You seem to think they are losing them willy nilly, I am showing you evidance that shows otherwise.
Dude, that evidence shows nothing except what we all already know. Feel free to check my post hstory to see if I ever questioned the 1.7 million statement. I never have.
What I question is the magical retention rate percentage that posters came up with on their own and was never said by Bioware. Because it is simply ridiculous and they had no set number to base it off of. Pure assumption and conjecture.
According to VG Charts the game sold 2.1 million copies.
Unless you want a 100% exact estiment.
What does 2.1 million mean actually, it certainly does not equate to current subs, because they said on Feb 1st there were 1.7million, so if we want to extrapolate numbers from that they are losing 400k subs a month
According to VG Charts the game sold 2.1 million copies.
Unless you want a 100% exact estiment.
W...t...f...does that have to do with anything?
Again I never questioned overall sales of the game. But feel free to keep posting numbers relating to that.
The majority of the 1.7 million were paid subbers. No clear cut number that's it. From there people made their asinine percentage and mathematical queries. Majority could have meant 900k for all the hell we know. The point is we don't.
...and I somehow highly doubt it was at 80%. For reasons I mentioned before.
You want to think I hate or am dissing this game that's fine. Feel free to. You wouldn't be the first one. I'm just telling you like it is. Do I know what the percentage is? No. Never claimed to but I may as well throw numbers around too if you're going to use that as somehow being proof what the rate is at.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
You seem to think they are losing them willy nilly, I am showing you evidance that shows otherwise.
Dude, that evidence shows nothing except what we all already know. Feel free to check my post hstory to see if I ever questioned the 1.7 million statement. I never have.
What I question is the magical retention rate percentage that posters came up with on their own and was never said by Bioware. Because it is simply ridiculous and they had no set number to base it off of. Pure assumption and conjecture.
This is the whole point of contention here, no one here has ever said that they did not have 1.7 million, what we are saying is that there is no way there are now 1.7 million playing. The server loads do not reflect this in any way shape or form, people are bailing quick and as more hit 50 the more that will leave.
Server load is a poor way of messureing things. That and post launch the uped the server cap, so while you see a shit ton of heavy/very heavly/ fulls it was all inflated.
So when all the servers show standard and light we are to believe the game is not losing subs, got ya
According to VG Charts the game sold 2.1 million copies.
Unless you want a 100% exact estiment.
W...t...f...does that have to do with anything?
Again I never questioned overall sales of the game. But feel free to keep posting numbers relating to that.
The majority of the 1.7 million were paid subbers. No clear cut number that's it. From there people made their asinine percentage and mathematical queries. Majority could have meant 900k for all the hell we know. The point is we don't.
You marginalizing what most means and saying, "Well that could mean 900K". Do you realize how this makes you look?
You accuse me of playing numbers games then turn around and go all Bill Clinton on me. When people say most, they generally mean MOST.
Tell me is 5.2 out of 10 (The number you listed scaled) most?
You seem to think they are losing them willy nilly, I am showing you evidance that shows otherwise.
Dude, that evidence shows nothing except what we all already know. Feel free to check my post hstory to see if I ever questioned the 1.7 million statement. I never have.
What I question is the magical retention rate percentage that posters came up with on their own and was never said by Bioware. Because it is simply ridiculous and they had no set number to base it off of. Pure assumption and conjecture.
This is the whole point of contention here, no one here has ever said that they did not have 1.7 million, what we are saying is that there is no way there are now 1.7 million playing. The server loads do not reflect this in any way shape or form, people are bailing quick and as more hit 50 the more that will leave.
Server load is a poor way of messureing things. That and post launch the uped the server cap, so while you see a shit ton of heavy/very heavly/ fulls it was all inflated.
So when all the servers show standard and light we are to believe the game is not losing subs, got ya
During prime time? no not at all only like 10 servers are light (Though I think those need to be merged.).
Also I never said the game wasn't losing subs. Just not as fast as AOC or WAR did, maybe RIFT but sure as hell not WAR or AOC.
You marginalizing what most means and saying, "Well that could mean 900K". Do you realize how this makes you look?
You accuse me of playing numbers games then turn around and go all Bill Clinton on me. When people say most, they generally mean MOST.
Tell me is 5.2 out of 10 (The number you listed scaled) most?
It was an arbitrary number to show that the majority could mean any value over 50% but I like how you skipped over the part that I said we have no clue. Yes, instead focus on that part.
Alright, I'm done. In fact, just go higher than 80% if it makes you feel better. Why not?
