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How could you not want to play Guild Wars 2?

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  • solarinesolarine Member Posts: 1,203

    I do want to play Guild Wars 2 and am pretty sure I will for a few months at least.

    Though, it's not a game I'm *really* hyped about. And I have a valid reason for it:

    I don't play MMOs for the combat.

    So, there. Guild Wars 2 is all about combat. Everything it does new (and it does quite a lot of new things), has to do with combat. The whole gameplay sphere is based on combat.

    In MMOs I really like, combat is either something I do on the side or a means to an end for me. So I love games like Vanguard or LOTRO (and even WOW, to an extent) and of course, EVE, where you can keep yourself busy without doing combat over and over again... like, all the time. :)

    Guild Wars 2? It seems it's not one of them.

    Though I have to say I love the secret areas with platform puzzles from what I've seen. :)

     

  • blognorgblognorg Member UncommonPosts: 643

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by blognorg


     

    How do you validdate your assumption that the cash shop will have things like new map packs? Others assume that there won't be, because ArenaNet has said as much. Unless they are blatenyly lying, larger things will be reserved for expansions, and if you have a problem with those, then you are expcting too much for nothing.

    It's my understanding that what they said was," there will not be items for sale that give an advantage over those who earn things by playing the game" -paraphrase. That could mean a number of things really, unless they've clarified that statement, it's all guess work as to what they will sell.

    True. It is guess work at this point. However, I was merely defending an attack on what is unknown. It seems silly to bash on a game with nothing but suspision. Especially, when there is more reason to believe the contrary. They've stated that there won't be any items of power, and that the model they are using is akin to that which they've used in GW1. It didn't have anything like that. Questioning something based on what is known is one thing, but taking stabs in the dark for the sake of taking stabs is another.

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001

    Originally posted by solarine

    I do want to play Guild Wars 2 and am pretty sure I will for a few months at least.

    Though, it's not a game I'm *really* hyped about. And I have a valid reason for it:

    I don't play MMOs for the combat.

    So, there. Guild Wars 2 is all about combat. Everything it does new (and it does quite a lot of new things), has to do with combat. The whole gameplay sphere is based on combat.

    In MMOs I really like, combat is either something I do on the side or a means to an end for me. So I love games like Vanguard or LOTRO (and even WOW, to an extent) and of course, EVE, where you can keep yourself busy without doing combat over and over again... like, all the time. :)

    Guild Wars 2? It seems it's not one of them.

    Though I have to say I love the secret areas with platform puzzles from what I've seen. :)

     

    Im a pve and rpg fan, and for me the deal maker is the different achievments you will be playing towards in the game along with the storylines, trait achievments and dynamic events to RP, you should look into these as they are classic mmorg activites which will sit along side the strong pvp and wvw pvp ativities.

     

     

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • spaceportspaceport Member Posts: 405

    It's a themepark

     

    It will be fun for a couple of months, no doubt....

     

    But WvWvW against random servers.... = no community

    No player driven content...

    The combat looks better than your average 123 snorefest, but still very meh, the graphics look cartonish and the art style generic.

     

    But i love how you can lvl up with Dynamic Events, im really tired of quest grinding,

    Not interested in eSport PVP, id rather have a more dynamic PVP with freedom instead of fighting people i don't know for some boring server bonus i don't care about.

     

    IMHO, of course.

    image
    "Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
    otacu

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by blognorg

    True. It is guess work at this point. However, I was merely defending an attack on what is unknown. It seems silly to bash on a game with nothing but suspision. Especially, when there is more reason to believe the contrary. They've stated that there won't be any items of power, and that the model they are using is akin to that which they've used in GW1. It didn't have anything like that. Questioning something based on what is known is one thing, but taking stabs in the dark for the sake of taking stabs is another.

    True, the slippery slope is the normal front the troll takes with their attacks. We can all assume they'll sell more than bling, yet most of us just take a wait and see apporach, it's a lot easier and there's no reason to worry about the comments we may have made before we had a clue. :)

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member Posts: 4,990

    Originally posted by spaceport

     

    But WvWvW against random servers.... = no community

    I don't get this. When you're in The Mists you're working with others on your server all the time to try and win the objectives. Seems to me if anything this would strengthen the community on servers or at least have the potential to anyways. For those that spend a large portion of their time in the area.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • spaceportspaceport Member Posts: 405
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly


    Originally posted by spaceport

     
    But WvWvW against random servers.... = no community

    I don't get this. When you're in The Mists you're working with others on your server all the time to try and win the objectives. Seems to me if anything this would strengthen the community on servers or at least have the potential to anyways. For those that spend a large portion of their time in the area.

