I actually had the same concern too, because I love healing and always roll a healer in MMO's. This thread eased those concerns a bit, so thanks!
I thought mesmer looked kinda fun, but people are saying that guardian & sorc is the way to go if you're leaning towards the support role. So will I be gimped in the support front if I choose mesmer?
GW2 has a trinity function. Every Proffesion can fill any of the trinity roles depending on what weapons they have equiped.
Not quite actually.
The holy trinity is defined by dedicated roles:
1. Dedicated damage soaker (the Tank)
2. Dedicated damage dealers (the DPS)
3. Dedicated healer (the umm... Healer)
While GW2 has damage soaking, damage dealing and healing no class has the tools necessary to perform one role and role only. That is, there is no dedicated roles in GW2; everyone does everything all the time.
For example, a Water-specialized Elementalist might have more healing skills than the average character but they will never have enough healing skills to do nothing but heal nor are the heals strong enough that they would be able to keep people alive by themselves.
Similarly, a Shield-specialized Guardian might have more defensive abilities than the average character but they will never be able to take a beating indefinitely, even with another player healing them. They simply do not have enough defensive abilities to accomplish this.
In addition, many skills are multifunctional in their roles. An AoE spell might provide Regeneration to allies while at the same time Burning enemies(Support and Damage), or a Wall spell might provide Swiftness to allies but Cripples enemies (Support and Control).
Guild Wars 2 has a trifecta of general combat activites, Damage, Control and Support, but it does not have a trinity.
Originally posted by taulutussi
I thought mesmer looked kinda fun, but people are saying that guardian & sorc is the way to go if you're leaning towards the support role. So will I be gimped in the support front if I choose mesmer?
GW2 has a trinity function. Every Proffesion can fill any of the trinity roles depending on what weapons they have equiped.
Not quite actually.
The holy trinity is defined by dedicated roles:
1. Dedicated damage soaker (the Tank)
2. Dedicated damage dealers (the DPS)
3. Dedicated healer (the umm... Healer)
While GW2 has damage soaking, damage dealing and healing no class has the tools necessary to perform one role and role only. That is, there is no dedicated roles in GW2; everyone does everything all the time.
For example, a Water-specialized Elementalist might have more healing skills than the average character but they will never have enough healing skills to do nothing but heal nor are the heals strong enough that they would be able to keep people alive by themselves.
Similarly, a Shield-specialized Guardian might have more defensive abilities than the average character but they will never be able to take a beating indefinitely, even with another player healing them. They simply do not have enough defensive abilities to accomplish this.
In addition, many skills are multifunctional in their roles. An AoE spell might provide Regeneration to allies while at the same time Burning enemies(Support and Damage), or a Wall spell might provide Swiftness to allies but Cripples enemies (Support and Control).
Guild Wars 2 has a trifecta of general combat activites, Damage, Control and Support, but it does not have a trinity.
Originally posted by taulutussi
I thought mesmer looked kinda fun, but people are saying that guardian & sorc is the way to go if you're leaning towards the support role. So will I be gimped in the support front if I choose mesmer?
No you won't, you'll just be providing support in a different manner. While a Guardian might protect his allies by providing them with armor buffs and heals, a Mesmer can protect his allies by casting an nnvisibility spell on them or by creating an illusion that both attacks enemies and provides a protective bubble for allies to stand in.
Wrong! When you go into a dungeon you work out who will be deddicated to what roles.
Originally posted by Xzen Wrong! When you go into a dungeon you work out who will be deddicated to what roles.
Please do some research before spouting off nonsense.
Go read the reports form the Press Dungeon Event, watch Dungeon videos from this past weekend's beta or listen to gamebreaker.tv's interview with the system designers and you'll understand that classes simply cannot fulfill dedicated roles.
Originally posted by Xzen Wrong! When you go into a dungeon you work out who will be deddicated to what roles.
Please do some research before spouting off nonsense. Go read the reports form the Press Dungeon Event, watch Dungeon videos from this past weekend's beta or listen to gamebreaker.tv's interview with the system designers and you'll understand that class simply cannot fulfill dedicated roles. It is impossible.
