As an example...this didn't actually happen. But still same thing, especially since Mass Effect is a story based game.
I just bought a novel for 20 dollars. I find out the novel is missing a chapter and I had to buy it seperately.
How would you feel?
Bad anology.
If the dlc they are including is an actual chapter in their story line it would be apt but it also would render the game nonsensical if they cut a chunk out of the story. As far as sub plots, well, this is done with movies all the time no?
You buy a movie and find out that 20 minutes of footage, maybe even affecting the story in a different way, was cut out. Of course they call it "the director's cut" and it's supposed to differentiate the studio/release version and what the director intended. They almost become two separate products.
If this DLC is anything but a main part of the story then it really doesn't matter that they it's separate. I would even go so far as to say, given the above movie example, that sometimes the footage, extra content should be cut out because it wrecked the pacing or gave something away that would have wrecked the tentsion or overall building of the story.
In mass effect 3's case, if it's just some extra storyline that has nothing to do with the game then it can be ignored and won't affect the main game at all. It would truly be an "extra" part and not important to the story.
Its not a bad analogy, its a prothean, an actual prothean with attendant storyline, how can that not be important given the history of ME, as Totalbiscuit says, this is a huge thing, and any fan of the game will feel cheated that it wasnt there already, and that it would require yet another payment, to obtain it, and its not additional content created after the game was designed, but during game design, which is about as contentious as it gets. The fact that they are already monetising so many things about ME3 is bad enough, without this further 'kick in the teeth' to loyal fans who have so far stood by Bioware/EA .. so yes, it matters, it matters a lot.
So basically this whole argument is going to boil down to if you think the Prothean is actually important to the storyline or not. I personally feel that a living Prothean really isn't going to amount to much cause quite frankly the ones that weren't killed went into hiding and probably know nothing about the greater whole of the reaper invasion, considering their leaders were wiped out and all information on their network stopped functioning from the get go they probably know as much as the current races do or can see for themselves.
And then what can they really say that is going to help the current situation? Their race was completely wiped out, they lost, what can they really say that is going to be helpful to the conflict besides telling us about the Prothean civilization and how nice it looked before the Reapers invaded?
For all we know this Prothean could of been a mercenary that happened to live on a distant, untouched world that went into stasis without really knowing anything about the reapers and then is "woken up" by shepard.
According to TotalBiscuit, he without a doubt knows that it was actually in the main game and then intentionally cut out in order to sell on day one. How does he know for sure that is what happened? I would actually like to see how exactly he came to this conclusion. I've seen people saying it was cut from the original game files but where are these game files? How does someone determine what game files are part of the "main" game and which ones are DLC? Were the game files categorized in such as way as to determine clearly what they were intended for?
I am not trying to defend what EA did, If they in fact did this then it is pretty shady. What I am trying to find out is what information does TB have that clearly with a doubt makes him think it was part of the main story and not from the get go made to be DLC.
ME3 may be the last EA product I purchase... if not TSW, but thankfully they have very little to do with TSW.
They have very little to do with TSW? EA doesn't make games they just publish it andr eap the profits. Just like how they didn't make ME3. They have as much as to do with TSW as they did with ME3.
Except that EA directly owns BioWare, while Funcom is still an independent studio.
Funcom is a developer, marketing is EA's department. And we are talking about nickle and diming here. What makes you so sure EA won't nickle dime with TSW? ME3 and TSW will share same fate like any other EA released game.
Bioware's just the latest developer to be ground up and devoured by EA. It's sad that these great companies let it happen. Sure, those at the top probably have more money for it, and more money's nice and all, but you'd think they'd agree that some things are more important.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I am amazed how anyone can even try to defend Bioware on this, because you do get it in the DE but not the standard so please pay us $20 more and you can have it. Are you kidding me, they are trying ti milk this series for every bloody penny, but some actually have the balls to defend them? Are you really so blind to the fact that Bioware was spit out shit for games the last couple years, but that is ok keep shitting on your customer base because certain people will keep paying!
Take and stand and BOYCOTT this game.
So if you get it in the DE but not the standard how can you actually use the arguement it was not in the game at gold, did they make different runs for the DE???? I do not think so................
If you don't aprove email them, twitter your gaming mates to as well. A backlash against this will likely have the decision reversed. I don't do social media myself but will email telling them why I'll wait for the GOTY version.
