But is there that much money being made? I've often considered this myself. YES WoW has been incredibly popular and profitable..but what about the WoW clones?
WAR? Empty.
EQ2? Empty
Rift? Not empty, but certainly not raking in the dough
TOR: Sold a TON of copies initially, but also bioware has a massive investment in the game (somewhere around 350 Million dollars) and is undenibly losing population only 2 months after release.
So what seems like an initial infusment of cash (selling lots of copies, like rift did) seems to just result in an empty game 4 or 5 months down the road, or if not empty a massive cut in #of servers and staff.
You seriously need to learn the meaning of word empty. EQ2 is not empty especially after the F2P conversion game is booming. I was half way through to take your OP a little seriously and then you post crap like this. Age Of Discovery has brought so many players back and Free port and Anotonia Bayle serveres are always on High load during peak time these days... not bad for a 7 year old game.
Rift made 100 million in profit in 2011..what else raking in dough means for you? and how many time that 350 million development cost for SWTOR rumor needs to be debunked?
I can tell you what happened -- excessive FAIRNESS.
What the early MMOs had that recent MMOs do not is that they were UNFAIR.
Note unfair was a GOOD thing....
-----
Lets look at class balance first...
Today -- everyone has to be EQUAL... Everything needs to be fair... If one class can kill monster X solo -- then another class can probably kill monster X solo as well.
Now look at something like everquest as it was at release...
SOME classes could solo really well -- other classes under some situations -- some classes couldnt solo pretty much AT ALL. Some classes pretty much even needed escort to get back to the dungeon or they would die trying to get there.
Some classes had gate and bind and speed and other classes did NOT. If you played a warrior type in everquest 1 then you had to run to get there and you had to run to get back. You did NOT have gate. If you wanted to change your bind point you had to find someone to bind you somewhere. And it had to be in a town where the caster could bind just about anywhere.
It wasnt FAIR. It didnt NEED to be fair.
That caster had far lower strength than the warrior. He couldnt carry as much stuff. Nowadays all games have just slots and everyone can carry the same amount -- it is FAIR... Fair is not always good.
----
Look at items...
It is unfair that someone can build up money and then just buy that uber item with coin... They should have to do the dungeon themselves... Hence we got BoP -- it is FAIR...
Look at racial abilities...
It is unfair that race X has power Y because that makes it better than my race... Hence to be FAIR we get homoginized races where racials do not really mean anything.
Even racial stats/class choice.
It is unfair that ogres have a huge amount more strength than an pixie. I want to play my pixie warrior and do as much damage as ogres.... Hence we ended up with losing the racial stats and we ended up all ARAP(all races all professions) instead of having classes limited to races that would logically have them.
----
What we are currently suffering from is an excess of FAIRNESS... If things were a lot more unfair then people would have a lot better time with the games.
To understand why the WOW paradyme has taken over the industry, you have to look to the market, not to the industry. And the market is dominated by the ADD/instant gratification generation that we have become. EQ1 was based on a community that placed value on hard work, over an extended period of time to reach success. Blizzard just discovered the "I want it now" generation and made a game for them. It sold and the industry followed suit.
When you look at your sucessful neighbor (or more importantly when your kids do) do you see a guy who worked for 30 years building his own company from scratch and making it the best in town, or do you(they) just cound the number of BMWs in his driveway and admire the Alienware label on his computer? If the former, you have an EQ1 mindset, if the latter, then what matters to you is the shiny piece of armor that you just won the WoW raid lottery for.
Like the OP, I have been playing MMO's since UO and before that graphical MUDs and text MUDs, and the interesting and oftentimes saddening thing is what they tell you about your fellowe humans/players. The games the industry produces are the games that sell. We dont buy their garbage because that is the only thing they put out, they sell it because it is the only thing that sells. If you put out an EQ1 today, it is immediately labeled a "grindfest" and that is the only label more perjorative in the gaming world than WoW clone. Fact is, my friend, the games they make for us are just a sad commantary on who we are and who we have become.
What happened? WoW. EQ attracted Blizzard, and then Blizzard attracted publishers.
