A wipe in DF is a good thing. Every single player that played it for more than a month has exploited in someway to a varying degree. Why whinge about it since keeping old toons is going to result in the same low pop anyway. Exploited max skill chars 1v10'ing people makes people quit, not hard too see that isnt a good thing if you actually want the game to succeed.
Wiping is still too much.revamping the mechanics and not have you have your skills maxed out like you had before is fine (say you get 75% of max or so), that happens in other games when they make an expansion anyways.
But wiping someones character is not smart, people love their characters and wiping them because "you probably cheated anyways" is not a good reason.
A wipe in DF is a good thing. Every single player that played it for more than a month has exploited in someway to a varying degree. Why whinge about it since keeping old toons is going to result in the same low pop anyway. Exploited max skill chars 1v10'ing people makes people quit, not hard too see that isnt a good thing if you actually want the game to succeed.
So you a exploiter ? because if you ever have been in game you must have exploited according to your statement.
If you exploited and you played on and off you with those pople who have
1) exploited
2) don't supported DF with a continouusly subscription all the 3 years
but nevertheless you demand a
3) wipe
= Exploiters are also within those who want to wipe.
How are chances those exploiters don't cheat again in DF 2.0 ?
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Naw, their best move is to release DF 2.0 on a entirely new server in order to take advantage of more modern infrastructure and allow those who wish to play under the old mechanics to do so.
If people wish to start over on the new server more power to them.
(and yes, I do realize that such a move would likely kill the old server, but hey, you can't really kill that which is already dead)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Naw, their best move is to release DF 2.0 on a entirely new server in order to take advantage of more modern infrastructure and allow those who wish to play under the old mechanics to do so.
If people wish to start over on the new server more power to them.
(and yes, I do realize that such a move would likely kill the old server, but hey, you can't really kill that which is already dead)
Its not the matter of 'old mechanics' (or just only for some current subscriber). Regarding the wipe its the fair_compensation for our invested time.
best would be, same functuionality in "DF 2.0" and DF stay preserved. They don't change everything, in last announcements we heard so many things that sound familiar ..several existing magic lines, fire, water for example, many ships and in alst update they mentioned "ship crafter" and "ship crafting mastery" so its not all to newish a´nd it exists in current game.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Naw, their best move is to release DF 2.0 on a entirely new server in order to take advantage of more modern infrastructure and allow those who wish to play under the old mechanics to do so.
If people wish to start over on the new server more power to them.
(and yes, I do realize that such a move would likely kill the old server, but hey, you can't really kill that which is already dead)
Its not the matter of 'old mechanics' (or just only for some current subscriber). Regarding the wipe its the fair_compensation for our invested time.
best would be, same functuionality in "DF 2.0" and DF stay preserved. They don't change everything, in last announcements we heard so many things that sound familiar ..several existing magic lines, fire, water for example, many ships and in alst update they mentioned "ship crafter" and "ship crafting mastery" so its not all to newish a´nd it exists in current game.
Ouch, never use the word "fair", nothing in life is fair, the least of which being PVP centric MMO's.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Naw, their best move is to release DF 2.0 on a entirely new server in order to take advantage of more modern infrastructure and allow those who wish to play under the old mechanics to do so.
If people wish to start over on the new server more power to them.
(and yes, I do realize that such a move would likely kill the old server, but hey, you can't really kill that which is already dead)
...andt in strange eons even death may die?
Yeah, you are right. But I think tey fear that it would lead to 2 almost empty servers instead of 1 with medium load.
if you were really playing it for the competition then a wipe woudn't bother u at all. U sound like one the zerg gankers to me!
Wrong approach. Wiping a game 3 or 4 years later (DarkFall turned 3 this year), means erasing up to 3 years of time that players have spent into this game. Wiping at this point is saying that all those years spent were meaningless. It's like working in an company for 15 years, and then suddenly the employer shows up and say "You're all fired, but don't worry, you can always re-apply starting tomorrow." That's insanity.
Well, many games reset the playing field every so often. I don't get the notion of being entitled to a 3 year advantage just because you played longer. At some point it gets out of whack. I would look at is like this. "Hey, I played for 3 years and dominated. Time to start over and see if I can dominate the next 3 years."
Again, many MMO's even the playing field every so often. Either via expansions that require re-leveling and regearing or a cap which eventually lets newer players catch up to older players.
I just find it a bit selfish for old veterans in games to never let newer players have a chance of catching up.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Well, many games reset the playing field every so often.
Any examples ?
the one i know which was Shadowbane ..which is dead.
the other which is WWIIOnline. Which
doesn't have
a) crafting and building and
b) dont reset any "char progression" (even it hasnt any char progression in RPG sense but it doesn't delete progress either)
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Well, many games reset the playing field every so often.
Any examples ?
the one i know which was Shadowbane is dead.