It's your own fault really as has been stated in numerous threads. The companies don't care how much you rant and rave on forums, as long as you still buy their products they're happy, it's that simple.
-I don't like publisher X:s business practice, so I won't support them.
Three weeks after release:
-Ah, I'll buy it anyway, I don't have the self discipline to keep my promise to myself.
Nothing will ever change as long as people do this, the only language companies understand is sale/no sale.
I dislike being nickel and dimed, but hey, to me it's worth the price of admission. I have all the DLC for ME1 and ME2 and I've spent over 100 hours on each. That and I haven't bought a full price game since the holiday season.
Now Playing: Mission Against Terror, Battlefield 3, Skyrim, Dark Souls, League of Legends, Minecraft, and the piano. =3
Originally posted by Gorilla If you don't aprove email them, twitter your gaming mates to as well. A backlash against this will likely have the decision reversed. I don't do social media myself but will email telling them why I'll wait for the GOTY version.
Many times thats a good idea you get a good version with all the DLC and expansions in a GotY version.
Only buy your realy favorite game if deal is satisfied enough other wise wait for bargain or GotY version.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
Yup, looks like EA has definitely taken over Bioware...a huge shame. Purposely making content that should be in the full game, but instead will be 10 dollars at release. Not to mention the many many other DLCs that will be available from other places and sources.
It's like what i told TB, why is this such a surprise to everyone? Has anyone checked out their most recently released mmo? Look what happened with that. They promised a complete mmo experience and didn't deliver, all because the shareholders were getting antsy and wanted it out now. This is no different because essentially what they did with their mmo release is have people who were only interested in the IP pay for a beta test, it really was that bad. I know I know I will see posts next that state "well i never experienced those bugs so they didn't exist" or "they promised they'll release updates with fixes so i'm good" and i have to say that those arguments are moot at this point. Just look at what EA has in store (pun definitely intended) for this game. Instead of caring about how they are perceived they have reached the enormous size that it doesn't matter how they will be seen by the public they are only interested in the dollar and it's sad. Well what's more sad is there are still people out there that will pay them even now just to have their products and they won't learn a thing from making these mistakes because people are crazy enough to throw away their money like this.
If you don't aprove email them, twitter your gaming mates to as well. A backlash against this will likely have the decision reversed. I don't do social media myself but will email telling them why I'll wait for the GOTY version.
They had a huge backlash with SWTOR what makes you think that they'll care at this point. And with SWTOR they still had crazy people paying to play their lauchday beta (what i call their launch) just to experience a game with the SW IP, it's no different now, they don't care about the public or their fans or the playerbase or how they will be perceived it's all just dollar signs at this point. Sorry to be so negative but that's how i see this company after both of these titles and their problems.
Well one way of looking at it is that this DLC is exclusive CE edition content. Would people be happier if this content was exclusive to CE and there was no way to purchase it if you went with the regular edition?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Well one way of looking at it is that this DLC is exclusive CE edition content. Would people be happier if this content was exclusive to CE and there was no way to purchase it if you went with the regular edition?
I would be happier if any significant ingame content produced before release date, came with the standard version. You know, like it has almost always been with good games since the inception of gaming? If they felt like they wanted to charge more than standard price for their games, then they should have the balls to do so directly instead of going through the shady scheme of using DLC at release to do so.
Release-date-CE could include alternative art, physical out-of-game extra items, behind the scenes commentary, nicer box, head-start, etc. However, it shouldn't contain significant ingame content which was produced before the release date.
There seems to be a great deal of confusion on a few issues here. First and foremost, I'd like to make clear that there is absolutely nothing unethical about charging a consumer for a product that will be delivered functioning as advertised. Mass Effect 3 will funtion as advertised, DLC or not. You'll be able to save the galaxy. You'll be able to pork Ashley. They're not telling you that you'll get this prothean team member and then charging you after the fact; that's unethical. This is not.
Next, I'd like to address the notion that a consumer is "entitled" to any content created before the release of the game. This idea is a complete fabrication- in no way is the consumer entitled to ANYTHING other than the product they have paid for, delivered as advertised. If you don't want to buy it, don't buy it. I'm not going to. But before you go crucifying EA for making a living, just understand that long after Mass Effect 3 has been released, they'll still be paying their payrolls and electricity bills and heating costs. To think they're sitting there hoarding your cash is absurd. That's the money that they put into future projects to keep you entertained 5 years from now, and if you don't want to give it to them then just don't give it to them. But don't call them amoral or unethical for "milking the consumer". That's what capitalism is.