I'm talking about what was seen and experienced in the press beta. If you don't organise and find out what people will be equipping themselves for aoe heals and tanking and control etc you will not do so well.
Originally posted by Xzen Wrong! When you go into a dungeon you work out who will be deddicated to what roles.
Please do some research before spouting off nonsense.
Go read the reports form the Press Dungeon Event, watch Dungeon videos from this past weekend's beta or listen to gamebreaker.tv's interview with the system designers and you'll understand that classes simply cannot fulfill dedicated roles.
Seriously, it's embarrasing.
Actually the developers did say that u can have dedicated roles, BUT no class has a dedicated role , each class can fill any role - that's the difference , this was said on the gamebreaker guildcast special by the devs
Originally posted by Xzen Wrong! When you go into a dungeon you work out who will be deddicated to what roles.
Please do some research before spouting off nonsense. Go read the reports form the Press Dungeon Event, watch Dungeon videos from this past weekend's beta or listen to gamebreaker.tv's interview with the system designers and you'll understand that class simply cannot fulfill dedicated roles. It is impossible.
I'm talking about what was seen and experienced in the press beta.
You are lying and I challenge you to give me one (1!) example of a dedicated anything.
Note that I am not talking about characters leaning towards one of the combat roles but actual dedicated roles, which you claim exist in the game.
Originally posted by majin690
Actually the developers did say that u can have dedicated roles, BUT no class has a dedicated role , each class can fill any role - that's the difference , this was said on the gamebreaker guildcast special by the devs
You misunderstood them. Go watch it again. They clearly say "There are no dedicated roles" and all the beta footage backs it up.
I'll give you the same challenge I gave Xzen. If either you finds concrete proof of a dedicated role I'll eat my words.
And just to clarify: Find one example of any class doing just healing/budding, just damage soaking, or just damage (this one is technically possible but you'd have to go out of your way to do it and you'll be severly gimping your character by placing restrictions on yourself in game that not only rewards but EXPECTS combat flexibility) .
I thought mesmer looked kinda fun, but people are saying that guardian & sorc is the way to go if you're leaning towards the support role. So will I be gimped in the support front if I choose mesmer?
Thanks mate, sounds really cool. I'm kind of keeping myself in an information blackout on this game because I don't want to get too hyped and have the wait to become so much worse
Originally posted by Xzen Wrong! When you go into a dungeon you work out who will be deddicated to what roles.
Please do some research before spouting off nonsense.
Go read the reports form the Press Dungeon Event, watch Dungeon videos from this past weekend's beta or listen to gamebreaker.tv's interview with the system designers and you'll understand that classes simply cannot fulfill dedicated roles.
Seriously, it's embarrasing.
Actually the developers did say that u can have dedicated roles, BUT no class has a dedicated role , each class can fill any role - that's the difference , this was said on the gamebreaker guildcast special by the devs
Originally posted by Xzen Wrong! When you go into a dungeon you work out who will be deddicated to what roles.
Please do some research before spouting off nonsense. Go read the reports form the Press Dungeon Event, watch Dungeon videos from this past weekend's beta or listen to gamebreaker.tv's interview with the system designers and you'll understand that class simply cannot fulfill dedicated roles. It is impossible.
I'm talking about what was seen and experienced in the press beta.
You are lying and I challenge you to give me one (1!) example of a dedicated anything.
Note that I am not talking about characters leaning towards one of the combat roles but actual dedicated roles, which you claim exist in the game.
Originally posted by majin690
Actually the developers did say that u can have dedicated roles, BUT no class has a dedicated role , each class can fill any role - that's the difference , this was said on the gamebreaker guildcast special by the devs
You misunderstood them. Go watch it again. They clearly say "There are no dedicated roles" and all the beta footage backs it up.
I'll give you the same challenge I gave Xzen. If either you finds concrete proof of a dedicated role I'll eat my words.
Na if you watch the BFF report by Mike B (from gamebreaker) when he is going through the dungeon , he explains clearly the holy trinity does not exist .. BUT every class can fill any role if they wish to. He said during his run they had one guy healing as a dedicated healer and another person offhealing so .. yes the holy trinity does not exist, but any class can fill ny of those 3 roles. Link - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SMYW3tvYeE&list=UUY-T9lDJ2Mcob5YslazNjBw&index=16&feature=plpp_video - Watch from 13.43
Originally posted by Xzen Wrong! When you go into a dungeon you work out who will be deddicated to what roles.
Please do some research before spouting off nonsense. Go read the reports form the Press Dungeon Event, watch Dungeon videos from this past weekend's beta or listen to gamebreaker.tv's interview with the system designers and you'll understand that class simply cannot fulfill dedicated roles. It is impossible.
I'm talking about what was seen and experienced in the press beta.
You are lying and I challenge you to give me one (1!) example of a dedicated anything.
Note that I am not talking about characters leaning towards one of the combat roles but actual dedicated roles, which you claim exist in the game.
Originally posted by majin690
Actually the developers did say that u can have dedicated roles, BUT no class has a dedicated role , each class can fill any role - that's the difference , this was said on the gamebreaker guildcast special by the devs
You misunderstood them. Go watch it again. They clearly say "There are no dedicated roles" and all the beta footage backs it up.
I'll give you the same challenge I gave Xzen. If either you finds concrete proof of a dedicated role I'll eat my words.
And just to clarify: Find one example of any class doing just healing/budding, just damage soaking, or just damage (this one is technically possible but you'd have to go out of your way to do it and you'll be severly gimping your character by placing restrictions on yourself in game that not only rewards but EXPECTS combat flexibility) .
Just to make sure you understand what I'm saying. When forming a group to run a dungeon I can be a Necro but I'm bringing the equipment to be a Healer, or a Tank, etc. Not that any profesion is locked into any one role.
It seems most healing spells have a long cooldown and a short Hot-duration... so its probably impossible to be a dedicated healer. However, 2 people shifting between roles like control and support could maybe work out?
Like a staff elementalist shifting between water (support) and earth attunement (control). Of course they should do damage as well, and since theres no common "mana bar" to manage, the damage dealing wont drain his ability to support/control.
Funny thing: this was probably a troll thread... but it turned out to be really informative.
Na if you watch the BFF report by Mike B (from gamebreaker) when he is going through the dungeon , he explains clearly the holy trinity does not exist .. BUT every class can fill any role if they wish to. He said during his run they had one guy healing as a dedicated healer and another person offhealing so .. yes the holy trinity does not exist, but any class can fill ny of those 3 roles. Link - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SMYW3tvYeE&list=UUY-T9lDJ2Mcob5YslazNjBw&index=16&feature=plpp_video - Watch from 13.43
You have misunderstood him. What he says is that some class are better at a specific role than others, such as the Guardian having more defensive abilities than, say, a Thief.
He does NOT say there are dedicated roles in the sense of the trinity, he says that characters can specialize somewhat into the different roles. His use of "dedicated" is different from what is usually meant by "dedicated" when you talk about the trinity.
Yes, one person in the group might be the "dedicated" support as in they will be bringing the most support skills but that doesn't mean they will be doing nothing but support, which is the meaning of dedicated role when you are discussing the trinity.
A dedicated class does nothing but one role. Even the "dedicated" characters in GW2 will be fulfilling multiple roles in combat, they'll just be doing more of one than the rest.
So to summarize, playing a support-focused character does NOT make you a dedicated support class in the MMO context.
Na if you watch the BFF report by Mike B (from gamebreaker) when he is going through the dungeon , he explains clearly the holy trinity does not exist .. BUT every class can fill any role if they wish to. He said during his run they had one guy healing as a dedicated healer and another person offhealing so .. yes the holy trinity does not exist, but any class can fill ny of those 3 roles. Link - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SMYW3tvYeE&list=UUY-T9lDJ2Mcob5YslazNjBw&index=16&feature=plpp_video - Watch from 13.43
You have misunderstood him. What he says is that some class are better at a specific role than others, such as the Guardian having more defensive abilities than, say, a Thief.
He does NOT say there are dedicated roles in the sense of the trinity, he says that characters can specialize somewhat into the different roles. His use of "dedicated" is different from what is usually meant by "dedicated" when you talk about the trinity.
Yes, one person in the group might be the "dedicated" support as in they will be bringing the most support skills but that doesn't mean they will be doing nothing but support, which is the meaning of dedicated role when you are discussing the trinity.
A dedicated class does nothing but one role. Even the "dedicated" characters in GW2 will be fulfilling multiple roles in combat, they'll just be doing more of one than the rest.
So to summarize, playing a support-focused character does NOT make you a dedicated support class in the MMO context.
Yeah I may have used to word "dedicated" in the wrong way but that is what I meant , so if someone chooses to be only support aka heal then they can but at the same time everyone can switch between these roles on the fly and that is what he is saying- there is choice and no class is pidgeon holed instead a player chooses what he wants to do
Yeah I may have used to word "dedicated" in the wrong way but that is what I meant , so if someone chooses to be only support aka heal then they can but at the same time everyone can switch between these roles on the fly and that is what he is saying- there is choice and no class is pidgeon holed instead a player chooses what he wants to do
That's right. All classes can perform all roles to an extent but no class can perform any one role exclusively.
My argument still stands strong against Xzen's claim that there is dedicated roles in GW2 in the MMO (although it looks like he was misusing term as well).
Yeah I may have used to word "dedicated" in the wrong way but that is what I meant , so if someone chooses to be only support aka heal then they can but at the same time everyone can switch between these roles on the fly and that is what he is saying- there is choice and no class is pidgeon holed instead a player chooses what he wants to do
That's right. All classes can perform all roles to an extent but no class can perform any one role exclusively.
My argument still stands strong against Xzen's claim that there is dedicated roles in GW2 in the MMO (although it looks like he was misusing term as well).
Yeah. You just didn't understand what I was saying. Think you're arguing with me even though we agree. It happens from time to time.
You can't limit yourself to single role without severely reducing your effectiveness. You can be more of a supporter than the guy next to you, but you can't be doing only support stuff, nor can you eliminate the need for other players to heal themselves. Same goes for tanking (control).
Yeah. You just didn't understand what I was saying. Think you're arguing with me even though we agree. It happens from time to time.
You'd be surprised how many people (at least until recently) seriously believe that GW2 has dedicated roles in the "and I heal, and I heal, and I heal" sense. After following the game for almost 3 years it has gotten to be a pet peeve of mine.
Anyway, back on topic: If you like keeping bars filled and doing nothing but healing then yes, avoid the game. If you like supporting your teamates through a multitude of ways while not being restricted to one role only then this is the game for you.
Yeah. You just didn't understand what I was saying. Think you're arguing with me even though we agree. It happens from time to time.
You'd be surprised how many people (at least until recently) seriously believe that GW2 has dedicated roles in the "and I heal, and I heal, and I heal" sense. After following the game for almost 3 years it has gotten to be a pet peeve of mine.
Anyway, back on topic: If you like keeping bars filled and doing nothing but healing then yes, avoid the game. If you like supporting your teamates through a multitude of ways while not being restricted to one role only then this is the game for you.
My only point is that if you like to heal the group this game has it. It's just going to take some learning because it's not cut and pasted from the typical mmo. You better learn how to use dodge and support and use other skills that will be available to you at the same time.
Yeah. You just didn't understand what I was saying. Think you're arguing with me even though we agree. It happens from time to time.
You'd be surprised how many people (at least until recently) seriously believe that GW2 has dedicated roles in the "and I heal, and I heal, and I heal" sense. After following the game for almost 3 years it has gotten to be a pet peeve of mine.
Anyway, back on topic: If you like keeping bars filled and doing nothing but healing then yes, avoid the game. If you like supporting your teamates through a multitude of ways while not being restricted to one role only then this is the game for you.
My only point is that if you like to heal the group this game has it. It's just going to take some learning because it's not cut and pasted from the typical mmo. You better learn how to use dodge and support and use other skills that will be available to you at the same time.
For the love of god You've used the term "learn" - what were You thinking...we are not allowed to read not to mention think and learn god forbid imagine...
Ive been reading and it seems that healing is completely eliminated from the equation (besides self heals and intangible aoe heals that everyone gets. It kinda sounds like everyone is a dpser who has the ability to dodge and heal.
So instead of the holy trinity, everyone is just the exact same thing.
That is cool...i guess?
To get back to the point, I love healing in other MMOs. Avoid this game correct?
No really, I was a resto druid on WoW, but the problem with others MMO's is that if you are the healer or dps or tank thats the only thing you can do because of your gear bonuses, in gw2 you can heal allies but you are not a dedicated healer, is just diferent...
Comments
I actually had the same concern too, because I love healing and always roll a healer in MMO's. This thread eased those concerns a bit, so thanks!
I thought mesmer looked kinda fun, but people are saying that guardian & sorc is the way to go if you're leaning towards the support role. So will I be gimped in the support front if I choose mesmer?
Not quite actually.
The holy trinity is defined by dedicated roles:
1. Dedicated damage soaker (the Tank)
2. Dedicated damage dealers (the DPS)
3. Dedicated healer (the umm... Healer)
While GW2 has damage soaking, damage dealing and healing no class has the tools necessary to perform one role and role only. That is, there is no dedicated roles in GW2; everyone does everything all the time.
For example, a Water-specialized Elementalist might have more healing skills than the average character but they will never have enough healing skills to do nothing but heal nor are the heals strong enough that they would be able to keep people alive by themselves.
Similarly, a Shield-specialized Guardian might have more defensive abilities than the average character but they will never be able to take a beating indefinitely, even with another player healing them. They simply do not have enough defensive abilities to accomplish this.
In addition, many skills are multifunctional in their roles. An AoE spell might provide Regeneration to allies while at the same time Burning enemies(Support and Damage), or a Wall spell might provide Swiftness to allies but Cripples enemies (Support and Control).
Guild Wars 2 has a trifecta of general combat activites, Damage, Control and Support, but it does not have a trinity.
No you won't, you'll just be providing support in a different manner. While a Guardian might protect his allies by providing them with armor buffs and heals, a Mesmer can protect his allies by casting an invisibility spell on them or by creating an illusion that both attacks enemies and provides a protective bubble for allies to stand in.
Wrong! When you go into a dungeon you work out who will be deddicated to what roles.
My theme song.
Please do some research before spouting off nonsense.
Go read the reports form the Press Dungeon Event, watch Dungeon videos from this past weekend's beta or listen to gamebreaker.tv's interview with the system designers and you'll understand that classes simply cannot fulfill dedicated roles.
Seriously, it's embarrasing.
I'm talking about what was seen and experienced in the press beta. If you don't organise and find out what people will be equipping themselves for aoe heals and tanking and control etc you will not do so well.
My theme song.
Actually the developers did say that u can have dedicated roles, BUT no class has a dedicated role , each class can fill any role - that's the difference , this was said on the gamebreaker guildcast special by the devs
You are lying and I challenge you to give me one (1!) example of a dedicated anything.
Note that I am not talking about characters leaning towards one of the combat roles but actual dedicated roles, which you claim exist in the game.
You misunderstood them. Go watch it again. They clearly say "There are no dedicated roles" and all the beta footage backs it up.
I'll give you the same challenge I gave Xzen. If either you finds concrete proof of a dedicated role I'll eat my words.
And just to clarify: Find one example of any class doing just healing/budding, just damage soaking, or just damage (this one is technically possible but you'd have to go out of your way to do it and you'll be severly gimping your character by placing restrictions on yourself in game that not only rewards but EXPECTS combat flexibility) .