Well, I said reset playing field OR skill cap. Tons and tons of games have a skill cap easily reached within a few months if not quicker (e.g., WoW, Rift, GW2, even Mortal Online). As for resetting playing field, you need look no further than WoW. Game is essentially reset every expansion so that would be what, 4 times now? People didn't seem to rage quit WoW whenever they reset the cap and gear making even the epicest of epic RAID loot obsolete from a quest green in the next expansion.
Obviously if you play DF you aren't going to be switching to a thempark but I can't think of too many games that make it nearly impossible for a noob to catch up within a year. DF and EVE being the only 2 I can think of actually. But I've only played around 20 or so MMO's so clearly I haven't played them all.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
DF is just one of those games that never lived up to expectations and now suffers from an identity crisis. I only played this game on and off for a total of about a year, so I never really felt invested as the current player-base. They are the ones that will in the end determine the outcome of this change. As a player like myself won't see this new version of DF to be enough to long term subscribe to.
The only hope here is they bring in enough new players to compensate for the current players they will loose and alienate with this. And even then what would be the point of going through all this work implementing so many changes only to break even at the end.
AV never really has been known to make stellar choices regarding their business model, but hey maybe it'll will all work out for them this time.
Everquest didn't do that when they brought out Everquest 2, and Everquest 1 is still around (somewhat).
Since they are starting over they would not want to transfer old characters over.
One - being that possible errors that were involved in spells and other things that wouldn't trasfer over very well.
Two - it's a new game, they want new people to come to the game and having characters already developed way beyond these new players isn't fair to them. Plus with how ganking was prominent in Darkfall wouldn't be a good business move.
Three - People were macroing skill gains anyways in that game (not everyone of course but I witnessed a lot of it) so it's not hard for you to regain your lost skills or go a different route. New game more fun, same feel as to old one probably.
Look I had a blast with Darkfall. I had an optimum experience. I found a nice little village out on an island with good resource gathering, I experienced the best the system has to offer, etc.
Darkfall is a broken game in so many ways. Progression, magic, skills, UI, etc. are all huge downsides. There is simply no way to make a good Darkfall 2.0 and transfer these horrible systems.
I have a char still with probably 200 loot bags each with a full set of equipment ready to PvP, I have maxed archery and a couple melee skills and some schools of magic.
They have to wipe this. If they don't I won't come back and I bet I have more to lose than almost any crybaby running around on forums.
Wipe it, get DF 2.0 out this year, and I will be back in a heart beat. I had some of my best MMO experiences in this horribly broken game and if they fix what they know is wrong and have said they are fixing it will be a beast of a sandbox MMO. A wipe has to happen, or a simply character name and possible bank transfer but all things skill system need to be wiped and a new non mindless grind progression has to be added for the company and the game to succeed.
Originally posted by DarthRaiden Originally posted by karmath A wipe in DF is a good thing. Every single player that played it for more than a month has exploited in someway to a varying degree. Why whinge about it since keeping old toons is going to result in the same low pop anyway. Exploited max skill chars 1v10'ing people makes people quit, not hard too see that isnt a good thing if you actually want the game to succeed.
So you a exploiter ? because if you ever have been in game you must have exploited according to your statement. If you exploited and you played on and off you with those pople who have 1) exploited 2) don't supported DF with a continouusly subscription all the 3 years
but nevertheless you demand a 3) wipe
= Exploiters are also within those who want to wipe. How are chances those exploiters don't cheat again in DF 2.0 ?
Yeah myself, my entire clan, my entire alliance and the vast majority of rival clans exploited various mobs to macro on. I would afk macro on mobs for days at a time while not even being at home. There was a constant flow of people afk'ing at spawns and people protecting the afkers. Rival clans/alliances would come to the exploitable spawns to kill our guys to take their reagents so they could claim the spawn as their own and afk macro on them. Why did people go to such lengths to cheat? Because 99% of the server was doing it in one form or another and you and your clan didnt stand a chance in hell if you didnt. I think we exploited one particular minotaur spawn for months before anything official was done about it. Looking back though, it was a kinda 'sandbox feature' that the players created for themselves, you cant image the in game wars and forum wars surrounding such events, it was actually pretty fun.
Hopefully AV learns for this and puts in systems to not only prevent this type of thing but actualy make it as fun as exploiting things was.
If you run macro's on a game for months on months did you at ANY point think.....what is the point of the game if I am not playing it?
Essentially when I read this I think...so you spent 4 months not playing the game so you could then play on a level playing field with all the other macro'ers when you could have simply installed any FPS game out there and INSTANTLY got the same-level gameplay you wanted.
A wipe in DF is a good thing. Every single player that played it for more than a month has exploited in someway to a varying degree. Why whinge about it since keeping old toons is going to result in the same low pop anyway. Exploited max skill chars 1v10'ing people makes people quit, not hard too see that isnt a good thing if you actually want the game to succeed.
