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Lead PvP designer discuss PvP in SWTOR

TealaTeala SomewherePosts: 7,430Member Uncommon

Is it any wonder that the PvP in this game is in such bad shape?  Watch this video and listen  to the guy in charge.

PvP Lead  Design Interview  <<< clicky

At 5:07 in the video he discusses kill trading.  Sad.

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Comments

  • phantomghostphantomghost Atlanta, GAPosts: 692Member Uncommon

    Yeah, I don't know.  I looked at how they came up with the greatest UI EVER!  And I am still wondering WTF they are thinking?

    photo SIG_zpszteuyd0ejpg
  • NaughtyPNaughtyP Edmonton, ABPosts: 793Member

    Pretty weird that their official stance is "it doesn't really matter".

    Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  • MosesZDMosesZD Kirkwood, MOPosts: 1,383Member

    I wonder if any of these BioWare employees ever played an MMO that PvP...   

  • KakkzookaKakkzooka Waterbury, CTPosts: 591Member

    Originally posted by NaughtyP

    Pretty weird that their official stance is "it doesn't really matter".

    He hedges: "We're not going to be banning any people right now." I'm sure it's not because they don't care, it's probably because their player base has shrunk so much since launch that EA dare not risk accelerating the mass exodus of players.

    Re: SWTOR

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  • WorstluckWorstluck the valley, CAPosts: 1,269Member

    Originally posted by MosesZD

    I wonder if any of these BioWare employees ever played an MMO that PvP...   

     

    Yes.  Warhammer Online.  That worked out great!

    image

  • iceman00iceman00 Westland, MIPosts: 1,363Member

    Originally posted by Kakkzooka

    Originally posted by NaughtyP

    Pretty weird that their official stance is "it doesn't really matter".

    He hedges: "We're not going to be banning any people right now." I'm sure it's not because they don't care, it's probably because their player base has shrunk so much since launch that EA dare not risk accelerating the mass exodus of players.

    If we ban exploiters, we will lose a significant minority of the base.

    Yet if exploiters aren't dealt with swiftly, we will lose a large portion of the base.

    This is why you have to have good mechanics in place to prevent this kind of crap from happening to begin with.  and in the end, you have to come down hard on exploiters.  Having a reputation for being soft on exploiters is bad for a games future.

    Its why even though I don't like the game, I respect what eve does.  They take a no nonsense attitude with exploiters, and they show what they did, and how they fixed it.

  • JakardJakard 98390, WAPosts: 415Member

    I enjoy TOR and respect Bioware as a company but I think we're seeing how green they are when it comes to the whole MMO scene. I don't think it's any more commplicated than that. They're released a product (and I think it's pretty good) but it has flaws and I think they're at a complete loss as to how to deal with those problems. The explotiters needs to be dealt with swiftly. They need to show some balls here and deal with the situation. Because the numbers are getting pretty sad. There are hardly any players on the early planets which tells me that they aren't getting new players to play the game or even current players to play new chaaracters. Both are problematic. Better figure this stuff out.

  • ChieftanChieftan Independence, MOPosts: 1,417Member

    Originally posted by Teala

    Is it any wonder that the PvP in this game is in such bad shape?  Watch this video and listen  to the guy in charge.

    PvP Lead  Design Interview  <<< clicky

    At 5:07 in the video he discusses kill trading.  Sad.

    So what's been your experience with SWTOR PVP? 

  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,930Member Common

    Originally posted by Kakkzooka

    Originally posted by NaughtyP

    Pretty weird that their official stance is "it doesn't really matter".

    He hedges: "We're not going to be banning any people right now." I'm sure it's not because they don't care, it's probably because their player base has shrunk so much since launch that EA dare not risk accelerating the mass exodus of players.

    Yeah, nothing like a game developer saying "cheaters do win".

  • MosesZDMosesZD Kirkwood, MOPosts: 1,383Member

    Originally posted by Worstluck

    Originally posted by MosesZD

    I wonder if any of these BioWare employees ever played an MMO that PvP...   