Blizzard struck huge success mainly due to marketing, and brought very little new to the table. So, every other AAA MMO, who doesn't understand that WoW's success was a fluke, tried to do the same.
Now, we have dumbed down shallow as a puddle MMOs being pushed out by big publishers, who don't want to risk anything by actually putting thought into a game or hiring good devs, aiming the games at the non MMO crowd.
Back in ye old days MMO was niche genre. Really niche. Less people played games in general, even less played them online, and only a very small part had good enough connections to play MMOs.
It was WoWs luck to be rleased at the moment where it all exploded. Internet became popular, gaming became popular, and usddenly You had influx of new blood into a genre that for most part kept to itself. The mor epopular something becomes (games, movies, books, music genres) the more big money You will see behind it. Big money however has tendency on being safe, because when You invest 50-100 millions in somehting You really don't want to loose it.
Thing is, the genre remained the same, You just see more of it, and since with Big Money comes Big Advertisement that's the side You see and get to expierience the most. Don't like what You see, look for smaller productions. They won't have the visuals or fancyness of big titles, but They may have the gameplay You look for. The question is what matters for You in the end? For the game to look pretty or to play as You like. Can't have both, not without huge piles of money to throw away, since production costs of games went up.
Back in ye old days MMO was niche genre. Really niche. Less people played games in general, even less played them online, and only a very small part had good enough connections to play MMOs.
It was WoWs luck to be rleased at the moment where it all exploded. Internet became popular, gaming became popular, and usddenly You had influx of new blood into a genre that for most part kept to itself. The mor epopular something becomes (games, movies, books, music genres) the more big money You will see behind it. Big money however has tendency on being safe, because when You invest 50-100 millions in somehting You really don't want to loose it.
Thing is, the genre remained the same, You just see more of it,
No... it didn't. Would that it had, but no. The genre changed. It got simpler, easier, less features, less new ideas. Less people. Less what an MMO is really about.
No baddies but this modern games are more entertaining... You just need to play it for a few months and quit... then play another one and another one and another one... That is the cycle lol... The secret is on the smell of new... After it goes away, is no good...
No baddies but this modern games are more entertaining... You just need to play it for a few months and quit... then play another one and another one and another one... That is the cycle lol... The secret is on the smell of new... After it goes away, is no good...
A few months? The smell of new usually lasts a few hours with me, because all the games are IDENTICAL.
No baddies but this modern games are more entertaining... You just need to play it for a few months and quit... then play another one and another one and another one... That is the cycle lol... The secret is on the smell of new... After it goes away, is no good...
Yea...I seem to have this pattern down pretty well...
But is there that much money being made? I've often considered this myself. YES WoW has been incredibly popular and profitable..but what about the WoW clones?
WAR? Empty.
EQ2? Empty
Rift? Not empty, but certainly not raking in the dough
TOR: Sold a TON of copies initially, but also bioware has a massive investment in the game (somewhere around 350 Million dollars) and is undenibly losing population only 2 months after release.
So what seems like an initial infusment of cash (selling lots of copies, like rift did) seems to just result in an empty game 4 or 5 months down the road, or if not empty a massive cut in #of servers and staff.
EQ2 is not a WoW clone. WoW is an EQ2 clone. EQ2 was released FIRST and has more features than WoW. EQ2 is also not empty, unless you're one of those people that thinks they can't play an MMO without a million people or more.
EQ2 was made first, but sadly they tried to copy a lot of WoW's features later down the line. They can't really be called a clone, but I'd say calling EQ2 a WoW transplant recipient would be fairly accurate.
WoW copied from other games, and EQ2 was one of them. WoW had no guild leveling or guild banks prior to stealing them from EQ2, so don't act like WoW is an innocent victim here, but yes, EQ2 sadly has had some WoW transplants over the years. I preferred the game when it was first released, but hey....SoE loves to change things....and change things.....and change things.
Anyway....WoW isn't without guilt in the "borrowing" features department.
But is there that much money being made? I've often considered this myself. YES WoW has been incredibly popular and profitable..but what about the WoW clones?