     

    Im working with strangers, against random no-names, just because they joined a different server.

     

    It's still a blue team vs red ream vs green team PVP.

     

    Im not saying it's a bad thing, but i enjoy more open PVP, kinda what ArcheAge has.

     

    Hell even Tera looks more dynamic with a PK system, no factions..., guild wars... politics.

     

    I played Lineage 2 for many years and i love that style of PVP.

    image
    "Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
    otacu

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member Posts: 4,990

    Originally posted by spaceport

    Im working with strangers, against random no-names, just because they joined a different server.

     

    It's still a blue team vs red ream vs green team PVP.

     

    Im not saying it's a bad thing, but i enjoy more open PVP, kinda what ArcheAge has.

     

    Hell even Tera looks more dynamic with a PK system, no factions..., guild wars... politics.

     

    I played Lineage 2 for many years and i love that style of PVP.

    Oh, so you're referring across the game as a whole in reference to community. Yeah, I see your point. Honestly though considering the mentality and lack of community in most games simply per server I would like to see a game cultivate at least some semblance of a community per server. Seems anymore in these modern mmos that would be a feat within itself.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • fiontarfiontar Member UncommonPosts: 3,682

    Originally posted by spaceport

    It's a themepark

     MMOs track along a graph with Theme Park at one end and Sandbox at the other. It's not an either, or, or most games people reference as being Sandbox MMOs wouldn't fit the strictest definition of the term. Does GW2 lean more to the left of the center point than the right? Sure, but it offers a much more organic process than most MMOs that we could agree are almost entirelly linear, stale theme parks.

    It will be fun for a couple of months, no doubt....

     Well, glad to see you can at least admit it's likely to be fun.

    But WvWvW against random servers.... = no community

    I don't buy that at all. The fact that you never know what you will be facing in the next server groupings should bring people on the server closer together. Your enemy doesn't define you, it's how you face your enemies that define you.

    No player driven content...

    Well. Player designed content? No. Player Driven Content? Most of the content is player driven. Events wil or will not happen based on the actions of players. People you never even meet, playing hours before you logged on, could have set in motion the chain of events that leads up to the content you are experiencing in the here and now and you success or failure at various events will change the course of future events in the world. Content is more player driven than any other MMORPG I can think of.

    The combat looks better than your average 123 snorefest, but still very meh, the graphics look cartonish and the art style generic.

     See below why judging the game's graphics on compressed youtube videos, mostly taken with FRAPS with settings turned down to compensate for the resource hog that FRAPS can be, are not a good indication of the style of graphics.

    But i love how you can lvl up with Dynamic Events, im really tired of quest grinding,

    That's good to hear. You at least are sensing what the game has to offer and the potential it presents to make the game fresh and fun.

    Not interested in eSport PVP, id rather have a more dynamic PVP with freedom instead of fighting people i don't know for some boring server bonus i don't care about.

    I don't know which games you feel offer more freedom. If you mean open world PVP anywhere, no, you won't find it here. It runs contrary to the game design which tries to build cooperation among players and overcome the anti-coopertive conditioning of most current MMORPGs. WvW, though, gives you tons of freedom and plenty of purpose. You may be pleasantly surprised.

     

    IMHO, of course.

    Of Course.

    Ok, the visuals. Cartoonish graphics? I think not. Click each image for the original, high resolution picture.

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
    image

  • QuesaQuesa Member UncommonPosts: 1,432

    Pic's were good for your point until the last one where a midget with a watermellon head shows up.