     

    Yes.  Warhammer Online.  That worked out great!

     

    lol.   That was funny...

  • MMOarQQMMOarQQ BoogalululuPosts: 636Member

    That man is such a hack.

    It's clear he and his team have no foresight.

  • dubyahitedubyahite Lincoln, NEPosts: 2,483Member
    Ilum is basically going to bedead next week anyways. Kill trading will be silly.

    I can only hope they have a plan to replace or fix it.

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  • NildenNilden null, NBPosts: 1,284Member Uncommon

    Oh yea pvp is in great shape. RNG loot bags, Ilum from click trading to spawn farming, kill switching, valor battlemaster maxing... Oh and huttball or the other 2 battlegrounds sometimes. Plans to copy WoW some more and make cross server BG's. Exploits to get more people in warzones. LOS exploits in warzones.

    Yeah man more noob pvp gear, that's the ticket.

    Man the only guy that must get laughed at more than the lead PvP designer must be the Lead space designer.

    How to post links.

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
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  • smh_alotsmh_alot Area 51Posts: 976Member
    Originally posted by MosesZD


    Originally posted by Worstluck


    Originally posted by MosesZD


    I wonder if any of these BioWare employees ever played an MMO that PvP...   

     

    Yes.  Warhammer Online.  That worked out great!

     

    lol.   That was funny...

     

    Warhammer Online and DAoC.

    People seem to forget that the creators of Warhammer Online are the same ones who stood at the base of the success of the much praised DAoC. Or, people tend to forget that if it doesn't fit their narrow black & white vision of things. Some people are so predictable in their grudge -_-
  • PuremallacePuremallace Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,856Member

    Originally posted by smh_alot

     

    Warhammer Online and DAoC.

     

    People seem to forget that the creators of Warhammer Online are the same ones who stood at the base of the success of the much praised DAoC. Or, people tend to forget that if it doesn't fit their narrow black & white vision of things. Some people are so predictable in their grudge -_-

    This does not change the fact there have been constant examples during TOR's developement why Ilum would be a complete disaster on day 1. If you played Aion for even a day this would be blatantly obvious.

     

    There seems to be a trend amung devs who are making these mmo's that they do not have any experience. Simple stuff like logging onto WoW would show how the Auction house UI should work. This game completely ignores the fact that Rift launched in 2011 and set completely new standards for what is expected on launch.

     

    Just to give you a idea here. Rift launch in February and TOR launched in December. That is 10 MONTHS to copy and paste there ability to modify the UI. Instead this company completely ignored mmo basics and thought people would ignore the inadequencies because of the story.

     

    I am sad the game is getting hammered because it is terrible for the genre because all TOR has done is convince WoW fanbois that Blizzard is a perfect dev with no flaws.

  • smh_alotsmh_alot Area 51Posts: 976Member
    This is quite ironic. Why should MMO devs have to copy all the features to the exact style of how some other MMO's are doing stuff? Weren't people saying that they dislike how MMO devs merely imitate and copy eachother's features and not follow their own way when implementing stuff?

    Yet those complaints get completely forgotten when an MMO company DOES follow their own way in the implementation of some features? What, there's only 1 way an AH should be?And, what, some people are now clamoring for copying 'MMO basics' down to the letter while at the same time complaining about devs that copy too much from former MMO's in their eyes? Wow, talk about bipolarity here, or hypocrisy >.<

    Besides that, your reply was no answer on my post at all: I merely commented on how people who hate/dislike TOR tend to be all too eager to include WAR in their rants to draw a negative picture but conveniently ignore DAoC that was made by the same people. In my eyes a simplistic way of looking at things, then again, I can't say that I'm surprised.
  • mbrodiembrodie MelbournePosts: 1,008Member Uncommon

    thankgod for the 1.2 miracle patch thats gonna save swtor!