So you a exploiter ? because if you ever have been in game you must have exploited according to your statement.
If you exploited and you played on and off you with those pople who have
1) exploited
2) don't supported DF with a continouusly subscription all the 3 years
but nevertheless you demand a
3) wipe
= Exploiters are also within those who want to wipe.
How are chances those exploiters don't cheat again in DF 2.0 ?
Yeah myself, my entire clan, my entire alliance and the vast majority of rival clans exploited various mobs to macro on. I would afk macro on mobs for days at a time while not even being at home. There was a constant flow of people afk'ing at spawns and people protecting the afkers. Rival clans/alliances would come to the exploitable spawns to kill our guys to take their reagents so they could claim the spawn as their own and afk macro on them. Why did people go to such lengths to cheat? Because 99% of the server was doing it in one form or another and you and your clan didnt stand a chance in hell if you didnt. I think we exploited one particular minotaur spawn for months before anything official was done about it. Looking back though, it was a kinda 'sandbox feature' that the players created for themselves, you cant image the in game wars and forum wars surrounding such events, it was actually pretty fun.
Hopefully AV learns for this and puts in systems to not only prevent this type of thing but actualy make it as fun as exploiting things was.
Thanks for admitiing it in the open. It was just as i thought.
No only did pro wipers exploit and ruined the gameplay for many of us who did not. Now they demand a server wipe on top and shit on the legit players a second time !
What are chances you min maxers and insta gratification kiddies do not exploit again ? on the slightest sign of a bug you will jump on the oppurtunity to exploit and cheat ! If they wipe this time they have to wipe every often and randomnly so you never have a chance to max your chars by exploiting !
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
A wipe in DF is a good thing. Every single player that played it for more than a month has exploited in someway to a varying degree. Why whinge about it since keeping old toons is going to result in the same low pop anyway. Exploited max skill chars 1v10'ing people makes people quit, not hard too see that isnt a good thing if you actually want the game to succeed.
So you a exploiter ? because if you ever have been in game you must have exploited according to your statement.
If you exploited and you played on and off you with those pople who have
1) exploited
2) don't supported DF with a continouusly subscription all the 3 years
but nevertheless you demand a
3) wipe
= Exploiters are also within those who want to wipe.
How are chances those exploiters don't cheat again in DF 2.0 ?
Yeah myself, my entire clan, my entire alliance and the vast majority of rival clans exploited various mobs to macro on. I would afk macro on mobs for days at a time while not even being at home. There was a constant flow of people afk'ing at spawns and people protecting the afkers. Rival clans/alliances would come to the exploitable spawns to kill our guys to take their reagents so they could claim the spawn as their own and afk macro on them. Why did people go to such lengths to cheat? Because 99% of the server was doing it in one form or another and you and your clan didnt stand a chance in hell if you didnt. I think we exploited one particular minotaur spawn for months before anything official was done about it. Looking back though, it was a kinda 'sandbox feature' that the players created for themselves, you cant image the in game wars and forum wars surrounding such events, it was actually pretty fun.
Hopefully AV learns for this and puts in systems to not only prevent this type of thing but actualy make it as fun as exploiting things was.
Thanks for admitiing it in the open. It was just as i thought.
No only did pro wipers exploit and ruined the gameplay for many of us who did not. Now they demand a server wipe on top and shit on the legit players a second time !
What are chances you min maxers and insta gratification kiddies do not exploit again ? on the slightest sign of a bug you will jump on the oppurtunity to exploit and cheat ! If they wipe this time they have to wipe every often and randomnly so you never have a chance to max your chars by exploiting !
You're wrong cuz if the current 2.0 feature on paper are accurate, being maxed wont be an advantage.
1st of all, most passive skills, specially for the defence and magics will be removed. These skills/spells are mostly the reason you had to macro to keep up because it wasnt possible to get them high enough with natural gameplay.
The gear set you will equip will determine your role. For example, an heavy warrior set will allow you to cast lesser and greater magics only. Only naked players wont be limited(Naked hybrids), but they wont gain any form of boost either.
Unless you go naked, the more different peace equipment class you will want to equip, the more limited you will become. A pure will be the best choice at the end. This mean that maximizing your character will just become an achiement, to have more option of play style before you get away from the bank or just to waste your time if you're only gonna play with 1 playstyle most of the time.
At the end, maxers will remain maxers. Mini maxers will become 1 maxed class. Those who enjoy grinding and who seek the challenge at the same time will become naked hybrids.
I think that if you like the game, you will get over a wipe.
There are a sizable group of players who don't have legit characters. It doesn't matter if you've played for three years or three days. You should be able to recognize this fact. You must play a lot, for a very long time, to be able to be competitive with these characters. What would wiping do in the long run, ask yourself that question. It would even the playing field, this is assuming AV has figured out a way to lessen the time needed to be competitive. Even if they wiped all player vaults in the game, what would that really do? Nothing really. The best players are still going to have an advantage with knowledge. Ultimately, I think it comes down to this.