    Star Citizen Referral Code: STAR-DPBM-Z2P4
  • spaceportspaceport Member Posts: 405
    Originally posted by fiontar


    Originally posted by spaceport

    It's a themepark
     MMOs track along a graph with Theme Park at one end and Sandbox at the other. It's not an either, or, or most games people reference as being Sandbox MMOs wouldn't fit the strictest definition of the term. Does GW2 lean more to the left of the center point than the right? Sure, but it offers a much more organic process than most MMOs that we could agree are almost entirelly linear, stale theme parks.
    It will be fun for a couple of months, no doubt....
     Well, glad to see you can at least admit it's likely to be fun.
    But WvWvW against random servers.... = no community
    I don't buy that at all. The fact that you never know what you will be facing in the next server groupings should bring people on the server closer together. Your enemy doesn't define you, it's how you face your enemies that define you.
    No player driven content...
    Well. Player designed content? No. Player Driven Content? Most of the content is player driven. Events wil or will not happen based on the actions of players. People you never even meet, playing hours before you logged on, could have set in motion the chain of events that leads up to the content you are experiencing in the here and now and you success or failure at various events will change the course of future events in the world. Content is more player driven than any other MMORPG I can think of.
    The combat looks better than your average 123 snorefest, but still very meh, the graphics look cartonish and the art style generic.
     See below why judging the game's graphics on compressed youtube videos, mostly taken with FRAPS with settings turned down to compensate for the resource hog that FRAPS can be, are not a good indication of the style of graphics.
    But i love how you can lvl up with Dynamic Events, im really tired of quest grinding,
    That's good to hear. You at least are sensing what the game has to offer and the potential it presents to make the game fresh and fun.
    Not interested in eSport PVP, id rather have a more dynamic PVP with freedom instead of fighting people i don't know for some boring server bonus i don't care about.
    I don't know which games you feel offer more freedom. If you mean open world PVP anywhere, no, you won't find it here. It runs contrary to the game design which tries to build cooperation among players and overcome the anti-coopertive conditioning of most current MMORPGs. WvW, though, gives you tons of freedom and plenty of purpose. You may be pleasantly surprised.
     
    IMHO, of course.
    Of Course.

    Ok, the visuals. Cartoonish graphics? I think not. Click each image for the original, high resolution picture.

     

    Read my second comment if you didn't understand what i wrote.

     

    Red team vs blue team vs green team = boring, no real enemies, no real community, again im not saying it's bad but i d rather have real enemies, guild drama and all that stuff, just like what Lineage 2 had.
    Ever played EvE, UO, or SWG? that's what im talking about.

     

    Your comments about the Dynamic events sound so ridiculously overhyped, geez they are just scripted events with chains.

     

    And they look exactly like Rift community wise... single player grouping, join a DE, finish it and leave without ever saying a word, exactly like Rift.

     

    And yeah the lack of OWPVP really sucks for me.

    image
    "Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
    otacu

  • fiontarfiontar Member UncommonPosts: 3,682

    Originally posted by spaceport

    Originally posted by fiontar

    Originally posted by spaceport

    It's a themepark

     MMOs track along a graph with Theme Park at one end and Sandbox at the other. It's not an either, or, or most games people reference as being Sandbox MMOs wouldn't fit the strictest definition of the term. Does GW2 lean more to the left of the center point than the right? Sure, but it offers a much more organic process than most MMOs that we could agree are almost entirelly linear, stale theme parks.

    It will be fun for a couple of months, no doubt....

     Well, glad to see you can at least admit it's likely to be fun.

    But WvWvW against random servers.... = no community

    I don't buy that at all. The fact that you never know what you will be facing in the next server groupings should bring people on the server closer together. Your enemy doesn't define you, it's how you face your enemies that define you.

    No player driven content...

    Well. Player designed content? No. Player Driven Content? Most of the content is player driven. Events wil or will not happen based on the actions of players. People you never even meet, playing hours before you logged on, could have set in motion the chain of events that leads up to the content you are experiencing in the here and now and you success or failure at various events will change the course of future events in the world. Content is more player driven than any other MMORPG I can think of.

    The combat looks better than your average 123 snorefest, but still very meh, the graphics look cartonish and the art style generic.

     See below why judging the game's graphics on compressed youtube videos, mostly taken with FRAPS with settings turned down to compensate for the resource hog that FRAPS can be, are not a good indication of the style of graphics.

    But i love how you can lvl up with Dynamic Events, im really tired of quest grinding,

    That's good to hear. You at least are sensing what the game has to offer and the potential it presents to make the game fresh and fun.

    Not interested in eSport PVP, id rather have a more dynamic PVP with freedom instead of fighting people i don't know for some boring server bonus i don't care about.

