Not wanting to derail the thread, but those "gathering pies in Hobbiton" type quests in LOTRO were inspired. One of the things that most MMOs lack is any sense of place, but LOTRO absolutely nailed it with the Shire and it's down to those kinds of quests. MMOs need more of those, even if they're only optional fluff.
I'm not knocking them really. Just was mainly referring to those mentioning story were probably referring to the greater overall story being told in that game not those types of things. Especially when rolling alts.
On a side note, I actually agree with your quote I included. That is part of the problem with many of these games far as I'm concerned.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Voice and Cutscene for Class Storyline quest line YES good idea. A splendid idea for the main quest line and I do consider it inovative and very enjoyable, however...
For Side Quests/Missions? Too much of a good thing is a bad thing = waste of money that should have been spent on making sure many simple mistakes didn't make it to release:
Better Open world PvP *for PVP Servers* (PvP Players WANT PvP, green?)...
Better protections against non-consensual PvP *for PVE Servers* (PvE Players HATE PvP, super green?)...
Larger Worlds with more "Life"... ( too many MMO World shortcomings to list )
The squashing of a gadzillion bugs still running around in game... (see any of hundred list this site alone)
A Crafting system that isn't a waste of Development Money... (only Biochem really useful at 50? If you're going to do a crafting system, do it so it's not a waste of time for a Player! )
I could go on but I will stop there. I know SWTOR is brand new but this isn't 1999 when MMOs were still new. I expect more because there ARE industry standards, even if they are unwritten and unenforced. As a consumer I expect more now than I did in 1999 from MMOs.
I actually Love SWTOR, well most of it anyways, but I will not play it / subscribe to it until some of these issues are resolved... so Yes I believe Bioware and EA wasted Millions of Dollars with the all the Voice acting and cutscenes.
At least the Voice Actor/Actresses made good money (I hope). That's a good thing.
edit: One last thing I wanted to include... everytime the NPC would "ask" for my response I had most of the time three choices of how to respond to the quest NPC... and at least HALF of the time the choices Bioware gave me I would not have wanted...
e.g.: In Coruscant, that Senate Page that is an Empire lacky... my response would have preferably been...
First of all - if you're like me and you've always thought that wasting most of the game's budget on voice was a terrible idea, then you need not reply, i already know your opinion
As if that will stop them from posting it anyway.
What I'm curious about is the updated opinions of the folks that - prior to the game's launch - thought it was going to be a game-changer and the greatest thing since leia's slave outfit.
I didn't think it would be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it was definetly a game changer for me. It certainle sounded more interesting than getting a bunch of guys together to slaughter bols and pickets, which is what you did in that "other" Star Wars MMO that failed.
I'm seeing more and more people - people who're avid fans of the game - admit that really, having every single dialogue voiced gets to be a bit of a drag (at best) or downright annoying (at worst).
To each his own. I like it.
So, to you that were excited the voicing, are you still excited about it? Are you looking forward to LISTENING to 200 more "kill 10 rats" quests with generic dialogue that is fully voiced? Or would you rather see the dialogue scaled back to the more important & interesting areas of the game, parts that actually have interesting story and characters whose names you might actually remember?
The main quests are not the typical "kill 10 rats" rubbish that you see in WOW and most mmos. The only time that garbage comes up is in the "bonus quests" pop ups that happen when you start killing things. That's a nice reminder that once upon a time, that was ALL questing was about. Go to a NPC click on it, and read walls of text. The level grind was so boring and monotonous. Now many MMOers think that this process doesn't matter and it's all about the end game. I on the other hand refuse to pay a monthly sub for a boring leveling grind. After playing this game and experiencing NPCs with voice and emotions along with a choice of how my character can interact with them, no other MMO will ever see my money again unless it has this feature in it. You can keep your day/night cycles. housing and swimming.
The main quests are not the typical "kill 10 rats" rubbish that you see in WOW and most mmos. The only time that garbage comes up is in the "bonus quests" pop ups that happen when you start killing things. That's a nice reminder that once upon a time, that was ALL questing was about. Go to a NPC click on it, and read walls of text. The level grind was so boring and monotonous. Now many MMOers think that this process doesn't matter and it's all about the end game. I on the other hand refuse to pay a monthly sub for a boring leveling grind. After playing this game and experiencing NPCs with voice and emotions along with a choice of how my character can interact with them, no other MMO will ever see my money again unless it has this feature in it. You can keep your day/night cycles. housing and swimming.
Lol...I just completed a class quest that involved me powering down four generators. The bonus was to kill 10 mobs. Nine of which that without stealth were unavoidable so hey...why not kill the tenth.
