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MMORPGs in diagrams

Hello everybody. Sometime ago I've posted small SWTOR review here on mmorpg.com forums where I tried to explain my concerns about SWTOR mechanics. I used diagramms to illustrate my thoughts about MMORPG in general and about SWTOR in particular. Apparently people have appreciated this approach so I decided to do an analysis of other games too.

The bottom line is that any MMO is a set of gaming spheres in which social interaction occurs. For greater clarity, I have identified four basic areas (of course this is a very rough generalization):



  • PvE


  • PvP


  • Crafting & Economy


  • Open World Interaction (OWI)


Then I made the thesis that the basis of the living MMO world is that the spheres intersects and influence each other.


 

So here some diagrams:

Default Good Balanced MMORPG game

 

EVE

 

WoW

 

Everquest 2

 

Lineage 2

 

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes

 

SWTOR

 

Of course, these schemes do not claim to ultimate truth, but it seems to me that this approach allows you to visually express your own perceptions of the gameplay. I'll be glad to see your opinions and the analysis of other games in this thread .

 

UPD:


I made this big red circle in SWTOR diagram only because this topic (voice acting) was so much discussed. Simply remove the red circle and you get a plausible picture of SWTOR. I'm not hater of SWTOR and do not regret time spent on it. It's just too raw atm. I would not want to start holywar about SWTOR here. Think of the last scheme with iroiney ;-)

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Comments

  • ste2000ste2000 londonPosts: 4,706Member Uncommon

    I loled at Swtor diagram image

  • nottorious91nottorious91 BacauPosts: 19Member

    I approve of this thread ;)

    Especially SWTOR... lets see how GW2 will go..

    image

  • DannyGloverDannyGlover Portland, ORPosts: 1,277Member

    Could've saved yourself some time and just made one giant bubble that said COMBAT and one tiny dot that said everything else

    I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.

  • PKJackCrowPKJackCrow Ginowan cityPosts: 231Member

    this is pretty good, i wish i could have a game like the first one. and i do think your perception of the othe rgames seems to be spot on.

  • ste2000ste2000 londonPosts: 4,706Member Uncommon

    By the way I suggest a diagram for Darkfall

    Same as EVE but with less enphasis on the PvE and bigger pie of PvP and Crafting (crafting slightly smaller than PvP)

  • ste2000ste2000 londonPosts: 4,706Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by rounner

    [Mod Edit]

    Yes it's true, that's why I loled

    The voice acting should be included in the PvE pie, I guess the OP meant to be sarcastic there.

    You shouldn't really take it too seriously, I don't think that was the intent of the OP


  • Originally posted by ste2000

    You shouldn't really take it too seriously, I don't think that was the intent of the OP

    Yep :-)

  • jusomdudejusomdude Posts: 2,389Member Uncommon

    Yeah, it's obvious the OP has a dislike of SWTOR. The graphs look right for the other games I've played but the TOR one is way off.

  • OwyenOwyen HarderwijkPosts: 2Member

    Think im gonna subscribe to EVE again. The diagram perfectly explains why.


  • Originally posted by jusomdude

    Yeah, it's obvious the OP has a dislike of SWTOR. The graphs look right for the other games I've played but the TOR one is way off.

    I made this big red circle only because this topic (voice acting) was so much discussed. Simply remove the red circle and you get a plausible picture of SWTOR.

  • MajinashMajinash st louis, MOPosts: 1,320Member

    I feel like the diagram you used for EVE should be the default for balanced, as everything in an MMO should be linked back to people interacting in a persistant world.

     

    Though your L2 and WoW diagrams seemed spot on to me.

     

    Also got quite a laugh out of the SWTOR one... People in my guild still drop out of the mumble channel so they can listen to their class quests... they leave chatting with guild so they can hear the voice overs, does seem to be the biggest draw of the game.

    Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.

