this is my point and why I feel in the next 3-6 months this game will decline heavily.. once all those who bought into the hype and advertising find how shallow the game really is they will unsubscribe..
Advertising is what sells boxes, the game itself is what sells subscriptions
"lol this game will never do good"
1 million subs in a week
"lol this game won't have any players in a month"
2 million sold, 1.7 million users
"lol this game will be dead in 3 months"
god you must be tired by having to constantly move that goal post
another one huh? look at my post history I have ALWAYS said the this game will do well for at least 3 months and would decline heavily afterwards.. please get some new material.
i would not only be suprised I would loose all faith in the gaming community if this game became a juggernaut. I'm sure it will go the route of rift and have a decent but not great sized population for awhile.. but within the next 6 months we have 3 and depending on scheduling 4 big releases coming to the MMO world. At release swtor didn't any "new" compitition but this year it will. I really don't feel the core game design is strong enough to keep even a good amount of players after all these new games are released.
I wouldn't go that far. Quite frankly I like the game quite a bit. But I don't play these games to fit in or be thought well of by the gaming community. I play them to have fun. As long as I'm having fun I'll subscribe. And of course others will do the same.
There is nothing wrong with it except that it "is what it is".
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Everyone is talking about retention rates and how many "real" subscribers this game actually has...
I think the bigger question is why did it only sell 2 million copies in the first 6 weeks? I don't care how that is spun by EA - that cannot be something they are pleased about.
This is an EA/Bioware game... supposed to be the next big thing. To see sales drying up as fast as they did in January...
2 million is awesome for just the US/EU in such a short amount of time. If it grows it will be by word of mouth and advertisemtns, just as WOW did.
Blizzard clearly has a lot of fans that want finished products before leaving WOW. They also made a bold move and offered D3 free with a years subscription.
Personally, I do not see this game growing if Bioware does not change its approach drastically. Maybe it is possible, but I will not hold any hopes of that coming to pass, especially after blaming graphical problems of player's computers and taking hours to even recognize there was a problem with Ilum when 1.1 launched.
If word of mouth is the main source of growth then I definitely do not see TOR growing massive. I just do not see any hardcore PVE or PVP community staying long, especially with competition following shortly behind. After how glitchy Eternity Vault remains, even after 1.1 and the Ilum fiasco I do not see the word of mouth being good. Heavy class and faction imbalance, although not entirely in Bioware's control, is a huge dentriment in my opinion in the long term for both PVP and PVE. Furthermore, personally I have not seen a single website that does not have the community distraught over the quality problems or already looking to the next game. To me, TOR's greatest weakness is that players are only playing it to kill time till newer titles arive. I do not know the future of TOR, but the long term looks grim. I am not saying TOR will die, but for a game hyped up to be the savior of MMOs it will be just another MMO.
i would not only be suprised I would loose all faith in the gaming community if this game became a juggernaut. I'm sure it will go the route of rift and have a decent but not great sized population for awhile.. but within the next 6 months we have 3 and depending on scheduling 4 big releases coming to the MMO world. At release swtor didn't any "new" compitition but this year it will. I really don't feel the core game design is strong enough to keep even a good amount of players after all these new games are released.
I wouldn't go that far. Quite frankly I like the game quite a bit. But I don't play these games to fit in or be thought well of by the gaming community. I play them to have fun. As long as I'm having fun I'll subscribe. And of course others will do the same.
There is nothing wrong with it except that it "is what it is".
my issue is this attitude is why this game relased in the state its in.. it's why we are being fed this linear hold your hand games year after year.. now if you are fine with that, that's cool you have your own views but mine I feel if people just accept this stuff and say "is what is" companies will see this as a sign this is what everyone wants so developers will just put out the same bland stuff over and over and over..... you have your views I have mine..
this is my point and why I feel in the next 3-6 months this game will decline heavily.. once all those who bought into the hype and advertising find how shallow the game really is they will unsubscribe..
Advertising is what sells boxes, the game itself is what sells subscriptions
"lol this game will never do good"
1 million subs in a week
"lol this game won't have any players in a month"
2 million sold, 1.7 million users
"lol this game will be dead in 3 months"
god you must be tired by having to constantly move that goal post
"lol this game did die on the 6th month"
STFU
Why I tend to be humble.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
this is my point and why I feel in the next 3-6 months this game will decline heavily.. once all those who bought into the hype and advertising find how shallow the game really is they will unsubscribe..
