No MMO that has PvP as the central focus is a huge commercial success, sorry. And anyone who thinks ArenaNet can do what Blizzard, or other far more experienced, larger, and wealthier studios couldn't do is kind of fooling themselves.
Oh my! Arenanet's founders WERE Blizzard before Blizzard was even Blizzard... did you know Pat Wyatt worked on The Lost Vikings (one of my favorite SNES titles) when Blizzard was still Silicon & Synapse? I'm guessing not, judging by the way you stuffed your foot in your mouth right there.
I believe that GW2 is lacking the three features that keep players coming back for years, namely:
1) Everyone should be on the same server, so players have the chance to become real famous legends amongst other players.
2) Everyone should be able to build structures in-game. This makes the place feel like a home, and gives you something tangible to build, defend, and attack.
3) PvP should be of central importance - As clever human beings, we eventually learn all about a game's AI, but there is nothing quite like a human opponent - we can be brilliant, stupid, and unpredictable.
I believe that the (marketing) hype is too strong. GW2 will turn out to be another SWTOR - initially impressive, but lacking once the theme-park rides have been done.
If you don't agree with me, I would love to hear your arguments and be convinced otherwise.
What games have those three things that "keep(s) players coming back for years" besides EVE and (unrleased) Archeage? I like the post, I'm just wondering
I can easily list games that have none of those things that also keep players coming back for years: WoW, Guild Wars 1, Everquest 2, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Maplestory . . . there are more, but I'll stop.
I believe that GW2 is lacking the three features that keep players coming back for years, namely:
1) Everyone should be on the same server, so players have the chance to become real famous legends amongst other players.
2) Everyone should be able to build structures in-game. This makes the place feel like a home, and gives you something tangible to build, defend, and attack.
3) PvP should be of central importance - As clever human beings, we eventually learn all about a game's AI, but there is nothing quite like a human opponent - we can be brilliant, stupid, and unpredictable.
I believe that the (marketing) hype is too strong. GW2 will turn out to be another SWTOR - initially impressive, but lacking once the theme-park rides have been done.
If you don't agree with me, I would love to hear your arguments and be convinced otherwise.
Let's see... in GW2, "1" and "3" are contradictory, since the major WvW PvP system is three servers battling against each other. Now, the only game I personally know of with everyone on the same server is Eve Online, and that's so heavily zoned (every system is it's own instance basically) that implementing something like that in GW2 would suck.
#2... horribly false. Imagine the landscape if a million players on a single server decided to build their own house... yuck.
#2... horribly false. Imagine the landscape if a million players on a single server decided to build their own house... yuck.
LOL, you're right, that is a horrible image, and we don't even have to talk about numbers as high as a million, imagine running into a town of 100K houses, and trying to navigate them all (or even burn them all down).
I do like games that have pre-built keeps or castles which players can capture and control, such as Lineage 2 or DAOC.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
OP, i'd suggest doing a bit of research on WvW in GW2...from what we know, it will have an integral part to play in the world as a whole. Also, in the Guild Features article written on this site, it alluded to guilds having the ability to construct Guild Halls.
I disagree with OP because I don't find SWTOR along with Rift,WoW,GW1,Aion,,AoC,FF14 Initially impressive.
I more find them initially bland,cartoonish,boring,to purple,more of the same,terrible. In no particular order...
Ah and you don't find gw2 cartoonish?? You are serious?? You know what is amazing graphic? Battlefield 3 and some of the fps games. You will se how bad is graphic from gw2 when you put that on your big monitor
So you all want a theme-park that lasts about a year?
Personally, if I was going to invest that much time into a game, I would want it to be good forever.
Are you familiar with the first guild wars? If not, let me tell you they have continued to roll out content for that game at least once a year if not more. ArenaNet said they plan to do the same with GW2. So as long as content keeps rolling out for both PvE and PvP, then the entertainment should be nearly endless at the cost of nothing (no sub fee) but only paying for the original game and its expansions.
[quote]Originally posted by Mors.Magne [b]I believe that GW2 is lacking the three features that keep players coming back for years, namely:
1) Everyone should be on the same server, so players have the chance to become real famous legends amongst other players. Why? GW2 has been talking about actually making it so that one can be proud of their server, and have a type of large standing community you don't have in other games. Sure you could have one massive server, but then you wouldn't have co-op you would when your entire server is trying their best to win against two others. This type of server coordination has been seen in ages, which is perhaps why you don't see this as a strength when it is. Plus Anet has already said that if you so wished to switch server's it isn't going to be some major hassle or cost real money.seems to me that you are speaking about a feature that may already have some basis in the game that we have not been informed of yet.