Not sure why I care anyways. The next quarter will be out soon enough to but this bs to rest.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
My personal opinion is <500k just because I can't see it being suistainable in long-term simply for the fact that it just focuses too much on story while not giving attention to parts that give it the definition of MMOrpg. I am sure pvp will improve and more content will be added during the coming months but severe damage has already been done to the title in its initial stage. On top of it all, we still see generic gameplay mechanics and the game reportedly missing basic social functions.
Now if you take into account probably by far the biggest factor, where we have titles like GW2, Tera and The Secret World maybe even Archeage?) being out within the next year, with each offering something unique to the genre, even if SWTOR gets an overhaul it really needs to compete, it will just be too late by that time. I doubt even expansions will save the game.
I am just being a realist.
My counter argument to this is that none of those games offer what is in reality on of the biggest draws for SWTOR, it being SWTOR by Bioware.
Look how poor SWG was from a subjective POV, the only things to really do in it was Crafter or space combat.
Sure they might lose all the people looking for something new (assuming they havn't already left), but how many people want an MMO by Bioware, or a Star Wars MMO?
Yes that is true. However, even given THAT fact, we see ppl complaining saying "what do I do after reaching 50?" or "The world is generic and lifeless" or "so much cinematics i skip thru them. Spacebar is my favourite feature in game (sorry couldnt resist that last part :P)" or "its not really MMO. I feel like im playing single player with social hubs attached" or "PvP is lacking and exploitable" or "These issues havent been fixed since the time I reported them back during beta" ..and the list continues.
It is really testing out and shaking Bioware foundations in the mmorpg world. People are beginning to realise that it is just not enough to have Star Wars and Bioware in the same line when the game is having problems in dozens of areas.
IMHO, only the most hardcore Star Wars fans will stay in game.
Theres plenty to do at end game, Granted its more of the same but that doesn't take away from the fact thats its still there. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=225858, I'm on jedi convanat and spend 90% of my time talkin on /1 and Do not hear any major complaining and I find thta the complaining on the forum is inconsistant with the complaining in the actually game (If you where around doing WAR's launch you'd see what I mean).
I actually have to yell at people to hit spacebar during cinimatics.
I am honestly not trying to sound fanboish here but I just don't see these things outside of the TOR Gen forums or here.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VascyLfpNrI (Play it) Im sorry Im not seeing any of this, and I am by no means saying that this game is going to have millions of subs tomorrow. But to say that this game will have less then 400k subs is redonculus RIFT still has about 300k subs, SWG managed 300k subs pre-NGE (AKA When the game was slightly more playable.). With the SW IP and Bioware being a rather competant developer I see no reason how this game can't get at least 800k subs, I fail to how that is a failure.
We are talking about <500k but that is not the point here. I hear stories on this site of ppl leaving SWTOR for Rift...now why would they do that when SWTOR has Star Wars and Bioware and tons of story behind the game? IMO it is because Rift, while not being overly unique (though without a doubt, rift mechanic is a huge draw to the game), has a more sense of being an MMO and is still considered to be one of the more polished AAA mmo out there. The thing is, it just does not matter in the ***long term*** (1 year + ) whether the game has Star Wars and Bioware behind it.
Yes there are still thousands upon thousands of ppl enjoying SWTOR. That is pretty much a fact. The question is, will these people continue playing SWTOR after they played the game with 2,3,4 or 5 lvl 50 alts in the long run? Yes, for those who enjoy pvp, these people will continue playing. How about for those that never touch pvp? What does the game have to offer for the next year or two besides ofc the developers adding in pve content?
You may talk about the side quests and all that, but they too grow tired esp given the fact that nothing new hasnt been done that is radically different from other mmo games besides slapping on more unneccessary cinematics.
Please dont get me wrong as I am trying to look at this as realistically as I can without bashing on the game or anything. Last thing I want is a full on war with swearing and caps everywhere lol.
Though it is nice to discuss this in the most neutral and objective way as possible.
It is these challenges that Bioware is facing and needs to deal with to ensure a healthy amount of subs for this game.
You seem to think they are losing them willy nilly, I am showing you evidance that shows otherwise.
Dude, that evidence shows nothing except what we all already know. Feel free to check my post hstory to see if I ever questioned the 1.7 million statement. I never have.
What I question is the magical retention rate percentage that posters came up with on their own and was never said by Bioware. Because it is simply ridiculous and they had no set number to base it off of. Pure assumption and conjecture.
This is the whole point of contention here, no one here has ever said that they did not have 1.7 million, what we are saying is that there is no way there are now 1.7 million playing. The server loads do not reflect this in any way shape or form, people are bailing quick and as more hit 50 the more that will leave.