Advertising is what sells boxes, the game itself is what sells subscriptions
"lol this game will never do good"
1 million subs in a week
"lol this game won't have any players in a month"
2 million sold, 1.7 million users
"lol this game will be dead in 3 months"
god you must be tired by having to constantly move that goal post
The game is dying faster than any MMORPG I've ever played.
It's only a month and a half old and on a Sunday afternoon 80 percent of the servers are Light/Standard and no Very Heavy or Full servers.
The only MMORPG I've ever played that players were begging for server merges in the first month.
Box sales appear to have tanked in the second month.
Every bit of data indicates SWTOR is rapidly on its way to joining the rest of the failed WoW killers with 200 to 300k monthly subs.
this is my point and why I feel in the next 3-6 months this game will decline heavily.. once all those who bought into the hype and advertising find how shallow the game really is they will unsubscribe..
Advertising is what sells boxes, the game itself is what sells subscriptions
"lol this game will never do good"
1 million subs in a week
"lol this game won't have any players in a month"
2 million sold, 1.7 million users
"lol this game will be dead in 3 months"
god you must be tired by having to constantly move that goal post
The game is dying faster than any MMORPG I've ever played.
It's only a month and a half old and on a Sunday afternoon 80 percent of the servers are Light/Standard and no Very Heavy or Full servers.
The only MMORPG I've ever played that players were begging for server merges in the first month.
Box sales appear to have tanked in the second month.
Every bit of data indicates SWTOR is rapidly on its way to joining the rest of the failed WoW killers with 200 to 300k monthly subs.
I agree although today isn't the best to judge it is superbowl sunday and game is about to start
Honestly, for a game as 'big' as TOR is meant to be, that's a stupid move.
Luckily for me, I was in one of the last Beta's, so I know just how boring it gets after a while >.>
MMO's played: Ragnarok Online (For years), WoW (for a few weeks only), Guild Wars, Lineage 2, Eve, Allods, Shattered Galaxy, 9 Dragons, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Star Trek Online (Got someone ELSE to pay for it), Champions Online (Someone else paid), Dofus, Dragonica, LOTRO, DDO and more... A LOT more. I've played good AND bad. The bad didn't last long. :P
this is my point and why I feel in the next 3-6 months this game will decline heavily.. once all those who bought into the hype and advertising find how shallow the game really is they will unsubscribe..
Advertising is what sells boxes, the game itself is what sells subscriptions
"lol this game will never do good"
1 million subs in a week
"lol this game won't have any players in a month"
2 million sold, 1.7 million users
"lol this game will be dead in 3 months"
god you must be tired by having to constantly move that goal post
The game is dying faster than any MMORPG I've ever played.
It's only a month and a half old and on a Sunday afternoon 80 percent of the servers are Light/Standard and no Very Heavy or Full servers.
The only MMORPG I've ever played that players were begging for server merges in the first month.
Box sales appear to have tanked in the second month.
Every bit of data indicates SWTOR is rapidly on its way to joining the rest of the failed WoW killers with 200 to 300k monthly subs.
I agree although today isn't the best to judge it is superbowl sunday and game is about to start
Go Giants!!!!!
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I can't see how people wouldn't think a game with the name star wars made from bioware would sell anything less.. For me I thought it would sell close to 4-5 million boxes on its first month.. but I also feel in the coming months server merges are innevitable.
Like Lord of the Rings Online should have? Like Dungeons and Dragons should have? Like Warhammer should have? Need I go on?
Point I'm trying to make is close to 90% of gamers don't like to pay subscription fees for anything other than their xbox/playstation fees.
So you can't compare an MMO sales to a non-MMO sales, ever (an exception can be made for WoW, possibly.)
The Old Republic has sold more games in such a short time than any other MMO ever (I'm not including WoW expansions here.)
So yes, the game is a massive success, and has done wonderful things for the MMO genre.
i would not only be suprised I would loose all faith in the gaming community if this game became a juggernaut. I'm sure it will go the route of rift and have a decent but not great sized population for awhile.. but within the next 6 months we have 3 and depending on scheduling 4 big releases coming to the MMO world. At release swtor didn't any "new" compitition but this year it will. I really don't feel the core game design is strong enough to keep even a good amount of players after all these new games are released.