     

    *cough*

  • mbrodiembrodie MelbournePosts: 1,008Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by smh_alot

    This is quite ironic. Why should MMO devs have to copy all the features to the exact style of how some other MMO's are doing stuff? Weren't people saying that they dislike how MMO devs merely imitate and copy eachother's features and not follow their own way when implementing stuff?

     

    Yet those complaints get completely forgotten when an MMO company DOES follow their own way in the implementation of some features? What, there's only 1 way an AH should be?And, what, some people are now clamoring for copying 'MMO basics' down to the letter while at the same time complaining about devs that copy too much from former MMO's in their eyes? Wow, talk about bipolarity here, or hypocrisy >.<

     

    Besides that, your reply was no answer on my post at all: I merely commented on how people who hate/dislike TOR tend to be all too eager to include WAR in their rants to draw a negative picture but conveniently ignore DAoC that was made by the same people. In my eyes a simplistic way of looking at things, then again, I can't say that I'm surprised.

    big difference between core functionality of an MMO and engine / mechanics - thats the difference people are complaining about

     

    Customizable UI

    Complete Featureset - as in non missing legacy system for example

    Functional AH and the damn thing in more locations

     

    they are things for example and not the only things that should be standard across the board.

     

    Game mechanics, story, playability, replayability, story etc... all the rest of it basically is what should be new an innovative, unless the prior is already in such a state where it does not need to be changed due to already being functional.

     

  • smh_alotsmh_alot Area 51Posts: 976Member
    Originally posted by mbrodie


    big difference between core functionality of an MMO and engine / mechanics - thats the difference people are complaining about
     
    Customizable UI
    Complete Featureset - as in non missing legacy system for example
    Functional AH and the damn thing in more locations
     
    they are things for example and not the only things that should be standard across the board.
     
    Game mechanics, story, playability, replayability, story etc... all the rest of it basically is what should be new an innovative, unless the prior is already in such a state where it does not need to be changed due to already being functional.
     

     

    I disagree on several aspects. First, I think some of the complainers that are craving things to be completely innovative or different are at heart far less openminded towards real innovativeness and their comfort zone far more clung to existing mechanics and features than their ranting might suggest. In reality they want innovation only to fall within their narrow range of acceptance, any innovation or different mechanic that falls outside that range will be complained about just as hard or will be considered too weird or freaky. Basically they only want some of the features they are unable to enjoy anymore to change, all the rest they actually want/need for it to stay the same to what they're used to, they're completely closed off to any innovation or straying away from the path on those 'same old' aspects and how they're done in the past.


    I disagree that there are things that should be stayed away from when it comes to doing things in a different way, to me it only shows how little adaptable a number of people are to things that are different including a lot of the same people clamoring for innovation. functional =/= only 1 way is good, and functional also =/= no different implementations should be attempted.

    Legacy system has nothing to do with core functionality nor with full feature set, so it's not related to the topic we were discussing at all.
  • mbrodiembrodie MelbournePosts: 1,008Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by smh_alot

    Originally posted by mbrodie

    big difference between core functionality of an MMO and engine / mechanics - thats the difference people are complaining about

     

    Customizable UI

    Complete Featureset - as in non missing legacy system for example

    Functional AH and the damn thing in more locations

     

    they are things for example and not the only things that should be standard across the board.

     

    Game mechanics, story, playability, replayability, story etc... all the rest of it basically is what should be new an innovative, unless the prior is already in such a state where it does not need to be changed due to already being functional.

     

     

    I disagree on several aspects. First, I think some of the complainers that are craving things to be completely innovative or different are at heart far less openminded towards real innovativeness and their comfort zone far more clung to existing mechanics and features than their ranting might suggest. In reality they want innovation only to fall within their narrow range of acceptance, any innovation or different mechanic that falls outside that range will be complained about just as hard or will be considered too weird or freaky. Basically they only want some of the features they are unable to enjoy anymore to change, all the rest they actually want/need for it to stay the same to what they're used to, they're completely closed off to any innovation or straying away from the path on those 'same old' aspects and how they're done in the past.

     



    I disagree that there are things that should be stayed away from when it comes to doing things in a different way, to me it only shows how little adaptable a number of people are to things that are different including a lot of the same people clamoring for innovation. functional =/= only 1 way is good, and functional also =/= no different implementations should be attempted.

     

    Legacy system has nothing to do with core functionality nor with full feature set, so it's not related to the topic we were discussing at all.

    First off yes it does - it said at level 30 i unlock my legacy system.. i hit level 30 and it says legacy system coming soon, thats something that should have shipped with the game and been core featureset... it's in there it's just incomplete.

     

    and swtor didnt innovate anything, outdated and non properly functioning UI from 2000 even SWG had a better UI in it, what didnt function do you ask, raid frames were broken, UI didnt translate global cooldown properly (and i'm not just talking about people not being able to comprehend the visual), no onscreen popups for "procced" abilities, the game is a action bar watcher and they made no attempt to try and innovate the UI to begin with - if you're going to make something uncustomizable for example the UI make it functional, i'm going to use this as an example because it's a good example of a non customizable to most degree UI and thats GW2 - it might not be highly if at all customizable but it's functional and doesnt require you to watch your action bar, thats a big thing i actually have situational awareness i like things to be on my screen for me to react not  have to watch my actionbar just incase.

     

    you can disagree all you want, but at the end of the day all the things people are still complaining about now were also getting complained about during beta with no attempt to remedy the situation including the bugs they have just been fixing getting reporpted upto 8 months before launch.. but apparently ignored to spend time hyping the game and not releasing a release quality product.

     

    go on and say that it's "the most polished game at launch ever" not even close - broken UI, broken combat and relaying of global cooldown from client to server which was acknowledged before launch with a fix in the works, broken quests, broken companions, half assed crafting, no legacy system, content pulled from beta before launch... 

     

    People dont have a weird vision or narrowmindedness, it's 2012 not 2004 we have a bigger expecatiation of how something should function at launch, compared to what we keep getting spoonfed at launch. 

  • headphonesheadphones melbournePosts: 611Member

    Originally posted by Teala

    Is it any wonder that the PvP in this game is in such bad shape?  Watch this video and listen  to the guy in charge.

    PvP Lead  Design Interview  <<< clicky

    At 5:07 in the video he discusses kill trading.  Sad.

    i think this is a fake. i mean, there's no way swtor even HAS a pvp design team.

  • mbrodiembrodie MelbournePosts: 1,008Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by headphones

    Originally posted by Teala

    Is it any wonder that the PvP in this game is in such bad shape?  Watch this video and listen  to the guy in charge.

    PvP Lead  Design Interview  <<< clicky

    At 5:07 in the video he discusses kill trading.  Sad.

    i think this is a fake. i mean, there's no way swtor even HAS a pvp design team.

     

    bahahahaha win!

  • LateBrake1LateBrake1 san diego, CAPosts: 54Member

    @ 4:47 Moderator:  'Any plany to do any large scale pvp like Alterac Valley in WoW?'

    Gabe: 'It's something we very much want to do and are working on it'...so you very much wanted to do huh,  but 5 years just wasnt enough time is that what your saying Gabe? Or are you saying Illum was your answer to Alterac Valley but Illum was a complete failure?

    This guy just seems clueless as to PvP in the modern MMO world. 'Yea we wanna do that ...planning..just stay tuned!..we wanna do that too..planning on it!...repeat, repeat.'

    Also not really concerned about people exploiting their system...an exploit is an exploit imo. Anyway I cancelled this game a while ago after I asked myself a couple simple questions.

    Would I be playing this if it wasn't the Star Wars universe? Answer NO.

    Does this feel like Star Wars? Answer NO.

     

  • smh_alotsmh_alot Area 51Posts: 976Member
    Originally posted by mbrodie


    First off yes it does - it said at level 30 i unlock my legacy system.. i hit level 30 and it says legacy system coming soon, thats something that should have shipped with the game and been core featureset... it's in there it's just incomplete.
     
    and swtor didnt innovate anything, outdated and non properly functioning UI from 2000 even SWG had a better UI in it, what didnt function do you ask, raid frames were broken, UI didnt translate global cooldown properly (and i'm not just talking about people not being able to comprehend the visual), no onscreen popups for "procced" abilities, the game is a action bar watcher and they made no attempt to try and innovate the UI to begin with - if you're going to make something uncustomizable for example the UI make it functional, i'm going to use this as an example because it's a good example of a non customizable to most degree UI and thats GW2 - it might not be highly if at all customizable but it's functional and doesnt require you to watch your action bar, thats a big thing i actually have situational awareness i like things to be on my screen for me to react not  have to watch my actionbar just incase.
     
    you can disagree all you want, but at the end of the day all the things people are still complaining about now were also getting complained about during beta with no attempt to remedy the situation including the bugs they have just been fixing getting reporpted upto 8 months before launch.. but apparently ignored to spend time hyping the game and not releasing a release quality product.
     
    go on and say that it's "the most polished game at launch ever" not even close - broken UI, broken combat and relaying of global cooldown from client to server which was acknowledged before launch with a fix in the works, broken quests, broken companions, half assed crafting, no legacy system, content pulled from beta before launch... 
     
    People dont have a weird vision or narrowmindedness, it's 2012 not 2004 we have a bigger expecatiation of how something should function at launch, compared to what we keep getting spoonfed at launch. 

     

    This is going way too far off the OP topic or even my own initial posts, which were about people conveniently ignoring DAoC when it didn't fit their black/white viewpoint of things. But for the sake of the argument, I'll answer shortly even if this has little to do with my own posts: legacy system, you may not like it, but you get your family name to use and they alrdy said they intended to do more with it. Don't like it, sure, but this has nothing to do with the innovation discussion we were talking about. Moving on. I already gave my view on why some people complain, I think I hit it pretty much on the spot. Not going to repeat my same argument there, and yes, I know that you'll always have people that'll complain no matter what. As for the rest, aaw man, I'm not even gonna bother, it's just another rant of someone who can't stick to the topic discussed and just derails to vent their frustration or hate/dislikes of a game. Same old stuff, tiresome.

    Since with every post our discussion goes farther and farther away from the OP topic or even what I was discussing initially, I'm not going to indulge such complain ranting any further and leave it at this. My first post was merely meant to correct what someone else was stating, after that it seems people come up with arguments in their replies that have less and less to do with the OP topic or even my own posts, so it's time to go back to OP topic.

    Originally posted by mbrodie


    Originally posted by headphones


    Originally posted by Teala


    Is it any wonder that the PvP in this game is in such bad shape? Watch this video and listen to the guy in charge.
    PvP Lead Design Interview <<< clicky</b>
    At 5:07 in the video he discusses kill trading. Sad.

    i think this is a fake. i mean, there's no way swtor even HAS a pvp design team.

    bahahahaha win!

    I think this says it all. People not really wanting to discuss things, but going for the cheap and easy bashing/trashtalking route again of a game they hate/dislike. Same old, same old -_-


    Anyway, I'm not bored enough to continue this kinda thread derailment any further, so back to OP topic for me.
  • azmundaiazmundai St Louis, MOPosts: 1,417Member

    it doesn't really matter? it sure as hell matters.

    when I leave my number 1 reason will be because I was farmed throughout my pvp career, by people who abused the system to create a huge gear gap between the factions.

    number 2 will be the crapiest raids I have ever seen. SOA .. is neat .. but it's bugginess discludes it from greatness. all the other raid content is wow in space .. only easier and more boring .. which shouldn't even be possible.

    LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
    I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

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