Do you want Darkfall with 2,000 subscriptions?
Or
Do you want Darkfall with 20,000 subscriptions, or more?
There really is only one choice here for AV. They can beat their head against a wall and continue to lose players. Or they can take a risk and have a chance at actually making some profit on their investment. That profit, by the way, will probably turn into some enhancements for the game.
Does a wipe sound good in general? No, of course not. But, you really need to take a step back and remove the AV bias from the equation.
A wipe in DF is a good thing. Every single player that played it for more than a month has exploited in someway to a varying degree. Why whinge about it since keeping old toons is going to result in the same low pop anyway. Exploited max skill chars 1v10'ing people makes people quit, not hard too see that isnt a good thing if you actually want the game to succeed.
So you a exploiter ? because if you ever have been in game you must have exploited according to your statement.
If you exploited and you played on and off you with those pople who have
1) exploited
2) don't supported DF with a continouusly subscription all the 3 years
but nevertheless you demand a
3) wipe
= Exploiters are also within those who want to wipe.
How are chances those exploiters don't cheat again in DF 2.0 ?
Yeah myself, my entire clan, my entire alliance and the vast majority of rival clans exploited various mobs to macro on. I would afk macro on mobs for days at a time while not even being at home. There was a constant flow of people afk'ing at spawns and people protecting the afkers. Rival clans/alliances would come to the exploitable spawns to kill our guys to take their reagents so they could claim the spawn as their own and afk macro on them. Why did people go to such lengths to cheat? Because 99% of the server was doing it in one form or another and you and your clan didnt stand a chance in hell if you didnt. I think we exploited one particular minotaur spawn for months before anything official was done about it. Looking back though, it was a kinda 'sandbox feature' that the players created for themselves, you cant image the in game wars and forum wars surrounding such events, it was actually pretty fun.
Hopefully AV learns for this and puts in systems to not only prevent this type of thing but actualy make it as fun as exploiting things was.
Thanks for admitiing it in the open. It was just as i thought.
No only did pro wipers exploit and ruined the gameplay for many of us who did not. Now they demand a server wipe on top and shit on the legit players a second time !
What are chances you min maxers and insta gratification kiddies do not exploit again ? on the slightest sign of a bug you will jump on the oppurtunity to exploit and cheat ! If they wipe this time they have to wipe every often and randomnly so you never have a chance to max your chars by exploiting !
What if it doesn't take you a year to become viable in a legit way? I can see your anger now, but what if it takes three months of playing to be at the 'end-game'? Everyone around you will be doing the same thing. Equipment restricting skills and spells is a decent solution. It will require you, in most cases, to focus on a small set of skills rather than be highly skilled in everything to succeed. That will lessen the grind significantly.
A wipe in DF is a good thing. Every single player that played it for more than a month has exploited in someway to a varying degree. Why whinge about it since keeping old toons is going to result in the same low pop anyway. Exploited max skill chars 1v10'ing people makes people quit, not hard too see that isnt a good thing if you actually want the game to succeed.
So you a exploiter ? because if you ever have been in game you must have exploited according to your statement.
If you exploited and you played on and off you with those pople who have
1) exploited
2) don't supported DF with a continouusly subscription all the 3 years
but nevertheless you demand a
3) wipe
= Exploiters are also within those who want to wipe.
How are chances those exploiters don't cheat again in DF 2.0 ?
Yeah myself, my entire clan, my entire alliance and the vast majority of rival clans exploited various mobs to macro on. I would afk macro on mobs for days at a time while not even being at home. There was a constant flow of people afk'ing at spawns and people protecting the afkers. Rival clans/alliances would come to the exploitable spawns to kill our guys to take their reagents so they could claim the spawn as their own and afk macro on them. Why did people go to such lengths to cheat? Because 99% of the server was doing it in one form or another and you and your clan didnt stand a chance in hell if you didnt. I think we exploited one particular minotaur spawn for months before anything official was done about it. Looking back though, it was a kinda 'sandbox feature' that the players created for themselves, you cant image the in game wars and forum wars surrounding such events, it was actually pretty fun.
Hopefully AV learns for this and puts in systems to not only prevent this type of thing but actualy make it as fun as exploiting things was.
Thanks for admitiing it in the open. It was just as i thought.
No only did pro wipers exploit and ruined the gameplay for many of us who did not. Now they demand a server wipe on top and shit on the legit players a second time !
What are chances you min maxers and insta gratification kiddies do not exploit again ? on the slightest sign of a bug you will jump on the oppurtunity to exploit and cheat ! If they wipe this time they have to wipe every often and randomnly so you never have a chance to max your chars by exploiting !
What if it doesn't take you a year to become viable in a legit way? I can see your anger now, but what if it takes three months of playing to be at the 'end-game'? Everyone around you will be doing the same thing. Equipment restricting skills and spells is a decent solution. It will require you, in most cases, to focus on a small set of skills rather than be highly skilled in everything to succeed. That will lessen the grind significantly.
How is that related to the discussion you quoted ?
Exploiters are within pro wipers. They exploited, got bored ,left and now they want to see my invested playtime nullified because they feel like they will be behind rejoining years later.
Its a MMORPG, you WILL be behind if you join 3 years later then those who started and play constinuously for 3 years. YOu CAN'T demand to have same like vets of a game joining 3 years later.
It is shocking how so few people see the inopportuneness in what they demand here.
About you "reduced time" at 3 months to max, why not. The end game talk is not very sandboxy but if they allow for just few skills being allowed active and many much more obtainable no problem there. I think thats what they try to achieve with their armor spec and prestge stat system . D'accord with it.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Just so you know nothing in the EULA of any game guarantees your character all it does is guarantee you're able to play the game. AV is dammed if they do and dammed if they dont here.
Just so you know nothing in the EULA of any game guarantees your character all it does is guarantee you're able to play the game. AV is dammed if they do and dammed if they dont here.
Wanna enter the discussion of legally vs morally ?
What may be legal (whats not even ensured since they HAVE TO store your progress and keep a copy) can be and is immoral in this case. Its a unwritten MMORPG law that you dont even change the gamemachnics too much (NGE) let alone wipe (Darkfall).
Its a bahaviour worser then being trash in this society. Is like to piss at someones documents he worked for years (example diploma thesis). To come with a bulldozer and destroy someones home so you make someone homeless.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
A wipe in DF is a good thing. Every single player that played it for more than a month has exploited in someway to a varying degree. Why whinge about it since keeping old toons is going to result in the same low pop anyway. Exploited max skill chars 1v10'ing people makes people quit, not hard too see that isnt a good thing if you actually want the game to succeed.
So you a exploiter ? because if you ever have been in game you must have exploited according to your statement.
If you exploited and you played on and off you with those pople who have
1) exploited
2) don't supported DF with a continouusly subscription all the 3 years
but nevertheless you demand a
3) wipe
= Exploiters are also within those who want to wipe.
How are chances those exploiters don't cheat again in DF 2.0 ?
Yeah myself, my entire clan, my entire alliance and the vast majority of rival clans exploited various mobs to macro on. I would afk macro on mobs for days at a time while not even being at home. There was a constant flow of people afk'ing at spawns and people protecting the afkers. Rival clans/alliances would come to the exploitable spawns to kill our guys to take their reagents so they could claim the spawn as their own and afk macro on them. Why did people go to such lengths to cheat? Because 99% of the server was doing it in one form or another and you and your clan didnt stand a chance in hell if you didnt. I think we exploited one particular minotaur spawn for months before anything official was done about it. Looking back though, it was a kinda 'sandbox feature' that the players created for themselves, you cant image the in game wars and forum wars surrounding such events, it was actually pretty fun.
Hopefully AV learns for this and puts in systems to not only prevent this type of thing but actualy make it as fun as exploiting things was.
Thanks for admitiing it in the open. It was just as i thought.
No only did pro wipers exploit and ruined the gameplay for many of us who did not. Now they demand a server wipe on top and shit on the legit players a second time !
What are chances you min maxers and insta gratification kiddies do not exploit again ? on the slightest sign of a bug you will jump on the oppurtunity to exploit and cheat ! If they wipe this time they have to wipe every often and randomnly so you never have a chance to max your chars by exploiting !
What if it doesn't take you a year to become viable in a legit way? I can see your anger now, but what if it takes three months of playing to be at the 'end-game'? Everyone around you will be doing the same thing. Equipment restricting skills and spells is a decent solution. It will require you, in most cases, to focus on a small set of skills rather than be highly skilled in everything to succeed. That will lessen the grind significantly.
How is that related to the discussion you quoted ?
Exploiters are within pro wipers. They exploited, got bored ,left and now they want to see my invested playtime nullified because they feel like they will be behind rejoining years later.
Its a MMORPG, you WILL be behind if you join 3 years later then those who started and play constinuously for 3 years. YOu CAN'T demand to have same like vets of a game joining 3 years later.
It is shocking how so few people see the inopportuneness in what they demand here.
About you "reduced time" at 3 months to max, why not. The end game talk is not very sandboxy but if they allow for just few skills being allowed active and many much more obtainable no problem there. I think thats what they try to achieve with their armor spec and prestge stat system . D'accord with it.
The maxed players probably left the game, but the maxed characters are still in DF. They sell the maxed character for like 200-500 real life money. A lot of them easily get sold out.
Funny thing is, you dont seem to get that it only takes 2-3 years to catch up a vet for a legit player(For a full legit, its impossible, thats the truth) You have to be a cheater to catch up in a year. DF is a game full of cheaters and sold characters nowadays.
I know cuz i was one of these cheaters. I exploited the bugged mobs for months, almost a year to catch up to a vet. I got banned twice. 1 more ban and i was permanently banned. Did i stop exploiting because of these bans? No, cuz otherwise, i'd remain nothing for ever.
Just so you know nothing in the EULA of any game guarantees your character all it does is guarantee you're able to play the game. AV is dammed if they do and dammed if they dont here.
Wanna enter the discussion of legally vs morally ?
What may be legal (whats not even ensured since they HAVE TO store your progress and keep a copy) can be and is immoral in this case. Its a unwritten MMORPG law that you dont even change the gamemachnics too much (NGE) let alone wipe (Darkfall).
Its a bahaviour worser then being trash in this society. Is like to piss at someones documents he worked for years (example diploma thesis). To come with a bulldozer and destroy someones home so you make someone homeless.
Since months now they didn't clear this up for their customers and last official quote speaks about "both sides on the matter".
I wonder who the other side is if one side is that of a paying subscriber and customer.
To get sure and stay on the safe site the best is to assume that AV won't respect you investment and won't respect you as customer and will wipe your achievement when they switch to DF 20 without any compensation. The lack of information and ignore of repeated request from the community strongly indicates this.
Be warned.
As a former Darkfall player all I can see AV moving towards is a full relaunch of the game. This means in no uncertain terms and regardless of their pussyfooting around that there will be a wipe. I assume there will be some form of compensation to those players that lose skills, items, etc. to the wipe, but much of the new system does not even sound the same as the original (modifying spell schools, new spells added, old removed, etc.).
They should just wipe and start out brand new with some perks provided to those who were previously customers. Or they could launch 2.0 while leaving 1.0 up and running. They could have a "Legacy" server with 2.0 where the characters are essentially unwiped, etc. There's a ton of various possibilities on how this could go down, but I think it's inevitably with some form of wipe.
Sadly it does not matter if this is the right, wrong, left right, up, down, neutral, or sideways thing to do to its existing customer base. 2.0 is a new game and needs to start fresh. Some of the options I mentioned may work, but the wipe's coming.
Comments
Wiping is still too much.revamping the mechanics and not have you have your skills maxed out like you had before is fine (say you get 75% of max or so), that happens in other games when they make an expansion anyways.
But wiping someones character is not smart, people love their characters and wiping them because "you probably cheated anyways" is not a good reason.
So you a exploiter ? because if you ever have been in game you must have exploited according to your statement.
If you exploited and you played on and off you with those pople who have
1) exploited
2) don't supported DF with a continouusly subscription all the 3 years
but nevertheless you demand a
3) wipe
= Exploiters are also within those who want to wipe.
How are chances those exploiters don't cheat again in DF 2.0 ?
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Naw, their best move is to release DF 2.0 on a entirely new server in order to take advantage of more modern infrastructure and allow those who wish to play under the old mechanics to do so.
If people wish to start over on the new server more power to them.
(and yes, I do realize that such a move would likely kill the old server, but hey, you can't really kill that which is already dead)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Its not the matter of 'old mechanics' (or just only for some current subscriber). Regarding the wipe its the fair_compensation for our invested time.
best would be, same functuionality in "DF 2.0" and DF stay preserved. They don't change everything, in last announcements we heard so many things that sound familiar ..several existing magic lines, fire, water for example, many ships and in alst update they mentioned "ship crafter" and "ship crafting mastery" so its not all to newish a´nd it exists in current game.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Ouch, never use the word "fair", nothing in life is fair, the least of which being PVP centric MMO's.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
they still have to release the DF 2010 patch.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
...andt in strange eons even death may die?
Yeah, you are right. But I think tey fear that it would lead to 2 almost empty servers instead of 1 with medium load.
Well, many games reset the playing field every so often. I don't get the notion of being entitled to a 3 year advantage just because you played longer. At some point it gets out of whack. I would look at is like this. "Hey, I played for 3 years and dominated. Time to start over and see if I can dominate the next 3 years."
Again, many MMO's even the playing field every so often. Either via expansions that require re-leveling and regearing or a cap which eventually lets newer players catch up to older players.
I just find it a bit selfish for old veterans in games to never let newer players have a chance of catching up.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Any examples ?
the one i know which was Shadowbane ..which is dead.
the other which is WWIIOnline. Which
doesn't have
a) crafting and building and
b) dont reset any "char progression" (even it hasnt any char progression in RPG sense but it doesn't delete progress either)
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Well, I said reset playing field OR skill cap. Tons and tons of games have a skill cap easily reached within a few months if not quicker (e.g., WoW, Rift, GW2, even Mortal Online). As for resetting playing field, you need look no further than WoW. Game is essentially reset every expansion so that would be what, 4 times now? People didn't seem to rage quit WoW whenever they reset the cap and gear making even the epicest of epic RAID loot obsolete from a quest green in the next expansion.
Obviously if you play DF you aren't going to be switching to a thempark but I can't think of too many games that make it nearly impossible for a noob to catch up within a year. DF and EVE being the only 2 I can think of actually. But I've only played around 20 or so MMO's so clearly I haven't played them all.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
DF is just one of those games that never lived up to expectations and now suffers from an identity crisis. I only played this game on and off for a total of about a year, so I never really felt invested as the current player-base. They are the ones that will in the end determine the outcome of this change. As a player like myself won't see this new version of DF to be enough to long term subscribe to.
The only hope here is they bring in enough new players to compensate for the current players they will loose and alienate with this. And even then what would be the point of going through all this work implementing so many changes only to break even at the end.
AV never really has been known to make stellar choices regarding their business model, but hey maybe it'll will all work out for them this time.
Everquest didn't do that when they brought out Everquest 2, and Everquest 1 is still around (somewhat).
Since they are starting over they would not want to transfer old characters over.
One - being that possible errors that were involved in spells and other things that wouldn't trasfer over very well.
Two - it's a new game, they want new people to come to the game and having characters already developed way beyond these new players isn't fair to them. Plus with how ganking was prominent in Darkfall wouldn't be a good business move.
Three - People were macroing skill gains anyways in that game (not everyone of course but I witnessed a lot of it) so it's not hard for you to regain your lost skills or go a different route. New game more fun, same feel as to old one probably.
Look I had a blast with Darkfall. I had an optimum experience. I found a nice little village out on an island with good resource gathering, I experienced the best the system has to offer, etc.
Darkfall is a broken game in so many ways. Progression, magic, skills, UI, etc. are all huge downsides. There is simply no way to make a good Darkfall 2.0 and transfer these horrible systems.
I have a char still with probably 200 loot bags each with a full set of equipment ready to PvP, I have maxed archery and a couple melee skills and some schools of magic.
They have to wipe this. If they don't I won't come back and I bet I have more to lose than almost any crybaby running around on forums.
Wipe it, get DF 2.0 out this year, and I will be back in a heart beat. I had some of my best MMO experiences in this horribly broken game and if they fix what they know is wrong and have said they are fixing it will be a beast of a sandbox MMO. A wipe has to happen, or a simply character name and possible bank transfer but all things skill system need to be wiped and a new non mindless grind progression has to be added for the company and the game to succeed.
So you a exploiter ? because if you ever have been in game you must have exploited according to your statement.
If you exploited and you played on and off you with those pople who have
1) exploited
2) don't supported DF with a continouusly subscription all the 3 years
but nevertheless you demand a
3) wipe
= Exploiters are also within those who want to wipe.
How are chances those exploiters don't cheat again in DF 2.0 ?
Yeah myself, my entire clan, my entire alliance and the vast majority of rival clans exploited various mobs to macro on. I would afk macro on mobs for days at a time while not even being at home. There was a constant flow of people afk'ing at spawns and people protecting the afkers. Rival clans/alliances would come to the exploitable spawns to kill our guys to take their reagents so they could claim the spawn as their own and afk macro on them. Why did people go to such lengths to cheat? Because 99% of the server was doing it in one form or another and you and your clan didnt stand a chance in hell if you didnt. I think we exploited one particular minotaur spawn for months before anything official was done about it. Looking back though, it was a kinda 'sandbox feature' that the players created for themselves, you cant image the in game wars and forum wars surrounding such events, it was actually pretty fun.
Hopefully AV learns for this and puts in systems to not only prevent this type of thing but actualy make it as fun as exploiting things was.
If you run macro's on a game for months on months did you at ANY point think.....what is the point of the game if I am not playing it?
Essentially when I read this I think...so you spent 4 months not playing the game so you could then play on a level playing field with all the other macro'ers when you could have simply installed any FPS game out there and INSTANTLY got the same-level gameplay you wanted.
I...just...don't...get....some...people
Thanks for admitiing it in the open. It was just as i thought.
No only did pro wipers exploit and ruined the gameplay for many of us who did not. Now they demand a server wipe on top and shit on the legit players a second time !
What are chances you min maxers and insta gratification kiddies do not exploit again ? on the slightest sign of a bug you will jump on the oppurtunity to exploit and cheat ! If they wipe this time they have to wipe every often and randomnly so you never have a chance to max your chars by exploiting !
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
You're wrong cuz if the current 2.0 feature on paper are accurate, being maxed wont be an advantage.
1st of all, most passive skills, specially for the defence and magics will be removed. These skills/spells are mostly the reason you had to macro to keep up because it wasnt possible to get them high enough with natural gameplay.
The gear set you will equip will determine your role. For example, an heavy warrior set will allow you to cast lesser and greater magics only. Only naked players wont be limited(Naked hybrids), but they wont gain any form of boost either.
Unless you go naked, the more different peace equipment class you will want to equip, the more limited you will become. A pure will be the best choice at the end. This mean that maximizing your character will just become an achiement, to have more option of play style before you get away from the bank or just to waste your time if you're only gonna play with 1 playstyle most of the time.
At the end, maxers will remain maxers. Mini maxers will become 1 maxed class. Those who enjoy grinding and who seek the challenge at the same time will become naked hybrids.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
I think that if you like the game, you will get over a wipe.
There are a sizable group of players who don't have legit characters. It doesn't matter if you've played for three years or three days. You should be able to recognize this fact. You must play a lot, for a very long time, to be able to be competitive with these characters. What would wiping do in the long run, ask yourself that question. It would even the playing field, this is assuming AV has figured out a way to lessen the time needed to be competitive. Even if they wiped all player vaults in the game, what would that really do? Nothing really. The best players are still going to have an advantage with knowledge. Ultimately, I think it comes down to this.
Do you want Darkfall with 2,000 subscriptions?
Or
Do you want Darkfall with 20,000 subscriptions, or more?
There really is only one choice here for AV. They can beat their head against a wall and continue to lose players. Or they can take a risk and have a chance at actually making some profit on their investment. That profit, by the way, will probably turn into some enhancements for the game.
Does a wipe sound good in general? No, of course not. But, you really need to take a step back and remove the AV bias from the equation.
What if it doesn't take you a year to become viable in a legit way? I can see your anger now, but what if it takes three months of playing to be at the 'end-game'? Everyone around you will be doing the same thing. Equipment restricting skills and spells is a decent solution. It will require you, in most cases, to focus on a small set of skills rather than be highly skilled in everything to succeed. That will lessen the grind significantly.
How is that related to the discussion you quoted ?
Exploiters are within pro wipers. They exploited, got bored ,left and now they want to see my invested playtime nullified because they feel like they will be behind rejoining years later.
Its a MMORPG, you WILL be behind if you join 3 years later then those who started and play constinuously for 3 years. YOu CAN'T demand to have same like vets of a game joining 3 years later.
It is shocking how so few people see the inopportuneness in what they demand here.
About you "reduced time" at 3 months to max, why not. The end game talk is not very sandboxy but if they allow for just few skills being allowed active and many much more obtainable no problem there. I think thats what they try to achieve with their armor spec and prestge stat system . D'accord with it.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Just so you know nothing in the EULA of any game guarantees your character all it does is guarantee you're able to play the game. AV is dammed if they do and dammed if they dont here.
Wanna enter the discussion of legally vs morally ?
What may be legal (whats not even ensured since they HAVE TO store your progress and keep a copy) can be and is immoral in this case. Its a unwritten MMORPG law that you dont even change the gamemachnics too much (NGE) let alone wipe (Darkfall).
Its a bahaviour worser then being trash in this society. Is like to piss at someones documents he worked for years (example diploma thesis). To come with a bulldozer and destroy someones home so you make someone homeless.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
The maxed players probably left the game, but the maxed characters are still in DF. They sell the maxed character for like 200-500 real life money. A lot of them easily get sold out.
Funny thing is, you dont seem to get that it only takes 2-3 years to catch up a vet for a legit player(For a full legit, its impossible, thats the truth) You have to be a cheater to catch up in a year. DF is a game full of cheaters and sold characters nowadays.
I know cuz i was one of these cheaters. I exploited the bugged mobs for months, almost a year to catch up to a vet. I got banned twice. 1 more ban and i was permanently banned. Did i stop exploiting because of these bans? No, cuz otherwise, i'd remain nothing for ever.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
Don't get started with that.
Hey guys, lets discuss the TOS.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
As a former Darkfall player all I can see AV moving towards is a full relaunch of the game. This means in no uncertain terms and regardless of their pussyfooting around that there will be a wipe. I assume there will be some form of compensation to those players that lose skills, items, etc. to the wipe, but much of the new system does not even sound the same as the original (modifying spell schools, new spells added, old removed, etc.).
They should just wipe and start out brand new with some perks provided to those who were previously customers. Or they could launch 2.0 while leaving 1.0 up and running. They could have a "Legacy" server with 2.0 where the characters are essentially unwiped, etc. There's a ton of various possibilities on how this could go down, but I think it's inevitably with some form of wipe.
Sadly it does not matter if this is the right, wrong, left right, up, down, neutral, or sideways thing to do to its existing customer base. 2.0 is a new game and needs to start fresh. Some of the options I mentioned may work, but the wipe's coming.
Steam: Neph