2) Everyone should be able to build structures in-game. This makes the place feel like a home, and gives you something tangible to build, defend, and attack. You already get your own personal instanced section of a city. Who's to say that you can't customize this part? 3) PvP should be of central importance - As clever human beings, we eventually learn all about a game's AI, but there is nothing quite like a human opponent - we can be brilliant, stupid, and unpredictable. There is PvP all over the game, how could you really say that they have not been targeting it. If they make it of "central importance" aka ignore the rest of the game then they would be losing out on tons of players enjoying other aspects of their game. They have already made special leaps and bounds to make this game enjoyable from a PvE aspect, as well as rewarding players for exploring and other activities that are not combat related. This in my mind makes the game much stronger, because it isn't so one dimensioned. If they created what you are speaking of the game is a one trick pony, and if I hate the trick then i'm not going to like the game. But by being multidimensional, having strong PvE content, they make game that much stronger and make it so people will want to stay longer.
I believe that the (marketing) hype is too strong. GW2 will turn out to be another SWTOR - initially impressive, but lacking once the theme-park rides have been done. Games will always have problems living up to being over hyped, but in my opinion GW2 has not said anything to garner hype that they have actually shown through the closed beta and through gaming conventions. SWTOR on the other hand, I think garnered to much hype as being something revolutionary whereas the only thing new perhaps was the voice over system, which if you don't like it then its just another MMO with light sabers :S
I disagree with OP because I don't find SWTOR along with Rift,WoW,GW1,Aion,,AoC,FF14 Initially impressive.
I more find them initially bland,cartoonish,boring,to purple,more of the same,terrible. In no particular order...
Ah and you don't find gw2 cartoonish?? You are serious?? You know what is amazing graphic? Battlefield 3 and some of the fps games. You will se how bad is graphic from gw2 when you put that on your big monitor
GW2s graphics are excellent. MMOs are measured by a different standard graphically than FPSs. Not really sure how you can watch gameplay videos and see screenshots and not think that the game is pretty impressive, visually. Of course, judging by your other posts in this thread, you're most likely just a troll who isn't happy with the state of his current game...and was hoping to spread a bit of misery. Troll on man!
I disagree with OP because I don't find SWTOR along with Rift,WoW,GW1,Aion,,AoC,FF14 Initially impressive.
I more find them initially bland,cartoonish,boring,to purple,more of the same,terrible. In no particular order...
Ah and you don't find gw2 cartoonish?? You are serious?? You know what is amazing graphic? Battlefield 3 and some of the fps games. You will se how bad is graphic from gw2 when you put that on your big monitor
Where in my post did i even mention GW2?Learn to read,I was simply disagreeing with the OP.
No MMO that has PvP as the central focus is a huge commercial success, sorry. And anyone who thinks ArenaNet can do what Blizzard, or other far more experienced, larger, and wealthier studios couldn't do is kind of fooling themselves. What GW2 needs is to continue it's emphesis on story, and develop that more and more over time. It's current incarnation doesn't come close to matching SWTOR, but it's still far better than other MMO's before SWTOR, and itself. Both games are great for the genre, and both games will probably maintain high levels of success over the next few years.
Dunno why I am even bothered but meh here it goes:
No 1. Almost everyone who tried pvp in both WoW and GW 1 would agree that GW1 had some of the best pvp in an mmo and arguably better than the pvp in WoW and with far more pvp game modes than in WoW (a big budget title by Blizzard that are apparently more experienced but that comes in No 2 dw ). PvP was a big part of GW1 and the ArenaNet back then was constrained by its budget and yet the game was a commercial success.
No 2. The core of ArenaNet developers are ex-Blizzard employees and have been involved in producing some of the aspects of WoW as well as contributing to the development of warcraft, starcraft and diablo. Again, ArenaNet's GW1 was a huge success and many players and critics alike praised the game. So we can safely say that ArenaNet DOES have the experience in the gaming industry. Speaking of which, Bioware ironically is the less experienced company when it comes to MMO genre and in reality, all that was going for SWTOR was the huge budget and Star Wars in the name of the game. That nicely leads to No 3.