I wouldn't go that far. Quite frankly I like the game quite a bit. But I don't play these games to fit in or be thought well of by the gaming community. I play them to have fun. As long as I'm having fun I'll subscribe. And of course others will do the same.
There is nothing wrong with it except that it "is what it is".
my issue is this attitude is why this game relased in the state its in.. it's why we are being fed this linear hold your hand games year after year.. now if you are fine with that, that's cool you have your own views but mine I feel if people just accept this stuff and say "is what is" companies will see this as a sign this is what everyone wants so developers will just put out the same bland stuff over and over and over..... you have your views I have mine..
I don't take these games as some sort of lifestyle. Many others don't as well.
The game wasn't released in any "state". It had some issues but I can name a slew of games that not only had issues at launch but also issues after launch. Some "successful" games as well.
As far as players being "fed" anything,, it is true that's your opinion. But as I've said here and elsewhere, for some time, I've never EVER met a person who didn't like something that someone else didn't look on as horrible or just "less than".
Just because some players can't enjoy what this game, and others have to offer, doesn't mean that these games are necessarily bad.
I say "necessarily" because there are games out there that are seemingly falling apart.
This is a very solid game. Not perfect, but no game is. Especially so close to launch. It has some fun to offer those who enjoy Bioware's type of game. Might not be what some want or even think an mmo should be but very little ever stays the same over the course of its life.
That includes all the games that players like to tout as being classics.
My suggestion is that people who like this game play it and enjoy it and those who dont' look to the games that might matter more to them. Though I strongly suspect that once the pipeline of games releases we will be seeing more posts from players who built these games up to be more than what they ever could be.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Advertising is what sells boxes, the game itself is what sells subscriptions
Agreed. Advertising is a very powerful force, but there is only so much it can do. In the end, the game will succeed or fail based on its own merits.
Furthermore there are two forms of "success". One being financial success, and we just don't have access to the raw numbers to determine that, although we can make educated guesses. Whether the game is a financial success or not is purely factual.
The other definition of course being whether the game is a critical success or not. Personally, I think Bioware is the most over-rated game developer in a long time, perhaps ever. So I admit my bias. However, in my own honest evaluation, SWTOR deserves at best a 3/10. It's just an atrocious game. So for me personally, SWTOR is a massive failure.
i would not only be suprised I would loose all faith in the gaming community if this game became a juggernaut. I'm sure it will go the route of rift and have a decent but not great sized population for awhile.. but within the next 6 months we have 3 and depending on scheduling 4 big releases coming to the MMO world. At release swtor didn't any "new" compitition but this year it will. I really don't feel the core game design is strong enough to keep even a good amount of players after all these new games are released.
I wouldn't go that far. Quite frankly I like the game quite a bit. But I don't play these games to fit in or be thought well of by the gaming community. I play them to have fun. As long as I'm having fun I'll subscribe. And of course others will do the same.
There is nothing wrong with it except that it "is what it is".
my issue is this attitude is why this game relased in the state its in.. it's why we are being fed this linear hold your hand games year after year.. now if you are fine with that, that's cool you have your own views but mine I feel if people just accept this stuff and say "is what is" companies will see this as a sign this is what everyone wants so developers will just put out the same bland stuff over and over and over..... you have your views I have mine..
I don't take these games as some sort of lifestyle. Many others don't as well.
The game wasn't released in any "state". It had some issues but I can name a slew of games that not only had issues at launch but also issues after launch. Some "successful" games as well.
As far as players being "fed" anything,, it is true that's your opinion. But as I've said here and elsewhere, for some time, I've never EVER met a person who didn't like something that someone else didn't look on as horrible or just "less than".
Just because some players can't enjoy what this game, and others have to offer, doesn't mean that these games are necessarily bad.
I say "necessarily" because there are games out there that are seemingly falling apart.
This is a very solid game. Not perfect, but no game is. Especially so close to launch. It has some fun to offer those who enjoy Bioware's type of game. Might not be what some want or even think an mmo should be but very little ever stays the same over the course of its life.
That includes all the games that players like to tout as being classics.
My suggestion is that people who like this game play it and enjoy it and those who dont' look to the games that might matter more to them. Though I strongly suspect that once the pipeline of games releases we will be seeing more posts from players who built these games up to be more than what they ever could be.
