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Sandbox Travel

CuathonCuathon University City, NYMember Posts: 2,211

I've been slacking hellas on the TTS threads lately. Time to talk about travel. In previous threads I addressed air sea and land vehicles. And levitation. Now I want to talk about person based travel.

Let's start with climbing. I want to implement a nice mountain hill and wall climbing system.

So first we have crafting. You can craft various ropes and wires and pitons and so forth for use in climbing. You can also make special shoes and gloves.

Essentially you have a climbing skill and then material skills. So various things like wood/metal/stone/ice and so forth for climbing. You gain climbing skill from al climbing and you gain more points for climbing subskills based on materials.

Shoes and gloves give you bonuses to climbing and some enchantments like earth bond have great bonuses to climbing.

These various bonuses contribute to minimizing fall chances. So if you have good gear and skills you can climb a 300 foot high sheer face of ice no worries, but if you don't its risky.

Pitons and ropes and wires allow you to sort of save progress. So if you slip you will fall to the ground or your closest piton. Certain ropes and wires and so forth can support longer or fasters falls and on people with heavier weights. Pitons of higher quality hold better also if you fall.

Spells like earth bind can make a piton basically part of the face so that it will never fall out and earth adhesion allows you better grip in conjunction with shoes and gloves.

Various other spells and enchantments affect climbing directly or indirectly but thats beyond the scope of this thread.

You can do things like set up permanent climbing routes, or even set up stairs and such later on. Players can also do zipline type things and set up various kinds of bridges across crevasses and canyons. Bridges also work with rivers and such as well. I won't go into as much detail on bridges, its much easier to imagine.

Other travel methods include tunnels which can go flat or even up and down, so eventually you might create stairs in a mountain instead of climbing it, and things like that. Tunnels can also be hewn THROUGH mountains and hills as short cuts.

I kinda thought it would be fun to implement skis, for fast getaways on mountains and such, but that may be too hard. We will see.

 

As a general query:

Do you want to have climbing in a game?

What other kinds of travel would you like to see?

How do you feel about the above climbing system in particular?

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Comments

  • xDayxxDayx St Charles, MOMember Posts: 712

    I like the ideas. Permanent climbing routes, in time, should never be permament. There should be durability on the items or wear over time on such stairs so that the landscape doesnt become a trash mountain. So maybe a decay time or pure durability when its being stepped on.

    As far as other travel..Carriages, Boats big and small, horses, dare I say rickshaws? 

     

  • FrostWyrmFrostWyrm Tempe, AZMember Posts: 1,036

    I've been suggesting climbing in MMOs for years now. I'm amazed none of the big fish devs ever thought this would be a good idea. I also miss the practical implementation of swimming.

    Speaking of travel, I'd like to suggest that mounds dont have to be the only way of getting around more quickly. Why not have abilities that can get you from point A to point B as well? I'm thinking travel powers like City of Heroes had (in addition to, not instead of mounts), only something more befitting to the theme of the game.

  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYMember Posts: 2,211

    Originally posted by xDayx

    I like the ideas. Permanent climbing routes, in time, should never be permament. There should be durability on the items or wear over time on such stairs so that the landscape doesnt become a trash mountain. So maybe a decay time or pure durability when its being stepped on.
    As far as other travel..Carriages, Boats big and small, horses, dare I say rickshaws? 
     

    My bad, all items in TTS have decay. By permanent I meant more like maintained so that each person doesn't have to set up ropes and pitons each time.

    I already did a big write up on airships gliders ships and caravans and carts and such. I am more referring to foot travel and such.

    I intend to have many many sizes of mounts and many sizes of boats with many methods of propulsion. There aren't any templates per say, you just put materials together and pick a propulsion method. Well I will make a small number of templates for lazy mofos.

  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYMember Posts: 2,211

    Originally posted by FrostWyrm

    I've been suggesting climbing in MMOs for years now. I'm amazed none of the big fish devs ever thought this would be a good idea. I also miss the practical implementation of swimming.
    Speaking of travel, I'd like to suggest that mounds dont have to be the only way of getting around more quickly. Why not have abilities that can get you from point A to point B as well? I'm thinking travel powers like City of Heroes had (in addition to, not instead of mounts), only something more befitting to the theme of the game.

