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Old developers returning to Vanguard? Should we?

teakboisteakbois Parlin, NJMember Posts: 2,154

It has been confirmed that Vanguard has gotten a boost to their development team.  It has been said that its doubled in size, and rumours are strong that there are devs returning to the game from the past.  Nothing official has been said just who is returning, but I know some people are buzzing about it.

 

Seems like a good time for people to get back into Vanguard, or new people to try it.  Show SoE that the support will be there for it.

 

Im no Vanguard fanboi (in fact Im usually pretty critical about it) but for those tired of the on-rails experience and want to actually *explore* dungeons instead of 'run instances', VG could be a breath of fresh air.  Game's population is low, but if enough people return (and lets face it, many of us are tired of the current crop of choices) that wont matter.

 

So should we make this a return to VG month?  Put aside any ill will (for now) towards SoE and give VG an honest chance for a month.  I'm in, are you?

 

 

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Comments

  • teakboisteakbois Parlin, NJMember Posts: 2,154

    Here is a rough list of the dungeons that a poster on VG's forums made up.

     

    How many can YOU visit this month?

     

    Dungeons     Lvl      Chunk


    • Glade of the Lost      4-7      Ca'ial Brael

    • Gwartok Stronghold    4-8    Bordinar's Cleft

    • Rindol Storehouse     4-8    Tursh Village

    • Rille's Strike 5-6 Bordinar's Cleft

    • Rockspine Lair 5-9 Pankor Zhi

    • Fanx Caverns 6-7 Martok

    • Arks of Harmony 6-10 Jalen's Crossing

    • Ksaravi Hollow 6-11 Khal

    • Bloodhowler Cave 7-11 Dahknarg

    • Library of Mekalia 7-11 Mekalia

    • Coppermend's Delving 8-9 Bordinar's Cleft

    • Arcanium 8-11 Leth Nurae

    • Ra'Jin Stronghold 8-11 Tanvu

    • The Serpent of Sihari 8-11 Lomshir

    • Aeokor Zhi 8-12 Hathor Zhi

    • Gardens of Xia'Liu 8-12 Wildgrowth Forest

    • Riftseeker's Torrent 8-15 Tursh Village

    • Oathbreaker Depths Mine 9-10 Bordinar's Cleft

    • Lair of the Green Witch 9-12 Lomshir Plain

    • Wailing Winds Asylum 10-14 Blighted Lands

    • Cave of the Urugog 10-14 Vault of Heroes

    • Haekemesh's Excavation 10-14 Lomshir Plain

    • Jade Depths 10-14 Veskal's Exchange

    • Azebaj Hive 10-15 Qa Riverbank

    • Orcbane Mine 10-15 Vault of Heroes

    • Vault of Heroes 10-15 Vault of Heroes

    • Caverns of Noztgha 12-16 Temple of Dailuk

    • Karrus Fahrel 12-16 Jharru Flats

    • Khegor's End 12-19 Three Rivers Village

    • Achatlan Lair 14-18 Veskal's Exchange

    • Gulgrethor Fortress 14-19 Sundering Wastelands

    • Stonesmasher Enclave 15-18 Three Rivers Village

    • Ksaravi Gulch 15-20 Ksaravi Gulch

