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Star Wars: The Old Republic: Good Cop, Bad Cop – SWTOR

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,583MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

There is no question that Star Wars: The Old Republic has stirred strong feelings on both sides of the love/hate aisle. In today's Good Cop, Bad Cop, we take a look at opposing viewpoints about various controversial topics in SWTOR. See what you think and judge for yourself who best represents the light and dark sides of the equation.

What better game to start this crazy new semi-regular column with than the most controversial one we’ve seen in ages here on the site? Star Wars: The Old Republic has people talking. Many love it, and many don’t, but everyone has seemingly tried it at some point or another. One thing’s for sure though when it comes to SWTOR: no one seems to be able to agree on what’s good and what’s lacking in BioWare’s first MMORPG. Let’s give you two opposing views then, shall we? Adam Tingle is in love with the newest addition to Star Wars’ canon, while Suzie Ford finds it lacking in several ways. Here today, the two battle it out over a number of topics, and we’ll let you decide who won in this debate.

Read more of Adam Tingle's and Suzie Ford's Star Wars: The Old Republic - Good Cop, Bad Cop – SWTOR.

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Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

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Comments

  • WeretigarWeretigar winifrede, WVPosts: 609Member

    Suzie FTW!! Mrs. Lightside hit the nail on the head, and I agree with most of it.

  • SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News Manager The Land of AZPosts: 16,583MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

    *sniffs joyously* Thanks, Weretigar! :D Of course, the fact that I am always good is a given. ;)

    Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
    Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

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  • AeolronAeolron Ottawa, ONPosts: 648Member
    Well I disagree with Suzie on the voice overs. Granted some RPGs out there have the voice over thing, granted you have to pay 15 bucks per month, but let me throw this out there, how many single player RPGs have that much content with voice overs and epic sized story lines? I've been playing this game since beta and in no way do I find it gets old fast, however for some repeatable quest I find myself using spacebar as well, because I've already completed those quests.

    I have afew high levels two of which are 50s and still having a blast with the game regardless of some fetch quests.
    The game is extremely well done and in many ways surpasses alot of single player RPGs out there, so, that is why I disagree with Suzie on this point.
  • WeretigarWeretigar winifrede, WVPosts: 609Member

    Originally posted by Aeolron

    Well I disagree with Suzie on the voice overs. Granted some RPGs out there have the voice over thing, granted you have to pay 15 bucks per month, but let me throw this out there, how many single player RPGs have that much content with voice overs and epic sized story lines? I've been playing this game since beta and in no way do I find it gets old fast, however for some repeatable quest I find myself using spacebar as well, because I've already completed those quests.



    I have afew high levels two of which are 50s and still having a blast with the game regardless of some fetch quests.

    The game is extremely well done and in many ways surpasses alot of single player RPGs out there, so, that is why I disagree with Suzie on this point.

    Fable 3 complete with the same graphics and coop, but if we are just looking at lightside dark side with super huge content try Fallout New Vegas with all the Xpac.

  • AeolronAeolron Ottawa, ONPosts: 648Member
    I have played all those games, still doesn't have close to the same amount of content.
  • SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News Manager The Land of AZPosts: 16,583MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

    I actually totally agree on the amount of content. There are few SP RPGs that come close. I have no argument with the content, just get tired of voice overs REALLY fast.

    Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
    Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

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  • WeretigarWeretigar winifrede, WVPosts: 609Member

    Originally posted by Aeolron

    I have played all those games, still doesn't have close to the same amount of content.

    Noone is saying it;s a bad game but without the rehashed content you have 4 chars after their starter areas all content will be the same except for story so you cant call it completely different content. I could say Fallout nv has more voice acting then swtor, would it be true probally not but would all your awnseres be original for that main quest? Absolutly.

    Were getting way off topic thou its not a SPRPG its a MORPG. So it should behave like one. Luke use the force.

  • lalartulalartu SeoulPosts: 444Member

    both of you guys keep saying that it's Star Wars, but in reality, it doesn't feel like Star Wars at all.

    It has light sabers and the special abilities are referred to as "force", but that's where it ends.

    None of the loveable Star Wars characters/features/humour is in this title. 

    It's an empty shell with light sabers and very strict instructions on how it's meant to be played. Veer off the course and get punished by the ever-present banhammer.