I mean if you wanna say they add more depth to the reasoning for doing things so be it but to say this game doesn't use the "kill 10 rats" concept in the majority of its content is simply silly. The only difference in this game is it glosses it over with cinematics and story. Whether you find that valuable or works to allow you to accept the same concepts all these themepark oriented games have is up to the player.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I unsubbed. Gong to give it 6 months and try again if it's still alive. I'll be playing Eve.
I thought you loved the game till death? Or I might be thinking of someone else.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I unsubbed. Gong to give it 6 months and try again if it's still alive. I'll be playing Eve.
I thought you loved the game till death? Or I might be thinking of someone else.
I love the concept. The story. But it just isn't the MMO I thought it would be. I'm not saying it's bad. It needs alot of work. That's why i'm coming back in 6 months.
Im playing swtor and i enjoy most of it, but voice is wasted time and money for an mmorpg, voiced stuff=single player games, hese games require time and money invested elsewere
The game is silent as a mute-film from the early 1900's except for the occasional "They call me Soa!"
But yeah, i think it would be best to just put the fully voiced "cinematics" only on important, intriguing and meaningful quests and quest arcs, not the hundreds of fedex / kill rats quests.
I unsubbed. Gong to give it 6 months and try again if it's still alive. I'll be playing Eve.
I thought you loved the game till death? Or I might be thinking of someone else.
I love the concept. The story. But it just isn't the MMO I thought it would be. I'm not saying it's bad. It needs alot of work. That's why i'm coming back in 6 months.
Oh ok that's understandable.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
The game is silent as a mute-film from the early 1900's except for the occasional "They call me Soa!"
But yeah, i think it would be best to just put the fully voiced "cinematics" only on important, intriguing and meaningful quests and quest arcs, not the hundreds of fedex / kill rats quests.
I agree. And I really didn't like how fast it took to level.
Yes, Yes, and more Yes - the Voice over is what makes this game so darn fun to play.
I was on the fence when I heard they were going this route, but once I saw it in action, I was blown away! I REALLY like it.
Voice in my MMORPG, is like the diffrence between a Silent Movie, and when Actors could speak - it REALLY makes the game. I doubt that I will EVER go back to playing an MMO that doesn't have Voice Over work done.
that said, I DO like the fact that I have the option to 'space bar' through a dialog that I have seen before. Say a Flash point that I am running over and over again with a group, for loot or XP. it's Great to be able to 'skip' the dialog, but to answer your question, I DO indeed think that Voice over is the best thing since sliced bread.
First of all - if you're like me and you've always thought that wasting most of the game's budget on voice was a terrible idea, then you need not reply, i already know your opinion
What I'm curious about is the updated opinions of the folks that - prior to the game's launch - thought it was going to be a game-changer and the greatest thing since leia's slave outfit.
I'm seeing more and more people - people who're avid fans of the game - admit that really, having every single dialogue voiced gets to be a bit of a drag (at best) or downright annoying (at worst).
So, to you that were excited the voicing, are you still excited about it? Are you looking forward to LISTENING to 200 more "kill 10 rats" quests with generic dialogue that is fully voiced? Or would you rather see the dialogue scaled back to the more important & interesting areas of the game, parts that actually have interesting story and characters whose names you might actually remember?
Well I enjoyed the less frequent Voice Overs (all starter area quests & all destiny quests + some Key quests) in Age of Conan and I enjoyed the VO's in SWTOR as well even though I am no longer playing the game.
I think Voice overs add a lot to player Immersion in the game world.
Definitely not. I respect the fact some people love the idea of being told a story through cutscenes, but I personally cannot stand it. I prefer quest text.
It's one of the best parts of the game, but it's not JUST the voice, having someone read you the quest text is equally boring. It's the whole package, voice, animated cutscene, companion one liners during conversations and my favorite feature - mutli-player implementation of conversations. I was very wary before launch about how conversations would work with multiple people but the roll system is great because you don't know exactly how an encounter is going to go. I play with friends who always just used the "whatever" button, as they called it, to just accept the quest without reading it. They all love participating in the conversations now.
Also, I have to shake my head at the people who say they should only have done this for the class quests and flashpoints. Does no one remember the uproar when Age of Conan was released and people realized that after the starting area voice acting only happened during a few "epic" quests and your storyline? People screamed rip-off and called Funcom cheap.
If you get bored with the cutscenes for regular quests you can spacebar through them, personally I'm very thankful they are there and I never skip them.
Have a few voice actors say a few lines and reuse those lines among many npc's..
It would have freed up development costs so they could Put some fun gameplay feature's in.
