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PvE players: large scale PvP more tolerable?

MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,556Member Uncommon

As a PvE player almost exclusively I was wondering what other PvE players find to be the more tolerable form of PvP.  I definitely feel that PvP with a larger purpose would appeal more to the PvE player rather than arenas and e sport PvP.

 

If what I suspect is true, why do developers continue to focus so much on E Sport/Arena style PvP when they could possible grab a more significant piece of the pie with more focus on large scale PvP?

 

  I could even so myself subing to a Shadowbane type game if there was a large common goal to work towards rather than killing each other over and over for nothing.  Do you think GW2 would fill this Shawdowbane type void?

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Comments

  • tixylixtixylix gfff, TNPosts: 1,208Member Uncommon

    I don't understand why people cannot like PVP other than they find it too hard to fight against anything other than dumb A.I. Just make a group with friends, turn off local chat, turn on mics and have a blast with mates killing other players which is much harder, challenging and more rewarding than any A.I I've played against in any game.

  • Master10KMaster10K LondonPosts: 3,065Member

    Yeah I do think for PvE players, a lot of them, can only find good large-scale PvP to be tolerable or even actually fun. It reminds me of my guild in Rift. We were pretty much a progression raiding guild and a lot of them never really touched the PvP in that game (even though we were on a PvP server). Then one night our raid was called off and about a dozen of us were just there with nothing to do. So we started doing Raid Rifts, until the enemy faction crashed the party and it escalated into some large-scale, really fun, open world PvP.

     

    Give PvE'ers a way to experience large-scale PvP that requires tactical play, rather than individual player skills and make it accessible. Chances are they will enjoy it, especially if there's something to gain. That is what I see with Guild Wars 2's World v World. Just today I watched TotalBiscuit's Mailbox, which had some WvW in the background, which really shows  how easy it is to get together with some people and the potential of having fun. Also players are "fighting for their server", so I do see some PvE'ers getting stuck in some of that PvP, even if it's just to see what it's like.

    image

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon

    Giving PvP more meaning than just a ranking on a ladder is what many PvP players want also (myself included).  It's simply not what's popular right now.

    World PvP is not always fair and balanced, it's unpredictable and some battles are a slaughter.  Players can't handle that, they want to win most of the time and get shiney items for it.

    No, I don't think GW2 will do anything to change this paradigm.  They'll have arenas and battlegrounds the same as almost everyone else.

    ArcheAge might be able to break this mold but it's a long way off.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • ElderRatElderRat Syracuse, NYPosts: 899Member

    Originally posted by Mardukk

    As a PvE player almost exclusively I was wondering what other PvE players find to be the more tolerable form of PvP.  I definitely feel that PvP with a larger purpose would appeal more to the PvE player rather than arenas and e sport PvP.

     

    If what I suspect is true, why do developers continue to focus so much on E Sport/Arena style PvP when they could possible grab a more significant piece of the pie with more focus on large scale PvP?

     

      I could even so myself subing to a Shadowbane type game if there was a large common goal to work towards rather than killing each other over and over for nothing.  Do you think GW2 would fill this Shawdowbane type void?

    The only games I have found that were Shadowbane like(And yes I played SB and loved it) were darkfall and Mortal Online. MO had too many problems.. not sure if it changed - my initial impression was so bad I will never go back.  Darkfall's graphics depressed me,  sorry to the fans of that game but I was turned off by that.  Try those 2 and see if you like them.  Edit I like the PvP in EVE, there are areas which are safer... not completely but you can choose, in a sense how much PvP you want.

    Currently bored with MMO's.

  • UsualSuspectUsualSuspect CardiffPosts: 1,243Member

    The only PvP I like in MMO's are the kind where gear doesn't matter. Once play devolves to Player A being better than Player B because he has the Awesome Sword of Destruction, then I'm simply not interested. PvP should be equal skill, not be about who has the better stats. So a game like Planetside suits me just fine, whereas PvP in something like WoW or TOR just isn't something I'll even go near.

  • JimmydeanJimmydean Ypsilanti, MIPosts: 1,270Member

    Originally posted by UsualSuspect

    The only PvP I like in MMO's are the kind where gear doesn't matter. Once play devolves to Player A being better than Player B because he has the Awesome Sword of Destruction, then I'm simply not interested. PvP should be equal skill, not be about who has the better stats. So a game like Planetside suits me just fine, whereas PvP in something like WoW or TOR just isn't something I'll even go near.

    I agree. As a PVE player, the thing that turns me off from PVP is the PVP gear grind. I like PVE, so I'll grind the gear there. If I want to PVP, I'll go play Call of Duty or something, where  I can turn it on and not be at a complete and utter disadvantage. That is what is not fun about PVP in MMORPGs.