    We should just refer to this as Light Sabers Online instead as I think this title has definitely put all those other great Star Wars games to shame

    Join me on Twitter @WhatDaMath
    http://twitter.com/WhatDaMath
    I review lots of indie games and MMORPGs

  • SkillCosbySkillCosby Trenton, MIPosts: 684Member

    The voice work was an innovative touch to gaming. However, SWTOR isn't a MMORPG. It's a gigantic KoTOR Co'op game that you have to pay monthly for. Bottom line.

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member

    COMPLETELY agree suzie, VO's are a good start at a good game but that should never ever be the only selling point of a game that's not even an mmo yet. No Adam, the IP of any game isn't enough to keep subs, quality. SUZIE is more and more awesome, yes rails for everything is supposedly the inspiration we all need to play this game right? No exploration no discoveries besides the occasional cron that not everyone looked up the location of it on torhead. The companion system is a good START but why can't they do what GW2 is doing and actually allow the entire hometowns to react to your presence according to what you have done in the game, why does it have to be a single npc who was with you anyways? And ADAM i'm sorry not having enough time to play the game doesn't excuse them from not including a LFG tool. The expectations of the mmo players who are not necessarily SW fans weren't sky high, they were right on the money. None of us wanted to see a WoW clone and yet they developed an even more linear experience then WoW. Why is that? Instead of providing an explorable world, a world that reacts to your choices not simply a single npc, and providing the BASIC mmo tools they decided to have people PAY for the real beta and call it a launch day. I don't care if it's mostly EA's demands they ALL knew it would be bad and they did it anyway. -- I'm sorry but I don't believe that it is in any way WRONG or misguided to expect MUCH MUCH more from a AAA title who spent $200mil on the developement of an mmo that wasn't feature complete at launch.



     

  • Paragus1Paragus1 Philadelphia, PAPosts: 1,739Member Uncommon
  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonPosts: 1,420Member

    OMG another SWTOR article!

     

    BioWare must be funding these articles, surely?

  • AeolronAeolron Ottawa, ONPosts: 648Member
    Not every mmo had a lfg tool in place at launch!

    There are so many people who really do not know what a rpg is, you want to skip ahead of quests and just get to the action, then there's fps for that. The element in a rpg is story plain and simple. Swtor is a fantastic mmorpg ( I say mmorpg because the raids are alot of fun and hard mode flashpoints require groups ) I never knew single player RPGs to have raid groups, player guilds and of course pvp.

    Mmos that charged a monthly fee do so to fund development costs of the game further down the road, which means more content and further expansions onto the game world.

    This is a game meant for people who enjoy the true rpg element IE story , and sorry to say this but the wow community or people who simply don't enjoy RPGs will not enjoy swtor , and that ladies and gentlemen is why we have topics like these all over this site.
  • TardcoreTardcore MinskPosts: 2,325Member

    I think this article format is an excelent idea, and feel this first attempt brought up some very relevent criticisms about SWTOR. However it all becomes farce when I look to the right of the page see the big

    8.7

    near perfect rating. How could a game have such noteworthy flaws yet still recive such a steller rating?

     



     

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    "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,183Member Uncommon

    First off Suzie, lets not use the word hate, it is far too severe a word and I think you are using it inappropriately in this instance.  Many of us might dislike SWTOR or be indifferent too it, but I highly doubt many actually hate the game at this point.

    I think the main point about SWTOR should be it is fun to play, but there is not much to keep you playing it.  I do think they way overdid the voice acting.  As to the lore and how it relates to the story line, I think Lotro did as good a job if not better in this area, so it is nothing new.

    My major disappointment with the game was the rinky dink space design.  They just should have waited and added something better, later like SWG did.

    My thoughts on this game is if you want to have fun for a couple of months give it a try, if you are looking for a long term MMO this game is probably not for you.

  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,592Member Uncommon

    If ToR was a single player game, I'd have a much higher regard for it.  Story is what BioWare does best, as anyone who has played their games knows.  But as an MMO... It has quite a number of serious flaws.  None of them are game breakers in and of themselves, but combined have been sufficient for me to hit the unsub button.

    I have about 20 days left in my sub, and my trooper (commando) is almost 47.  I may reach level cap (50) but I'm finding more and more excuses to do something else with my time (which is rather unusual for me with a new game). 

