides.  To paraphrase Agent K; "Kinda makes you proud to be a human, doesn't it"?... ^^ Mix in the fact that what is challenging to one person, may be trivial to the point of being insulting to another, and you have what we are seeing today.

    Until various technologies expand and mature, so that these types of games do not require mega bucks to create, we are likely to continue to see the current trend of clones.  Or we could have another crash, like we saw in 84 with consoles.  Given how burned out some of us are getting, I'd not be surprised.  But as long as the gaming population is as large and  diverse as it is, I don't really see that happening industry wide. 

     

    The console crash was due to the fact that large corporations made stale games then cheap programmable personal computers launched and unleashed a wave of creativity from individuals or small teams, Once there is some stable usable middleware out there under cheap or no upfront cost licence and numerous independant teams release decent looking diverse MMOs will we see anything like that in this genre.
  • BereKinBereKin Member Posts: 287

    Originally posted by ColumbiaTrue

    TRAGEDY AND HOPE: MMORPG GAMING 

    Why this Old School EQ Gamer No Longer Plays MMORPGs

     

    1.  Group Dynamics: Discipline, Predictability, and Reward

    Grouping has taken on a different life of its own: total and complete predictability. The mobs. The walkthrough. Even the rewards. The drops. Everything has been preplanned and even, literally, mapped out. 

    Seldom if ever is there a surprise in a group dungeon. It is usually instanced, and therefore your "community" cannot help (or hinder) you. 

    The whole predictable process becomes a boring chore to kill, collect, and obtain a predetermined item.

     

     

    2.  Community: Who Needs It?

    There is a lack of a natural community in gaming. An interdependent community. We should depend on each other for items, grouping, exploring content, etc. 

    I will not even get into roleplaying that everyone used to participate in at least in some subtle ways, which really made gaming more immersive.

     

     

    3.  Adventure? Exploration? 

    One reason why I loved expansions in Everquest was the opportunity to explore new content, obtain new items, and encounter new mobs. The excitement of exploration that I used to experience in Everquest is lacking if not absent in today's MMORPGs. 

     

     

    4.  Graphics Appear Cartoony, Childish

    I prefer more "realism" in the game. Everything seems to be out of proportion in today's MMORPGs. Everything appears glittery, big, and gaudy - tryng to achieve a "cool" look that becomes a parody of itself.

     

    It is all overdone.

     

     

    5.  Alternatives to an End Game

    Crafting, ship building, house construction, player economies, and much more are alternatives to an end game that focuses on raiding. The end game so to speak is a raid game, which has devolved into a really big group or a zerg (not necessarily a raid).

    Speaking of raiding, it can be made to be much more complex, challenging, and involved. Raiding should be in different forms: activities that take place across the span of the world to achieve the same objective.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Good old days 

  • ColumbiaTrueColumbiaTrue Member Posts: 47

    INNOVATION IS THE SOLUTION

    It is the lack of innovation in MMORPGs, and there are plenty of opportunities to incorporate innovative features and concepts into MMPROGs. As many people mentioned, there are varied ways to literally change the way players interact with each other and depend on each other beyond grouping, trading, and raiding. Social interaction in MMORPGs is but one area where innovation is desperately needed.

     

     

    EXIST THE CREATIVE DARKNESS PERIOD IN MMORPGS

    We see plenty of new games with the same WoW-style features without any innovative elements. More MMPROGs, but no so much in terms of additional features. The market among us that want something new and different is greatly underestimated by developers, gaming investors, executives, designers, etc.

     

     

    MMORPG 3.0 THROUGH PLAYER EMPOWERMENT AND PLAYER IMPACT

    MMORPGs can change radically to enlarge the market pie (some will say this change will be for the better and others for worse). It is time to enter MMORPG 3.0 with player empowerment and player impact concepts, features, and tools. 

    "The truth is EA lies." - Youtube User

    Sim City. Everquest. Civilization. Dungeon Keeper. Vampire: The Masquerade. These are the games that I love and cherish.

  • Fir3lineFir3line Member Posts: 767
    im imagining the op walking out of his house, cane in hand telling kids to get of his lawn

    "I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."

  • SlampigSlampig Member UncommonPosts: 2,342

    So basically the OP is not playing games anymore because of WoW.

     

    Thanks for the thread...

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • UproarUproar Member UncommonPosts: 521

    Originally posted by jdlamson75

    So a guy who doesn't play MMOs comes to a website dedicated to MMOs and tells us why he no longer plays MMOs.  Brilliant. 

     I hope that 75 doesn't reflect a certain aspect of your age... for if it does you are certainly a bit older and wiser then the words you just typed.  Drop the bias.

    image

  • Superduper69Superduper69 Member Posts: 363

    Originally posted by jdlamson75

    So a guy who doesn't play MMOs comes to a website dedicated to MMOs and tells us why he no longer plays MMOs.  Brilliant. 

    LOL....

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    Well, OP do have some point except with the cartoonish graphix which some people like while others don't.

    I miss those things as well ( I am happy that MMORPGs preview of GW2 stated that it brings back exploration, I missed that a lot).

    But computer games always change, it make not be so fast with MMOs but the genre will turn away from soloing Wow cardboard copies sooner or later and once again focus more on the social experience.

    The endgame will include more options eventually as well, once a big game add something new the others will follow.

  • darker70darker70 Member UncommonPosts: 804

    I agree wih the OP on many points but instead of moaning search out the positives certain devs are trying something different ,they realise that 21'st century players are sick of the same linear formula that is heralded as the future when in fact it takes the industry 10 steps back..

    So check out stuff like The Repopulation they have just been to GDC got a great writeup on massively,have a great and growing community,the devs are constantly on the forums they have a sensible roadmap and are working in union with the guys at Hero engine unlike Bioware who raped it beyond belief.So i reckon this ticks all your box's if u are following Repop great if not jump on board as we have not long to go as they are in alpha in June'ish,i would list the virtues of the game but  there really are too many !!

     

    p>
  • ColumbiaTrueColumbiaTrue Member Posts: 47

    Originally posted by darker70

    devs are trying something different ,they realise that 21'st century players are sick of the same linear formula 

     

    I hope so because this "creative darkness period" has lasted far too long. 

    "The truth is EA lies." - Youtube User

    Sim City. Everquest. Civilization. Dungeon Keeper. Vampire: The Masquerade. These are the games that I love and cherish.

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