WAR? Empty.
EQ2? Empty
Rift? Not empty, but certainly not raking in the dough
TOR: Sold a TON of copies initially, but also bioware has a massive investment in the game (somewhere around 350 Million dollars) and is undenibly losing population only 2 months after release.
So what seems like an initial infusment of cash (selling lots of copies, like rift did) seems to just result in an empty game 4 or 5 months down the road, or if not empty a massive cut in #of servers and staff.
EQ2 is not a WoW clone. WoW is an EQ2 clone. EQ2 was released FIRST and has more features than WoW. EQ2 is also not empty, unless you're one of those people that thinks they can't play an MMO without a million people or more.
EQ2 was made first, but sadly they tried to copy a lot of WoW's features later down the line. They can't really be called a clone, but I'd say calling EQ2 a WoW transplant recipient would be fairly accurate.
WoW copied from other games, and EQ2 was one of them. WoW had no guild leveling or guild banks prior to stealing them from EQ2, so don't act like WoW is an innocent victim here, but yes, EQ2 sadly has had some WoW transplants over the years. I preferred the game when it was first released, but hey....SoE loves to change things....and change things.....and change things.
Anyway....WoW isn't without guilt in the "borrowing" features department.
Of course is not. WoW's never had an original feature to itself, it just steals them from other MMOs. Not a single original idea.
That being said I agree, pretty much all WoW clones have failed, some harder than others. The publishers are not taking the hint. Hopefully SWTORs utter failure will convince them.
Respectfully. No. Hardcore, old school, gamers are not a dying breed at all, they are massing in vast quantities.
Lets be crazy and be half full about this:
1. Due to mainstream acceptance of casual online games, millions of folks are being added to the online game Market Capacity every year.
2. A small percent of all of those millions of "new blood" players will try it and say to themselves, "this is too easy", and hunger for something harder, more challenging. They will find something that isnt carebear.
So, this is not the end of the world, this is an amazing opportunity, a huge demand growing every year, for hard core online gaming.
I bet alot of the original Eq PvP players are still playing hardcore PvP today, in arenas that are more challenging, require more thought, more planning, even more massive amounts of time investment, more PvP Eliteness, then many of us would ever reach. This time they have alot of competition, and the game is On!
You just need to find them. They are already waiting for us panzies to zone in so they can smoke our noobness.
Personally, I think most of you know the hardcore games out there already exist, but arent up to the challenge. You lost your elite status, and refuse to accept you got beaten repeatedly by 11 yr olds that have more time and skills then most of us combined.
They can 2 box the Sleeper while watching anime, and you hate it.
But is there that much money being made? I've often considered this myself. YES WoW has been incredibly popular and profitable..but what about the WoW clones?
WAR? Empty.
EQ2? Empty
Rift? Not empty, but certainly not raking in the dough
TOR: Sold a TON of copies initially, but also bioware has a massive investment in the game (somewhere around 350 Million dollars) and is undenibly losing population only 2 months after release.
So what seems like an initial infusment of cash (selling lots of copies, like rift did) seems to just result in an empty game 4 or 5 months down the road, or if not empty a massive cut in #of servers and staff.
EQ2 is not a WoW clone. WoW is an EQ2 clone. EQ2 was released FIRST and has more features than WoW. EQ2 is also not empty, unless you're one of those people that thinks they can't play an MMO without a million people or more.
EQ2 was made first, but sadly they tried to copy a lot of WoW's features later down the line. They can't really be called a clone, but I'd say calling EQ2 a WoW transplant recipient would be fairly accurate.
WoW copied from other games, and EQ2 was one of them. WoW had no guild leveling or guild banks prior to stealing them from EQ2, so don't act like WoW is an innocent victim here, but yes, EQ2 sadly has had some WoW transplants over the years. I preferred the game when it was first released, but hey....SoE loves to change things....and change things.....and change things.
Anyway....WoW isn't without guilt in the "borrowing" features department.
I agree completely with the green text. Even though it ran terribly on my crappy PC at the time, it was still a much better game than WoW ever was back then.