    You can build land sailers, wagons, some magically mobile stuff. Mounts are captured in the wild or bred and there are many many kinds.

    I discussed Paths in the other travel thread. There may be some other methods but they will not be at all common.

  • just1opinionjust1opinion Kansas City, MOMember Posts: 4,844 Common

    Originally posted by FrostWyrm

    I've been suggesting climbing in MMOs for years now. I'm amazed none of the big fish devs ever thought this would be a good idea. I also miss the practical implementation of swimming.
    Speaking of travel, I'd like to suggest that mounds dont have to be the only way of getting around more quickly. Why not have abilities that can get you from point A to point B as well? I'm thinking travel powers like City of Heroes had (in addition to, not instead of mounts), only something more befitting to the theme of the game.

     

    Everquest 2 has climbing, cliff climbing, to be more precise, not mountain climbing per se, but still....it's fun.  You have to climb cliffs at various places to quest, or find cities and other things.  As a matter of fact, EQ2 has a lot of small interesting things other MMOs don't have.  However, they also have SoE, sadly, which is often as bad as good.....no, probably more bad than good. :(

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  • rounnerrounner CanberraMember Posts: 637 Uncommon

    Originally posted by Cuathon

     
     Tunnels can also be hewn THROUGH mountains and hills as short cuts.
     

    You're writing a voxelated terrain engine for an mmo or are you using tricks like a tile set of tunnels?

  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYMember Posts: 2,211

    Originally posted by rounner


    Originally posted by Cuathon


     
     Tunnels can also be hewn THROUGH mountains and hills as short cuts.
     

    You're writing a voxelated terrain engine for an mmo or are you using tricks like a tile set of tunnels?

    I have a couple different things I am looking at, including voxels. The graphics are going to be pretty low quality compared to say, EvE or AoC. You have to sac graphics for various things like lots of players and creatures on  screen and so forth anyways.

  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYMember Posts: 2,211

    Originally posted by just1opinion


    Originally posted by FrostWyrm


    I've been suggesting climbing in MMOs for years now. I'm amazed none of the big fish devs ever thought this would be a good idea. I also miss the practical implementation of swimming.
    Speaking of travel, I'd like to suggest that mounds dont have to be the only way of getting around more quickly. Why not have abilities that can get you from point A to point B as well? I'm thinking travel powers like City of Heroes had (in addition to, not instead of mounts), only something more befitting to the theme of the game.

     

    Everquest 2 has climbing, cliff climbing, to be more precise, not mountain climbing per se, but still....it's fun.  You have to climb cliffs at various places to quest, or find cities and other things.  As a matter of fact, EQ2 has a lot of small interesting things other MMOs don't have.  However, they also have SoE, sadly, which is often as bad as good.....no, probably more bad than good. :(

    Well EQ2 has a good start. But I don't think you can scale any surface you choose. Iirc its specific climbing places set up by devs.

    Also about have SOE, that gives you a 50% cut off max awesome once all the features are added up.

  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYMember Posts: 2,211

    So based on tepid response, climbing not that important. Good to know, cause its  a pain to implement.

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownMember Posts: 3,452 Uncommon
    I like that in SWG you can go anywhere, even up steep cliffs, just very very slowly, it would be nice to see the mechanic change to climbing on the steep parts
  • quasi_deadquasi_dead LeedsMember Posts: 84

    I fully endorse climbing mechanics, with possible grappling hooks.

  • JohnnyBravolJohnnyBravol Toronto, ONMember Posts: 83

    I think implementing climbing is a fantastic idea. I love the systems you've described. Too many games are way too easy, climbing a mountain is supposed to be difficult. This would make the game a lot more like D and D, where the smaller stuff can actually be the most difficult, like climbing.

  • ClassicstarClassicstar rotjeknorMember Posts: 2,661 Uncommon

    So you ask if climbing is good implementation like you presented a few replys where not that positive and you giive up on idea?

    Ithink as you describe climbing its great idea not simply climb the mountain like most mmo's have now but realy climb it as in real life with special climbing gear and robes.

    We should have more of these detailed and deeper machanics in games.

    Like travel rivers in kanoos but before you can you have to chop a tree and with crafting skill build a kanoo boat and peddles and then travel the river like the idians did would be cool with all danger a river can give in such small boat.