I have been playing these game since the beginning since the BBS games since the hayday of Zmud since gemstone since dragonrealms from EQ1 and onward. I have been reading posts on these forums since this site was first put together. Now look at my firsts posts here all about this game.. I know for many its so easy to say don't like it just move on but I seen this attitude go from every massive failure of a game since the start. It's just my opinion but I believe strongly many beta testers get into games with the fanboy attitude where everything is perfect and do nothing but praise a developer at every single turn. For me to not be critical on the things you dislike and not make your feelings heard the cycle will continue.. yes we are not on the official forums and I highly doubt bioware cares whats posted here.. but many players of the game do post and read here. Many of those players play in guilds with other playerS and those players are firends with other players and so forth. If you can try and put an impression on people with your views of a subject you can help people to look at things in a more critical way. For me this is what's needed in this genre and lack thereof is how I feel a collosial of a game like this turned into such a huge dissapointment for me and from the views of many on this forums and everyone I know who is a long time MMOer in real life to them as well
Shrug. It's good that you said it's your opinion because you're simply just guessing here, and wildly at that. Did you know that GW2 has enough VO to fill 60 full feature films? And that TSW is fully voiced as well? If we're going to use your calculations, then their costs must be enormous too, easily 100-200 million dollars too, bc of VO and studio usage alone!
Well, if I'd think that way, that is. My guess is that the cost of it isn't negligible but certainly not the humongous sum that people make of it. Then again, since we don't know the official amount, it's all just guesswork, where in my guess I just try to use common sense and normal cost proportions as baseline.
Way t much time spent on this part of the game in my opinion. I'm sure GW2 didnt spend as much on it .
I'm fine with the full VO for the most part although I think it would of been better to just go VO for main class quest but it does feel like they put VO above everything else.. for me in any type of MMO where you can spend 100's and 100's of hours playing gameplay should always be #1 focus if you want to keep sub's long term.
Everyone is talking about retention rates and how many "real" subscribers this game actually has...
I think the bigger question is why did it only sell 2 million copies in the first 6 weeks? I don't care how that is spun by EA - that cannot be something they are pleased about.
This is an EA/Bioware game... supposed to be the next big thing. To see sales drying up as fast as they did in January...
Yeah, they ONLY broke a sales record. What a failure.
Everyone is talking about retention rates and how many "real" subscribers this game actually has...
I think the bigger question is why did it only sell 2 million copies in the first 6 weeks? I don't care how that is spun by EA - that cannot be something they are pleased about.
This is an EA/Bioware game... supposed to be the next big thing. To see sales drying up as fast as they did in January...
Yeah, they ONLY broke a sales record. What a failure.
LOL.
Commercial success is not a pure indicator that the game design is successful. Warhammer Online sold very well in the first month, but its game design and Mythic's mangament caused its decline. Just because TOR sold 2milliion copies in the first month means little if the game design fails. That is what a lot of people are debating now, is TOR's design a failure?
Furthermore, depending on how much analysts or EA thought TOR should of sold, it can be a failure or at least a disapointment. It may be true that TOR can break even with 500k subs, but the expectation still rests that it should both sell and retain far far more, especially when the game has been hyped to be an entirely new experience and an industry standard.
Everyone is talking about retention rates and how many "real" subscribers this game actually has...
I think the bigger question is why did it only sell 2 million copies in the first 6 weeks? I don't care how that is spun by EA - that cannot be something they are pleased about.
This is an EA/Bioware game... supposed to be the next big thing. To see sales drying up as fast as they did in January...
Yeah, they ONLY broke a sales record. What a failure.
LOL.
Commercial success is not a pure indicator that the game design is successful. Warhammer Online sold very well in the first month, but its game design and Mythic's mangament caused its decline. Just because TOR sold 2milliion copies in the first month means little if the game design fails. That is what a lot of people are debating now, is TOR's design a failure?
Furthermore, depending on how much analysts or EA thought TOR should of sold, it can be a failure or at least a disapointment. It may be true that TOR can break even with 500k subs, but the expectation still rests that it should both sell and retain far far more, especially when the game has been hyped to be an entirely new experience and an industry standard.