Respectfully. No. Hardcore, old school, gamers are not a dying breed at all, they are massing in vast quantities.
Lets be crazy and be half full about this:
1. Due to mainstream acceptance of casual online games, millions of folks are being added to the online game Market Capacity every year.
2. A small percent of all of those millions of "new blood" players will try it and say to themselves, "this is too easy", and hunger for something harder, more challenging. They will find something that isnt carebear.
So, this is not the end of the world, this is an amazing opportunity, a huge demand growing every year, for hard core online gaming.
I bet alot of the original Eq PvP players are still playing hardcore PvP today, in arenas that are more challenging, require more thought, more planning, even more massive amounts of time investment, more PvP Eliteness, then many of us would ever reach. This time they have alot of competition, and the game is On!
You just need to find them. They are already waiting for us panzies to zone in so they can smoke our noobness.
Personally, I think most of you know the hardcore games out there already exist, but arent up to the challenge. You lost your elite status, and refuse to accept you got beaten repeatedly by 11 yr olds that have more time and skills then most of us combined.
They can 2 box the Sleeper while watching anime, and you hate it.
-Blitz
Hardcore players aren't in the Arenas because Arenas aren't hardcore. The players may be out there but the games themselves are NOT. And that's the problem.
Game would have been shutdown or F2P long ago if they stayed with original EQ2.
Not at all. It was making the change that cost them a lot of their subs. The game had a pretty healthy player base for the original months until they went into easy-mode. The only thing that stunted its growth before that was the poor performance even on high-end machines along with the launch bugs.
Game would have been shutdown or F2P long ago if they stayed with original EQ2.
Very doubtful. Trends have shown that copying WoW doesn't work. It's what made SWG shut down. Its what made a lot of DAoC players leave. It's what sunk WAR, LotRO, AoC, and Rift. Doing something unique is what keeps you alive. Making Vanguard more like WoW just quickened its death.
But is there that much money being made? I've often considered this myself. YES WoW has been incredibly popular and profitable..but what about the WoW clones?
WAR? Empty.
EQ2? Empty
Rift? Not empty, but certainly not raking in the dough
TOR: Sold a TON of copies initially, but also bioware has a massive investment in the game (somewhere around 350 Million dollars) and is undenibly losing population only 2 months after release.
So what seems like an initial infusment of cash (selling lots of copies, like rift did) seems to just result in an empty game 4 or 5 months down the road, or if not empty a massive cut in #of servers and staff.
EQ2 is not a WoW clone. WoW is an EQ2 clone. EQ2 was released FIRST and has more features than WoW. EQ2 is also not empty, unless you're one of those people that thinks they can't play an MMO without a million people or more.
EQ2 was made first, but sadly they tried to copy a lot of WoW's features later down the line. They can't really be called a clone, but I'd say calling EQ2 a WoW transplant recipient would be fairly accurate.
WoW copied from other games, and EQ2 was one of them. WoW had no guild leveling or guild banks prior to stealing them from EQ2, so don't act like WoW is an innocent victim here, but yes, EQ2 sadly has had some WoW transplants over the years. I preferred the game when it was first released, but hey....SoE loves to change things....and change things.....and change things.
Anyway....WoW isn't without guilt in the "borrowing" features department.
Of course is not. WoW's never had an original feature to itself, it just steals them from other MMOs. Not a single original idea.
That being said I agree, pretty much all WoW clones have failed, some harder than others. The publishers are not taking the hint. Hopefully SWTORs utter failure will convince them.
Rift isn't a failure neither is SWTOR..the verdict is still out on that one. Not every MMo needs to beat WOW to be called success.
EQ2 was dying when WoW came out. EQ2 ran like crap, was grindy, and people did not care for the animations. People left the game in droves. If it had been working they would not have changed it to try and stay alive.
The days of EQ games being AAA are gone for now. The masses do not want them and the masses are what you need to fund a big time game. If Eve launched today like it did back when it started it would be DOA too. It survived because people gave it time to grow. Games do not have that luxery now. They have to come out a hit or die on the heaps with the rest of the games living their lives in the shadows.