There seems to be a great deal of confusion on a few issues here. First and foremost, I'd like to make clear that there is absolutely nothing unethical about charging a consumer for a product that will be delivered functioning as advertised. Mass Effect 3 will funtion as advertised, DLC or not. You'll be able to save the galaxy. You'll be able to pork Ashley. They're not telling you that you'll get this prothean team member and then charging you after the fact; that's unethical. This is not.
Next, I'd like to address the notion that a consumer is "entitled" to any content created before the release of the game. This idea is a complete fabrication- in no way is the consumer entitled to ANYTHING other than the product they have paid for, delivered as advertised. If you don't want to buy it, don't buy it. I'm not going to. But before you go crucifying EA for making a living, just understand that long after Mass Effect 3 has been released, they'll still be paying their payrolls and electricity bills and heating costs. To think they're sitting there hoarding your cash is absurd. That's the money that they put into future projects to keep you entertained 5 years from now, and if you don't want to give it to them then just don't give it to them. But don't call them amoral or unethical for "milking the consumer". That's what capitalism is.
There is something unethical about intentionally supporting methods of nickel and diming costumers which were not standard.
Let's get something straight: people are in the console and pc gaming business for mainly two reasons: for the money and for creation of outstanding games. It is evident where EA's priorities are.
Bethesda had at least the courtersy to show their costumers some respect by not using their costumers as labrats in a giant experiment for finding the best way to optimize their profits at release. They have enough common sense to know that they would increase their earnings for Skyrim if they had gone a EA charging dlc path from release, but they chose not to. I hope they maintain a similar standpoint against their own greed in the future as well.
I would not be surprised to see Bioware brand removed in few years time, but the key thing is that some people cashed in very nicely with Bioware. Those with creativity leave the sinking ship and start new companies or join indie studios, the cycle continues.
While I still think Bioware games are ok, I do not think they have made the best RPGs since Bethesda and CD Projekt.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
I would not be surprised to see Bioware brand removed in few years time, but the key thing is that some people cashed in very nicely with Bioware. Those with creativity leave the sinking ship and start new companies or join indie studios, the cycle continues.
While I still think Bioware games are ok, I do not think they have made the best RPGs since Bethesda and CD Projekt.
The BioWare name itself will not go away. While the people that made things happen in the "Good 'ol Days" of BioWare maybe gone, the name will remain for EA to slap onto whatever project. The name is a brand name in gaming like Nike is for shoes. For instance, I think Nike shoes are cr*p for actual athletics, but the company really goes out of its way for looks and image. And brand names go for name recognition and higher prices because they slap a special name onto a product.
Anyways, the BioWare name will be around for years to come.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
It's always a blast trying to see people defend day 1 DLC.
Day 1 DLC is a rip off, PERIOD, you can't remove things from the game only to sell them for extra $$$, im already buying the F game, seriously, are you people real? do you guys even try to think for yourselves for ONE time in your life?
You are hurting us all, please stop lowering your standards, it's pathetic.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
It's always a blast trying to see people defend day 1 DLC.
Day 1 DLC is a rip off, PERIOD, you can't remove things from the game only to sell them for extra $$$, im already buying the F game, seriously, are you people real? do you guys even try to think for yourselves for ONE time in your life?
You are hurting us all, please stop lowering your standards, it's pathetic.
It's always funny to see people react as if gaming has a higher purpose in live then to actually see that gaming is just a form of entertainment where every person has a choice and is free to either buy or play them.
ME3 may be the last EA product I purchase... if not TSW, but thankfully they have very little to do with TSW.
--Yet.
Publishers love the smell of green. If they are in debt, they'll throw their noses in their grass just to get their fix for green. DLC has really pushed it on all game-fronts. At least it's usable content instead of 'cosmetic items'. Oh wait.. ME has armor packs..
But if no one have pointed it out yet, it was not taken out. It was simply not ready in time. Ofc they could have given it for free but then again they could have keept it exclusive to the CE too.