    Or travel the world on bycle would also be nice. First building roads and then you can ride then build bycle though crafting skill.

    And all as detailed you discribed the climbing.

    So many ways games can be made more intresting and deeper gameplay.

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  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYMember Posts: 2,211

    Originally posted by JohnnyBravol

    I think implementing climbing is a fantastic idea. I love the systems you've described. Too many games are way too easy, climbing a mountain is supposed to be difficult. This would make the game a lot more like D and D, where the smaller stuff can actually be the most difficult, like climbing.

    I wanted the game to have things to do besides combat, and I wanted to fix overlooked things. In this case travel and exploration. Seriously running around flat plains and being able to go anywhere in the world in a few hours is silly.

    @quasi, there are grappling hooks, possibly rappeling, ladders, and all sorts of stuff. For both siege and explore and travel. You can also build lots of different kinds of bridges with ropes and such. Money bridges ftw.

    @forest-nl, that was just my excuse for a bump.

     

    Also if you read the other travel threads, specifically the one about airships and sailing, I kinda wanted to have actual sailing stuff in the game. Optionally for a speed boost as opposed to mandatory. So tacking and using the rudder and such like. And dealing with the ropes on the air ship and managing fuel and what not. I dunno though a lot of people say minigames get boring after a while, which is mainly why I put in the option to ignore the minigame but go slower.

  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYMember Posts: 2,211

    Originally posted by forest-nl

    So you ask if climbing is good implementation like you presented a few replys where not that positive and you giive up on idea?
    Ithink as you describe climbing its great idea not simply climb the mountain like most mmo's have now but realy climb it as in real life with special climbing gear and robes.
    We should have more of these detailed and deeper machanics in games.
    Like travel rivers in kanoos but before you can you have to chop a tree and with crafting skill build a kanoo boat and peddles and then travel the river like the idians did would be cool with all danger a river can give in such small boat.
    Or travel the world on bycle would also be nice. First building roads and then you can ride then build bycle though crafting skill.
    And all as detailed you discribed the climbing.
    So many ways games can be made more intresting and deeper gameplay.
     

    Replies were all postive just only had a few. No bikes for TTS cause middle ages though. Canoes* will happen. I was thinking of having like river currents and rapids and crap and if you mess up you break the canoe or raft or w/e you have to travel by land. And water travel is much faster. The only thing is, a lot of stuff I wanna do requires long play times. In TTS your character doesn't log out, if you have to go you need to find a place to hide or be safe and your guy has some scripting to control actions if you are offline and get attacked. Although in offline mode you aren't going to be able to use clever tricks to fend of dragons or w/e.

    I thought a lot about having characters do the typical disappearing while players are logged off but it just is too against the idea of the game.

  • MendelMendel Marietta, GAMember Posts: 1,324 Uncommon

    I see that this topic started on mountain climbing and pretty much stayed there.  I'm not as interested in mountain climbing, as mountains are frequently used as impassible terrain marking the edge of the world in MMORPGs.  Giving players a method to circimvent the game boundries is pretty dangerous.

    But, there are other types of climbing.  Climbing a tree and climbing to the top of a house.  Both are different activities, using different techniques.   Both of these types of climbing are much more controllable than mountain climbing.

    Other forms of human travel that could be included in MMORPGs are crawling (knees) and crawling (belly).  Especially in a modern environment belly crawling is used to present the lowest possible target profile.   Also gymnastics, as the ability to contrort and twist the body in air, should be incorporated.  Currently, every game will only allow a jump (from a diving board) to go feet first.  I'd like to be able to turn over in a proper dive and dive head-first into water.  Turning a flip in air would also be nice.

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYMember Posts: 2,211

    Originally posted by Mendel

    I see that this topic started on mountain climbing and pretty much stayed there.  I'm not as interested in mountain climbing, as mountains are frequently used as impassible terrain marking the edge of the world in MMORPGs.  Giving players a method to circimvent the game boundries is pretty dangerous.
    But, there are other types of climbing.  Climbing a tree and climbing to the top of a house.  Both are different activities, using different techniques.   Both of these types of climbing are much more controllable than mountain climbing.
    Other forms of human travel that could be included in MMORPGs are crawling (knees) and crawling (belly).  Especially in a modern environment belly crawling is used to present the lowest possible target profile.   Also gymnastics, as the ability to contrort and twist the body in air, should be incorporated.  Currently, every game will only allow a jump (from a diving board) to go feet first.  I'd like to be able to turn over in a proper dive and dive head-first into water.  Turning a flip in air would also be nice.

    Well this is mostly about stuff in TTS, or general sandbox games. And not themeparks. In a virtual world there is no need to have edges to the map. Defeats the whole purpose.

    You can climb trees with various methods:

    Throw rope around a branch being the obvious one, or climb from branch to branch. The real problem is mostly animations. Animations are the bane of game design.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAMember Posts: 14,247 Rare

    A good gauge of the value a monumental addition like this is the answer to "What is the purpose of climbing in your game?"

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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  • quasi_deadquasi_dead LeedsMember Posts: 84

    I would certainly welcome a system whereby different terrain/gradients would require a different level of skill. Craftable's also a great addition.  I'd be interested to see how you would link climbing skill to attributes, or indeed if you would not.  Climbing skill buffs/effects through magic or other various means would be cool.  I like the idea that climbing could be used to access out of reach areas and the such.  So I could make a Roc egg omlette.

  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYMember Posts: 2,211

    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    A good gauge of the value a monumental addition like this is the answer to "What is the purpose of climbing in your game?"
     

    Monumental is a bit of an overstatement don't you think?

     

    Climbing can be used for many purpose though. Finding a safe place to go to log off, since characters always stay existant in TTS, accessing areas you otherwise couldn't, just shortening travel distances in some cases, its also useful for combat, when raiding lairs you can get over the walls and so forth.

  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYMember Posts: 2,211

    Originally posted by quasi_dead

    I would certainly welcome a system whereby different terrain/gradients would require a different level of skill. Craftable's also a great addition.  I'd be interested to see how you would link climbing skill to attributes, or indeed if you would not.  Climbing skill buffs/effects through magic or other various means would be cool.  I like the idea that climbing could be used to access out of reach areas and the such.  So I could make a Roc egg omlette.

    TTS has no attributes. Just skill training. Different kinds of climbing, ice, stone, wood, dirt, and so forth require a different climbing subskill. So you have climbing and you get exp for that from all climbing and then you have substance specific skills that you only get and benefit from depending on what you are climbing.

    As far as gradients are concerned, I don't know how to manage that really. You would have to test the gradient on the fly I think. Its probably possible though, maybe just check an angle? I dunno.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAMember Posts: 3,828 Common

    Being an explorer kind of player, climbing would be good. Since you have the ropes incorporated already, what about swinging?

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYMember Posts: 2,211

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    Being an explorer kind of player, climbing would be good. Since you have the ropes incorporated already, what about swinging?

    Oh god swinging. I mean, I guess you can do swinging? Probably not a priority feature though.

  • ClassicstarClassicstar rotjeknorMember Posts: 2,661 Uncommon


    Originally posted by Cuathon

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky
    Being an explorer kind of player, climbing would be good. Since you have the ropes incorporated already, what about swinging?
    Oh god swinging. I mean, I guess you can do swinging? Probably not a priority feature though.


    I love the swimming in Darkfall you can swim anywhere no limits and with sharks or other dangerous sea monters who can attack you. Also travel by raft is awesome in Darkfall.

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  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYMember Posts: 2,211

    Originally posted by forest-nl

     


    Originally posted by Cuathon





    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    Being an explorer kind of player, climbing would be good. Since you have the ropes incorporated already, what about swinging?





    Oh god swinging. I mean, I guess you can do swinging? Probably not a priority feature though.






    I love the swimming in Darkfall you can swim anywhere no limits and with sharks or other dangerous sea monters who can attack you. Also travel by raft is awesome in Darkfall.

     

    No ocean swimming, as that is ridiculous. You can use swimming to travel across some rivers based on skill level vs current though. You can do some limited swimming in ocean, like what a normal human can do, maybe really high level can do swimming across say, english channel. I am thinking of some sort of swimming stamina, so if you run out you have to sit and float or something or swim slower or not swim that long and as swimming goes up you get more stamina.

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