But is there that much money being made? I've often considered this myself. YES WoW has been incredibly popular and profitable..but what about the WoW clones?
WAR? Empty.
EQ2? Empty
Rift? Not empty, but certainly not raking in the dough
TOR: Sold a TON of copies initially, but also bioware has a massive investment in the game (somewhere around 350 Million dollars) and is undenibly losing population only 2 months after release.
So what seems like an initial infusment of cash (selling lots of copies, like rift did) seems to just result in an empty game 4 or 5 months down the road, or if not empty a massive cut in #of servers and staff.
EQ2 is not a WoW clone. WoW is an EQ2 clone. EQ2 was released FIRST and has more features than WoW. EQ2 is also not empty, unless you're one of those people that thinks they can't play an MMO without a million people or more.
EQ2 was made first, but sadly they tried to copy a lot of WoW's features later down the line. They can't really be called a clone, but I'd say calling EQ2 a WoW transplant recipient would be fairly accurate.
WoW copied from other games, and EQ2 was one of them. WoW had no guild leveling or guild banks prior to stealing them from EQ2, so don't act like WoW is an innocent victim here, but yes, EQ2 sadly has had some WoW transplants over the years. I preferred the game when it was first released, but hey....SoE loves to change things....and change things.....and change things.
Anyway....WoW isn't without guilt in the "borrowing" features department.
Of course is not. WoW's never had an original feature to itself, it just steals them from other MMOs. Not a single original idea.
That being said I agree, pretty much all WoW clones have failed, some harder than others. The publishers are not taking the hint. Hopefully SWTORs utter failure will convince them.
Rift isn't a failure neither is SWTOR..the verdict is still out on that one. Not every MMo needs to beat WOW to be called success.
If Rift wasn't a failure it wouldn't have to merge servers. They got a quick cash grab in box sales then people stopped playing because its the same old same old. And SWTOR is tanking fast.
EQ2 was dying when WoW came out. EQ2 ran like crap, was grindy, and people did not care for the animations. People left the game in droves. If it had been working they would not have changed it to try and stay alive.
The days of EQ games being AAA are gone for now. The masses do not want them and the masses are what you need to fund a big time game. If Eve launched today like it did back when it started it would be DOA too. It survived because people gave it time to grow. Games do not have that luxery now. They have to come out a hit or die on the heaps with the rest of the games living their lives in the shadows.
The masses aren't anywhere. The only "masses" in this genre played WoW, and they never left it. Every WoW clone has failed. Why would the casual market leave WoW? They already love WoW. Most of them aren't even aware of the MMO genre. Changing the core of a game to keep it alive has never worked in the past, why do you think it worked in EQ2? Do you honestly think that making a game more like WoW HELPS?
The biggest market out there right now I'd say are displaced hardcore MMO gamers waiting for something of quality. We have plenty of WoW clones, so the real money is in making a big budget non WoW clone.
Comments
EQ2 is not a wow clone ROFL
So many clueless statements made on these forums nowadays, bring back the old days of MMORPGs and bring back the old players to.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
You seriously need to learn the meaning of word empty. EQ2 is not empty especially after the F2P conversion game is booming. I was half way through to take your OP a little seriously and then you post crap like this. Age Of Discovery has brought so many players back and Free port and Anotonia Bayle serveres are always on High load during peak time these days... not bad for a 7 year old game.
Rift made 100 million in profit in 2011..what else raking in dough means for you? and how many time that 350 million development cost for SWTOR rumor needs to be debunked?
I can tell you what happened -- excessive FAIRNESS.
What the early MMOs had that recent MMOs do not is that they were UNFAIR.
Note unfair was a GOOD thing....
-----
Lets look at class balance first...
Today -- everyone has to be EQUAL... Everything needs to be fair... If one class can kill monster X solo -- then another class can probably kill monster X solo as well.
Now look at something like everquest as it was at release...
SOME classes could solo really well -- other classes under some situations -- some classes couldnt solo pretty much AT ALL. Some classes pretty much even needed escort to get back to the dungeon or they would die trying to get there.