Fixed that for you but it's also very unlikely. People don't understand how development generally works.
You don't go "Ok folks we have 200 million to spend, how do we divide it up?".
What happens is you go "Ok, this is the game that we want to make, now how much would that cost? Ok, let's get the budget approved."
The number crunchers figure out if spending 50 million dollars on voice (I'm just throwing a random number out there) is worth it or not. If they don't think so they don't then let you spend an extra 50 million on something else.
Also, there is a certain point where adding more people to the job doesn't make it go any faster, in fact having too many programmers can actually make your developement slower.
I want my computer games to be more interactive than reading a text box.
not to be nitpicky, but you do realize that in TOR you're still reading a text box with your dialogue choices for every single quest. So instead of reading what the NPC was saying, you're reading what you're saying.
It's not actually reading a wall of text when it takes one second each time just to peek at what you want to say back, you know, it's quite handy to get even a slight idea of what you are saying back. Or just pick 1 for the nice answer, 2 for the on the fence or 3 for the not so nice answer, it's most of the time in that order, assuming you dont want to read absolutely any written line at all, but I dont think that's what he ment.
The 100% voice was a brilliant move but one that was even better is the whole thing.
Animation, expression, it really comes together and in terms of presentation it set the bar. Whether any MMOs can match it is an open question and as far as I can tell, that bar will be there for a long time cause no MMO coming out is even close.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Fixed that for you but it's also very unlikely. People don't understand how development generally works.
You don't go "Ok folks we have 200 million to spend, how do we divide it up?".
What happens is you go "Ok, this is the game that we want to make, now how much would that cost? Ok, let's get the budget approved."
The number crunchers figure out if spending 50 million dollars on voice (I'm just throwing a random number out there) is worth it or not. If they don't think so they don't then let you spend an extra 50 million on something else.
Also, there is a certain point where adding more people to the job doesn't make it go any faster, in fact having too many programmers can actually make your developement slower.
Thank you!
I constantly see this "if they didn't spend money on x they would have spent it on y. It just doesnt' work that way. At all.
Every component of a project, whether it's a game or a building or "whatever" gets factored into a budget and then the budget is set.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Comments
I'm not knocking them really. Just was mainly referring to those mentioning story were probably referring to the greater overall story being told in that game not those types of things. Especially when rolling alts.
On a side note, I actually agree with your quote I included. That is part of the problem with many of these games far as I'm concerned.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
"Now that you've played it, do you still think 100% voice is a great idea?"
No.
Voice and Cutscene for Class Storyline quest line YES good idea. A splendid idea for the main quest line and I do consider it inovative and very enjoyable, however...
For Side Quests/Missions? Too much of a good thing is a bad thing = waste of money that should have been spent on making sure many simple mistakes didn't make it to release:
Better Open world PvP *for PVP Servers* (PvP Players WANT PvP, green?)...
Better protections against non-consensual PvP *for PVE Servers* (PvE Players HATE PvP, super green?)...
Larger Worlds with more "Life"... ( too many MMO World shortcomings to list )
The squashing of a gadzillion bugs still running around in game... (see any of hundred list this site alone)
A Crafting system that isn't a waste of Development Money... (only Biochem really useful at 50? If you're going to do a crafting system, do it so it's not a waste of time for a Player! )
I could go on but I will stop there. I know SWTOR is brand new but this isn't 1999 when MMOs were still new. I expect more because there ARE industry standards, even if they are unwritten and unenforced. As a consumer I expect more now than I did in 1999 from MMOs.
I actually Love SWTOR, well most of it anyways, but I will not play it / subscribe to it until some of these issues are resolved... so Yes I believe Bioware and EA wasted Millions of Dollars with the all the Voice acting and cutscenes.
At least the Voice Actor/Actresses made good money (I hope). That's a good thing.
edit: One last thing I wanted to include... everytime the NPC would "ask" for my response I had most of the time three choices of how to respond to the quest NPC... and at least HALF of the time the choices Bioware gave me I would not have wanted...
e.g.: In Coruscant, that Senate Page that is an Empire lacky... my response would have preferably been...
"[Attack] Gut him like the slimy worm he is."
Can't have everything.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
It doesn't have 100% voice. It has a few npcs that have a voice and lots that just atand there like a statue.
I would have have the main quest voiced and a world that felt alive (even if the side quests were texted).
Lol...I just completed a class quest that involved me powering down four generators. The bonus was to kill 10 mobs. Nine of which that without stealth were unavoidable so hey...why not kill the tenth.