    I did enjoy myself in Warhammer Online's pvp though. You didn't level in PVE then jump into PVP at max level. You leveled with PVP, geared in PVP, and progressed in PVP.

  • KholeKhole Irmo, SCPosts: 136Member Common

    Large scale pvp is fun till it becomes which ever side has the most aoe wins.

     

  • VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member

    I think definately, large scale PvP is a lot less daunting for players that tend to avoid PvP altogether.  Assuming it's pretty open, and players can just show up and dive in, fighting alongside their faction.  There's a lot less pressure to do well, and it's easier to just have fun with it, when you're just one person on a massive chaotic team, instead of one member of a small balanced team.

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,205Member Uncommon

    I don't mind pvp if I can flag.  If I feel like doing it then I'm there, if not then I'm not.  I don't care if it is happening overland or in war fronts (instances) as long as I have a choice.  I spent my first yers of MMO gaming in Lineage and loved it, but I'm not very interested in what today's pvp offers and how pvp has changed from an rpg / resource competition to e-sports and ffa gankfests.

  • Master10KMaster10K LondonPosts: 3,065Member

    Originally posted by Vhaln

    I think definately, large scale PvP is a lot less daunting for players that tend to avoid PvP altogether.  Assuming it's pretty open, and players can just show up and dive in, fighting alongside their faction.  There's a lot less pressure to do well, and it's easier to just have fun with it, when you're just one person on a massive chaotic team, instead of one member of a small balanced team.

    Pretty much echo'd my point. image

    image

  • zakiyawowzakiyawow Boston, MAPosts: 626Member Common

    Originally posted by tixylix

    I don't understand why people cannot like PVP other than they find it too hard to fight against anything other than dumb A.I. Just make a group with friends, turn off local chat, turn on mics and have a blast with mates killing other players which is much harder, challenging and more rewarding than any A.I I've played against in any game.

    I can't understand why people even bother watching sports. You know the end result will be one team that wins.

    I also can't understand why people watch moveis since you all know its fake.

    Nor can I understand why people perfer certain type of food since you get full eating any food.

     

    Its called perferences.

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member

    The only way PvP will ever be appealing to me, is if it's done with level restrictions, to avoid a max level player attacking a player much lower than themselves. Give them a level bracket of lets say 2 - 4 levels?

  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,556Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tixylix

    I don't understand why people cannot like PVP other than they find it too hard to fight against anything other than dumb A.I. Just make a group with friends, turn off local chat, turn on mics and have a blast with mates killing other players which is much harder, challenging and more rewarding than any A.I I've played against in any game.

     


    While it may be rewarding when you win I feel the losses to outweigh the good feeling from a win. I like to push the limits of what is soloable in mmos which likely takes the place of any pvp challenge needed.
  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYPosts: 2,211Member

    PvP in modern MMOs is just fps/moba arena's tacked on that have 0 effect on the rest of the MMO. Even the gear used and gained is not related to anything else. Why not just play LoL or CoD if you want matchmaking based PvP?

  • eyeswideopeneyeswideopen Fresno, CAPosts: 2,414Member

    Originally posted by tixylix

    I don't understand why people cannot like PVP other than they find it too hard to fight against anything other than dumb A.I. Just make a group with friends, turn off local chat, turn on mics and have a blast with mates killing other players which is much harder, challenging and more rewarding than any A.I I've played against in any game.

    I don't understand why people like to PvP other than they can't fight in real life, thus they need to be in a  virtual world where they can "kill" other people's pixels without getting their ass physically handed to them.

     

    Just sayin'.

    Signed, a PvE'er.

    -Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
    -And on the 8th day, man created God.-

  • EcocesEcoces Chicago, ILPosts: 879Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    I don't mind pvp if I can flag.  If I feel like doing it then I'm there, if not then I'm not.  I don't care if it is happening overland or in war fronts (instances) as long as I have a choice.  I spent my first yers of MMO gaming in Lineage and loved it, but I'm not very interested in what today's pvp offers and how pvp has changed from an rpg / resource competition to e-sports and ffa gankfests.

    i think this is the general attitude that a lot of MMO players have ... i am completely with you. I PVP all the time and am very competitive in it but it has to be ON MY TERMS or when i want. I will never touch a game like Darkfall or any other game with Open PVP, because i don't get the "high" when i have to watch my back every minute i log into the game. it just gets annoying and i quit very quickly.

     

    the first sandbox game that the devs pull their heads from their rear and realize this and stop forcing open PVP on me I will be subscribed to for a long time.

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by eyeswideopen

    Originally posted by tixylix

    I don't understand why people cannot like PVP other than they find it too hard to fight against anything other than dumb A.I. Just make a group with friends, turn off local chat, turn on mics and have a blast with mates killing other players which is much harder, challenging and more rewarding than any A.I I've played against in any game.

