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Please, old gamers, read this and tell me if im the only one -.-"

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  • RaysheRayshe Member UncommonPosts: 1,279

    im all for the open world content and all that but im gonna get this out of the way.

     

    GRINDING IS BORING. seriously. do you quake with excitement with the thought of killing the same mob for the next 3-6 hours. if your life is so terribly dull that it is appealing to you, seek mental help.

     

    alot of those ideas are good but bringing back grinding is a horrible idea. now im all for high level caps, if you have the quest and dungeon support to continue it, it can be carried by story and plot progression. but if your thinking that the best way to deal with leveling is mob grind again. please go play runescape, get out of here.

     

    I prefer the idea of TSW where you have no level but a good 500 skills + expansion skills + missions and quest types to play with. with that many skills in the game by the time you go all pokemon on em more will be released. 

    Because i can.
    I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
    Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  • FrostWyrmFrostWyrm Member Posts: 1,036


    Originally posted by LadyNoh

    GRINDING IS BORING. seriously. do you quake with excitement with the thought of killing the same mob for the next 3-6 hours. if your life is so terribly dull that it is appealing to you, seek mental help.

     

     


    Originally posted by Shivam

    Originally posted by FrostWyrm


    Originally posted by AdamTM


    Originally posted by Damage99


    Originally posted by AdamTM

    Wrong again.

    Yes, people actually like stuff you dont like.

    A simple concept which is so hard to understand for some people.

     

  • RaysheRayshe Member UncommonPosts: 1,279

    don't get me wrong im a open minded person and all. that just seems like wasteing time. if somone can give me a explanation on how it is fun then please by all means im willing to listen.

     

    i really dont care if its a scientific response or a personal one. im really interested in why you would find something like that fun.

    Because i can.
    I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
    Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  • SpiiderSpiider Member RarePosts: 1,135

    I agree with OP. But OP seems to forget that we ("old gamers") are not gaming world majority any more. Companies make games to appeal to masses and make money and not to satisfy a small group of those who want more than just a brainless grind.

    Sorry brother, but this is how it is. As long as Farmville has more players than all sandbox mmos combined there will be no games you would want to play.

    No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.

  • TalinTalin Member UncommonPosts: 918

    Dungeons should come in two flavors - open and instanced, and you should have to select that you want an instanced dungeon. Let the WOW lovers of the world play with their own five-man experience and have fun. I loved open dungeons in EQ, and had even more fun with them in DAOC. Instances are great for specific purposes, such as completing quest objectives, but they are an extremely anti-social experience. Dungeons should be fraught with mobs, "trains", and other players buffing, helping, and sometimes stealing your spawns. Give players an option - flexible design is always better.

  • RaysheRayshe Member UncommonPosts: 1,279

    i can agree with that. but you can't make one give out better loot than the other or anything like that though. the second you do that then suddenly you have a unbalence.  once A is better than B then B wont be used. same thing in reverse.

    Because i can.
    I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
    Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  • FrostWyrmFrostWyrm Member Posts: 1,036

    Originally posted by LadyNoh

    don't get me wrong im a open minded person and all. that just seems like wasteing time. if somone can give me a explanation on how it is fun then please by all means im willing to listen.

    Value: MMORPGs feel very disposable to me these days. I really dont like hopping from one game to another after reaching max level in one or two short months. To myself, and probably many others, gaming is a hobby, not just something to pick up and put down. I could compare it to being a movie watcher vs being a "film buff".

    Accomplishment: Things that take more time feel more like an accomplishment for me. Forgive me for using so many analogies, its just part of how I like to describe things, but if WoW = buying vegetables at the market, EQ would have been growing your own garden. Yes, it takes longer to reach the same end, but its a much more satisfying experience. While you might argue "games are meant for enjoyment, not to be work", but gardening requires a lot of work, and a great many people actually do enjoy it.

    Social: One of the best things about MMOs, in my opinion, is the opportunity to meet all kinds of people that may be outside your own social and geographical circle. When the game forces you to group up, the odds of making friends, allies, and bonding with fellow gamers increases. With everyone being able to solo to max level, and in such a short amount of time, a lot of opportunities are missed because most players will instinctively take the path of least resistance to advance.