Comments
So basically this whole argument is going to boil down to if you think the Prothean is actually important to the storyline or not. I personally feel that a living Prothean really isn't going to amount to much cause quite frankly the ones that weren't killed went into hiding and probably know nothing about the greater whole of the reaper invasion, considering their leaders were wiped out and all information on their network stopped functioning from the get go they probably know as much as the current races do or can see for themselves.
And then what can they really say that is going to help the current situation? Their race was completely wiped out, they lost, what can they really say that is going to be helpful to the conflict besides telling us about the Prothean civilization and how nice it looked before the Reapers invaded?
For all we know this Prothean could of been a mercenary that happened to live on a distant, untouched world that went into stasis without really knowing anything about the reapers and then is "woken up" by shepard.
According to TotalBiscuit, he without a doubt knows that it was actually in the main game and then intentionally cut out in order to sell on day one. How does he know for sure that is what happened? I would actually like to see how exactly he came to this conclusion. I've seen people saying it was cut from the original game files but where are these game files? How does someone determine what game files are part of the "main" game and which ones are DLC? Were the game files categorized in such as way as to determine clearly what they were intended for?
I am not trying to defend what EA did, If they in fact did this then it is pretty shady. What I am trying to find out is what information does TB have that clearly with a doubt makes him think it was part of the main story and not from the get go made to be DLC.
HEAVEN OR HELL
Duel 1
Lets ROCK!
Funcom is a developer, marketing is EA's department. And we are talking about nickle and diming here. What makes you so sure EA won't nickle dime with TSW? ME3 and TSW will share same fate like any other EA released game.
Bite Me
Day 1 DLC? No thanks guess I wont be buying ME3 now.
Bioware's just the latest developer to be ground up and devoured by EA. It's sad that these great companies let it happen. Sure, those at the top probably have more money for it, and more money's nice and all, but you'd think they'd agree that some things are more important.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I am amazed how anyone can even try to defend Bioware on this, because you do get it in the DE but not the standard so please pay us $20 more and you can have it. Are you kidding me, they are trying ti milk this series for every bloody penny, but some actually have the balls to defend them? Are you really so blind to the fact that Bioware was spit out shit for games the last couple years, but that is ok keep shitting on your customer base because certain people will keep paying!
Take and stand and BOYCOTT this game.
So if you get it in the DE but not the standard how can you actually use the arguement it was not in the game at gold, did they make different runs for the DE???? I do not think so................
The files for the DLC character are in the demo, enough said. Talk about milking.
If you don't aprove email them, twitter your gaming mates to as well. A backlash against this will likely have the decision reversed. I don't do social media myself but will email telling them why I'll wait for the GOTY version.
It's your own fault really as has been stated in numerous threads. The companies don't care how much you rant and rave on forums, as long as you still buy their products they're happy, it's that simple.
-I don't like publisher X:s business practice, so I won't support them.
Three weeks after release:
-Ah, I'll buy it anyway, I don't have the self discipline to keep my promise to myself.
Nothing will ever change as long as people do this, the only language companies understand is sale/no sale.
I dislike being nickel and dimed, but hey, to me it's worth the price of admission. I have all the DLC for ME1 and ME2 and I've spent over 100 hours on each. That and I haven't bought a full price game since the holiday season.
Now Playing: Mission Against Terror, Battlefield 3, Skyrim, Dark Souls, League of Legends, Minecraft, and the piano. =3
Visit my fail Youtube channel(don't leave me nasty messages!): http://www.youtube.com/user/Mirii471
Only buy your realy favorite game if deal is satisfied enough other wise wait for bargain or GotY version.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
It's like what i told TB, why is this such a surprise to everyone? Has anyone checked out their most recently released mmo? Look what happened with that. They promised a complete mmo experience and didn't deliver, all because the shareholders were getting antsy and wanted it out now. This is no different because essentially what they did with their mmo release is have people who were only interested in the IP pay for a beta test, it really was that bad. I know I know I will see posts next that state "well i never experienced those bugs so they didn't exist" or "they promised they'll release updates with fixes so i'm good" and i have to say that those arguments are moot at this point. Just look at what EA has in store (pun definitely intended) for this game. Instead of caring about how they are perceived they have reached the enormous size that it doesn't matter how they will be seen by the public they are only interested in the dollar and it's sad. Well what's more sad is there are still people out there that will pay them even now just to have their products and they won't learn a thing from making these mistakes because people are crazy enough to throw away their money like this.