No 3. GW1 blended pvp and pve content successfully. ArenaNet devs put emphasis on both equally. Just like in GW1, both pvp and pve is also geting an equal treatment in GW2. Judging from all the hands-on impressions so far, watching videos and reading everything there is to know about the game it seems like ArenaNet once again will succeed in this department. Now you look at how SWTOR turned out. The pvp appears to have many problems including exploits, botting and even the possibility of hacks. Didn't SWTOR had the budget to make this area successful? Ofc it did, but it used a HUGE chunk of the budget on cutscenes, voice actors and story. Then we hear complaints from people about what to do after reaching level 50 and finishing story for that character...or game mechanics being too similar of other mmos or generic world and lifeless towns. A great example of a company having MASSIVE budget but not spending it well. Just goes to show that having a large budget is but a single factor among the dozens of factors to make a successful mmo.
No 4. The company dramatically expanded over the past years and now there are about 250 people working at ArenaNet. So it's no small studio that it once was and it can safely be said that the devs have the budget to create far bigger things in GW2 than what they created in GW1 where budget was a large limitation factor (it was a very small studio to begin with) due to the huge amount of success with GW1 that the devs enjoyed. This point has been proven countless of times by the crazy amount of content already in the game.
"In the lead-up to the launch of Star Wars: The Old Republic, BioWare and EA increased the hype by pushing the idea that their game was revolutionary. I always cringed when I heard it. The Old Republic wrapped together a lot of things I already loved about MMOs and proved that adding a real story to that formula is a meaningful change. It was enough to draw me in and keep me hooked for a few months, but calling it "revolutionary" is an exaggeration.
ArenaNet is no BioWare. It is a relatively small Seattle-area company that many non-PC gamers haven’t even heard of, and it’s is preparing to release what appears to be the slickest, most smartly developed MMO I’ve ever seen. Oh, and there’s no subscription fee. ArenaNet has been quietly working away for years now and hasn’t used the weighty words that EA threw around so freely, so allow me to do so for them: Guild Wars 2 does everything The Old Republic promised and then some. This is the actual MMO revolution we’ve been waiting for."
So there you go. Facts speak for themselves. Do research of your own before making such misinformed and bold statements. I hope it helped to make you a little wiser now.
And ya I could have made good use of references to prove each and every point, but hey, its past midnight here in Australia and I take ages to write replies like these.
However, I would be glad to make references for any part of my reply if you ask however I suggest you first learn to make some research of your own before asking.
I believe that GW2 is lacking the three features that keep players coming back for years, namely:
3) PvP should be of central importance - As clever human beings, we eventually learn all about a game's AI, but there is nothing quite like a human opponent - we can be brilliant, stupid, and unpredictable.
I believe that GW2 is lacking the three features that keep players coming back for years, namely:
1) Everyone should be on the same server, so players have the chance to become real famous legends amongst other players.
2) Everyone should be able to build structures in-game. This makes the place feel like a home, and gives you something tangible to build, defend, and attack.
3) PvP should be of central importance - As clever human beings, we eventually learn all about a game's AI, but there is nothing quite like a human opponent - we can be brilliant, stupid, and unpredictable.
I believe that the (marketing) hype is too strong. GW2 will turn out to be another SWTOR - initially impressive, but lacking once the theme-park rides have been done.
If you don't agree with me, I would love to hear your arguments and be convinced otherwise.
For point 1:
With too many people, players don't have the same chance to become "famous legends". Most people wind up like red fish in a school of other red fish. That works if you have a total subscriber base of a couple of thousand... but hit 100k and tell me how many stand out? they are following DAOCs model here, and creating server community, and giving people a chance to become known both to their friends and their enemies.
For point 2:
There are tangible things to build, defend, and attack in the open world PVP. Guilds can claim ownership of keeps, upgrade them, reinforce them, etc. There are orbs(think relics in DAOC) that you can claim that give a tangible bonus to your side. You can harry your opponents supply lines, or guard your own. Plus there are tangible benefits and penalties to the entire server that are a direct result of your overall performance in pvp as a server, over the course of the 2-week battle.
They are trying to recapture the awesomeness of DAOCs RvR without the cheesiness, and I think they will succeed.
For point 3:
PVP is a huge factor and hugely important. Your servers performance in PvP does affect the entire server(server-wide buffs, etc). That being said, it sounds like they are covering both of them evenly. There is lots of PVE content for everyone, and there is lots of PvP with actual goals and a real purpose for those who like PvP.
ugh. not another "i want a game to be this way and if it's not it fails." TOUGH. GW2 is the way it is and bunches of us like it! WoW is the way it is and tons of people like it! SWtOR is the way it is and bunches of people like it! suck it up! sorry every game can't fit to your master plan! go play a game that does, and leave people who don't share your wants in a game ALONE! perish the f***ing thought, huh? i mean, who would ever have a different opinion than you? jeez....