    I don't know which games you feel offer more freedom. If you mean open world PVP anywhere, no, you won't find it here. It runs contrary to the game design which tries to build cooperation among players and overcome the anti-coopertive conditioning of most current MMORPGs. WvW, though, gives you tons of freedom and plenty of purpose. You may be pleasantly surprised.

     

    IMHO, of course.

    Of Course.

    Ok, the visuals. Cartoonish graphics? I think not. Click each image for the original, high resolution picture.

     

    [Pictures snipped for space].

     

    Read my second comment if you didn't understand what i wrote.

     

    Red team vs blue team vs green team = boring, no real enemies, no real community, again im not saying it's bad but i d rather have real enemies, guild drama and all that stuff, just like what Lineage 2 had. Ever played EvE, UO, or SWG? that's what im talking about.

    I understand what you wrote, but I disagree. I guess war must be casual and not create commraderie when the names of the enemy aren't known? That PvP must feel much safer when you can't be certain of your opponent's skill level based on reputation? Personalized drama destroys community. You know who your allies are and you can even identify the guild affiliation of foes, but I find the anonymous nature of one's foes to be more exciting as most fear is based on a fear of the unknown and unfamiliar. However, the anonymity removes the stress related to taking things personally.

     

    Your comments about the Dynamic events sound so ridiculously overhyped, geez they are just scripted events with chains.

    How so? Player actions influence the flow of events and the state of the game world. That's sort of the point of Dynamic Events. Not only to give the game a more organic feel and provide the illusion of a living world, but to allow players to have an effect on the world around them. It may sound like hype vs. the stale status quo, but that's not my issue.

     

    And they look exactly like Rift community wise... single player grouping, join a DE, finish it and leave without ever saying a word, exactly like Rift.

    All content can be cooperative on the fly, rather than just rare events like Rifts and Invasions. In Rift, the game is cooperative during those windows, but then returns to the default competative realationship between players. In GW2, all content rewards everyone who participates with out decreasing the rewards of others. In GW2, everyone who partakes of a kill gets full XP, it isn't split, it's the same amount you get for killing the mob solo. Same with loot, each player gets their own full loot for the kill, it isn't shared or diminished when others help out. Also, since you don't accept quests at a hub and there is no way to end up on a different quest stage from other players, ongoing cooperation is easier and more organic. The game rewards you for playing with others cooperatively and never punishes you for helping others or makes it inconvenient to continue along with people you meet.

    Some players are more social than others and there are also a lot of bad MMO habits that will have to be broken over time as people adjust to the GW2 way of doing things. GW2 seeks to encourage social play, rather than attempting to force it, or even actively discouraging it as many modern titles have done.

     

    And yeah the lack of OWPVP really sucks for me.

    WvW offers many of the same benefits as OWPVP and will appeal to many players who enjoy OWPVP, or who put up with it as the only outlet for mass PVP in the genre. I realize some won't like it, espescially those who live to grief and bully others, but nothing is going to appeal to everyone.

     

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
    image

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by fiontar

     

    I understand what you wrote, but I disagree. I guess war must be casual and not create commraderie when the names of the enemy aren't known? That PvP must feel much safer when you can't be certain of your opponent's skill level based on reputation? Personalized drama destroys community. You know who your allies are and you can even identify the guild affiliation of foes, but I find the anonymous nature of one's foes to be more exciting as most fear is based on a fear of the unknown and unfamiliar. However, the anonymity removes the stress related to taking things personally.

     

     

    1.I don't think you could have played those games after reading this, as you really don't understand how it was. 

    2.If you take things said in PVP personal you really do need a system like this.

    The greatest thing about PVP in say SWG was that you knew your enemy, you spent your entire gaming life occupying the same areas, meeting the same people, and killing each other. It was competitive in a healthy way, because it was fun, which is what matters most in a game.

    What I miss most was the PVP events/scenarios. GEtting together with multiple guilds of each faction, creating a story (background for the battle) enlisting people into ranked positions, setting up goals (such as the empire has to reach player X and take him prisoner, then move him to position Y, the rebs have to stop them, or rescue him if they succeed). It was the most fun I ahve ever had in a game, and have not experienced it since.