    It started when I reached the late 20's, when I noticed more and more rough edges (companion pathing, edge clipping, LOS issues, hot bar activation issues, to name but a few).  This has grown worse as I've moved into the 30's and 40's.  In several cases I've had to stand directly ON an enemy or I'd get the ("can not see your target" error...).  Since the trooper class is ranged DPS, you can imagine how annoying that gets. ^^

    From what I'm seeing, I suspect that the later content was rushed out, without applying sufficient polish (no doubt EA was howling in the background GO GO GO!!).  Hopefully, this will be addressed as the game matures. 

    But what actually crystalized all of this minor discontent into a major annoyance was the class mission when my choice of which companion to use was seriously limited.  Normally I use my tank companion (4X mech) for normal encounters (up to silver elite) and use my healing companion for bosses (gold stars),  I wasn't able to do that in this mission. I did make it through the mission, but the lack of choice REALLY grated on me. 

    Its been down hill since then.  Last, but certainly not least, is the fact that I seem to be on one of the low population shards, because I can go for days without seeing more than one or two other players (out on the planets).  This lack of population also impacts the AH, and the ability to find people for heroics (I've lost track of those I've dumped because they have gone gray on me (I've out leveled them)). Put all of this togather, and I'm now actively looking for another game.  This is REALLY unusual for me in a new game. 

     

     

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member

    Originally posted by Tardcore

    I think this article format is an excelent idea, and feel this first attempt brought up some very relevent criticisms about SWTOR. However it all becomes farce when I look to the right of the page see the big

    8.7





    near perfect rating. How could a game have such noteworthy flaws yet still recive such a steller rating?





     










     




     



    8.7 is a solid "B" effort. Not even "B+", just "B". Not exactly a "near perfect rating".

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • CoolitCoolit FalkirkPosts: 468Member Uncommon

    Thats a very well written article and I agree with most of what you say Suzie but as Tardcore pointed out I felt distracted by the much debated IN YOUR FACE 8.7 SCORE, although I realise this has nothing to do with you're article, things don't compute.

  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member

    Originally posted by Aeolron

    Not every mmo had a lfg tool in place at launch!



    There are so many people who really do not know what a rpg is, you want to skip ahead of quests and just get to the action, then there's fps for that. The element in a rpg is story plain and simple. Swtor is a fantastic mmorpg ( I say mmorpg because the raids are alot of fun and hard mode flashpoints require groups ) I never knew single player RPGs to have raid groups, player guilds and of course pvp.



    Mmos that charged a monthly fee do so to fund development costs of the game further down the road, which means more content and further expansions onto the game world.



    This is a game meant for people who enjoy the true rpg element IE story , and sorry to say this but the wow community or people who simply don't enjoy RPGs will not enjoy swtor , and that ladies and gentlemen is why we have topics like these all over this site.


     

    They aren't competing with MMOs from the start, that's a poor excuse.

    Far as RPGs that's subjective, some/many would like to RP outside of the [story/cutscenes] 

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • LowcaianLowcaian NsjoPosts: 265Member

    I fail to see how VO increases the quality of a quest if it's the same questt. "Go to Aldreaan and find the tresure"  in text and "Go to Alderaan and find treasure" spoken are the same thing. Multiple choices has nothing to do with VO either.

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  • BunksBunks New Port Richey, FLPosts: 960Member

    Wish my old math teacher was more like you guys when it came to final scores. :)

  • CoolitCoolit FalkirkPosts: 468Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Wraithone

    Its been down hill since then.  Last, but certainly not least, is the fact that I seem to be on one of the low population shards, because I can go for days without seeing more than one or two other players (out on the planets).

    I was on a FULL population PVP shard and didnt see many of the other faction at all, it's due to bad game design in my opinion.

  • TerranahTerranah Stockton, CAPosts: 3,605Member

    I like vo's but not at the expense of other game features.  VO's cost a lot of money so to have it maybe we have to give up other things, and maybe that is what we are experiencing as lacking in the game.

  • logan400klogan400k Owings Mills, MDPosts: 68Member Uncommon

    I guess I must be playing a different game than both of the authors. The game could not be any more disappointing than this hack fest of an article, however.

    Adam: Please don't ever argue on behalf of... well anything. Ever.

    Suzie: There are a number of non-VO quests and many VO quests that are "Oh you got it. Thanks:" without a need to even make a dialogue choice. You have been beating that horse for a while now. 

    Just My 2 Lunars

  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Boring, TXPosts: 1,171Member Uncommon

    NPC ai that fights along side you, while at the same time having their own story line?

    Sure haven't seen that before!

     

    The only thing that companions do that is innovative is take the work out of crafting, next up, companions that play the game for you.

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