I believe that GW2 is lacking the three features that keep players coming back for years, namely:
1) Everyone should be on the same server, so players have the chance to become real famous legends amongst other players.
In a game like this(as described to me thus far), I don't see it happening, same server or not. There's not really the kind of means to distinguish yourself amongst other players.
The only game I've seen do what you're saying is Eve, and I don't think it's because it's only one server. And that's not so much on an individual level as it is corporate infamy. And that can occur because ISK IS POWER, and you can have an unlimited amount of ISK.
You can have unlimited currency in GW2 as well, but unlimited gold could not potentially give unlimited power.
"Scoreboards" (some simple means to see who's top dog at X activity) would probably do more to achieve what you're saying, at least "ingame". I remember that being one of my favorite things about Motor City Online; being able to see my name posted in the top 5 on various tracks. Kinda became moot towards the end when I was probably competing with "dozens" of people, but still...
Edit: It's unfortunate that while your post seems to invite serious, objective discussion, your thread title does not. Could we all please dial back on the inflammatory titles, pretty-please?
In other news, GW2 will fail because it's not set in Narnia, doesn't have player-created housing, and does not have permadeath.
Look...games are supposed to be different from one another and that's a good thing. You're not going to find a game that satisfies every single consumer's whims and that's perfectly fine. I'm not saying that a game like the OP proposes wouldn't be good, just that not EVERY game has to be like that.
So long as GW2 succeeds at what it is attempting to do (and makes lots of $), I will consider it a success. It doesn't matter if it doesn't satisfy every single gamer's wishes and dreams.
I believe that GW2 is lacking the three features that keep players coming back for years, namely:
1) Everyone should be on the same server, so players have the chance to become real famous legends amongst other players.
2) Everyone should be able to build structures in-game. This makes the place feel like a home, and gives you something tangible to build, defend, and attack.
3) PvP should be of central importance - As clever human beings, we eventually learn all about a game's AI, but there is nothing quite like a human opponent - we can be brilliant, stupid, and unpredictable.
I believe that the (marketing) hype is too strong. GW2 will turn out to be another SWTOR - initially impressive, but lacking once the theme-park rides have been done.
If you don't agree with me, I would love to hear your arguments and be convinced otherwise.
1 is just possible for smaller games. Eve is by far the largest game pulling this off and if it had a few million players I doubt they actually could. In a perfect world it would be nice with a game that allowed millions of players on the same server but I am not sure it even is possible.
2. Yeah, that is a great feature but GW2 is a game that focus on different things. It is like complaining on Half-life since it doesn´t have RTS styled resources you need to protect.
3. I think it actually is. It will be the mists that truly will be the high point of the game. But I rather have PvP like that the the usual ganking PvP, I prefer to fight people who actually can fight back.
2) Everyone should be able to build structures in-game. This makes the place feel like a home, and gives you something tangible to build, defend, and attack.
2) No, then the game wouldn't be a theme-park would be? But you'll have your own guild hall in which you can add what you like (from what's offered ofc) and if they decide to add guild hall battles then you'll use that hall to fight against other guilds which challange yours.
Why would it instantly stop being a theme park? Why do you (and others) keep talking about the ability to build housing/structures like its the sole factor that determines whether or not a game is a 'theme park' or a 'sandbox'. Both genres are perfectly capable of supporting such a feature, and (if done well) it would be a great addition to most/all mmo's.
Because a decent housing system requires sandbox elements. In order to allow everyone to build houses they will need to add a lot of landmass. This landmass would be so big that it would probably need to just be randomly generated. It would also be so large that it would take far too long to include content along with it, plus housing could ruin content(a big house right where the boss spawns). So now you have a big area devoid of any real content and people are building houses. What reason is there to go there? All the loot drops in dungeons or from vendors, so it isn't like there are shops to visit. There is no PvP there because that takes place in the Mysts/instances, so there are no forts/bases to capture. Now do you see the problem?
Themepark MMO's are too simplified and dev content driven to include a decent housing system. As soon as you start making things more player driven then guess what? You're in sandbox territory.
I believe that GW2 is lacking the three features that keep players coming back for years, namely:
1) Everyone should be on the same server, so players have the chance to become real famous legends amongst other players.
2) Everyone should be able to build structures in-game. This makes the place feel like a home, and gives you something tangible to build, defend, and attack.
3) PvP should be of central importance - As clever human beings, we eventually learn all about a game's AI, but there is nothing quite like a human opponent - we can be brilliant, stupid, and unpredictable.
I believe that the (marketing) hype is too strong. GW2 will turn out to be another SWTOR - initially impressive, but lacking once the theme-park rides have been done.
If you don't agree with me, I would love to hear your arguments and be convinced otherwise.
Except that GW2 is, in many ways, an extension of the ideas that made up the first Guild Wars.
It has pvp but the idea of the first GW was that it was more arena based pvp. It seems this is the same except that the World pvp is more about a larger arena. The idea being that people who want to pvp will do it and people who don't want to pvp won't have to do it.
There aren't many games that have/had buildable structures. While I'll admit that it can be neat it can also become an eye sore for those who build and leave. It might be possible for housing of some sort later down the road.
Their idea of "server" is what makes the game possible with their version of the queue system. The original GW had several versions of the same zone.
In short, the original GW was pretty successful so I doubt GW2 will be less successful for not including these things or including them in a manner that you would like (pvp)
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
PVP is the least important part. I'm so sick of you PVP elitest,
Actually it is quite important. The majority of MMO players won't play a MMO unless it incorporates PvP in some form. Go look up PvP vs PvE polls and you'll see that a lot more people want PvP than you think.
Originally posted by Mors.Magne I believe that GW2 is lacking the three features that keep players coming back for years, namely:
1) Everyone should be on the same server, so players have the chance to become real famous legends amongst other players. 2) Everyone should be able to build structures in-game. This makes the place feel like a home, and gives you something tangible to build, defend, and attack. 3) PvP should be of central importance - As clever human beings, we eventually learn all about a game's AI, but there is nothing quite like a human opponent - we can be brilliant, stupid, and unpredictable.
I believe that the (marketing) hype is too strong. GW2 will turn out to be another SWTOR - initially impressive, but lacking once the theme-park rides have been done.
If you don't agree with me, I would love to hear your arguments and be convinced otherwise.
Your first three points are entirely subjective, we all know the strictest of theme parks can retain players for years as do sandbox games, it's all a matter of taste. Not everyone wants to PvP, neither are they all put off by a lack of structure building nor does everyones ego demand that they be the hero or bad ass of the server.
The bit I highlighted in orange - GW2's theme park isn't on rails, you don't get on one ride at quest giver A and get off at quest giver B or quest hub C, you just go out, explore and do it solely based on your ability to handle the content you come across, there are no rails beyond ones of skill and level in GW2's theme park ride, and note that ride is singular, the whole game is one long ride, not masses of little ones, and a ride you direct, not one forced on you by quest givers and hubs. It's an important distinction to make.
I believe that GW2 is lacking the three features that keep players coming back for years, namely:
1) Everyone should be on the same server, so players have the chance to become real famous legends amongst other players.
2) Everyone should be able to build structures in-game. This makes the place feel like a home, and gives you something tangible to build, defend, and attack.
3) PvP should be of central importance - As clever human beings, we eventually learn all about a game's AI, but there is nothing quite like a human opponent - we can be brilliant, stupid, and unpredictable.
I believe that the (marketing) hype is too strong. GW2 will turn out to be another SWTOR - initially impressive, but lacking once the theme-park rides have been done.
If you don't agree with me, I would love to hear your arguments and be convinced otherwise.
That game is already out, think they call it Darkfall...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Comments
Oh my! Arenanet's founders WERE Blizzard before Blizzard was even Blizzard... did you know Pat Wyatt worked on The Lost Vikings (one of my favorite SNES titles) when Blizzard was still Silicon & Synapse? I'm guessing not, judging by the way you stuffed your foot in your mouth right there.
You can't buy this kind of pedigree: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArenaNet
What games have those three things that "keep(s) players coming back for years" besides EVE and (unrleased) Archeage? I like the post, I'm just wondering
I can easily list games that have none of those things that also keep players coming back for years: WoW, Guild Wars 1, Everquest 2, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Maplestory . . . there are more, but I'll stop.
Let's see... in GW2, "1" and "3" are contradictory, since the major WvW PvP system is three servers battling against each other. Now, the only game I personally know of with everyone on the same server is Eve Online, and that's so heavily zoned (every system is it's own instance basically) that implementing something like that in GW2 would suck.
#2... horribly false. Imagine the landscape if a million players on a single server decided to build their own house... yuck.
Oderint, dum metuant.
LOL, you're right, that is a horrible image, and we don't even have to talk about numbers as high as a million, imagine running into a town of 100K houses, and trying to navigate them all (or even burn them all down).
I do like games that have pre-built keeps or castles which players can capture and control, such as Lineage 2 or DAOC.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I disagree with OP because I don't find SWTOR along with Rift,WoW,GW1,Aion,,AoC,FF14 Initially impressive.
I more find them initially bland,cartoonish,boring,to purple,more of the same,terrible. In no particular order...
OP, i'd suggest doing a bit of research on WvW in GW2...from what we know, it will have an integral part to play in the world as a whole. Also, in the Guild Features article written on this site, it alluded to guilds having the ability to construct Guild Halls.
Sorroe, Human Mesmer
Jade Quarry Server
Ah and you don't find gw2 cartoonish?? You are serious?? You know what is amazing graphic? Battlefield 3 and some of the fps games. You will se how bad is graphic from gw2 when you put that on your big monitor
+1
Are you familiar with the first guild wars? If not, let me tell you they have continued to roll out content for that game at least once a year if not more. ArenaNet said they plan to do the same with GW2. So as long as content keeps rolling out for both PvE and PvP, then the entertainment should be nearly endless at the cost of nothing (no sub fee) but only paying for the original game and its expansions.
[quote]Originally posted by Mors.Magne
[b]I believe that GW2 is lacking the three features that keep players coming back for years, namely:
1) Everyone should be on the same server, so players have the chance to become real famous legends amongst other players.
Why? GW2 has been talking about actually making it so that one can be proud of their server, and have a type of large standing community you don't have in other games. Sure you could have one massive server, but then you wouldn't have co-op you would when your entire server is trying their best to win against two others. This type of server coordination has been seen in ages, which is perhaps why you don't see this as a strength when it is. Plus Anet has already said that if you so wished to switch server's it isn't going to be some major hassle or cost real money.seems to me that you are speaking about a feature that may already have some basis in the game that we have not been informed of yet.
2) Everyone should be able to build structures in-game. This makes the place feel like a home, and gives you something tangible to build, defend, and attack.
You already get your own personal instanced section of a city. Who's to say that you can't customize this part?
3) PvP should be of central importance - As clever human beings, we eventually learn all about a game's AI, but there is nothing quite like a human opponent - we can be brilliant, stupid, and unpredictable.
There is PvP all over the game, how could you really say that they have not been targeting it. If they make it of "central importance" aka ignore the rest of the game then they would be losing out on tons of players enjoying other aspects of their game. They have already made special leaps and bounds to make this game enjoyable from a PvE aspect, as well as rewarding players for exploring and other activities that are not combat related. This in my mind makes the game much stronger, because it isn't so one dimensioned. If they created what you are speaking of the game is a one trick pony, and if I hate the trick then i'm not going to like the game. But by being multidimensional, having strong PvE content, they make game that much stronger and make it so people will want to stay longer.
I believe that the (marketing) hype is too strong. GW2 will turn out to be another SWTOR - initially impressive, but lacking once the theme-park rides have been done.
Games will always have problems living up to being over hyped, but in my opinion GW2 has not said anything to garner hype that they have actually shown through the closed beta and through gaming conventions. SWTOR on the other hand, I think garnered to much hype as being something revolutionary whereas the only thing new perhaps was the voice over system, which if you don't like it then its just another MMO with light sabers :S
GW2s graphics are excellent. MMOs are measured by a different standard graphically than FPSs. Not really sure how you can watch gameplay videos and see screenshots and not think that the game is pretty impressive, visually. Of course, judging by your other posts in this thread, you're most likely just a troll who isn't happy with the state of his current game...and was hoping to spread a bit of misery. Troll on man!
Sorroe, Human Mesmer
Jade Quarry Server
Where in my post did i even mention GW2?Learn to read,I was simply disagreeing with the OP.
Dunno why I am even bothered but meh here it goes:
No 1. Almost everyone who tried pvp in both WoW and GW 1 would agree that GW1 had some of the best pvp in an mmo and arguably better than the pvp in WoW and with far more pvp game modes than in WoW (a big budget title by Blizzard that are apparently more experienced but that comes in No 2 dw
). PvP was a big part of GW1 and the ArenaNet back then was constrained by its budget and yet the game was a commercial success.
No 2. The core of ArenaNet developers are ex-Blizzard employees and have been involved in producing some of the aspects of WoW as well as contributing to the development of warcraft, starcraft and diablo. Again, ArenaNet's GW1 was a huge success and many players and critics alike praised the game. So we can safely say that ArenaNet DOES have the experience in the gaming industry. Speaking of which, Bioware ironically is the less experienced company when it comes to MMO genre and in reality, all that was going for SWTOR was the huge budget and Star Wars in the name of the game. That nicely leads to No 3.
No 3. GW1 blended pvp and pve content successfully. ArenaNet devs put emphasis on both equally. Just like in GW1, both pvp and pve is also geting an equal treatment in GW2. Judging from all the hands-on impressions so far, watching videos and reading everything there is to know about the game it seems like ArenaNet once again will succeed in this department. Now you look at how SWTOR turned out. The pvp appears to have many problems including exploits, botting and even the possibility of hacks. Didn't SWTOR had the budget to make this area successful? Ofc it did, but it used a HUGE chunk of the budget on cutscenes, voice actors and story. Then we hear complaints from people about what to do after reaching level 50 and finishing story for that character...or game mechanics being too similar of other mmos or generic world and lifeless towns. A great example of a company having MASSIVE budget but not spending it well. Just goes to show that having a large budget is but a single factor among the dozens of factors to make a successful mmo.
No 4. The company dramatically expanded over the past years and now there are about 250 people working at ArenaNet. So it's no small studio that it once was and it can safely be said that the devs have the budget to create far bigger things in GW2 than what they created in GW1 where budget was a large limitation factor (it was a very small studio to begin with) due to the huge amount of success with GW1 that the devs enjoyed. This point has been proven countless of times by the crazy amount of content already in the game.
No 5. "It's current incarnation doesn't come close to matching SWTOR". Maybe because at its current state GW2 is running on alpha servers? But then again, go check out all the hands on previews, and there are countless of predictions being made that GW2 is the next big mmo. Heck, even go check out this link http://www.gameinformer.com/games/guild_wars_2/b/pc/archive/2012/02/20/guild-wars-2-is-the-mmo-revolution-that-star-wars-the-old-republic-promised.aspx?PostPageIndex=2 where the author (who, remember, had hands on experience) says that GW2 is the real mmo revolution. The following quote comes straight from this article:
"In the lead-up to the launch of Star Wars: The Old Republic, BioWare and EA increased the hype by pushing the idea that their game was revolutionary. I always cringed when I heard it. The Old Republic wrapped together a lot of things I already loved about MMOs and proved that adding a real story to that formula is a meaningful change. It was enough to draw me in and keep me hooked for a few months, but calling it "revolutionary" is an exaggeration.
ArenaNet is no BioWare. It is a relatively small Seattle-area company that many non-PC gamers haven’t even heard of, and it’s is preparing to release what appears to be the slickest, most smartly developed MMO I’ve ever seen. Oh, and there’s no subscription fee. ArenaNet has been quietly working away for years now and hasn’t used the weighty words that EA threw around so freely, so allow me to do so for them: Guild Wars 2 does everything The Old Republic promised and then some. This is the actual MMO revolution we’ve been waiting for."
So there you go. Facts speak for themselves. Do research of your own before making such misinformed and bold statements. I hope it helped to make you a little wiser now.
And ya I could have made good use of references to prove each and every point, but hey, its past midnight here in Australia and I take ages to write replies like these.
However, I would be glad to make references for any part of my reply if you ask however I suggest you first learn to make some research of your own before asking.
Looking forward to EQL and EQN.
Do you know anything about GW2 at all?
For point 1:
With too many people, players don't have the same chance to become "famous legends". Most people wind up like red fish in a school of other red fish. That works if you have a total subscriber base of a couple of thousand... but hit 100k and tell me how many stand out? they are following DAOCs model here, and creating server community, and giving people a chance to become known both to their friends and their enemies.
For point 2:
There are tangible things to build, defend, and attack in the open world PVP. Guilds can claim ownership of keeps, upgrade them, reinforce them, etc. There are orbs(think relics in DAOC) that you can claim that give a tangible bonus to your side. You can harry your opponents supply lines, or guard your own. Plus there are tangible benefits and penalties to the entire server that are a direct result of your overall performance in pvp as a server, over the course of the 2-week battle.
They are trying to recapture the awesomeness of DAOCs RvR without the cheesiness, and I think they will succeed.
For point 3:
PVP is a huge factor and hugely important. Your servers performance in PvP does affect the entire server(server-wide buffs, etc). That being said, it sounds like they are covering both of them evenly. There is lots of PVE content for everyone, and there is lots of PvP with actual goals and a real purpose for those who like PvP.
ugh. not another "i want a game to be this way and if it's not it fails." TOUGH. GW2 is the way it is and bunches of us like it! WoW is the way it is and tons of people like it! SWtOR is the way it is and bunches of people like it! suck it up! sorry every game can't fit to your master plan! go play a game that does, and leave people who don't share your wants in a game ALONE! perish the f***ing thought, huh? i mean, who would ever have a different opinion than you? jeez....
In a game like this(as described to me thus far), I don't see it happening, same server or not. There's not really the kind of means to distinguish yourself amongst other players.
The only game I've seen do what you're saying is Eve, and I don't think it's because it's only one server. And that's not so much on an individual level as it is corporate infamy. And that can occur because ISK IS POWER, and you can have an unlimited amount of ISK.
You can have unlimited currency in GW2 as well, but unlimited gold could not potentially give unlimited power.
"Scoreboards" (some simple means to see who's top dog at X activity) would probably do more to achieve what you're saying, at least "ingame". I remember that being one of my favorite things about Motor City Online; being able to see my name posted in the top 5 on various tracks. Kinda became moot towards the end when I was probably competing with "dozens" of people, but still...
Edit: It's unfortunate that while your post seems to invite serious, objective discussion, your thread title does not. Could we all please dial back on the inflammatory titles, pretty-please?
In other news, GW2 will fail because it's not set in Narnia, doesn't have player-created housing, and does not have permadeath.
Look...games are supposed to be different from one another and that's a good thing. You're not going to find a game that satisfies every single consumer's whims and that's perfectly fine. I'm not saying that a game like the OP proposes wouldn't be good, just that not EVERY game has to be like that.
So long as GW2 succeeds at what it is attempting to do (and makes lots of $), I will consider it a success. It doesn't matter if it doesn't satisfy every single gamer's wishes and dreams.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
1 is just possible for smaller games. Eve is by far the largest game pulling this off and if it had a few million players I doubt they actually could. In a perfect world it would be nice with a game that allowed millions of players on the same server but I am not sure it even is possible.
2. Yeah, that is a great feature but GW2 is a game that focus on different things. It is like complaining on Half-life since it doesn´t have RTS styled resources you need to protect.
3. I think it actually is. It will be the mists that truly will be the high point of the game. But I rather have PvP like that the the usual ganking PvP, I prefer to fight people who actually can fight back.
PVP is the least important part. I'm so sick of you PVP elitest,
Because a decent housing system requires sandbox elements. In order to allow everyone to build houses they will need to add a lot of landmass. This landmass would be so big that it would probably need to just be randomly generated. It would also be so large that it would take far too long to include content along with it, plus housing could ruin content(a big house right where the boss spawns). So now you have a big area devoid of any real content and people are building houses. What reason is there to go there? All the loot drops in dungeons or from vendors, so it isn't like there are shops to visit. There is no PvP there because that takes place in the Mysts/instances, so there are no forts/bases to capture. Now do you see the problem?
Themepark MMO's are too simplified and dev content driven to include a decent housing system. As soon as you start making things more player driven then guess what? You're in sandbox territory.
Except that GW2 is, in many ways, an extension of the ideas that made up the first Guild Wars.
It has pvp but the idea of the first GW was that it was more arena based pvp. It seems this is the same except that the World pvp is more about a larger arena. The idea being that people who want to pvp will do it and people who don't want to pvp won't have to do it.
There aren't many games that have/had buildable structures. While I'll admit that it can be neat it can also become an eye sore for those who build and leave. It might be possible for housing of some sort later down the road.
Their idea of "server" is what makes the game possible with their version of the queue system. The original GW had several versions of the same zone.
In short, the original GW was pretty successful so I doubt GW2 will be less successful for not including these things or including them in a manner that you would like (pvp)
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Actually it is quite important. The majority of MMO players won't play a MMO unless it incorporates PvP in some form. Go look up PvP vs PvE polls and you'll see that a lot more people want PvP than you think.
Your first three points are entirely subjective, we all know the strictest of theme parks can retain players for years as do sandbox games, it's all a matter of taste. Not everyone wants to PvP, neither are they all put off by a lack of structure building nor does everyones ego demand that they be the hero or bad ass of the server.
The bit I highlighted in orange - GW2's theme park isn't on rails, you don't get on one ride at quest giver A and get off at quest giver B or quest hub C, you just go out, explore and do it solely based on your ability to handle the content you come across, there are no rails beyond ones of skill and level in GW2's theme park ride, and note that ride is singular, the whole game is one long ride, not masses of little ones, and a ride you direct, not one forced on you by quest givers and hubs. It's an important distinction to make.
That game is already out, think they call it Darkfall...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!