    This was true community oriented game-play. WHile GW2 may be fun it will be nothing like that. We're going to be doing what the devs intend us to be doing, not what we make for ourselves, this is what is missing in the MMO world today, and GW2 definitely isn't bringing it back.

     

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member Posts: 4,990

    Originally posted by Distopia

    1.I don't think you could have played those games after reading this, as you really don't understand how it was. 

    2.If you take things said in PVP personal you really do need a system like this.

    The greatest thing about PVP in say SWG was that you knew your enemy, you spent your entire gaming life occupying the same areas, meeting the same people, and killing each other. It was competitive in a healthy way, because it was fun, which is what matters most in a game.

    What I miss most was the PVP events/scenarios. GEtting together with multiple guilds of each faction, creating a story (background for the battle) enlisting people into ranked positions, setting up goals (such as the empire has to reach player X and take him prisoner, then move him to position Y, the rebs have to stop them, or rescue him if they succeed). It was the most fun I ahve ever had in a game, and have not experienced it since.

    This was true community oriented game-play. WHile GW2 may be fun it will be nothing like that. We're going to be doing what the devs intend us to be doing, not what we make for ourselves, this is what is missing in the MMO world today, and GW2 definitely isn't bringing it back.

     

    Is it even realistic to think it can be though? I mean lets get real here. The player base is not the same as it was years ago. I mean in most of these newer mmos you don't even have much of a community presence even on an individual's server let alone game wide. I'm really not sure regardless what a dev does if those days are ever going to come back. Least not in a themepark oriented game.

    Sure you have individuals that maintain one but a community presence like in the older games? I'm not sure you're going to see that unless the overall emphasis of the game is about completing objectives, events, quests, whatever as a team. Even then I'm not sure how your average modern day gamer is going to react and interact from a community perspective. Not to mention how well the game will do from a profitability standpoint that I believe is the reason so many devs shy away from going that route.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by Wickedjelly

     

    Is it even realistic to think it can be though? I mean lets get real here. The player base is not the same as it was years ago. I mean in most of these newer mmos you don't even have much of a community presence even on an individual's server let alone game wide. I'm really not sure regardless what a dev does if those days are ever going to come back. Least not in a themepark oriented game.

    Sure you have individuals that maintain one but a community presence like in the older games? I'm not sure you're going to see that unless the overall emphasis of the game is about completing objectives, events, quests, whatever as a team. Even then I'm not sure how your average modern day gamer is going to react and interact from a community perspective. Not to mention how well the game will do from a profitability standpoint that I believe is the reason so many devs shy away from going that route.

    Oh I defnitely wouldn't assume it can be brought back. Too much negativity in todays community and too much e-peening. Its just sad that many assume PVP was anything like it is today in an open environment, it simply wasn't, there were sour apples sure, but nothing like today. People actually gave a damn about the health of the community in those games, you can't replicate that when you're playing with those who don't.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • fiontarfiontar Member UncommonPosts: 3,682

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by fiontar


     

    I understand what you wrote, but I disagree. I guess war must be casual and not create commraderie when the names of the enemy aren't known? That PvP must feel much safer when you can't be certain of your opponent's skill level based on reputation? Personalized drama destroys community. You know who your allies are and you can even identify the guild affiliation of foes, but I find the anonymous nature of one's foes to be more exciting as most fear is based on a fear of the unknown and unfamiliar. However, the anonymity removes the stress related to taking things personally.

     

     

    1.I don't think you could have played those games after reading this, as you really don't understand how it was. 

    2.If you take things said in PVP personal you really do need a system like this.

    The greatest thing about PVP in say SWG was that you knew your enemy, you spent your entire gaming life occupying the same areas, meeting the same people, and killing each other. It was competitive in a healthy way, because it was fun, which is what matters most in a game.

    What I miss most was the PVP events/scenarios. GEtting together with multiple guilds of each faction, creating a story (background for the battle) enlisting people into ranked positions, setting up goals (such as the empire has to reach player X and take him prisoner, then move him to position Y, the rebs have to stop them, or rescue him if they succeed). It was the most fun I ahve ever had in a game, and have not experienced it since.

    This was true community oriented game-play. WHile GW2 may be fun it will be nothing like that. We're going to be doing what the devs intend us to be doing, not what we make for ourselves, this is what is missing in the MMO world today, and GW2 definitely isn't bringing it back.