What I think I find funniest about this whole arguement is that people are scoffing at over 2 million units sold for this game after six weks when, for an MMO, that number is HUGE for the industry. This is NOT a single player game, nor is it a movie or a new shirt. If it was any of those later items, then it probably would be considered a huge failure, but for the industry it is in, it is one of the all time biggest successes so far. Anyone trying to argue otherwise needs to go get their heads checked for gapping holes.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Everyone is talking about retention rates and how many "real" subscribers this game actually has...
I think the bigger question is why did it only sell 2 million copies in the first 6 weeks? I don't care how that is spun by EA - that cannot be something they are pleased about.
This is an EA/Bioware game... supposed to be the next big thing. To see sales drying up as fast as they did in January...
Yeah, they ONLY broke a sales record. What a failure.
LOL.
Commercial success is not a pure indicator that the game design is successful. Warhammer Online sold very well in the first month, but its game design and Mythic's mangament caused its decline. Just because TOR sold 2milliion copies in the first month means little if the game design fails. That is what a lot of people are debating now, is TOR's design a failure?
Furthermore, depending on how much analysts or EA thought TOR should of sold, it can be a failure or at least a disapointment. It may be true that TOR can break even with 500k subs, but the expectation still rests that it should both sell and retain far far more, especially when the game has been hyped to be an entirely new experience and an industry standard.
What I think I find funniest about this whole arguement is that people are scoffing at over 2 million units sold for this game after six weks when, for an MMO, that number is HUGE for the industry. This is NOT a single player game, nor is it a movie or a new shirt. If it was any of those later items, then it probably would be considered a huge failure, but for the industry it is in, it is one of the all time biggest successes so far. Anyone trying to argue otherwise needs to go get their heads checked for gapping holes.
Everyone is talking about retention rates and how many "real" subscribers this game actually has...
I think the bigger question is why did it only sell 2 million copies in the first 6 weeks? I don't care how that is spun by EA - that cannot be something they are pleased about.
This is an EA/Bioware game... supposed to be the next big thing. To see sales drying up as fast as they did in January...
Yeah, they ONLY broke a sales record. What a failure.
LOL.
Commercial success is not a pure indicator that the game design is successful. Warhammer Online sold very well in the first month, but its game design and Mythic's mangament caused its decline. Just because TOR sold 2milliion copies in the first month means little if the game design fails. That is what a lot of people are debating now, is TOR's design a failure?
Furthermore, depending on how much analysts or EA thought TOR should of sold, it can be a failure or at least a disapointment. It may be true that TOR can break even with 500k subs, but the expectation still rests that it should both sell and retain far far more, especially when the game has been hyped to be an entirely new experience and an industry standard.
We're not talking about game design though. The OP specifically said that 2 millions sales for TOR was a failure, even though it broke sales records for an MMO release.
Spin it any way you want, but no MMO has ever sold this many boxes at launch. Months down the line we can debate how good the game was designed based on the retention, but the OP was specifically trying to downplay the box sales of the game, which is a silly argument for even the most fervent hater to make.
This isn't every other MMO. This is EA/Bioware's SWtoR.
This wasn't just a AAA MMO... it was supposed to be a AAA+.
Not only should they have been expecting the usual million or so MMO fans that will turn out for a AAA launch - they were supposedly going to be able to pull in big numbers and non-MMO gamers due to the massive popularity of Star Wars AND the fantastic new style of this game.
Week by week sales numbers show that clearly this game isn't getting rave word of mouth reviews - simple math shows you that the game will not be retaining subs @ the rate it is losing them.
It's annoying how its the same people that are STILL here whining about a game they don't like. Move along. Ya, ok, we get it, you don't like the game. WTH are you still here griping about it? Why don't you just find another game that you do enjoy?
Your so concerned about being "right" (more that a game you dislike might possibly be entertaining to someone other than yourself) that you stick around to vocal-bomb the posters that do like the game.
Truly, I have never seen anything more pathetic in gaming.
Commercial success is not a pure indicator that the game design is successful. Warhammer Online sold very well in the first month, but its game design and Mythic's mangament caused its decline. Just because TOR sold 2milliion copies in the first month means little if the game design fails. That is what a lot of people are debating now, is TOR's design a failure?
Furthermore, depending on how much analysts or EA thought TOR should of sold, it can be a failure or at least a disapointment. It may be true that TOR can break even with 500k subs, but the expectation still rests that it should both sell and retain far far more, especially when the game has been hyped to be an entirely new experience and an industry standard.
We're not talking about game design though. The OP specifically said that 2 millions sales for TOR was a failure, even though it broke sales records for an MMO release.
Spin it any way you want, but no MMO has ever sold this many boxes at launch. Months down the line we can debate how good the game was designed based on the retention, but the OP was specifically trying to downplay the box sales of the game, which is a silly argument for even the most fervent hater to make.
I understand what you are saying and I am sorry for not making myself clear, but I do think it is too early to call is a smashing success. It is true is has one the best launch sales figures for any MMO, but it still depends on how well EA believed it should have sold versus what it sold. Even with the sales record, EA can potentially see TOR as a disapointment if it does not reach their expecations. I think it is too early in that regard as it is too early to call it a finacial failure by the OP. We simply do not know.
Another thing to consider is who will replace all those that are quiting? If you compare this to WoW.. that game dident start big, When I left WoW back in 2005/6 the game hadent even begun to grow into the success it eventually became.
The game sold 2 million copies but for it to reach anny scuccess It must grow.. The offical EU versions of the forums are filled with " I quit post" "game lacks endgame content" " game is buggy" "pleas merge servers"
We dident have much of this back in 2004 when WoW launched.. We were happy when New servers came up as the once we were on were so crowded, the game had issues but was Compared to the other games around at that time A fresh take on the genre... All the Quests, and other things that Blizzard took and perfected from previous titles, really made vanilla WoW stand out amongst it's peers.
SWTOR dosent stand out, its not that original and people will not Buzz about it, or tell their friends "hey cheak out this super fun game im playing"...
So question is Will the 1,7m subs rise or will it slowly decline over the next 6 months as other games get released? My guess is it will only bleed subs.. Its my personal view but if you read the negtive post they are filled with shit that dosent work.. But you dont read anny positive post about what is FUN in the game...
Fanboys defend, but Nobody says anything about why they are having fun, what is good, and how awsome things are...
Just Im having fun, to bad you arnt.. now F.. off.. Is the standard comment from people who defend the game..
Without anny positive marketing by the players... word of mouth will not carry SWTOR to greater sub numbers. The fanboys will keep trashing haters but without bringing annything postive to the table...
Iv tried real hard to find anny posts about the game that would spark my interest or make me exited about the game but I do not find anny.... I personaly will never play the game, but for those that might, if you read on the offical forums its mostly just constant whining about how bad things are. And Rbbid fanboys telling peope to quit or get the F out....
Everyone is talking about retention rates and how many "real" subscribers this game actually has...
I think the bigger question is why did it only sell 2 million copies in the first 6 weeks? I don't care how that is spun by EA - that cannot be something they are pleased about.
This is an EA/Bioware game... supposed to be the next big thing. To see sales drying up as fast as they did in January...
ROFL this was the FASTEST growing MMO in HISTORY! You are clueless.
Comments
another one huh? look at my post history I have ALWAYS said the this game will do well for at least 3 months and would decline heavily afterwards.. please get some new material.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
I wouldn't go that far. Quite frankly I like the game quite a bit. But I don't play these games to fit in or be thought well of by the gaming community. I play them to have fun. As long as I'm having fun I'll subscribe. And of course others will do the same.
There is nothing wrong with it except that it "is what it is".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Personally, I do not see this game growing if Bioware does not change its approach drastically. Maybe it is possible, but I will not hold any hopes of that coming to pass, especially after blaming graphical problems of player's computers and taking hours to even recognize there was a problem with Ilum when 1.1 launched.
If word of mouth is the main source of growth then I definitely do not see TOR growing massive. I just do not see any hardcore PVE or PVP community staying long, especially with competition following shortly behind. After how glitchy Eternity Vault remains, even after 1.1 and the Ilum fiasco I do not see the word of mouth being good. Heavy class and faction imbalance, although not entirely in Bioware's control, is a huge dentriment in my opinion in the long term for both PVP and PVE. Furthermore, personally I have not seen a single website that does not have the community distraught over the quality problems or already looking to the next game. To me, TOR's greatest weakness is that players are only playing it to kill time till newer titles arive. I do not know the future of TOR, but the long term looks grim. I am not saying TOR will die, but for a game hyped up to be the savior of MMOs it will be just another MMO.
my issue is this attitude is why this game relased in the state its in.. it's why we are being fed this linear hold your hand games year after year.. now if you are fine with that, that's cool you have your own views but mine I feel if people just accept this stuff and say "is what is" companies will see this as a sign this is what everyone wants so developers will just put out the same bland stuff over and over and over..... you have your views I have mine..
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Why I tend to be humble.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
The game is dying faster than any MMORPG I've ever played.
It's only a month and a half old and on a Sunday afternoon 80 percent of the servers are Light/Standard and no Very Heavy or Full servers.
The only MMORPG I've ever played that players were begging for server merges in the first month.
Box sales appear to have tanked in the second month.
Every bit of data indicates SWTOR is rapidly on its way to joining the rest of the failed WoW killers with 200 to 300k monthly subs.
I agree although today isn't the best to judge it is superbowl sunday and game is about to start
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
It still hasn't released in NZ and Aus yet.
Honestly, for a game as 'big' as TOR is meant to be, that's a stupid move.
Luckily for me, I was in one of the last Beta's, so I know just how boring it gets after a while >.>
MMO's played: Ragnarok Online (For years), WoW (for a few weeks only), Guild Wars, Lineage 2, Eve, Allods, Shattered Galaxy, 9 Dragons, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Star Trek Online (Got someone ELSE to pay for it), Champions Online (Someone else paid), Dofus, Dragonica, LOTRO, DDO and more... A LOT more. I've played good AND bad. The bad didn't last long. :P
Go Giants!!!!!
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
This...LOL!!!
I don't take these games as some sort of lifestyle. Many others don't as well.
The game wasn't released in any "state". It had some issues but I can name a slew of games that not only had issues at launch but also issues after launch. Some "successful" games as well.
As far as players being "fed" anything,, it is true that's your opinion. But as I've said here and elsewhere, for some time, I've never EVER met a person who didn't like something that someone else didn't look on as horrible or just "less than".
Just because some players can't enjoy what this game, and others have to offer, doesn't mean that these games are necessarily bad.
I say "necessarily" because there are games out there that are seemingly falling apart.
This is a very solid game. Not perfect, but no game is. Especially so close to launch. It has some fun to offer those who enjoy Bioware's type of game. Might not be what some want or even think an mmo should be but very little ever stays the same over the course of its life.
That includes all the games that players like to tout as being classics.
My suggestion is that people who like this game play it and enjoy it and those who dont' look to the games that might matter more to them. Though I strongly suspect that once the pipeline of games releases we will be seeing more posts from players who built these games up to be more than what they ever could be.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Agreed. Advertising is a very powerful force, but there is only so much it can do. In the end, the game will succeed or fail based on its own merits.
Furthermore there are two forms of "success". One being financial success, and we just don't have access to the raw numbers to determine that, although we can make educated guesses. Whether the game is a financial success or not is purely factual.
The other definition of course being whether the game is a critical success or not. Personally, I think Bioware is the most over-rated game developer in a long time, perhaps ever. So I admit my bias. However, in my own honest evaluation, SWTOR deserves at best a 3/10. It's just an atrocious game. So for me personally, SWTOR is a massive failure.
I have been playing these game since the beginning since the BBS games since the hayday of Zmud since gemstone since dragonrealms from EQ1 and onward. I have been reading posts on these forums since this site was first put together. Now look at my firsts posts here all about this game.. I know for many its so easy to say don't like it just move on but I seen this attitude go from every massive failure of a game since the start. It's just my opinion but I believe strongly many beta testers get into games with the fanboy attitude where everything is perfect and do nothing but praise a developer at every single turn. For me to not be critical on the things you dislike and not make your feelings heard the cycle will continue.. yes we are not on the official forums and I highly doubt bioware cares whats posted here.. but many players of the game do post and read here. Many of those players play in guilds with other playerS and those players are firends with other players and so forth. If you can try and put an impression on people with your views of a subject you can help people to look at things in a more critical way. For me this is what's needed in this genre and lack thereof is how I feel a collosial of a game like this turned into such a huge dissapointment for me and from the views of many on this forums and everyone I know who is a long time MMOer in real life to them as well
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
I'm fine with the full VO for the most part although I think it would of been better to just go VO for main class quest but it does feel like they put VO above everything else.. for me in any type of MMO where you can spend 100's and 100's of hours playing gameplay should always be #1 focus if you want to keep sub's long term.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Yeah, they ONLY broke a sales record. What a failure.
LOL.