Server load is a poor way of messureing things. That and post launch the uped the server cap, so while you see a shit ton of heavy/very heavly/ fulls it was all inflated.
So when all the servers show standard and light we are to believe the game is not losing subs, got ya
During prime time? no not at all only like 10 servers are light (Though I think those need to be merged.).
Also I never said the game wasn't losing subs. Just not as fast as AOC or WAR did, maybe RIFT but sure as hell not WAR or AOC.
Actually 20 servers were light during primetime tonight go back and look at my post showing that.
One of the resons some people are reporting seeing more people in their faction hub is because alot of people left their dead servers to join more active ones, therefore 'some' servers are seeing an increase.
Overall though my opinion is the game will continue to decline even after patch 1.2. Keep in mind every MMO advertises a future patch that will make things great, it's nothing new and after 1.2 comes out, guess what, they will start hyping patch 1.3. How many times can you swallow that line by an MMO dev and still find yourself believing it?. I say this because the designers/programmers that are creating this upcoming patch are the SAME ones that took 5 years to give us the garbage we got on release date.
Finally when all else fails just look at the game itself, it is, in my opinion the most boring MMO i've ever played as well as the most uninspired and uninventive in so many ways it's not even funny. You've heard of games release before thier time well this is a game that was released after it's time. If I could take this game and go back to maybe 2002 or 2003 people would expect this type of game. This game does not belong in 2012 it belongs in 2003.
I look at Swtor as a game that, if it didn't have the Stars Wars IP would truely be in the FTP category quite soon an since there really isn't much of a Star Wars feel I can say it belongs at the bottom of that bin right now. Mind you I'm a Valor rank 64 and have supported this game since launch. This is the first weekend where I didn't touch the game and all and I can truely say I dont miss it one bit.
Well they are going to open in Asia soon, and that will bring probably 500k-1 million more subs in from what it currently is. I say they keep around 200-300k from Asia and then keep around 550k from US/Europe (about a third) to end up around 700-800k in a year, maybe more.
I put 900k, but only because of all of the new releases this year. I think next year will be the big year for ToR content wise. I really have faith that Bioware is going to crank out some amazing content for years to come.
there is ZERO chance for a high quality high budget expansion.
I'll remember you said that. I have my "I told ya so" ready for you.
I put 900k, but only because of all of the new releases this year. I think next year will be the big year for ToR content wise. I really have faith that Bioware is going to crank out some amazing content for years to come.
there is ZERO chance for a high quality high budget expansion.
I'll remember you said that. I have my "I told ya so" ready for you.
Unfortanately you will have to save the " I told ya so " line for the next game!
I would give you a guest pass to SWOTR, but then I wouldn't be able to find a way to live with myself afterwards....
I see this one going way below 500k... I am thinking maybe 50 - 60k. When SWG was killed, so were many of the fanboys that would've supported this heap. Thus, 58k subs and 5 servers.
i still play. i don't like the game overly much, but the story thing does keep you interested. it's like a tv series you're not overly into but want to see how it ends.
my wife and i are happy to keep paying until we've reached 50, then maybe see if we want to try two other classes and see their story. see, despite the fact it's an awfully designed game, the story element isn't so bad. not the greatest story and the endless boring sidequests are irritating to have to do, but it keeps us entertained.
absolutely we're hanging on for gw2, but that's not here right now. this is. might as well enjoy what you have when you have it. no game can be 100% awesome. no doubt some elements of gw2 are going to be awful, too. and sure swtor has more elements which are awful than most new games. it may not have longevity. but it's not the worst game i've ever played.
I don't think it has a chance to have more than 500k a year from now - too many big name mmo's coming out this year to pull fans away. Perhaps it would survive that with a healthy player base if it was a really high quality product, but it really is mediocre at best.
I would say in the 5k 10k absolute max, more or less range like WAR, which is pretty much the same game made by the same people minus a linear story and a few people.
Over 60% say less than 500k. That is kind of telling about the longetivity of this game.
Personally I think it will go the same route as WAR with maybe 300k after a year and will continue to drop to maybe 100k. Possibly it will go F2P but seeing as EA is running WAR and that game is still not F2P I dont think this will be either.
Shame really to see these magnificent IPs be turned into simplistic ThemeParks with poor longetivity.
Over 60% say less than 500k. That is kind of telling about the longetivity of this game.
Personally I think it will go the same route as WAR with maybe 300k after a year and will continue to drop to maybe 100k. Possibly it will go F2P but seeing as EA is running WAR and that game is still not F2P I dont think this will be either.