     

    You want a Sandbox PvP game. Unfortunately, there have been a few of those in recent years and none, aside from EVE, have thrived, or even survived. Maybe some developer as talented and commited to innovation as Arenanet will take up the the task of producing a great Sandbox MMO with Open World PVP and somehow make it work. I hope so, I'm not opposed to such games, but GW2 is a highly cooperative MMORPG that tries to eliminate most forms of griefing and barriers to people playing together. Given how much the genre has done in recent years to discourage cooperation, I'm glad for the change in direction.

    The reality is that community is very different than it was a decade ago. Trying to establish cooperative communities between competative factions in a more sandbox leaning title, with out their being more asshats than friendly competitors, is probably going to be close to impossible. It's doesn't become any easier when developers who try to introduce some logical system to combat "ass-hattery" get crucified for it, but that's a debate for elsewhere.

    I don't think we need to debate whether or not this is a PVP sandbox title, it clearly isn't a game grounded at the Sandbox end of the Theme Park vs. Sandbox spectrum. For people who actually appreciate what sandbox titles are like and have decided that's the only game type worthy of their time, more power to them, but what's the point of being a contrarian towards a game that does offer a heck of a lot to a lot of MMO fans and does indeed provide some compelling game design innovations?

    GW2 looks to be the game I have been waiting for for the last twelve years. I'm sorry if your wait looks to be longer, but Arenanet can't be expected to fix every aspect of the MMO genre with one game.

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
    image

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by fiontar

     

    You want a Sandbox PvP game. Unfortunately, there have been a few of those in recent years and none, aside from EVE, have thrived, or even survived. Maybe some developer as talented and commited to innovation as Arenanet will take up the the task of producing a great Sandbox MMO with Open World PVP and somehow make it work. I hope so, I'm not opposed to such games, but GW2 is a highly cooperative MMORPG that tries to eliminate most forms of griefing and barriers to people playing together. Given how much the genre has done in recent years to discourage cooperation, I'm glad for the change in direction.

    The reality is that community is very different than it was a decade ago. Trying to establish cooperative communities between competative factions in a more sandbox leaning title, with out their being more asshats than friendly competitors, is probably going to be close to impossible. It's doesn't become any easier when developers who try to introduce some logical system to combat "ass-hattery" get crucified for it, but that's a debate for elsewhere.

    I don't think we need to debate whether or not this is a PVP sandbox title, it clearly isn't a game grounded at the Sandbox end of the Theme Park vs. Sandbox spectrum. For people who actually appreciate what sandbox titles are like and have decided that's the only game type worthy of their time, more power to them, but what's the point of being a contrarian towards a game that does offer a heck of a lot to a lot of MMO fans and does indeed provide some compelling game design innovations?

    GW2 looks to be the game I have been waiting for for the last twelve years. I'm sorry if your wait looks to be longer, but Arenanet can't be expected to fix every aspect of the MMO genre with one game.

    Yep, I don't disagree with anything here, as you're right this game isn't trying to be that. I'm not saying they have to in order to offer a good PVP environment. I just felt you had the wrong idea of what PVP was like in older games. It was nothing like what you find in Mortal OL, DF, or a more thempark example like AOC, where the entire community seems to be overrun by asshats. I am aware that is most likely impossible to have anymore.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • fiontarfiontar Member UncommonPosts: 3,682

    Originally posted by Wickedjelly

    Originally posted by Distopia

    1.I don't think you could have played those games after reading this, as you really don't understand how it was. 

    2.If you take things said in PVP personal you really do need a system like this.

    The greatest thing about PVP in say SWG was that you knew your enemy, you spent your entire gaming life occupying the same areas, meeting the same people, and killing each other. It was competitive in a healthy way, because it was fun, which is what matters most in a game.

    What I miss most was the PVP events/scenarios. GEtting together with multiple guilds of each faction, creating a story (background for the battle) enlisting people into ranked positions, setting up goals (such as the empire has to reach player X and take him prisoner, then move him to position Y, the rebs have to stop them, or rescue him if they succeed). It was the most fun I ahve ever had in a game, and have not experienced it since.