  • delete5230delete5230 Posts: 2,965Member Uncommon

    Actually, I like your sphere Idea.  However I don't agree with all your interactions :

     

    In WoW you have PVE interacting with OWI. This is true in Vanilla WoW but not anymore. Their is no interaction with the Open world since the Dungeon finder. NO ONE PLAYS TOGETHER in open world anymore.  Now if your adding instanced PVE ( dungeon finder ) to your OWI then they would be merged close to 100%.

    Vanguard, Yes it has a very low population but PVE should interact with QWI more. Vanguard is a duo or more game and the player base that survives after a few weeks are the ones that would team up or works with a guild more often than any other game. You often see groups if you see anyone at all !

    SWTOR by having all spheres NOT interacting at all, I could tell that you personally don't like the game, and this would be a dig to the game. Hay don't get me wrong SWTOR is crap as far as an mmo, so I agree :)...... But you should have PVE merged with OWI at least a little bit.

     

  • jusomdudejusomdude Posts: 2,389Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by rokoto

    Originally posted by jusomdude

    Yeah, it's obvious the OP has a dislike of SWTOR. The graphs look right for the other games I've played but the TOR one is way off.

    I made this big red circle only because this topic (voice acting) was so much discussed. Simply remove the red circle and you get a plausible picture of SWTOR.

    Not really, by your diagram, no one pvps on Ilum or not a soul interacts with anyone else while out leveling, which isn't true.

    Also, there is open world pvp on pvp servers.

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member

    1) I like this approach: Anyone can process High-Level game design very quickly vs Wall-Of-Text and compare MMOs v quickly. Also I've not played a bunch of the above so the above is the immediate Top-Level Information I WANT TO KNOW 1ST about a mmorpg before working out specific peccadillo features any individual is wanting.

    10/10 from me OP.


    Originally posted by Majinash

    I feel like the diagram you used for EVE should be the default for balanced, as everything in an MMO should be linked back to people interacting in a persistant world. [...]-snip-

    ^2) I agree, my opinioin concurs with Majinash, the Super-Set for mmorpg is Open-World-Interaction [& you could add Single-Shard server system , again that is something ideal also imo] ~ edit: caveat: At least for sandbox, maybe not for themepark? So maybe your DEFAULT is perhaps the best "down the middle" representation after all? ; )

    3) Be interested in a GW2 inclusion and some more sandbox mmorpgs too.

    Keep up the good work.

     


  • Originally posted by jusomdude

    Originally posted by rokoto


    Originally posted by jusomdude

    Yeah, it's obvious the OP has a dislike of SWTOR. The graphs look right for the other games I've played but the TOR one is way off.

    I made this big red circle only because this topic (voice acting) was so much discussed. Simply remove the red circle and you get a plausible picture of SWTOR.

    Not really, by your diagram, no one pvps on Ilum or not a soul interacts with anyone else while out leveling, which isn't true.

    Also, there is open world pvp on pvp servers.

    If you approach this as meticulous then of course you're right. The problem is that personally I have no feeling that tere is "world" in SWTOR atm. Even on Ilume PvP and PvE activities intersections are reduced to a minimum by the developers. Open PvP between players occurs not because of but in spite of game design. I would not want to start holywar about SWTOR here. Think of the last scheme with iroiney ;-)

  • jusomdudejusomdude Posts: 2,389Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by rokoto

    Originally posted by jusomdude


    Originally posted by rokoto


    Originally posted by jusomdude

    Yeah, it's obvious the OP has a dislike of SWTOR. The graphs look right for the other games I've played but the TOR one is way off.

    I made this big red circle only because this topic (voice acting) was so much discussed. Simply remove the red circle and you get a plausible picture of SWTOR.

    Not really, by your diagram, no one pvps on Ilum or not a soul interacts with anyone else while out leveling, which isn't true.

    Also, there is open world pvp on pvp servers.

    If you approach this as meticulous then of course you're right. The problem is that personally I have no feeling that tere is "world" in SWTOR atm. Even on Ilume PvP and PvE activities intersections are reduced to a minimum by the developers. Open PvP between players occurs not because of but in spite of game design. I would not want to start holywar about SWTOR here. Think of the last scheme with iroiney ;-)

    So, in other words, the TOR diagram can be completely disregarded as anything other than a mixed in troll diagram.

  • DisdenaDisdena Troy, NYPosts: 1,093Member

    Originally posted by jusomdude

    So, in other words, the TOR diagram can be completely disregarded as anything other than a mixed in troll diagram.

    I have a feeling the whole thread was a lead-up to the troll picture.

    What are the overlapping areas supposed to represent? What does it mean if Crafting is heavily overlapped with PvP, vs a little bit overlapped or not at all? What does it mean if PvP is overlapped with PvE, and so on? Does it just mean that you do both of those things at the same time or what? Explain yourself.

    image
  • myrmxmyrmx ste-catherine, QCPosts: 93Member

    your diagram for wow is flawed because Alterac valley is not displayed on there ( pve content linked to pvp .. even if it's tiny it's still in there and should be represented).

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,936Member Uncommon

    Great concept.  I like OWI.  Interaction is uncommon in some games, and a huge part of others.  People who have never seen it (SP MMO crowd), don't realize that such even exists.

     


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • Lille7Lille7 Ljungskile, AKPosts: 301Member

    Originally posted by jusomdude

    Originally posted by rokoto


    Originally posted by jusomdude


    Originally posted by rokoto


    Originally posted by jusomdude

    Yeah, it's obvious the OP has a dislike of SWTOR. The graphs look right for the other games I've played but the TOR one is way off.

    I made this big red circle only because this topic (voice acting) was so much discussed. Simply remove the red circle and you get a plausible picture of SWTOR.

    Not really, by your diagram, no one pvps on Ilum or not a soul interacts with anyone else while out leveling, which isn't true.

    Also, there is open world pvp on pvp servers.

    If you approach this as meticulous then of course you're right. The problem is that personally I have no feeling that tere is "world" in SWTOR atm. Even on Ilume PvP and PvE activities intersections are reduced to a minimum by the developers. Open PvP between players occurs not because of but in spite of game design. I would not want to start holywar about SWTOR here. Think of the last scheme with iroiney ;-)

    So, in other words, the TOR diagram can be completely disregarded as anything other than a mixed in troll diagram.

    You really shouldn't throw the term troll around so much. It was a joke. But it seems he stepped on someones toes, can't you just relax and not take it so seriously?

     

    I think these diagrams was pretty much spot on for how my impression of these games are (haven't played all of them though) and a fun way to show how the games are designed on a very high level.

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,936Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by delete5230

    Actually, I like your sphere Idea.  However I don't agree with all your interactions :

    In WoW you have PVE interacting with OWI. This is true in Vanilla WoW but not anymore. Their is no interaction with the Open world since the Dungeon finder. NO ONE PLAYS TOGETHER in open world anymore.

     

    I seldom even see soloers in open world.  Even in guild chat, the first thing new people say is "want to run randoms?"  Never "looking for questing partners".

    It's a lobby game.


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com

  • Originally posted by myrmx

    your diagram for wow is flawed because Alterac valley is not displayed on there ( pve content linked to pvp .. even if it's tiny it's still in there and should be represented).

    I thought about it but I don't know how to represent these connection. It's battleground but yep there is PvE also. Anyway these diagrams are only my personal perception of games. Feel free to add your variations in this post. You can use some online tools to make one, lucidchart for example.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,784Member Uncommon

    The next great innovation in MMORPGs will be content types that are not in the shape of balls.  :D

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,676Member Uncommon

    Very cool charts, rokoto.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYPosts: 2,211Member

    Originally posted by Quizzical

    The next great innovation in MMORPGs will be content types that are not in the shape of balls.  :D

    Hahahaha.

     

    As others said, EvE's diagram kinda makes me want to play EvE.

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