Shame really to see these magnificent IPs be turned into simplistic ThemeParks with poor longetivity.
This is MMORPG.com, honestly I thought it was going to be a lot more.
If this site was ever correct WoW would have died and bleed subs like crazy post cata.
Over 60% say less than 500k. That is kind of telling about the longetivity of this game.
Personally I think it will go the same route as WAR with maybe 300k after a year and will continue to drop to maybe 100k. Possibly it will go F2P but seeing as EA is running WAR and that game is still not F2P I dont think this will be either.
Shame really to see these magnificent IPs be turned into simplistic ThemeParks with poor longetivity.
This is MMORPG.com, honestly I thought it was going to be a lot more.
If this site was ever correct WoW would have died and bleed subs like crazy post cata.
How do you figure? WoW got a user-score of 8.1 on this site and that is quite respectable.
Over 60% say less than 500k. That is kind of telling about the longetivity of this game.
Personally I think it will go the same route as WAR with maybe 300k after a year and will continue to drop to maybe 100k. Possibly it will go F2P but seeing as EA is running WAR and that game is still not F2P I dont think this will be either.
Shame really to see these magnificent IPs be turned into simplistic ThemeParks with poor longetivity.
In this case it's more of a Single player game with multiplayer aspects on Rails i should say since you are directed even with invisible walls to the only locations you can really go. It was an explorer's disappointment to see that in a game that came out so recently. I was disappointed by this info because of the year it was released and because this was something that a F2P game would do not a AAA title.
800,000 seems to be realistic figure. Too many people have been quiting, because their friends or guild mates are quiting and a lot of people are just using it as filler until one of the big 3 come out. Most noteably GW2.
What are you talking about GW2 is a filler till AA.
i lol'd so hard at this. you realize AA wont hit NA for another 5 years? the TERA conversion took like 2-3 years. even when it does, its quality will be questionable.
Comments
What does 2.1 million mean actually, it certainly does not equate to current subs, because they said on Feb 1st there were 1.7million, so if we want to extrapolate numbers from that they are losing 400k subs a month
W...t...f...does that have to do with anything?
Again I never questioned overall sales of the game. But feel free to keep posting numbers relating to that.
The majority of the 1.7 million were paid subbers. No clear cut number that's it. From there people made their asinine percentage and mathematical queries. Majority could have meant 900k for all the hell we know. The point is we don't.
...and I somehow highly doubt it was at 80%. For reasons I mentioned before.
You want to think I hate or am dissing this game that's fine. Feel free to. You wouldn't be the first one. I'm just telling you like it is. Do I know what the percentage is? No. Never claimed to but I may as well throw numbers around too if you're going to use that as somehow being proof what the rate is at.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
So when all the servers show standard and light we are to believe the game is not losing subs, got ya
You marginalizing what most means and saying, "Well that could mean 900K". Do you realize how this makes you look?
You accuse me of playing numbers games then turn around and go all Bill Clinton on me. When people say most, they generally mean MOST.
Tell me is 5.2 out of 10 (The number you listed scaled) most?
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
During prime time? no not at all only like 10 servers are light (Though I think those need to be merged.).
Also I never said the game wasn't losing subs. Just not as fast as AOC or WAR did, maybe RIFT but sure as hell not WAR or AOC.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
It was an arbitrary number to show that the majority could mean any value over 50% but I like how you skipped over the part that I said we have no clue. Yes, instead focus on that part.
Alright, I'm done. In fact, just go higher than 80% if it makes you feel better. Why not?
Not sure why I care anyways. The next quarter will be out soon enough to but this bs to rest.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
We are talking about <500k but that is not the point here. I hear stories on this site of ppl leaving SWTOR for Rift...now why would they do that when SWTOR has Star Wars and Bioware and tons of story behind the game? IMO it is because Rift, while not being overly unique (though without a doubt, rift mechanic is a huge draw to the game), has a more sense of being an MMO and is still considered to be one of the more polished AAA mmo out there. The thing is, it just does not matter in the ***long term*** (1 year + ) whether the game has Star Wars and Bioware behind it.
Yes there are still thousands upon thousands of ppl enjoying SWTOR. That is pretty much a fact. The question is, will these people continue playing SWTOR after they played the game with 2,3,4 or 5 lvl 50 alts in the long run? Yes, for those who enjoy pvp, these people will continue playing. How about for those that never touch pvp? What does the game have to offer for the next year or two besides ofc the developers adding in pve content?
You may talk about the side quests and all that, but they too grow tired esp given the fact that nothing new hasnt been done that is radically different from other mmo games besides slapping on more unneccessary cinematics.