    This was true community oriented game-play. WHile GW2 may be fun it will be nothing like that. We're going to be doing what the devs intend us to be doing, not what we make for ourselves, this is what is missing in the MMO world today, and GW2 definitely isn't bringing it back.

     

    Is it even realistic to think it can be though? I mean lets get real here. The player base is not the same as it was years ago. I mean in most of these newer mmos you don't even have much of a community presence even on an individual's server let alone game wide. I'm really not sure regardless what a dev does if those days are ever going to come back. Least not in a themepark oriented game.

    Sure you have individuals that maintain one but a community presence like in the older games? I'm not sure you're going to see that unless the overall emphasis of the game is about completing objectives, events, quests, whatever as a team. Even then I'm not sure how your average modern day gamer is going to react and interact from a community perspective. Not to mention how well the game will do from a profitability standpoint that I believe is the reason so many devs shy away from going that route.

    We agree on communities.

    Arenanet are taking the approach that if they remove the design elements that actually have taught people to not be cooperative, people who have something better in their personal nature will be able to unlearn their bad habits and find that playing cooperatively is fun and rewarding.

    Maybe a Sanbox game will do the same thing from the other end of the MMO design spectrum. I hope so, but that has nothing to do with GW2 and it's pointless to debate how one would or would not do so with a Sandbox title.

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
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  • fiontarfiontar Member UncommonPosts: 3,682

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by fiontar

     

    You want a Sandbox PvP game. Unfortunately, there have been a few of those in recent years and none, aside from EVE, have thrived, or even survived. Maybe some developer as talented and commited to innovation as Arenanet will take up the the task of producing a great Sandbox MMO with Open World PVP and somehow make it work. I hope so, I'm not opposed to such games, but GW2 is a highly cooperative MMORPG that tries to eliminate most forms of griefing and barriers to people playing together. Given how much the genre has done in recent years to discourage cooperation, I'm glad for the change in direction.

    The reality is that community is very different than it was a decade ago. Trying to establish cooperative communities between competative factions in a more sandbox leaning title, with out their being more asshats than friendly competitors, is probably going to be close to impossible. It's doesn't become any easier when developers who try to introduce some logical system to combat "ass-hattery" get crucified for it, but that's a debate for elsewhere.

    I don't think we need to debate whether or not this is a PVP sandbox title, it clearly isn't a game grounded at the Sandbox end of the Theme Park vs. Sandbox spectrum. For people who actually appreciate what sandbox titles are like and have decided that's the only game type worthy of their time, more power to them, but what's the point of being a contrarian towards a game that does offer a heck of a lot to a lot of MMO fans and does indeed provide some compelling game design innovations?

    GW2 looks to be the game I have been waiting for for the last twelve years. I'm sorry if your wait looks to be longer, but Arenanet can't be expected to fix every aspect of the MMO genre with one game.

    Yep, I don't disagree with anything here, as you're right this game isn't trying to be that. I'm not saying they have to in order to offer a good PVP environment. I just felt you had the wrong idea of what PVP was like in older games. It was nothing like what you find in Mortal OL, DF, or a more thempark example like AOC, where the entire community seems to be overrun by asshats. I am aware that is most likely impossible to have anymore.



    I played a good amount of SWG PVP and experienced a lot of OWPVP playing Anarchy Online. I'm not sure the current MMO community could ever support or provide the experience I had back then in a similar game today. However, that really isn't relavent to GW2 and is pointless to debate here.

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
    image

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by fiontar

     



    I played a good amount of SWG PVP and experienced a lot of OWPVP playing Anarchy Online. I'm not sure the current MMO community could ever support or provide the experience I had back then in a similar game today. However, that really isn't relavent to GW2 and is pointless to debate here.

    Well I was talking about GW2 initially in that it wasn't going to facilitate those kind of options. I'm not trying to turn this into a sandbox debate at all. I was just replying to a segment of your post on the subject.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • SteazySteazy Member Posts: 39

    I personally cant wait to play it.  The B2P model is really the way games should be now days.  I use to feel good about paying 15 bucks a month like 10 years ago.  You knew that it was going toward having a solid infrastructure day to day so you could play when you want.  The way technology is now days the only way i could see paying a sub fee of 15 would be for the greatest sandbox type game made to date.  Having a badas* sandbox p2p and GW2 B2P would be the ultimate for me lol.....

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