Some classes had gate and bind and speed and other classes did NOT. If you played a warrior type in everquest 1 then you had to run to get there and you had to run to get back. You did NOT have gate. If you wanted to change your bind point you had to find someone to bind you somewhere. And it had to be in a town where the caster could bind just about anywhere.
It wasnt FAIR. It didnt NEED to be fair.
That caster had far lower strength than the warrior. He couldnt carry as much stuff. Nowadays all games have just slots and everyone can carry the same amount -- it is FAIR... Fair is not always good.
----
Look at items...
It is unfair that someone can build up money and then just buy that uber item with coin... They should have to do the dungeon themselves... Hence we got BoP -- it is FAIR...
Look at racial abilities...
It is unfair that race X has power Y because that makes it better than my race... Hence to be FAIR we get homoginized races where racials do not really mean anything.
Even racial stats/class choice.
It is unfair that ogres have a huge amount more strength than an pixie. I want to play my pixie warrior and do as much damage as ogres.... Hence we ended up with losing the racial stats and we ended up all ARAP(all races all professions) instead of having classes limited to races that would logically have them.
----
What we are currently suffering from is an excess of FAIRNESS... If things were a lot more unfair then people would have a lot better time with the games.
Amen!
To understand why the WOW paradyme has taken over the industry, you have to look to the market, not to the industry. And the market is dominated by the ADD/instant gratification generation that we have become. EQ1 was based on a community that placed value on hard work, over an extended period of time to reach success. Blizzard just discovered the "I want it now" generation and made a game for them. It sold and the industry followed suit.
When you look at your sucessful neighbor (or more importantly when your kids do) do you see a guy who worked for 30 years building his own company from scratch and making it the best in town, or do you(they) just cound the number of BMWs in his driveway and admire the Alienware label on his computer? If the former, you have an EQ1 mindset, if the latter, then what matters to you is the shiny piece of armor that you just won the WoW raid lottery for.
Like the OP, I have been playing MMO's since UO and before that graphical MUDs and text MUDs, and the interesting and oftentimes saddening thing is what they tell you about your fellowe humans/players. The games the industry produces are the games that sell. We dont buy their garbage because that is the only thing they put out, they sell it because it is the only thing that sells. If you put out an EQ1 today, it is immediately labeled a "grindfest" and that is the only label more perjorative in the gaming world than WoW clone. Fact is, my friend, the games they make for us are just a sad commantary on who we are and who we have become.
What happened? WoW. EQ attracted Blizzard, and then Blizzard attracted publishers.
Blizzard struck huge success mainly due to marketing, and brought very little new to the table. So, every other AAA MMO, who doesn't understand that WoW's success was a fluke, tried to do the same.
Now, we have dumbed down shallow as a puddle MMOs being pushed out by big publishers, who don't want to risk anything by actually putting thought into a game or hiring good devs, aiming the games at the non MMO crowd.
You want to know what happned? People happned.
Back in ye old days MMO was niche genre. Really niche. Less people played games in general, even less played them online, and only a very small part had good enough connections to play MMOs.
It was WoWs luck to be rleased at the moment where it all exploded. Internet became popular, gaming became popular, and usddenly You had influx of new blood into a genre that for most part kept to itself. The mor epopular something becomes (games, movies, books, music genres) the more big money You will see behind it. Big money however has tendency on being safe, because when You invest 50-100 millions in somehting You really don't want to loose it.
Thing is, the genre remained the same, You just see more of it, and since with Big Money comes Big Advertisement that's the side You see and get to expierience the most. Don't like what You see, look for smaller productions. They won't have the visuals or fancyness of big titles, but They may have the gameplay You look for. The question is what matters for You in the end? For the game to look pretty or to play as You like. Can't have both, not without huge piles of money to throw away, since production costs of games went up.
No... it didn't. Would that it had, but no. The genre changed. It got simpler, easier, less features, less new ideas. Less people. Less what an MMO is really about.
No baddies but this modern games are more entertaining... You just need to play it for a few months and quit... then play another one and another one and another one... That is the cycle lol... The secret is on the smell of new... After it goes away, is no good...
A few months? The smell of new usually lasts a few hours with me, because all the games are IDENTICAL.
Yea...I seem to have this pattern down pretty well...
WoW copied from other games, and EQ2 was one of them. WoW had no guild leveling or guild banks prior to stealing them from EQ2, so don't act like WoW is an innocent victim here, but yes, EQ2 sadly has had some WoW transplants over the years. I preferred the game when it was first released, but hey....SoE loves to change things....and change things.....and change things.
Anyway....WoW isn't without guilt in the "borrowing" features department.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Of course is not. WoW's never had an original feature to itself, it just steals them from other MMOs. Not a single original idea.
That being said I agree, pretty much all WoW clones have failed, some harder than others. The publishers are not taking the hint. Hopefully SWTORs utter failure will convince them.
Respectfully. No. Hardcore, old school, gamers are not a dying breed at all, they are massing in vast quantities.
Lets be crazy and be half full about this:
1. Due to mainstream acceptance of casual online games, millions of folks are being added to the online game Market Capacity every year.
2. A small percent of all of those millions of "new blood" players will try it and say to themselves, "this is too easy", and hunger for something harder, more challenging. They will find something that isnt carebear.
So, this is not the end of the world, this is an amazing opportunity, a huge demand growing every year, for hard core online gaming.
I bet alot of the original Eq PvP players are still playing hardcore PvP today, in arenas that are more challenging, require more thought, more planning, even more massive amounts of time investment, more PvP Eliteness, then many of us would ever reach. This time they have alot of competition, and the game is On!
You just need to find them. They are already waiting for us panzies to zone in so they can smoke our noobness.
Personally, I think most of you know the hardcore games out there already exist, but arent up to the challenge. You lost your elite status, and refuse to accept you got beaten repeatedly by 11 yr olds that have more time and skills then most of us combined.
They can 2 box the Sleeper while watching anime, and you hate it.
-Blitz
Werewolf Online(R) - Lead Developer
I agree completely with the green text. Even though it ran terribly on my crappy PC at the time, it was still a much better game than WoW ever was back then.
Game would have been shutdown or F2P long ago if they stayed with original EQ2.
Hardcore players aren't in the Arenas because Arenas aren't hardcore. The players may be out there but the games themselves are NOT. And that's the problem.
Not at all. It was making the change that cost them a lot of their subs. The game had a pretty healthy player base for the original months until they went into easy-mode. The only thing that stunted its growth before that was the poor performance even on high-end machines along with the launch bugs.
Very doubtful. Trends have shown that copying WoW doesn't work. It's what made SWG shut down. Its what made a lot of DAoC players leave. It's what sunk WAR, LotRO, AoC, and Rift. Doing something unique is what keeps you alive. Making Vanguard more like WoW just quickened its death.
Rift isn't a failure neither is SWTOR..the verdict is still out on that one. Not every MMo needs to beat WOW to be called success.
EQ2 was dying when WoW came out. EQ2 ran like crap, was grindy, and people did not care for the animations. People left the game in droves. If it had been working they would not have changed it to try and stay alive.
The days of EQ games being AAA are gone for now. The masses do not want them and the masses are what you need to fund a big time game. If Eve launched today like it did back when it started it would be DOA too. It survived because people gave it time to grow. Games do not have that luxery now. They have to come out a hit or die on the heaps with the rest of the games living their lives in the shadows.
If Rift wasn't a failure it wouldn't have to merge servers. They got a quick cash grab in box sales then people stopped playing because its the same old same old. And SWTOR is tanking fast.
The masses aren't anywhere. The only "masses" in this genre played WoW, and they never left it. Every WoW clone has failed. Why would the casual market leave WoW? They already love WoW. Most of them aren't even aware of the MMO genre. Changing the core of a game to keep it alive has never worked in the past, why do you think it worked in EQ2? Do you honestly think that making a game more like WoW HELPS?
The biggest market out there right now I'd say are displaced hardcore MMO gamers waiting for something of quality. We have plenty of WoW clones, so the real money is in making a big budget non WoW clone.
shit happened, ask forest gump.!