    No Rush: They say getting there is half the fun. As far as MMOs go, I think its a lot more than half. People dont bother to dream if they have everything they could ever want. This is why so many wealthy people become depressed easily. I like having something to look forward to. The proverbial "carrot on a stick" I suppose. I personally don't want to "win the game" when it comes to MMOs. The longer there's something else to do, the better.

  • TaiphozTaiphoz Member UncommonPosts: 353

    I agree, raid's should be open world, and the game should just instagib anyone trying to interfear with a raid in progress, its simple enough once a group attacks a boss they get a debuf that reflects 100% pvp damage back on their attacker, and the boss gets a debuff that says if anyone attacks him thats not part of the raid group hes tagged to, they get insta killed with some fire bolt or something.

    Its a fullproof system.

     

    I would also say that the level cap is fine, its the time taken to get to the level cap thats a joke, I agree for any game the time taken to level cap should be at least 6 months, and upto but no longer than a year, anything less than 6 months means players consume content far to fast get bored easily and end up back in just another grind for dungeon queues.

     

    To be honest I am looking forward to diablo 3, level cap exists and the leveling I suspect will be quick but there are no raids to suck you in, so even at the level cap you will just be continuing to do the same thngs you did while leveling, it wont feel like you have capped out at all.

     

    Bring on Archeage.

  • RaysheRayshe Member UncommonPosts: 1,279

    I can agree with that. serisouly. from what i can tell i was taking grinding out of context. it may be old fashioned of me but when i heard Grind i think about standing in a location and killing the same mob alone over and over and over. Repeats on killing the same boss, different story. Boss fights can change, because the players them selves can try something new or screw up.

     

    i love grouping up. im actually part of a guild from the old Heroes of the Three Kingdoms, PWI. The game recently came back from a Indonesian Publisher and is playable now. i actually followed the guild to a game where i cant understand the language what so ever, but i can talk with my guild and thats enough for me.

     

    sense of accomplishment. well yeah, but i dont think hitting max level should be your accomplishment. as we all know when you hit max level in a MMO the game ISNT OVER. there is still months worth of things to be done. WoW saw this and reacted badly allowing you to BUY your endgame gear. TSW is looking better by having no levels, but a ton of skills and achivements that actually do things. (if you get all the skills in a certan deck you can unlock new cloths.) DCUO did it well by having achivements tied to your skills. so after you hit max level you can continue to buy skills via doing achivements.

     

    Also if anyone says they are Max level in LOTRO i laugh at them and tell them they probubly arent even half way yet since they are just getting to Rohan now.

    Because i can.
    I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
    Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  • CuathonCuathon Member Posts: 2,211

    Originally posted by Starpower

    Originally posted by FrostWyrm

    Considering gamers have been complaining about the "dumbing down" of MMORPGs since it first began happening (Think EQ PoP/Luclin/LDoN), I would say you are mistaken, sir.

    My post pretty much explain why that's the case

    I kinda agree with Starpower. Its similar to the Frat Effect. You have to go through all that bullshit as a pledge because of the way your brain responds to stress by bonding with the other pledges. It would be nice if people could just decide to form strong bonds for no other reason than because they wanted to but it doesn't work that way.

  • AdamTMAdamTM Member Posts: 1,376

    Originally posted by FrostWyrm

    Originally posted by AdamTM


    Originally posted by Damage99


    Originally posted by AdamTM


    its just you

    WRONG.

     

    I'm with you OP.

    Ok fine, its just him and you then.

    Wrong again.

    Yes, people actually like stuff you dont like.

    I love it when people don't get what im posting.

    It makes me feel intelectually superior.

    image
  • FrostWyrmFrostWyrm Member Posts: 1,036

    Originally posted by AdamTM

    Originally posted by FrostWyrm


    Originally posted by AdamTM


    Originally posted by Damage99


    Originally posted by AdamTM


    its just you

    WRONG.

     

    I'm with you OP.

    Ok fine, its just him and you then.

    Wrong again.

    Yes, people actually like stuff you dont like.

    I love it when people don't get what im posting.