I mean if you wanna say they add more depth to the reasoning for doing things so be it but to say this game doesn't use the "kill 10 rats" concept in the majority of its content is simply silly. The only difference in this game is it glosses it over with cinematics and story. Whether you find that valuable or works to allow you to accept the same concepts all these themepark oriented games have is up to the player.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
They should of did the skyrim approach:
Have a few voice actors say a few lines and reuse those lines among many npc's..
It would of freed up development costs so they could Put some fun gameplay feature's in.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
I unsubbed. Gong to give it 6 months and try again if it's still alive. I'll be playing Eve.
I thought you loved the game till death? Or I might be thinking of someone else.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I love the concept. The story. But it just isn't the MMO I thought it would be. I'm not saying it's bad. It needs alot of work. That's why i'm coming back in 6 months.
Im playing swtor and i enjoy most of it, but voice is wasted time and money for an mmorpg, voiced stuff=single player games, hese games require time and money invested elsewere
The game is silent as a mute-film from the early 1900's except for the occasional "They call me Soa!"
But yeah, i think it would be best to just put the fully voiced "cinematics" only on important, intriguing and meaningful quests and quest arcs, not the hundreds of fedex / kill rats quests.
Oh ok that's understandable.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I agree. And I really didn't like how fast it took to level.
Yes, Yes, and more Yes - the Voice over is what makes this game so darn fun to play.
I was on the fence when I heard they were going this route, but once I saw it in action, I was blown away! I REALLY like it.
Voice in my MMORPG, is like the diffrence between a Silent Movie, and when Actors could speak - it REALLY makes the game. I doubt that I will EVER go back to playing an MMO that doesn't have Voice Over work done.
that said, I DO like the fact that I have the option to 'space bar' through a dialog that I have seen before. Say a Flash point that I am running over and over again with a group, for loot or XP. it's Great to be able to 'skip' the dialog, but to answer your question, I DO indeed think that Voice over is the best thing since sliced bread.
Put me on the positive side of this poll please!
Thank you,
zWolf -out.
Well I enjoyed the less frequent Voice Overs (all starter area quests & all destiny quests + some Key quests) in Age of Conan and I enjoyed the VO's in SWTOR as well even though I am no longer playing the game.
I think Voice overs add a lot to player Immersion in the game world.
In a word, yes.
QFT
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
Definitely not. I respect the fact some people love the idea of being told a story through cutscenes, but I personally cannot stand it. I prefer quest text.
It's one of the best parts of the game, but it's not JUST the voice, having someone read you the quest text is equally boring. It's the whole package, voice, animated cutscene, companion one liners during conversations and my favorite feature - mutli-player implementation of conversations. I was very wary before launch about how conversations would work with multiple people but the roll system is great because you don't know exactly how an encounter is going to go. I play with friends who always just used the "whatever" button, as they called it, to just accept the quest without reading it. They all love participating in the conversations now.
Also, I have to shake my head at the people who say they should only have done this for the class quests and flashpoints. Does no one remember the uproar when Age of Conan was released and people realized that after the starting area voice acting only happened during a few "epic" quests and your storyline? People screamed rip-off and called Funcom cheap.
If you get bored with the cutscenes for regular quests you can spacebar through them, personally I'm very thankful they are there and I never skip them.
Fixed that for you but it's also very unlikely. People don't understand how development generally works.
You don't go "Ok folks we have 200 million to spend, how do we divide it up?".
What happens is you go "Ok, this is the game that we want to make, now how much would that cost? Ok, let's get the budget approved."
The number crunchers figure out if spending 50 million dollars on voice (I'm just throwing a random number out there) is worth it or not. If they don't think so they don't then let you spend an extra 50 million on something else.
Also, there is a certain point where adding more people to the job doesn't make it go any faster, in fact having too many programmers can actually make your developement slower.
It's not actually reading a wall of text when it takes one second each time just to peek at what you want to say back, you know, it's quite handy to get even a slight idea of what you are saying back. Or just pick 1 for the nice answer, 2 for the on the fence or 3 for the not so nice answer, it's most of the time in that order, assuming you dont want to read absolutely any written line at all, but I dont think that's what he ment.
The 100% voice was a brilliant move but one that was even better is the whole thing.
Animation, expression, it really comes together and in terms of presentation it set the bar. Whether any MMOs can match it is an open question and as far as I can tell, that bar will be there for a long time cause no MMO coming out is even close.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Voice Over, cutscenes, good stories really make the difference in SWTOR. I like it, a lot.
QFT
Thank you!
I constantly see this "if they didn't spend money on x they would have spent it on y. It just doesnt' work that way. At all.
Every component of a project, whether it's a game or a building or "whatever" gets factored into a budget and then the budget is set.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo