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Was DAOC a Theme Park or a Sand Box

WicoaWicoa LondonPosts: 1,602Member Uncommon

Just came up with this question in my head its friday night and I have a glass of wine, yes this is how geeks party.

In daoc I did not follow quest paths, from a low level it was about finding a group and grinding up mobs at various patches with people.  You could build your own house and RvR was an open ended pvp situation.

Let me know what you think.

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Comments

  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYPosts: 2,211Member

    Originally posted by Wicoa

    Just came up with this question in my head its friday night and I have a glass of wine, yes this is how geeks party.

    In daoc I did not follow quest paths, from a low level it was about finding a group and grinding up mobs at various patches with people.  You could build your own house and RvR was an open ended pvp situation.

    Let me know what you think.

    It was mainly a themepark, but it had some virtual worlds influences.

  • punkrockpunkrock va, VAPosts: 1,777Member

    There was no quest reallty in the old DAOC*unless you ask a guard but few knew of those lol*

    I would say a sandbox in some ways, but not really a theme park becouse there was no line to follow.

  • sirphobossirphobos Ames, IAPosts: 614Member Common

    Depends on who you ask.  Some people take sandbox to mean a game based around user generated content.  Others take it to mean open world, non linear, non quest focused.  Under the first definition, "classic" MMOs like Everquest, Asheron's Call, and DAOC are definitely not sandboxes, yet using the second definition, they would be considered sandboxes.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member

    It was a themepark.  The only folks who will think it is a sandbox probably never played a sandbox, and think that EQ1 was a sandbox.

    EDIT:

    You know, it may be more accurate to say that when DAoC was released and when it was popular, it was definitely a themepark.  Nowadays though, people may consider it to be a sandbox.  But this has nothing to do with changes in the game and everything to do with people expecting more linear experiences from MMORPGs.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • punkrockpunkrock va, VAPosts: 1,777Member

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    It was a themepark.  The only folks who will think it is a sandbox probably never played a sandbox, and think that EQ1 was a sandbox.

    Oh yay sandbox snab is here*rolls eyes*  there is other types of sandboxes not just you`re type.

    Just becouse it was not ryzom or w/e little game you think is a sandbox, does not mean it`s not a sandbox. 

    Man little let smelling you`re own a@@, get some fresh air.

  • rutaqrutaq somerville, MAPosts: 428Member Uncommon

    Well...



    • it didn't have the same level of directed play that WoW,


    • it did have a somewhat open world


    • it had some limited amount of player driven content around relics

    ...  so it did have some sandbox like elements.

     

      But I don't feel it had enough to be called a "sandbox", instead it was a Sandpark.

  • mlauzonmlauzon Toronto, ONPosts: 766Member


    Originally posted by Wicoa
    It's Friday night and I have a glass of wine, yes this is how geeks party.


    Please, speak for yourself, because I'm a Geek and that's not how I party!

    --
    Michael
    image

  • punkrockpunkrock va, VAPosts: 1,777Member

    Originally posted by sirphobos

    Depends on who you ask.  Some people take sandbox to mean a game based around user generated content.  Others take it to mean open world, non linear, non quest focused.  Under the first definition, "classic" MMOs like Everquest, Asheron's Call, and DAOC are definitely not sandboxes, yet using the second definition, they would be considered sandboxes.

    You are correct, it depends on what you think a sandbox is.

    Unlike Creslin321, that thinks sandboxes can only be of one type.

  • ThorbrandThorbrand West Palm Beach, FLPosts: 1,198Member

    DAOC was a MMO, just like EQ. Had quest but not quest HUBS, had customization that isn't in modern MMOs, more open world content. But it had classes and that makes it semi-themepark. You want sandbox it is almost all freedom of choice and skill based instead of levels.

    Now that I think about it you can't compare any of the pre-wow MMOs to modern day themepark games. Just not even close to the same. Even vanilla WOW would be considered sandbox by todays standards of MMOs.

     

  • EcocesEcoces Chicago, ILPosts: 879Member Uncommon

    it was a themebox, had a good mix of sandbox and themepark elements. EQ1 was the same thing but it definitely was not a sandbox.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member

    Originally posted by punkrock

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    It was a themepark.  The only folks who will think it is a sandbox probably never played a sandbox, and think that EQ1 was a sandbox.

    Oh yay sandbox snab is here*rolls eyes*  there is other types of sandboxes not just you`re type.

    Just becouse it was not ryzom or w/e little game you think is a sandbox, does not mean it`s not a sandbox. 

    Man little let smelling you`re own a@@, get some fresh air.

     Sorry if I offended you, but try to understand where I'm coming from.

    When I started playing MMORPGs, there was only Ultima Online.  A few years down the road, Everquest came out and the distinction between sandbox and themepark was created.  To me, and to many other people, Everquest was the first game recognized as a themepark, so I use it as a touchstone.

    DAoC is EXTREMELY similar to Everquest in many respects, so I see it as a themepark.  I find it...interesting that many folks nowadays are trying to say that Everquest, and thus similar games like DAoC, were a sandboxes...which is funny because EQ was the FIRST themepark.

    I really don't think the game elements that WoW popularized like questing have anything to do with the sandbox/themepark distinction.  So the fact that DAoC didn't have any major questing is irrelevant IMO.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • MosesZDMosesZD Kirkwood, MOPosts: 1,383Member

    Hybrid.   Had features of both.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member

    Originally posted by Thorbrand

    DAOC was a MMO, just like EQ. Had quest but not quest HUBS, had customization that isn't in modern MMOs, more open world content. But it had classes and that makes it semi-themepark. You want sandbox it is almost all freedom of choice and skill based instead of levels.

    Now that I think about it you can't compare any of the pre-wow MMOs to modern day themepark games. Just not even close to the same. Even vanilla WOW would be considered sandbox by todays standards of MMOs.

     

     LOL yeah and that's the problem.  The "balance" on the scale of "linear vs. non-linear" with MMORPGs has shifted SO far in the direction of linear with recent releases that even games that defined the term theme park are being called sandboxes.  If it keeps up, people will be calling WoTLK a sandbox and wishing for the great old sandbox fun of phasing.

    Personally, I think it's ridiculous.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • punkrockpunkrock va, VAPosts: 1,777Member

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Originally posted by punkrock


    Originally posted by Creslin321

    It was a themepark.  The only folks who will think it is a sandbox probably never played a sandbox, and think that EQ1 was a sandbox.

    Oh yay sandbox snab is here*rolls eyes*  there is other types of sandboxes not just you`re type.

    Just becouse it was not ryzom or w/e little game you think is a sandbox, does not mean it`s not a sandbox. 

    Man little let smelling you`re own a@@, get some fresh air.

     Sorry if I offended you, but try to understand where I'm coming from.

    When I started playing MMORPGs, there was only Ultima Online.  A few years down the road, Everquest came out and the distinction between sandbox and themepark was created.  To me, and to many other people, Everquest was the first game recognized as a themepark, so I use it as a touchstone.

    DAoC is EXTREMELY similar to Everquest in many respects, so I see it as a themepark.  I find it...interesting that many folks nowadays are trying to say that Everquest, and thus similar games like DAoC, were a sandboxes...which is funny because EQ was the FIRST themepark.

    I really don't think the game elements that WoW popularized like questing have anything to do with the sandbox/themepark distinction.  So the fact that DAoC didn't have any major questing is irrelevant IMO.

    Dam you had to go and say sorry lol!! there goes my fire*probly a good thing anyways lol*  ok i forgive you,

    To me it was a type of sandbox i guess. I never played EQ becouse it was really pve type of game.

  • jusomdudejusomdude Somewhere, KSPosts: 2,401Member

    If it came out today it would definetely be called themepark, with the best pvp.

    Only, there was hardly a quest to be found. Most of my time in the game was spent grinding mobs, either in dungeons and groups or alone.

    The dungeons weren't instanced to groups or players though, there could be many groups in the same dungeon.

     

    So, I'd still call it a themepark, just with a few different features.

  • jusomdudejusomdude Somewhere, KSPosts: 2,401Member

    I just want to know what the sandbox elements are, that people are claiming were in the game. The closest sandbox feature it had were open dungeons.

    Everyone in the thread that has said sandbox has said so without a reason.

  • SuperXero89SuperXero89 Amory, MSPosts: 2,544Member Uncommon

    I don't consider games like DAoC, AO, or EQ to be either themepark or sandbox.  A themepark game needs linear quest progression, which those games don't really have or at least didn't have when they were popular.

  • jusomdudejusomdude Somewhere, KSPosts: 2,401Member

    Originally posted by SuperXero89

    I don't consider games like DAoC, AO, or EQ to be either themepark or sandbox.  A themepark game needs linear quest progression, which those games don't really have or at least didn't have when they were popular.

    The game was still pretty much a linear progression through areas though. There were a few options of where you could fight mobs your level, but even WoW has that.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member

    Originally posted by jusomdude

    I just want to know what the sandbox elements are, that people are claiming were in the game. The closest sandbox feature it had were open dungeons.

    Everyone in the thread that has said sandbox has said so without a reason.

     LOL yeah I know.  It's not a sandbox in any way shape on form.

    DAoC has specific areas for specific levels that provide a path for progression to max level just like any other themepark.  It also has classes with well defined roles...just like any other themepark.  And as for the RvR, it's all preconstructed zones that you fight over.  It's not like they are player created or controlled or anything.

    I'm not saying it's bad, I loved DAoC, but I realize what it was.  It was a very good and unique early themepark.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • xDayxxDayx St Charles, MOPosts: 712Member

    Everyone has different definitions of Themepark/Sandbox... Mine are:

    Themepark

    Quests

    Levels

    Instances

    Crafting but not alot of building or construction

    No item-decay

     

    Sandbox

    No quests

    Skill based/not levels

    Open World

    Crafting/Building/Player-Construction Heavy

    Item decay

     

    So according to my definition... No. DAOC was not a sandbox.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,905Member Uncommon

    I'd say definitely a thempark, just a very open-ended one.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,991Member Uncommon
    Although advancement wasn't quest based it most defintiely was a theme park as players were more or less guided from one zone to the next based on their level. It had many more virtual world elements than MMO's today and an alternate PVP focused end game instead of the typical gear grind. (Well, at until the released the tragedy that was called TOA)

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
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  • Ghost12Ghost12 Boston, MAPosts: 684Member

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Originally posted by jusomdude

    I just want to know what the sandbox elements are, that people are claiming were in the game. The closest sandbox feature it had were open dungeons.

    Everyone in the thread that has said sandbox has said so without a reason.

     LOL yeah I know.  It's not a sandbox in any way shape on form.

    DAoC has specific areas for specific levels that provide a path for progression to max level just like any other themepark.  It also has classes with well defined roles...just like any other themepark.  And as for the RvR, it's all preconstructed zones that you fight over.  It's not like they are player created or controlled or anything.

    I'm not saying it's bad, I loved DAoC, but I realize what it was.  It was a very good and unique early themepark.

     

    Actually, DAOC was known for its unique class variety. It had over 27 classes to choose from. Many of these classes did not have defined roles, but were hybrids. Personally I loved it, I loved playing my mercenary and my reaver :D, mainly because my roles were not clearly defined.

    DAOC was indeed a themepark. But one of the things that made it a good themepark were the classes.  There were many, many classes and I definitely preferred the variety to the ultra boring 5-6 class system that followed.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member

    Originally posted by Ghost12

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Originally posted by jusomdude

    I just want to know what the sandbox elements are, that people are claiming were in the game. The closest sandbox feature it had were open dungeons.

    Everyone in the thread that has said sandbox has said so without a reason.

     LOL yeah I know.  It's not a sandbox in any way shape on form.

    DAoC has specific areas for specific levels that provide a path for progression to max level just like any other themepark.  It also has classes with well defined roles...just like any other themepark.  And as for the RvR, it's all preconstructed zones that you fight over.  It's not like they are player created or controlled or anything.

    I'm not saying it's bad, I loved DAoC, but I realize what it was.  It was a very good and unique early themepark.

     

    Actually, DAOC was known for its unique class variety. It had over 27 classes to choose from. Many of these classes did not have defined roles, but were hybrids. Personally I loved it, I loved playing my mercenary and my reaver :D, mainly because my roles were not clearly defined.

    DAOC was indeed a themepark. But one of the things that made it a good themepark were the classes.  There were many, many classes and I definitely preferred the variety to the ultra boring 5-6 class system that followed.

     That's true, and I have have mispoke (typed?).  I didn't mean that DAoC's classes had very specific roles like "healer" or "tank."  I meant that DAoC's classes all had their "schtick" and were pretty much relegated to that.  Aborist summoned turrets, Bonedancers had a full party of pets, scouts sniped people, etc...  Admittedly, the schtick for some classes was very cool :).

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • GlyalithGlyalith Huntington, NYPosts: 35Member

    My opinion is for many, a sandbox MMORPG is about more than playing  agame, it's about living in a completely open ended game world.  Some static features that are found in these games are open ended pvp, skill based character advancement, flexiability in where and how you choose to advance your character, and where crafting is a huge part of the economy.  

     

    Basically to me a sandbox MMO is where you are not limited by linear level design or quest tracks but instead have the feedom to create your own content.  

     

    Dark Ages of Camelot has some of these features.  Like open ended PVP where you could fight for keeps and guarding them whenever you wanted.  I wouldn't call this a true sandbox game though due to the linear advancements of the expansions.  But it definitly wasn't a full themepark MMO either and maybe that's what, in my opinion made the game so great!

     

    I remember when I was young getting a call from my buddies at 2am saying our keep was being attacked by 2 factions and we had about 80 players show up to counter-attack, it doesn't get more open than that makes me really dislike the games like world of warcraft where you have to wait every 2 hours to take over an area like Tol'Barad or Wintergrasp.  Let's hope these new games coming out like The Secret World and Guild Wars 2 can make it truly feel alive!

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