They had a huge backlash with SWTOR what makes you think that they'll care at this point. And with SWTOR they still had crazy people paying to play their lauchday beta (what i call their launch) just to experience a game with the SW IP, it's no different now, they don't care about the public or their fans or the playerbase or how they will be perceived it's all just dollar signs at this point. Sorry to be so negative but that's how i see this company after both of these titles and their problems.
Well one way of looking at it is that this DLC is exclusive CE edition content. Would people be happier if this content was exclusive to CE and there was no way to purchase it if you went with the regular edition?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I would be happier if any significant ingame content produced before release date, came with the standard version. You know, like it has almost always been with good games since the inception of gaming? If they felt like they wanted to charge more than standard price for their games, then they should have the balls to do so directly instead of going through the shady scheme of using DLC at release to do so.
Release-date-CE could include alternative art, physical out-of-game extra items, behind the scenes commentary, nicer box, head-start, etc. However, it shouldn't contain significant ingame content which was produced before the release date.
I'd like to throw my two cents in on this.
There seems to be a great deal of confusion on a few issues here. First and foremost, I'd like to make clear that there is absolutely nothing unethical about charging a consumer for a product that will be delivered functioning as advertised. Mass Effect 3 will funtion as advertised, DLC or not. You'll be able to save the galaxy. You'll be able to pork Ashley. They're not telling you that you'll get this prothean team member and then charging you after the fact; that's unethical. This is not.
Next, I'd like to address the notion that a consumer is "entitled" to any content created before the release of the game. This idea is a complete fabrication- in no way is the consumer entitled to ANYTHING other than the product they have paid for, delivered as advertised. If you don't want to buy it, don't buy it. I'm not going to. But before you go crucifying EA for making a living, just understand that long after Mass Effect 3 has been released, they'll still be paying their payrolls and electricity bills and heating costs. To think they're sitting there hoarding your cash is absurd. That's the money that they put into future projects to keep you entertained 5 years from now, and if you don't want to give it to them then just don't give it to them. But don't call them amoral or unethical for "milking the consumer". That's what capitalism is.
Who buys ea games anyways.
There is something unethical about intentionally supporting methods of nickel and diming costumers which were not standard.
Let's get something straight: people are in the console and pc gaming business for mainly two reasons: for the money and for creation of outstanding games. It is evident where EA's priorities are.
Bethesda had at least the courtersy to show their costumers some respect by not using their costumers as labrats in a giant experiment for finding the best way to optimize their profits at release. They have enough common sense to know that they would increase their earnings for Skyrim if they had gone a EA charging dlc path from release, but they chose not to. I hope they maintain a similar standpoint against their own greed in the future as well.
I would not be surprised to see Bioware brand removed in few years time, but the key thing is that some people cashed in very nicely with Bioware. Those with creativity leave the sinking ship and start new companies or join indie studios, the cycle continues.
While I still think Bioware games are ok, I do not think they have made the best RPGs since Bethesda and CD Projekt.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
The BioWare name itself will not go away. While the people that made things happen in the "Good 'ol Days" of BioWare maybe gone, the name will remain for EA to slap onto whatever project. The name is a brand name in gaming like Nike is for shoes. For instance, I think Nike shoes are cr*p for actual athletics, but the company really goes out of its way for looks and image. And brand names go for name recognition and higher prices because they slap a special name onto a product.
Anyways, the BioWare name will be around for years to come.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Day 1 DLC is a rip off, PERIOD, you can't remove things from the game only to sell them for extra $$$, im already buying the F game, seriously, are you people real? do you guys even try to think for yourselves for ONE time in your life?
You are hurting us all, please stop lowering your standards, it's pathetic."Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
EA displaying poor corporate ethics, nothing new.
Thought this was done with DA2?
It's always funny to see people react as if gaming has a higher purpose in live then to actually see that gaming is just a form of entertainment where every person has a choice and is free to either buy or play them.
--Yet.
Publishers love the smell of green. If they are in debt, they'll throw their noses in their grass just to get their fix for green. DLC has really pushed it on all game-fronts. At least it's usable content instead of 'cosmetic items'. Oh wait.. ME has armor packs..
Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2
Preorderd the CE, could not care less.
But if no one have pointed it out yet, it was not taken out. It was simply not ready in time. Ofc they could have given it for free but then again they could have keept it exclusive to the CE too.
At least now you can buy it.
This have been a good conversation