Please dont get me wrong as I am trying to look at this as realistically as I can without bashing on the game or anything. Last thing I want is a full on war with swearing and caps everywhere lol.
Though it is nice to discuss this in the most neutral and objective way as possible.
It is these challenges that Bioware is facing and needs to deal with to ensure a healthy amount of subs for this game.
Looking forward to EQL and EQN.
Actually 20 servers were light during primetime tonight go back and look at my post showing that.
One of the resons some people are reporting seeing more people in their faction hub is because alot of people left their dead servers to join more active ones, therefore 'some' servers are seeing an increase.
Overall though my opinion is the game will continue to decline even after patch 1.2. Keep in mind every MMO advertises a future patch that will make things great, it's nothing new and after 1.2 comes out, guess what, they will start hyping patch 1.3. How many times can you swallow that line by an MMO dev and still find yourself believing it?. I say this because the designers/programmers that are creating this upcoming patch are the SAME ones that took 5 years to give us the garbage we got on release date.
Finally when all else fails just look at the game itself, it is, in my opinion the most boring MMO i've ever played as well as the most uninspired and uninventive in so many ways it's not even funny. You've heard of games release before thier time well this is a game that was released after it's time. If I could take this game and go back to maybe 2002 or 2003 people would expect this type of game. This game does not belong in 2012 it belongs in 2003.
I look at Swtor as a game that, if it didn't have the Stars Wars IP would truely be in the FTP category quite soon an since there really isn't much of a Star Wars feel I can say it belongs at the bottom of that bin right now. Mind you I'm a Valor rank 64 and have supported this game since launch. This is the first weekend where I didn't touch the game and all and I can truely say I dont miss it one bit.
Well they are going to open in Asia soon, and that will bring probably 500k-1 million more subs in from what it currently is. I say they keep around 200-300k from Asia and then keep around 550k from US/Europe (about a third) to end up around 700-800k in a year, maybe more.
I'll remember you said that. I have my "I told ya so" ready for you.
Unfortanately you will have to save the " I told ya so " line for the next game!
I would give you a guest pass to SWOTR, but then I wouldn't be able to find a way to live with myself afterwards....
I see this one going way below 500k... I am thinking maybe 50 - 60k. When SWG was killed, so were many of the fanboys that would've supported this heap. Thus, 58k subs and 5 servers.
[mod edit]
i still play. i don't like the game overly much, but the story thing does keep you interested. it's like a tv series you're not overly into but want to see how it ends.
my wife and i are happy to keep paying until we've reached 50, then maybe see if we want to try two other classes and see their story. see, despite the fact it's an awfully designed game, the story element isn't so bad. not the greatest story and the endless boring sidequests are irritating to have to do, but it keeps us entertained.
absolutely we're hanging on for gw2, but that's not here right now. this is. might as well enjoy what you have when you have it. no game can be 100% awesome. no doubt some elements of gw2 are going to be awful, too. and sure swtor has more elements which are awful than most new games. it may not have longevity. but it's not the worst game i've ever played.
I don't think it has a chance to have more than 500k a year from now - too many big name mmo's coming out this year to pull fans away. Perhaps it would survive that with a healthy player base if it was a really high quality product, but it really is mediocre at best.
I would say in the 5k 10k absolute max, more or less range like WAR, which is pretty much the same game made by the same people minus a linear story and a few people.
Over 60% say less than 500k. That is kind of telling about the longetivity of this game.
Personally I think it will go the same route as WAR with maybe 300k after a year and will continue to drop to maybe 100k. Possibly it will go F2P but seeing as EA is running WAR and that game is still not F2P I dont think this will be either.
Shame really to see these magnificent IPs be turned into simplistic ThemeParks with poor longetivity.
My gaming blog
This is MMORPG.com, honestly I thought it was going to be a lot more.
If this site was ever correct WoW would have died and bleed subs like crazy post cata.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
How do you figure? WoW got a user-score of 8.1 on this site and that is quite respectable.
My gaming blog
I'm pretty sure that was the posting cop-out: "When people disagree with me I insist the forum population is the vocal minority."
In this case it's more of a Single player game with multiplayer aspects on Rails i should say since you are directed even with invisible walls to the only locations you can really go. It was an explorer's disappointment to see that in a game that came out so recently. I was disappointed by this info because of the year it was released and because this was something that a F2P game would do not a AAA title.
i lol'd so hard at this. you realize AA wont hit NA for another 5 years? the TERA conversion took like 2-3 years. even when it does, its quality will be questionable.
Is there a prize?