Thanks mate, sounds really cool. I'm kind of keeping myself in an information blackout on this game because I don't want to get too hyped and have the wait to become so much worse
Exactly!
My theme song.
Na if you watch the BFF report by Mike B (from gamebreaker) when he is going through the dungeon , he explains clearly the holy trinity does not exist .. BUT every class can fill any role if they wish to. He said during his run they had one guy healing as a dedicated healer and another person offhealing so .. yes the holy trinity does not exist, but any class can fill ny of those 3 roles. Link - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SMYW3tvYeE&list=UUY-T9lDJ2Mcob5YslazNjBw&index=16&feature=plpp_video - Watch from 13.43
Then back it up with an example, I dare you.
ive given proof above your post
Just to make sure you understand what I'm saying. When forming a group to run a dungeon I can be a Necro but I'm bringing the equipment to be a Healer, or a Tank, etc. Not that any profesion is locked into any one role.
My theme song.
It seems most healing spells have a long cooldown and a short Hot-duration... so its probably impossible to be a dedicated healer. However, 2 people shifting between roles like control and support could maybe work out?
Like a staff elementalist shifting between water (support) and earth attunement (control). Of course they should do damage as well, and since theres no common "mana bar" to manage, the damage dealing wont drain his ability to support/control.
Funny thing: this was probably a troll thread... but it turned out to be really informative.
With only 10 skills available at a time i think you will be pushing that "3" key alot!
You have misunderstood him. What he says is that some class are better at a specific role than others, such as the Guardian having more defensive abilities than, say, a Thief.
He does NOT say there are dedicated roles in the sense of the trinity, he says that characters can specialize somewhat into the different roles. His use of "dedicated" is different from what is usually meant by "dedicated" when you talk about the trinity.
Yes, one person in the group might be the "dedicated" support as in they will be bringing the most support skills but that doesn't mean they will be doing nothing but support, which is the meaning of dedicated role when you are discussing the trinity.
A dedicated class does nothing but one role. Even the "dedicated" characters in GW2 will be fulfilling multiple roles in combat, they'll just be doing more of one than the rest.
So to summarize, playing a support-focused character does NOT make you a dedicated support class in the MMO context.
Yeah I may have used to word "dedicated" in the wrong way but that is what I meant , so if someone chooses to be only support aka heal then they can but at the same time everyone can switch between these roles on the fly and that is what he is saying- there is choice and no class is pidgeon holed instead a player chooses what he wants to do
That's right. All classes can perform all roles to an extent but no class can perform any one role exclusively.
My argument still stands strong against Xzen's claim that there is dedicated roles in GW2 in the MMO (although it looks like he was misusing term as well).
So long as there are classes there are dedicated roles, that is not something that will ever be changed until the Class system is removed.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Yeah. You just didn't understand what I was saying. Think you're arguing with me even though we agree. It happens from time to time.
My theme song.
You can't limit yourself to single role without severely reducing your effectiveness. You can be more of a supporter than the guy next to you, but you can't be doing only support stuff, nor can you eliminate the need for other players to heal themselves. Same goes for tanking (control).
You'd be surprised how many people (at least until recently) seriously believe that GW2 has dedicated roles in the "and I heal, and I heal, and I heal" sense. After following the game for almost 3 years it has gotten to be a pet peeve of mine.
Anyway, back on topic: If you like keeping bars filled and doing nothing but healing then yes, avoid the game. If you like supporting your teamates through a multitude of ways while not being restricted to one role only then this is the game for you.
My only point is that if you like to heal the group this game has it. It's just going to take some learning because it's not cut and pasted from the typical mmo. You better learn how to use dodge and support and use other skills that will be available to you at the same time.
My theme song.
For the love of god You've used the term "learn" - what were You thinking...we are not allowed to read not to mention think and learn god forbid imagine...
No really, I was a resto druid on WoW, but the problem with others MMO's is that if you are the healer or dps or tank thats the only thing you can do because of your gear bonuses, in gw2 you can heal allies but you are not a dedicated healer, is just diferent...