    • Chrysol Mines 16-20 Tauthien Delta

    • Fallen Lyceum 16-22 Kaon's Rush

    • Temple of Dailuk 16-22 Temple of Dailuk

    • Misthaven Mines 17-17 Misthaven Crossing

    • Cairnworth Hall 17-22 Silverlake

    • Tharridon's Scar 18-22 Renton Keep

    • Tomb of Lord Tsang 18-22 Tomb of Lord Tsang

    • Imanjal Sacellum 18-23 Skrilien Point

    • Kalendra's Coven 18-23 Skrilien Point

    • Hilsbury Manor 18-24 Misthaven Crossing

    • Mound of the Zihurr 20-25 Renton Keep

    • Remains of Castle Landsview 20-25 Coastal Graveyard

    • Skawlra Rock 20-26 Skawlra Rock

    • Hold of Intangibility 21-24 Shoreline Ruins

    • Grotto of the Sea Hags 21-26 Hag's Coastline

    • Imanjal Tower 22-25 Skrilien Point

    • Infineum Plateau 22-25 Coterie Infineum Sanctuary

    • Ruins of Trengal Keep 22-30 Ruins of Trengal Keep

    • Ssre'vessk 23-27 Strand of the Ancients

    • Coterie Infineum Sanctuary 25-30 Coterie Infineum Sanctuary

    • Falgarholm 26-30 Falgarholm

    • Volaran Towers 29-32 River Valley

    • Velkatik's Hollow 29-34 Qa Riverbank

    • Fallen Temple of Vol Tuniel 30-35 Ruins of Vol Tuniel

    • Dark Eye Hold 30-36 Northern Highlands

    • Dargun's Tomb 30-44 Northern Highlands

    • Red Sparrow Depths 31-32 Southwatch

    • Zossyr Hakrel 31-34 Zossyr Hakrel

    • Karrus Alljur 34-36 Zossyr Hakrel

    • Karrus Ennir 34-36 Zossyr Hakrel

    • River Palace 34-41 River Palace

    • Spire of the Decakin 35-40 Spires Keep

    • Thelaseen 35-40 Thelaseen

    • Karrus Hakrel 36-41 Zossyr Hakrel

    • Lair of the Vi'Rak 37-41 Ruins of Vol Tuniel

    • Island of Madness - Large 38-44 Stranglewater Shore

    • Island of Madness - Small 38-44 Islands of Madness

    • Vault of the Hidden 38-48 Jathred's Twist

    • Greystone 39-44 Beranid Hills

    • Rakshasa Citadel 39-45 Sunset Pointe

    • Trickster's Haven 40-45 Razad

    • Rahz Inkur 43-50 Razad

    • Xennumet 44-50 Mind's Crown

    • Mnalus Lair 45-50 Swamps of Rumug

    • Nusibe Necropolis 45-50 Nusibe Necropolis

    • Temple of Tehatamani 45-50 Temple of Tehatamani

    • Old Targanor 45-50 Old Targanor

    • Gorgalok 45-50 Vsurog Moor

    • Ichtakhta 45-50 Ichtakhta

    • Flordiel 45-50 Flordiel

    • Magi Hold 50-55 Magi Hold

    • Ancient Port Warehouse 50-53 Innovus

    • Vi'rak Liar 53-55 Ruins of Vol Tuniel

    • Bridge of Destiny 53-55

    • Island of Garuzamut 53-55

     

  • InFlamestwoInFlamestwo HindMember Posts: 662

    I wont support them any further until they give us what the players want.

     

    I played it for 1 year 4 years ago.

    image

  • kevjardskevjards carlisleMember Posts: 1,452 Uncommon

    Originally posted by teakbois

    Here is a rough list of the dungeons that a poster on VG's forums made up.
     
    How many can YOU visit this month?
     
    Dungeons     Lvl      Chunk


    Glade of the Lost      4-7      Ca'ial Brael

    Gwartok Stronghold    4-8    Bordinar's Cleft

    Rindol Storehouse     4-8    Tursh Village

    Rille's Strike 5-6 Bordinar's Cleft

    Rockspine Lair 5-9 Pankor Zhi

    Fanx Caverns 6-7 Martok

    Arks of Harmony 6-10 Jalen's Crossing

    Ksaravi Hollow 6-11 Khal

    Bloodhowler Cave 7-11 Dahknarg

    Library of Mekalia 7-11 Mekalia

    Coppermend's Delving 8-9 Bordinar's Cleft

    Arcanium 8-11 Leth Nurae

    Ra'Jin Stronghold 8-11 Tanvu

    The Serpent of Sihari 8-11 Lomshir

    Aeokor Zhi 8-12 Hathor Zhi

    Gardens of Xia'Liu 8-12 Wildgrowth Forest

    Riftseeker's Torrent 8-15 Tursh Village

    Oathbreaker Depths Mine 9-10 Bordinar's Cleft

    Lair of the Green Witch 9-12 Lomshir Plain

    Wailing Winds Asylum 10-14 Blighted Lands

    Cave of the Urugog 10-14 Vault of Heroes

    Haekemesh's Excavation 10-14 Lomshir Plain

    Jade Depths 10-14 Veskal's Exchange

    Azebaj Hive 10-15 Qa Riverbank

    Orcbane Mine 10-15 Vault of Heroes

    Vault of Heroes 10-15 Vault of Heroes

    Caverns of Noztgha 12-16 Temple of Dailuk

    Karrus Fahrel 12-16 Jharru Flats

    Khegor's End 12-19 Three Rivers Village

    Achatlan Lair 14-18 Veskal's Exchange

    Gulgrethor Fortress 14-19 Sundering Wastelands

    Stonesmasher Enclave 15-18 Three Rivers Village

    Ksaravi Gulch 15-20 Ksaravi Gulch

    Chrysol Mines 16-20 Tauthien Delta

    Fallen Lyceum 16-22 Kaon's Rush

    Temple of Dailuk 16-22 Temple of Dailuk

    Misthaven Mines 17-17 Misthaven Crossing

    Cairnworth Hall 17-22 Silverlake

    Tharridon's Scar 18-22 Renton Keep

    Tomb of Lord Tsang 18-22 Tomb of Lord Tsang

    Imanjal Sacellum 18-23 Skrilien Point

    Kalendra's Coven 18-23 Skrilien Point

    Hilsbury Manor 18-24 Misthaven Crossing

    Mound of the Zihurr 20-25 Renton Keep

    Remains of Castle Landsview 20-25 Coastal Graveyard

    Skawlra Rock 20-26 Skawlra Rock

    Hold of Intangibility 21-24 Shoreline Ruins

    Grotto of the Sea Hags 21-26 Hag's Coastline

    Imanjal Tower 22-25 Skrilien Point

    Infineum Plateau 22-25 Coterie Infineum Sanctuary

    Ruins of Trengal Keep 22-30 Ruins of Trengal Keep

    Ssre'vessk 23-27 Strand of the Ancients

    Coterie Infineum Sanctuary 25-30 Coterie Infineum Sanctuary

    Falgarholm 26-30 Falgarholm

    Volaran Towers 29-32 River Valley

    Velkatik's Hollow 29-34 Qa Riverbank

    Fallen Temple of Vol Tuniel 30-35 Ruins of Vol Tuniel

    Dark Eye Hold 30-36 Northern Highlands

    Dargun's Tomb 30-44 Northern Highlands

    Red Sparrow Depths 31-32 Southwatch

    Zossyr Hakrel 31-34 Zossyr Hakrel

    Karrus Alljur 34-36 Zossyr Hakrel

    Karrus Ennir 34-36 Zossyr Hakrel

    River Palace 34-41 River Palace

    Spire of the Decakin 35-40 Spires Keep

    Thelaseen 35-40 Thelaseen

    Karrus Hakrel 36-41 Zossyr Hakrel

    Lair of the Vi'Rak 37-41 Ruins of Vol Tuniel

    Island of Madness - Large 38-44 Stranglewater Shore

    Island of Madness - Small 38-44 Islands of Madness

    Vault of the Hidden 38-48 Jathred's Twist

    Greystone 39-44 Beranid Hills

    Rakshasa Citadel 39-45 Sunset Pointe

    Trickster's Haven 40-45 Razad

    Rahz Inkur 43-50 Razad

    Xennumet 44-50 Mind's Crown

    Mnalus Lair 45-50 Swamps of Rumug

    Nusibe Necropolis 45-50 Nusibe Necropolis

    Temple of Tehatamani 45-50 Temple of Tehatamani

    Old Targanor 45-50 Old Targanor

    Gorgalok 45-50 Vsurog Moor

    Ichtakhta 45-50 Ichtakhta

    Flordiel 45-50 Flordiel

    Magi Hold 50-55 Magi Hold

    Ancient Port Warehouse 50-53 Innovus

    Vi'rak Liar 53-55 Ruins of Vol Tuniel

    Bridge of Destiny 53-55

    Island of Garuzamut 53-55

     

    makes you laugh does'nt it..look at all the dungeons..wipes the floor with most mmo's in that regard..and this aint had proper content added for years..enough to keep you goin for years with all the other stuff included.just a class above every other mmo' just a shame it had no support from sony since they took over apart from the beginning to get it to a playable stage.

  • teakboisteakbois Parlin, NJMember Posts: 2,154

    Originally posted by InFlamestwo

    I wont support them any further until they give us what the players want.
     
    I played it for 1 year 4 years ago.

    Isnt increasing the development team what the players want?  Bringing back people that worked on the game prior?  

  • teakboisteakbois Parlin, NJMember Posts: 2,154

    Originally posted by kevjards

     just a shame it had no support from sony since they took over apart from the beginning to get it to a playable stage.

    They did work on it for a good 18 months or so, at that point there were less than 50k players though.  Can you *really* blame them for trying to stop the financial bleeding Vanguard was giving them?

     

    It looks like they are willing to lose some money again in hopes to turn VG around a little.  

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Worcester, MAMember Posts: 2,898

    I will not be. SoE or whoever has managed the game has been slowly removing the interesting features of the game. The only things they've added are just more quest areas and more loot. I don't want more content, there's more content in the game than I could ever complete in a lifetime. I want them to go back and start to try to add in those unique features that were in the game in beta, or promised to come sometime down the line, like a guild PvP system or naval combat.

    Add features, not busy  filler quests. Bring back interesting mechanics. Making Vanguard more and more like WoW isn't going to help it, it's just going to drive the real fan base away.

     

    I want Sigil back. SoE tried as hard as they could to bury this game, so they wouldn't lose EQ subs to it. Now it's too late.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAMember Posts: 20,752 Epic

    I'm a fan of Vanguard and have a subscription but the problem is that any players who are comign back or new players have to enter with an open mind.

    The game has come a lnog way but it still is buggy, the jumping and swimming is a bit odd, there are still issues. Completely playable but when you compare it to more modern games as far as polish, players will complain.

    Unless one is ready to commit to the game "as is" as well as be accepting of a small but good community.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAMember Posts: 20,752 Epic

    Originally posted by Garvon3

    I want Sigil back. SoE tried as hard as they could to bury this game, so they wouldn't lose EQ subs to it. Now it's too late.

    Nah, If the wanted to bury it then they wouldn't have to release it or have any developers on it.

    All they would have had to do was buy it from sigil and then never release it.

  • Mari2kMari2k rzhz, MNMember Posts: 371

    To to the homepage of vanguard and look at updates, last was at 


     - December 9, 2009

     


    This game is dead...

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Worcester, MAMember Posts: 2,898

    Originally posted by Sovrath


    Originally posted by Garvon3


    I want Sigil back. SoE tried as hard as they could to bury this game, so they wouldn't lose EQ subs to it. Now it's too late.

    Nah, If the wanted to bury it then they wouldn't have to release it or have any developers on it.

    All they would have had to do was buy it from sigil and then never release it.

    Then someone else could have come along and nabbed it from them. Instead, they pushed it out 8 months early then cut pretty much all support.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAMember Posts: 20,752 Epic

    Originally posted by Garvon3


    Originally posted by Sovrath



    Originally posted by Garvon3


    I want Sigil back. SoE tried as hard as they could to bury this game, so they wouldn't lose EQ subs to it. Now it's too late.

    Nah, If the wanted to bury it then they wouldn't have to release it or have any developers on it.

    All they would have had to do was buy it from sigil and then never release it.

    Then someone else could have come along and nabbed it from them. Instead, they pushed it out 8 months early then cut pretty much all support.

    No, I mean they really would have gotten control over it then just shut it down. It's not unheard of for businesses to aqcquire companies, take the assets and then dismantle the companies.

    Heck, my company just did that very thing!

  • SkuzSkuz WorcesterMember Posts: 1,014 Uncommon

    Smedley has tweeted that there will be news of a Free to Play system in this game, now obviously the work it entails to convert to a free to play title can be very extensive & the wide-open nature of Vanguard will mean it will take much more work than say a more segmented or instanced game such as DDO was.

    The developers moving back to the title, from wherever, could be a temporary thing, to prep the game for F2P & to do the groundwork for future development should the move to F2P prove a success, whereupon further investment in development would become finacially rewarding for SoE & they'd swing it into gear.

    With EverQuest now moving to F2P in March I can see Vanguard following suit behind it, I wouldn't expect further details to emerge until EverQuest's F2P transition has been completed though.

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Worcester, MAMember Posts: 2,898

    Originally posted by Skuz

    Smedley has tweeted that there will be news of a Free to Play system in this game, now obviously the work it entails to convert to a free to play title can be very extensive & the wide-open nature of Vanguard will mean it will take much more work than say a more segmented or instanced game such as DDO was.
    The developers moving back to the title, from wherever, could be a temporary thing, to prep the game for F2P & to do the groundwork for future development should the move to F2P prove a success, whereupon further investment in development would become finacially rewarding for SoE & they'd swing it into gear.
    With EverQuest now moving to F2P in March I can see Vanguard following suit behind it, I wouldn't expect further details to emerge until EverQuest's F2P transition has been completed though.

    So long as they never add instancing to the game it might work. The problem with FTP is that it works by breaking the community up, which is the opposite of what an MMO is supposed to do.

  • cheyanecheyane EarthMember Posts: 3,826 Rare

    You know Sovrath it would have been better for SOE to have done exactly that , they have been constantly painted as the company that sunk Vanguard when they spent time ,money and effort trying to fix the mess it was. Indeed stripping it would at least have warranted the hate they got anyway.

    image
  • WoopinWoopin LeedsMember Posts: 1,007 Uncommon

    Wait so they now have 0 Developers 0x2=0 :o

     

    Last I heard they had none on it they was just using other devs off other projects for small things fixing.

    image

  • MykellMykell MackayMember Posts: 645 Uncommon

    Originally posted by teakbois

    It has been confirmed that Vanguard has gotten a boost to their development team.  It has been said that its doubled in size.

    So they now have 2 people working on it?

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Worcester, MAMember Posts: 2,898

    Originally posted by cheyane

    You know Sovrath it would have been better for SOE to have done exactly that , they have been constantly painted as the company that sunk Vanguard when they spent time ,money and effort trying to fix the mess it was. Indeed stripping it would at least have warranted the hate they got anyway.

    The only effort SOE put into Vanguard was removing the interesting bits and adding in WoW features, and spending the bulk of their budget on a free trial island, that made a huge chunk of the game world obsolete.

  • AG-VukAG-Vuk Phoenix, AZMember Posts: 823 Uncommon

    Originally posted by Garvon3


    Originally posted by Skuz

     

    So long as they never add instancing to the game it might work. The problem with FTP is that it works by breaking the community up, which is the opposite of what an MMO is supposed to do.

     They have only two promient current instanced area , APW and the PoA. It's a major raid area for lvl 50+  toons.  I can forsee this being installed in a few more areas . They are still fun areas. Basically instances within shards. They still have the overland bosses that are a lot of fun , 24 man raids that require group co-ordination .

    image
  • GreenHellGreenHell ludlow, MAMember Posts: 1,323 Uncommon

    It's pretty obvious they are just giving VG a little love with the hopes that everyone does not leave to one of the many games that are launching. Once SOE has something new they want to push VG will be put back on the shelf. This is all smoke and mirrors in order to milk the few people that are still left in VG. The game does not have a future.

  • uohaloranuohaloran ., GAMember Posts: 811

    Originally posted by Garvon3


    Originally posted by Skuz


    Smedley has tweeted that there will be news of a Free to Play system in this game, now obviously the work it entails to convert to a free to play title can be very extensive & the wide-open nature of Vanguard will mean it will take much more work than say a more segmented or instanced game such as DDO was.
    The developers moving back to the title, from wherever, could be a temporary thing, to prep the game for F2P & to do the groundwork for future development should the move to F2P prove a success, whereupon further investment in development would become finacially rewarding for SoE & they'd swing it into gear.
    With EverQuest now moving to F2P in March I can see Vanguard following suit behind it, I wouldn't expect further details to emerge until EverQuest's F2P transition has been completed though.

    So long as they never add instancing to the game it might work. The problem with FTP is that it works by breaking the community up, which is the opposite of what an MMO is supposed to do.

    I don't understand?  What part of F2P breaks up the community?

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAMember Posts: 20,752 Epic

    Originally posted by uohaloran


    Originally posted by Garvon3



    Originally posted by Skuz


    Smedley has tweeted that there will be news of a Free to Play system in this game, now obviously the work it entails to convert to a free to play title can be very extensive & the wide-open nature of Vanguard will mean it will take much more work than say a more segmented or instanced game such as DDO was.
    The developers moving back to the title, from wherever, could be a temporary thing, to prep the game for F2P & to do the groundwork for future development should the move to F2P prove a success, whereupon further investment in development would become finacially rewarding for SoE & they'd swing it into gear.
    With EverQuest now moving to F2P in March I can see Vanguard following suit behind it, I wouldn't expect further details to emerge until EverQuest's F2P transition has been completed though.

    So long as they never add instancing to the game it might work. The problem with FTP is that it works by breaking the community up, which is the opposite of what an MMO is supposed to do.

    I don't understand?  What part of F2P breaks up the community?

    I think his concern is about selling off quest areas or creating quest packs where, if a player doesn't have that quest area they can't do it.

    My thought is that if Vangaurd were to become f2p it would be more about selling cosmetic items, pets, special emotes or mounts, etc.

     

  • TenebrosoTenebroso Fresno, CAMember Posts: 262
    Sure, let's go back to Vanguard. We all need some alone time, sometimes.
  • William12William12 Saint paul, MNMember Posts: 680

    Pretty sure this is a way to get bug fixes and maybe a content update before pushing it to F2P which would be a great thing for the game.

  • teakboisteakbois Parlin, NJMember Posts: 2,154

    There is a new raid zone on the test server, so they have added new content.

     

    And they did plenty of stuff that is in the psirit of vanguard, like fleshing out diplomacy and adding galleons.

     

    Extra love for a push to f2p makes sense, but they wouldnt just pull the people when the switch happens, they need new content to keep people interested.

     

    I dont buy the 'smoke and mrrors show so people dont jump ship' theory, because vanguard doesnt have many potential jumpers, certainly not enough to make any impact on the bottom line.

  • teakboisteakbois Parlin, NJMember Posts: 2,154

    Originally posted by Sovrath
    I think his concern is about selling off quest areas or creating quest packs where, if a player doesn't have that quest area they can't do it.
    My thought is that if Vangaurd were to become f2p it would be more about selling cosmetic items, pets, special emotes or mounts, etc.
     

    SoE's f2p model doesnt restrict content, outside of the latest expansion pack, which of course VG doesnt have.  They restrict gear so that players an only wear group level drops or crafted (gear that only raiders would ever truly need).  Which also wouldnt work in VG, because you could just use crafted gear.

     

    Outside of race and class restrictions, Im not sure what SoE could really do wth a f2p model that would actually bring in revenue.

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