    It makes me feel intelectually superior.

    Whatever you have to tell yourself to get you through the day.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432


    Originally posted by xpinkfl0ydx
    <snip>
    todays mmo market is just to much focused on (wont even call them casual gamers)  people who play single player games all day but wanna chat also ...
    ---
    well nice last words,
    today mmos = single play games with chat option
    ------

    I think this is one of the best descriptions of many MMO players today.

    I agree with much of what you wrote. MMOs used to have reasons to stay subbed. Now it is one big lootfest with better loot one of the ONLY reasons to pay the sub fee.

    It's not really that leveling was a "grind" (this word has such a negative connotation), but rather that there were things to DO while leveling. Now, it is ALL about the end game, which to me means, "End of game. Period."

    Games of today just do not have any substance anymore.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432


    Originally posted by Timukas
    And yes, I want bigger worlds and less instances. Technology has become so much better over the last 10-15 years but all MMOs have somehow gone backwards. Maybe it's because of suits that run MMO companies these days instead of guys creating their dream game. I don't know but I get more and more bored of this genre.

    I think the instances came about from kill stealing and camp fights. Players could not get along so companies decided to separate us all. I blame players more than companies for all this instancing...

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • FrostWyrmFrostWyrm Member Posts: 1,036

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     




    Originally posted by Timukas

    And yes, I want bigger worlds and less instances. Technology has become so much better over the last 10-15 years but all MMOs have somehow gone backwards. Maybe it's because of suits that run MMO companies these days instead of guys creating their dream game. I don't know but I get more and more bored of this genre.






    I think the instances came about from kill stealing and camp fights. Players could not get along so companies decided to separate us all. I blame players more than companies for all this instancing...

    Another reason I think the word "epic" has lost its meaning. Epic =/= everyone can achieve it easily.

  • MrMonolitasMrMonolitas Member UncommonPosts: 263

    Lineage 2 to level up 1 level in end game takes months... Its f2p now.  And all you mentioned is there... I mean everything....

  • CuathonCuathon Member Posts: 2,211

    Originally posted by FrostWyrm

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     




    Originally posted by Timukas

    And yes, I want bigger worlds and less instances. Technology has become so much better over the last 10-15 years but all MMOs have somehow gone backwards. Maybe it's because of suits that run MMO companies these days instead of guys creating their dream game. I don't know but I get more and more bored of this genre.







    I think the instances came about from kill stealing and camp fights. Players could not get along so companies decided to separate us all. I blame players more than companies for all this instancing...

    Another reason I think the word "epic" has lost its meaning. Epic =/= everyone can achieve it easily.

    Everybody wants to be great, but if everyone is great, is anyone really great? Damn you paradox!

  • BanaghranBanaghran Member Posts: 869

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     




    Originally posted by Timukas

    And yes, I want bigger worlds and less instances. Technology has become so much better over the last 10-15 years but all MMOs have somehow gone backwards. Maybe it's because of suits that run MMO companies these days instead of guys creating their dream game. I don't know but I get more and more bored of this genre.






    I think the instances came about from kill stealing and camp fights. Players could not get along so companies decided to separate us all. I blame players more than companies for all this instancing...

     

    It also saves the company resources, with instancing you need just 1-2 areas for the players, without it, you need several dungeons of different "quality" (so that the clans camp and fight for only the best ones) with several zones for solo unclanned players.

    As a unwanted side effect, players burn out faster with fewer areas...

  • CuathonCuathon Member Posts: 2,211

    You know how to easily solve that issue? Dynamic content. No more static mob spawns.

  • GajariGajari Member Posts: 984

    The MMO design that the OP talked about has pretty much everything listed that would make me NOT want to play, and NOT have fun.

    While I will agree that instancing should be done away with to a degree, and I would like a castle siege, wars, etc., I absolutely disagree with grinding levels for years... it's more boring than anything instancing or quick leveling has ever done for the genre.

    If you're gonna force someone to grind for eternity to an endless level cap, or even one that takes years, you might as well just remove levels entirely. Maybe have skill points given based on achievements in the game along with gear, but not actually have a number attached to it. That way people who didn't start playing for a year after their friends won't have to ONLY GRIND for a year just to play with them... and when I say grind for a year, I mean possibly years, because that first friend wouldn't have just stopped because of his friend joining.

    And in all honesty, I don't have the time to get to max everything in a month on ANY game at the moment. We don't all have infinite time to play like you do apparently. :P

    I have no problem with certain gear being incredibly hard to obtain. That's for the people who want to be the best of the best, but there should always less exciting, slightly worse gear that is available to those who don't feel like putting in the time and effort on that, and want to do other things.

    Ehh, I'm done. On a final note: MMO's today are NOT single player games with chat options. They're only single player games if you want to solo through everything to max level and then completely stop, or reroll. There are always going to be plenty of opportunities for social interaction, but it's up to the player if they want to participate. Some people are completely anti-social and prefer not to group, while others are grouping all the time. Oddly enough, it's those anti-socials who don't even try that end up complaining about MMO's being "single player with chat options."

  • BanaghranBanaghran Member Posts: 869

    Originally posted by Cuathon

    You know how to easily solve that issue? Dynamic content. No more static mob spawns.

    Takes a toll on variability, if you have specific mobs in specific places you can give them specific atributes so that they are preferred by specific players, randomizing it would just push for homogenization or players hasting around the zone for specific spawns they can kill more easily than the rest.

    Im not saying it cannot work, elaborate what you have in mind :)

    Flame on!

    :)

  • CuathonCuathon Member Posts: 2,211

    Originally posted by Banaghran

    Originally posted by Cuathon

    You know how to easily solve that issue? Dynamic content. No more static mob spawns.

    Takes a toll on variability, if you have specific mobs in specific places you can give them specific atributes so that they are preferred by specific players, randomizing it would just push for homogenization or players hasting around the zone for specific spawns they can kill more easily than the rest.

    Im not saying it cannot work, elaborate what you have in mind :)

    Flame on!

    :)

    You would have to read my 35 threads about it for us to move beyond you citing basic concerns and me saying, oh I already thought of that for hours and hours in a row.

    One specific comment, no haste. Having all players be able to haste and escape from any monster is one of the stupidest inventions of the game industry ever.

  • KenFisherKenFisher Member UncommonPosts: 5,035

    What people now call "grind", used to be called "playing the game".

     

    @OP, no you're not the only one.


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  When I don't understand, I ask.  Such is not intended as criticism.
  • BanaghranBanaghran Member Posts: 869

    Originally posted by Cuathon

    Originally posted by Banaghran


    Originally posted by Cuathon

    You know how to easily solve that issue? Dynamic content. No more static mob spawns.

    Takes a toll on variability, if you have specific mobs in specific places you can give them specific atributes so that they are preferred by specific players, randomizing it would just push for homogenization or players hasting around the zone for specific spawns they can kill more easily than the rest.

    Im not saying it cannot work, elaborate what you have in mind :)

    Flame on!

    :)

    You would have to read my 35 threads about it for us to move beyond you citing basic concerns and me saying, oh I already thought of that for hours and hours in a row.

    One specific comment, no haste. Having all players be able to haste and escape from any monster is one of the stupidest inventions of the game industry ever.

    Without a link its just rude :)

    Anyways, as for haste you very well know that i meant hasting from one spawn to another looking for a specific mob, not hasting from combatting a monster (or do you expect ranged mobs to fire at you from the next zone?), that has its own pitfalls, as muds have tought some of us :)

    Flame on!

    :)

  • Sora2810Sora2810 Member Posts: 567

    OP; there's two type of MMO gamers, those who play to have fun, and those who play to progress. Call it what you feel, but that's how players feel. Most 'casual' players are confused as to why legacy players bash every aspect of games they enjoy. This is because they like spending time, and getting rewards. Progression. They want to grind, even if it meant killing the same mob for half a year, they'll do it. 

    Meaning; Legacy's love spending a lot of time in an MMO before they see anything close to max. 'Casuals' love any aspect of that game that feels fun and gives them an adreniline rush. Really, it's apples to oranges here. It's almost like saying these two groups play extremely different games.

    Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
    Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2

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