Commercial success is not a pure indicator that the game design is successful. Warhammer Online sold very well in the first month, but its game design and Mythic's mangament caused its decline. Just because TOR sold 2milliion copies in the first month means little if the game design fails. That is what a lot of people are debating now, is TOR's design a failure?
Furthermore, depending on how much analysts or EA thought TOR should of sold, it can be a failure or at least a disapointment. It may be true that TOR can break even with 500k subs, but the expectation still rests that it should both sell and retain far far more, especially when the game has been hyped to be an entirely new experience and an industry standard.
What I think I find funniest about this whole arguement is that people are scoffing at over 2 million units sold for this game after six weks when, for an MMO, that number is HUGE for the industry. This is NOT a single player game, nor is it a movie or a new shirt. If it was any of those later items, then it probably would be considered a huge failure, but for the industry it is in, it is one of the all time biggest successes so far. Anyone trying to argue otherwise needs to go get their heads checked for gapping holes.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
agreed!!!
There Is Always Hope!
We're not talking about game design though. The OP specifically said that 2 millions sales for TOR was a failure, even though it broke sales records for an MMO release.
Spin it any way you want, but no MMO has ever sold this many boxes at launch. Months down the line we can debate how good the game was designed based on the retention, but the OP was specifically trying to downplay the box sales of the game, which is a silly argument for even the most fervent hater to make.
This isn't every other MMO. This is EA/Bioware's SWtoR.
This wasn't just a AAA MMO... it was supposed to be a AAA+.
Not only should they have been expecting the usual million or so MMO fans that will turn out for a AAA launch - they were supposedly going to be able to pull in big numbers and non-MMO gamers due to the massive popularity of Star Wars AND the fantastic new style of this game.
Week by week sales numbers show that clearly this game isn't getting rave word of mouth reviews - simple math shows you that the game will not be retaining subs @ the rate it is losing them.
It's annoying how its the same people that are STILL here whining about a game they don't like. Move along. Ya, ok, we get it, you don't like the game. WTH are you still here griping about it? Why don't you just find another game that you do enjoy?
Your so concerned about being "right" (more that a game you dislike might possibly be entertaining to someone other than yourself) that you stick around to vocal-bomb the posters that do like the game.
Truly, I have never seen anything more pathetic in gaming.
I understand what you are saying and I am sorry for not making myself clear, but I do think it is too early to call is a smashing success. It is true is has one the best launch sales figures for any MMO, but it still depends on how well EA believed it should have sold versus what it sold. Even with the sales record, EA can potentially see TOR as a disapointment if it does not reach their expecations. I think it is too early in that regard as it is too early to call it a finacial failure by the OP. We simply do not know.
Another thing to consider is who will replace all those that are quiting? If you compare this to WoW.. that game dident start big, When I left WoW back in 2005/6 the game hadent even begun to grow into the success it eventually became.
The game sold 2 million copies but for it to reach anny scuccess It must grow.. The offical EU versions of the forums are filled with " I quit post" "game lacks endgame content" " game is buggy" "pleas merge servers"
We dident have much of this back in 2004 when WoW launched.. We were happy when New servers came up as the once we were on were so crowded, the game had issues but was Compared to the other games around at that time A fresh take on the genre... All the Quests, and other things that Blizzard took and perfected from previous titles, really made vanilla WoW stand out amongst it's peers.
SWTOR dosent stand out, its not that original and people will not Buzz about it, or tell their friends "hey cheak out this super fun game im playing"...
So question is Will the 1,7m subs rise or will it slowly decline over the next 6 months as other games get released? My guess is it will only bleed subs.. Its my personal view but if you read the negtive post they are filled with shit that dosent work.. But you dont read anny positive post about what is FUN in the game...
Fanboys defend, but Nobody says anything about why they are having fun, what is good, and how awsome things are...
Just Im having fun, to bad you arnt.. now F.. off.. Is the standard comment from people who defend the game..
Without anny positive marketing by the players... word of mouth will not carry SWTOR to greater sub numbers. The fanboys will keep trashing haters but without bringing annything postive to the table...
Iv tried real hard to find anny posts about the game that would spark my interest or make me exited about the game but I do not find anny.... I personaly will never play the game, but for those that might, if you read on the offical forums its mostly just constant whining about how bad things are. And Rbbid fanboys telling peope to quit or get the F out....