    I don't understand why people like to PvP other than they can't fight in real life, thus they need to be in a  virtual world where they can "kill" other people's pixels without getting their ass physically handed to them.

     

    Just sayin'.

    Signed, a PvE'er.

    Do you actually believe the non-sense you spout?

    Let me guess, next you're going to be telling us that PvP players are sociopaths and secretly fantasize about torturing and killing people in real life.

     

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member

    Originally posted by dave6660

    Originally posted by eyeswideopen


    Originally posted by tixylix

    I don't understand why people cannot like PVP other than they find it too hard to fight against anything other than dumb A.I. Just make a group with friends, turn off local chat, turn on mics and have a blast with mates killing other players which is much harder, challenging and more rewarding than any A.I I've played against in any game.

    I don't understand why people like to PvP other than they can't fight in real life, thus they need to be in a  virtual world where they can "kill" other people's pixels without getting their ass physically handed to them.

     

    Just sayin'.

    Signed, a PvE'er.

    Do you actually believe the non-sense you spout?

    Let me guess, next you're going to be telling us that PvP players are sociopaths and secretly fantasize about torturing and killing people in real life.

     

    I don't think he was being serious. At least I hope not for his sake

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Starpower

    Originally posted by dave6660


    Originally posted by eyeswideopen


    Originally posted by tixylix

    I don't understand why people cannot like PVP other than they find it too hard to fight against anything other than dumb A.I. Just make a group with friends, turn off local chat, turn on mics and have a blast with mates killing other players which is much harder, challenging and more rewarding than any A.I I've played against in any game.

    I don't understand why people like to PvP other than they can't fight in real life, thus they need to be in a  virtual world where they can "kill" other people's pixels without getting their ass physically handed to them.

     

    Just sayin'.

    Signed, a PvE'er.

    Do you actually believe the non-sense you spout?

    Let me guess, next you're going to be telling us that PvP players are sociopaths and secretly fantasize about torturing and killing people in real life.

     

    I don't think he was being serious. At least I hope not for his sake

    Normally I would think that was sarcasm until I've read people making that argument with dead serious conviction.  

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,724Member Uncommon

    I only PVE in MMORPGs because MMORPG PVP sucks.

    Esports-style PVP in MMORPGs is actually the least sucky type of PVP you can find in an MMORPG, because skill is more meaningful.  The amount of non-skill factors ruining MMORPG PVP is at its lowest in arenas, and at its highest in large-scale world PVP (unless the large-scale PVP was population-balanced, which would be about the same as arena PVP.)

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYPosts: 2,211Member

    Originally posted by Axehilt

    I only PVE in MMORPGs because MMORPG PVP sucks.

    Esports-style PVP in MMORPGs is actually the least sucky type of PVP you can find in an MMORPG, because skill is more meaningful.  The amount of non-skill factors ruining MMORPG PVP is at its lowest in arenas, and at its highest in large-scale world PVP (unless the large-scale PVP was population-balanced, which would be about the same as arena PVP.)

    Another n00b that doesn't understand that RPGs are about character skill.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member

    im a PVP player

    I find large scale PVP most tolerable

    I have no love for e"sport" type pvp in mmos, its pointless and substandard compared to the small scale PVP experience in FPS, RTS or MOBAs.  I really really dont get why pvpers pay a subscription fee to sit in a tuperware box all day grinding for PVP sets when they could be playing a FPS or RTS for free and have inheriently more of this "balance" thing that seems so important to this kind of PVPer.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member

    Originally posted by eyeswideopen

    Originally posted by tixylix

    I don't understand why people cannot like PVP other than they find it too hard to fight against anything other than dumb A.I. Just make a group with friends, turn off local chat, turn on mics and have a blast with mates killing other players which is much harder, challenging and more rewarding than any A.I I've played against in any game.

    I don't understand why people like to PvP other than they can't fight in real life, thus they need to be in a  virtual world where they can "kill" other people's pixels without getting their ass physically handed to them.

     

    Just sayin'.

    Signed, a PvE'er.

    I dont understand why people like to PVE progress other than in real life they perhaps have sucky or no job and probably no girlfriend, but the chance to acheive at following a script from some webpage with 39 other people lets them stand around showing off their shinnies to give them that sense of acheivment.

     

    see what I did there mr amateur psycholgist.

  • UsualSuspectUsualSuspect CardiffPosts: 1,243Member

    Originally posted by ShakyMo

    see what I did there mr amateur psycholgist.

    I see what you did there. Very clever. Well played sir, well played. Might I subscribe to your newsletter?

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,724Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Cuathon

    Another n00b that doesn't understand that RPGs are about character skill.

    RPGs have never been wholly about player skill, and over the years the RPGs which involve the best tactical mid-fight decisionmaking have been considered some of the best RPGs around.

    An RPG can still be alright with a terrible combat system, but a great combat system makes games far more enjoyable.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

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