That's just market reality and you can't really spin that.
The last decent fantasy sandbox was released last millenum. Of the two notable sci fi ones, one you control a ship (and is the number 3 western MMORPG n subs behind WoW and SWTOR) and the other one did well despite *horrendous* launch conditions and didnt truly fail into it became a themepark.
When a quality sandbox (without forced PvP) releases then we can make real conclusions.
Posts like this just seem weird to me as it isn't what happens in the real world.
In the real world, 'Themeparks' are outselling 'Sandboxes' in terms of subs and box sales.
And yes, it has been failing to the tune of 11 Million subscribers over the past 8 years! /sarcasm
uhu and Macdonals outsells the little restuarant that sells home made amazing fresh food. That does not mean the crap burgers are not crap. Now imagine if that amazing restuarant got funded to open a massive chain to compete with Macdonalds and it did not have a board of directors that demanded it to make burgers because that made the biggest profit. We the consumer just gained more quality choice!
Your 'fast food' analogy breaks down when it is pointed out that most MMOs cost the same, $15 to play.
Essentially, the expense of the entertainment is the same but people are still buying themeparks more than sandboxes.
That's just market reality and you can't really spin that.
it wasn't my analogy, but ill pay £15 to the local restuarant for the good food rather than £15 at macdonalds where available, wouldnt you?
So in this hypothetical scenario, WoW is Macdonalds while some sandbox is 'good food'?
Sorry, but I don't think I can ever be arrogant enough to say 'XYZ is good for me therefore, it must be good for others'.
More people find themeparks enjoyable and worth spending their money than sandboxes.
I make no personal judgement on what people spend their money on, what sells better is what gets made.
Market reality, free market, capitalism, supply-demand and all that.
not quite, macdonalds is wow, the good restuarant is mearly a game that values quality over profit. (could be another themepark)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Oh rly? And besides we're not talking about "simulation" vs "gameplay". You're confusing the issue. The discussion is about player-generated vs scripted content. These are two completely different discussions. You can have a "gameplay-oriented" game which is heavily player-driven and a simulation which is completely scripted. And besides, I really have no idea what you mean by "simulation" and "gameplay" in this context.
Well a conversation about the current state of MMORPGs isn't complete without pointing out that the success of modern MMORPGs has rested solely upon the fact that they've striven to be better games, at the cost of whatever nebulous alternative traits early MMORPGs had.
Clearly not every attempt to provide better gameplay was successful, but the more successful at delivering quality gameplay (no matter the cost to oldschool MMORPG elements) the more successful the MMORPG has been.
Well, a conversation about the current state of MMORPGs isn't complete without pointing out that the games (or game, in most respects) which have become so succesful, have done so in a very different state than they are now, the state what in the context of this thread is called "modern mmo".
To modify your previous analogy:
Non-mmo games - car
Early mmos - bicycle
Later mmos - motorcycle
Modern mmos - mini cooper, not a twowheel anymore, but still a poor excuse for a car (to all enthusiasts: sorry)
Is it in this loose/loose (maybe except for the enthusiasts like you ) situation so surprising, that people are looking for something different, even claiming that the "genre has to reinvent itself", however odd it may sound, and that the only mmo "reaching for the millions" in the recent years was a quite weak asian pvp grinder?
Flame on!
Well the analogy is OK, and it beats that tired old restaurant one (jeez...) but I wouldnt't say that current mmos are mini coopers (it's a proper car, you see.)
I'd say that current mmos are motorcycles with training wheels added ("Gasp! You can't ride on just two wheels! Preposterous, here's two more!") Or cars with three wheels ("Lets make a compromise...").. You choose:
Analogies can be used in all kinds of way to elaborate upon a point, but they prove little. For example, I could use the example of a franchise of restaurants where they provide good quality food with a wide variety but where you know what to expect when you visit another restaurant of the franchise elsewhere (WoW or themepark MMO's) compared to eating at some local restaurarant, not particularly on Michelin star level, the furniture looks shabbier and the food has some strange ingredients in it where you'd rather not know what animal or insects it came from, but at least it's different (sandbox), and then make the sandbox comparison. Because that's how sandbox MMO's also have been like the past 6-7 years (eg Xsyon, Darkfall).
As for sandbox MMO's being innovative, come on people, let's be realistic here and abandon the deification effect, the 'surely heaven/paradise/existence after death must be a so much better place than here and now' way of thinking. It isn't about innovative that sandbox gamers want, because if a SWG would be reopened as it was at launch but somewhat more polished or UO in true 3D with 2010 graphics but with the exact same mechanics, they would play it in a heartbeat.
Most sandbox fans/themepark(WoW) haters simply want an AAA MMORPG that isn't a themepark MMO, at least something different from a traditional WoWesque one. Most features they are crying out for aren't wildly innovative ones at all, but features that have already been seen and used in other sandbox type of MMO's.
Most sandbox fans/themepark(WoW) haters simply want an AAA MMORPG that isn't a themepark MMO, at least something different from a traditional WoWesque one.
And some themepark fans that are also sandbox haters can't accept that, so they go to forums, insult other people, and when they get banned, they create another account.
It almost seems like if they had more fun with forum PVP than actually playing MMOs, am i right, Mav?
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
Most sandbox fans/themepark(WoW) haters simply want an AAA MMORPG that isn't a themepark MMO, at least something different from a traditional WoWesque one.
And some themepark fans that are also sandbox haters can't accept that, so they go to forums, insult other people, and when they get banned, they create another account.
It almost seems like if they had more fun with forum PVP than actually playing MMOs, am i right, Mav?
Nice trick you play here, resorting to attack a person when you can't win or debate an argument fair and square. I don't get where you got the silly notion that I am some 'sandbox hater', because I have nothing against sandbox MMO's. I do have something against sandbox elitists that can't respect or accept that other people can like and enjoy non-sandbox MMO's when they themselves can't or can't anymore.
What, you want to tell me that a lot of people complaining about themepark MMO's and desperately seeking for sandbox MMO's to play wouldn't jump into a relaunched SWG or revamped UO with 2010 3D graphics in a heartbeat when they'd have that option? Even if it had the exact same mechanics those MMO's were famous for? And even if the features they have are exactly the ones they have demanded?
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Originally posted by smh_alot
Originally posted by Bladestrom
why is thread being derailed to sandbox v themepark?
You helped make it about that, with your eager acceptance and reuse of silly analogies like McDonald's and 'good food' nonsense (lol) -_-
the analagy was about sales and quality, and i was not talking about sandboxes, silly.
The posts you quoted and build further upon used the terms 'WoW', 'EVE' and 'sandbox' in that analogy.
Developers may not need to reinvent the genre, but they do need to advance it. I remember when some development firms promised open world MMOs where the scale would come close to realism (either 1/4th scale or slightly smaller). Instead, we got instances (AO) and phasing (LOTRO and WOW) and updated graphics. Besides that, nothing has really changed about the essence of MMOs other than they keep paring down the feature list.
For me, this is why I don't play MMOs anymore because developers aren't even maintaining the old feature list, they're simplifying every aspect of MMOs to the point that there's no challenge anymore. It's funny that I put more time into singleplayer games like FO:NV and Skyrim by comparison to say TOR or FFXIV. And for my time, I get challenges, some surprises, and sometimes I cuss at the computer because I wanted to try something new (but I learned something new in the process too). But when I play an MMO it's press buttons 1 2 3 4 5 and maybe 6 and 7 if I have some oh shi- abilities. Beyond that there's no challenge, not even in PVP (open world or arenas). Dumbing games down make them less into games and more into drugs, imo. Especially when they focus too much on "phat loots" and less on experiences and exploration.
This is just like the chicken or the egg. Is it the developers fault that the customers are so driven to get these items or is it the customers that have this ingrained need for bigger and better?
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Most sandbox fans/themepark(WoW) haters simply want an AAA MMORPG that isn't a themepark MMO, at least something different from a traditional WoWesque one.
And some themepark fans that are also sandbox haters can't accept that, so they go to forums, insult other people, and when they get banned, they create another account.
It almost seems like if they had more fun with forum PVP than actually playing MMOs, am i right, Mav?
Nice trick you play here, resorting to attack a person when you can't win or debate an argument fair and square. I don't get where you got the silly notion that I am some 'sandbox hater', because I have nothing against sandbox MMO's. I do have something against sandbox elitists that can't respect or accept that other people can like and enjoy non-sandbox MMO's when they themselves can't or can't anymore.
What, you want to tell me that a lot of people complaining about themepark MMO's and desperately seeking for sandbox MMO's to play wouldn't jump into a relaunched SWG or revamped UO with 2010 3D graphics in a heartbeat when they'd have that option? Even if it had the exact same mechanics those MMO's were famous for? And even if the features they have are exactly the ones they have demanded?
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Originally posted by smh_alot
Originally posted by Bladestrom
why is thread being derailed to sandbox v themepark?
You helped make it about that, with your eager acceptance and reuse of silly analogies like McDonald's and 'good food' nonsense (lol) -_-
the analagy was about sales and quality, and i was not talking about sandboxes, silly.
The posts you quoted and build further upon used the terms 'WoW', 'EVE' and 'sandbox' in that analogy.
read the thread prior to my post and look at the point i was making not the words. Gargh another reasonable debate just got stomped on. Gz.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Most sandbox fans/themepark(WoW) haters simply want an AAA MMORPG that isn't a themepark MMO, at least something different from a traditional WoWesque one.
And some themepark fans that are also sandbox haters can't accept that, so they go to forums, insult other people, and when they get banned, they create another account.
It almost seems like if they had more fun with forum PVP than actually playing MMOs, am i right, Mav?
The logic in this post is something I can't quite understand.
If you want someting, why do you not support it?
If the market is not big enough to justify a 'AAA' development, make one or fund one.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
read the thread prior to my post and look at the point i was making not the words. Gargh another reasonable debate just got stomped on. Gz.
I replied upon the restaurant-analogy that was used by others than me for more than 10 posts in this thread, and upon the remark that sandbox = innovation that someone posted, imo that was the discussion being held in the past 2 pages.
Regarding my points, they were reasonable enough: again, I'm positive that a lot of sandbox fans that complain about themepark MMO's don't give 2 shits about innovation per se, most just want to play an AAA MMORPG that isn't like a WoWesque MMO and that has sandbox type of features that have already been seen in former MMO's like UO and SWG. In fact, if both of those would have been remade up to AAA level of quality and current day graphics but with the exact same features, I'm positive that a lot of people, sandbox fans, would play them, no innovation really needed, just sandboxy features that are different from themepark MMO's.
Most sandbox fans/themepark(WoW) haters simply want an AAA MMORPG that isn't a themepark MMO, at least something different from a traditional WoWesque one.
And some themepark fans that are also sandbox haters can't accept that, so they go to forums, insult other people, and when they get banned, they create another account.
no, what themepark fans can't except is that the sandbox crowd wants to turn every god damn mmo into a sandbox one, case in point the OP
go and support eve or some other shit so they can make that aaa mmo you want, don't shit up other games and devs that want to have nothing to do with the whole sandbox bullshit with your whining
I recently saw a video from Swtor where opposing factions were taking turns to wipe the other group out for PvP rep. This single video sums up for me what is wrong with MMO players these days. They simply don't relate to the game world. They have given up on immersion and will do anything to 'beat' the game as fast as possible. They'll happily walk round with a 'God of PvP' achievement to their name even if they've never actually engaged in fair PvP.
These people are locusts and they are no longer in the minority.
While i dont really disagree with your point, you may want to read the example you have provided again, slowly.
Is it now BAD that players ACTUALLY COMMUNICATE and WORK TOGETHER, because someone has stupidly set up the system so that taking turns is more beneficial and easy than try for a tie or anything?
REALLY ?
Players may be locusts, but the farmer who knows the locusts are coming and leaves his produce on the open field, has its own share of fault in this.
One of the more creative defenses of fight clubbing I've seen...... but still doesn't fix the fact that fight clubbing is horrible. It's horrible for the devs to implement something like it, but those who engage in it are still pretty worthless human beings.
RIFT is a financially successful game. Sure, it doesn't even have 1/10 the playerbase of Warcraft, but it does make money for the developer, and Trion is a very respectable one.
Yeah, but considering the investment-return and the risk involved it's not stellar by any means. If I were an investor, a mmorg would be the last product I'd want to invest in.
I bet EA/BW's suits are banging their heads against the wall for sinking all that money into SW:TOR while they could have made off like bandits with KOTORs 3, 4 and 5...
I would've bought it. Sadly, they basically killed a fantastic storyline with the MMO now. The fate of Revan might be "told" but it wasn't something you got to play. There won't be much more time to discover the deeper aspects of what Revan did, why Kreia really did what she did, etc.
TOR has a great storyline...... but as of right now it is a waste in TOR. TOR does a lot of things which are fun. Yet I'm just reaching level 20 (after 2 hours a night or so of either solo or 2 man groups), and boredom is already starting to set in from an MMO standpoint.
Personally, TOR is an outstanding single player game, except it isn't supposed to be a single player game.
WoW only saw financial success because it had a huge following of the Warcraft RTS games. If not for that IP it would have tanked.
There was more than that.
They had a very well developed IP with Warcraft. And they did indeed have battle.net to SATURATE players with teasers about WoW.
Yet they also had a very shrewd marketing team. They didn't stumble upon the accelerated path of leveling by accident. They saw that there was an audience for more casual people, and they went after them. They also spent a lot of money.
While "story driven MMO" is a nice concept, it really wasn't something people were clamoring for. I happen to think they've hit on something, and future games (whether pvp or pve based) should play with this a bit. Bioware should've identified:
1.) Why do we want to make a Star wars game
2.) Why did the previous Star Wars game fail?
3.) Why did WoW succeed?
4.) Why are people looking for something greater than WoW?
I think they answered some of these questions, but they didn't give enough thought to the others. They innovated with "story driven MMO", but other than that, Blizzard should sue them for plagirizing them, and plagirizing them badly.
Not ALL gamers are not locusts, simply the majority of people who participate on sites such as this are. Stop thinking the genre needs re-inventing because the fringes of a community say so.
I think you win this thread.
If a developer were to design a game based on majority opinion of this site, it would would be financial suicide. Catering to a fringe group from a fringe genre within the gaming industry isn't a recipe for much success.
Not ALL gamers are not locusts, simply the majority of people who participate on sites such as this are. Stop thinking the genre needs re-inventing because the fringes of a community say so.
I think you win this thread.
If a developer were to design a game based on majority opinion of this site, it would would be financial suicide. Catering to a fringe group from a fringe genre within the gaming industry isn't a recipe for much success.
you really have no idea how ridiculous it sounds to say
"Darkfall is fast food
and WoW is fine steak"?
unless you're a huge fan of Justin Bieber & (insert list of really popular musical artists), and think their popularity proves their superiority.... then you really should get off of that line of argumentation.
also the whole part about saying how your favorite games have all the benefits a customer could want with NO DRAWBACKs (your FAST STEAK restaurant analogy), just goes to show that analogy very quickly breaks down. almost nothing in this world is pure gain with no loss.
DF is the Bieber here. Grindy and zergy. Shallow.
Without a doubt WOW was a more interesting challenge of my skills than anything I found in Darkfall. If there was depth to be found in DF, it was well-hidden behind a huge wall of grind and zerginess.
not only can you not keep the analogies straight, you then spin it off into an anti-Darkfall rant. lol
i don't give a crap what you thought of Darkfall, its just a ridiculous comment to equate it to "fast food".
its obvious from that DF rant, and the WoW worship that real life skills have no importance to you. throw that on the pile with other worthless things to you, like a virtual world. or an MMO being an MMO. these points have been made abundantly clear. many times. time to break out of old patterns. but then.... thats what your preferred playstyle is. oh well, i guess its all part of the big picture.
why is thread being derailed to sandbox v themepark?
heh, seems like lately EVERY freakin' thread on every MMO forum quickly turns into sandbox vs. themepark.
they aren't necessarily opposites, which is how most people seem to be acting. even Darkfall has a certain small amount of themepark to it. every game can have both aspects. its just a matter of how much time/money is invested in culivating each of those aspects.
Without a doubt WOW was a more interesting challenge of my skills than anything I found in Darkfall. If there was depth to be found in DF, it was well-hidden behind a huge wall of grind and zerginess.
not only can you not keep the analogies straight, you then spin it off into an anti-Darkfall rant. lol
i don't give a crap what you thought of Darkfall, its just a ridiculous comment to equate it to "fast food".
its obvious from that DF rant, and the WoW worship that real life skills have no importance to you. throw that on the pile with other worthless things to you, like a virtual world. or an MMO being an MMO. these points have been made abundantly clear. many times. time to break out of old patterns. but then.... thats what your preferred playstyle is. oh well, i guess its all part of the big picture.
When a certain type of person comes upon something that they really really like, they seem to cling to that specific thing like it's a fucking security blanket. In such a state, it apparently becomes quite the challenge to see the world outside of the comfy cozy blanky. Change is essentially something to fear. It gets even more powerful when that blanky is associated with one's career.
"DF is the Bieber here"...Yikes It really doesn't get more out of touch than that. ""'"W W Holy Wowzers.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Comments
The last decent fantasy sandbox was released last millenum. Of the two notable sci fi ones, one you control a ship (and is the number 3 western MMORPG n subs behind WoW and SWTOR) and the other one did well despite *horrendous* launch conditions and didnt truly fail into it became a themepark.
When a quality sandbox (without forced PvP) releases then we can make real conclusions.
ArcheAge is the only real high quality AAA sandbox game.
not quite, macdonalds is wow, the good restuarant is mearly a game that values quality over profit. (could be another themepark)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Well the analogy is OK, and it beats that tired old restaurant one (jeez...) but I wouldnt't say that current mmos are mini coopers (it's a proper car, you see.)
I'd say that current mmos are motorcycles with training wheels added ("Gasp! You can't ride on just two wheels! Preposterous, here's two more!") Or cars with three wheels ("Lets make a compromise...").. You choose:
or
take your pick!
As for sandbox MMO's being innovative, come on people, let's be realistic here and abandon the deification effect, the 'surely heaven/paradise/existence after death must be a so much better place than here and now' way of thinking. It isn't about innovative that sandbox gamers want, because if a SWG would be reopened as it was at launch but somewhat more polished or UO in true 3D with 2010 graphics but with the exact same mechanics, they would play it in a heartbeat.
Most sandbox fans/themepark(WoW) haters simply want an AAA MMORPG that isn't a themepark MMO, at least something different from a traditional WoWesque one. Most features they are crying out for aren't wildly innovative ones at all, but features that have already been seen and used in other sandbox type of MMO's.why is thread being derailed to sandbox v themepark?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
You helped make it about that, with your eager acceptance and reuse of silly analogies like McDonald's and 'good food' nonsense (lol) -_-And some themepark fans that are also sandbox haters can't accept that, so they go to forums, insult other people, and when they get banned, they create another account.
It almost seems like if they had more fun with forum PVP than actually playing MMOs, am i right, Mav?
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
the analagy was about sales and quality, and i was not talking about sandboxes, silly.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
And some themepark fans that are also sandbox haters can't accept that, so they go to forums, insult other people, and when they get banned, they create another account.
It almost seems like if they had more fun with forum PVP than actually playing MMOs, am i right, Mav?
Nice trick you play here, resorting to attack a person when you can't win or debate an argument fair and square. I don't get where you got the silly notion that I am some 'sandbox hater', because I have nothing against sandbox MMO's. I do have something against sandbox elitists that can't respect or accept that other people can like and enjoy non-sandbox MMO's when they themselves can't or can't anymore.
What, you want to tell me that a lot of people complaining about themepark MMO's and desperately seeking for sandbox MMO's to play wouldn't jump into a relaunched SWG or revamped UO with 2010 3D graphics in a heartbeat when they'd have that option? Even if it had the exact same mechanics those MMO's were famous for? And even if the features they have are exactly the ones they have demanded?
You helped make it about that, with your eager acceptance and reuse of silly analogies like McDonald's and 'good food' nonsense (lol) -_-the analagy was about sales and quality, and i was not talking about sandboxes, silly.
The posts you quoted and build further upon used the terms 'WoW', 'EVE' and 'sandbox' in that analogy.This is just like the chicken or the egg. Is it the developers fault that the customers are so driven to get these items or is it the customers that have this ingrained need for bigger and better?
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
read the thread prior to my post and look at the point i was making not the words. Gargh another reasonable debate just got stomped on. Gz.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
The logic in this post is something I can't quite understand.
If you want someting, why do you not support it?
If the market is not big enough to justify a 'AAA' development, make one or fund one.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I replied upon the restaurant-analogy that was used by others than me for more than 10 posts in this thread, and upon the remark that sandbox = innovation that someone posted, imo that was the discussion being held in the past 2 pages.Regarding my points, they were reasonable enough: again, I'm positive that a lot of sandbox fans that complain about themepark MMO's don't give 2 shits about innovation per se, most just want to play an AAA MMORPG that isn't like a WoWesque MMO and that has sandbox type of features that have already been seen in former MMO's like UO and SWG. In fact, if both of those would have been remade up to AAA level of quality and current day graphics but with the exact same features, I'm positive that a lot of people, sandbox fans, would play them, no innovation really needed, just sandboxy features that are different from themepark MMO's.
no, what themepark fans can't except is that the sandbox crowd wants to turn every god damn mmo into a sandbox one, case in point the OP
go and support eve or some other shit so they can make that aaa mmo you want, don't shit up other games and devs that want to have nothing to do with the whole sandbox bullshit with your whining
*stomp*
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
One of the more creative defenses of fight clubbing I've seen...... but still doesn't fix the fact that fight clubbing is horrible. It's horrible for the devs to implement something like it, but those who engage in it are still pretty worthless human beings.
I would've bought it. Sadly, they basically killed a fantastic storyline with the MMO now. The fate of Revan might be "told" but it wasn't something you got to play. There won't be much more time to discover the deeper aspects of what Revan did, why Kreia really did what she did, etc.
TOR has a great storyline...... but as of right now it is a waste in TOR. TOR does a lot of things which are fun. Yet I'm just reaching level 20 (after 2 hours a night or so of either solo or 2 man groups), and boredom is already starting to set in from an MMO standpoint.
Personally, TOR is an outstanding single player game, except it isn't supposed to be a single player game.
There was more than that.
They had a very well developed IP with Warcraft. And they did indeed have battle.net to SATURATE players with teasers about WoW.
Yet they also had a very shrewd marketing team. They didn't stumble upon the accelerated path of leveling by accident. They saw that there was an audience for more casual people, and they went after them. They also spent a lot of money.
While "story driven MMO" is a nice concept, it really wasn't something people were clamoring for. I happen to think they've hit on something, and future games (whether pvp or pve based) should play with this a bit. Bioware should've identified:
1.) Why do we want to make a Star wars game
2.) Why did the previous Star Wars game fail?
3.) Why did WoW succeed?
4.) Why are people looking for something greater than WoW?
I think they answered some of these questions, but they didn't give enough thought to the others. They innovated with "story driven MMO", but other than that, Blizzard should sue them for plagirizing them, and plagirizing them badly.
I think you win this thread.
If a developer were to design a game based on majority opinion of this site, it would would be financial suicide. Catering to a fringe group from a fringe genre within the gaming industry isn't a recipe for much success.
EvE says hi. ATITD also.
not only can you not keep the analogies straight, you then spin it off into an anti-Darkfall rant. lol
i don't give a crap what you thought of Darkfall, its just a ridiculous comment to equate it to "fast food".
its obvious from that DF rant, and the WoW worship that real life skills have no importance to you. throw that on the pile with other worthless things to you, like a virtual world. or an MMO being an MMO. these points have been made abundantly clear. many times. time to break out of old patterns. but then.... thats what your preferred playstyle is. oh well, i guess its all part of the big picture.
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heh, seems like lately EVERY freakin' thread on every MMO forum quickly turns into sandbox vs. themepark.
they aren't necessarily opposites, which is how most people seem to be acting. even Darkfall has a certain small amount of themepark to it. every game can have both aspects. its just a matter of how much time/money is invested in culivating each of those aspects.
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When a certain type of person comes upon something that they really really like, they seem to cling to that specific thing like it's a fucking security blanket. In such a state, it apparently becomes quite the challenge to see the world outside of the comfy cozy blanky. Change is essentially something to fear. It gets even more powerful when that blanky is associated with one's career.
"DF is the Bieber here"...Yikes
It really doesn't get more out of touch than that. ""'"W W Holy Wowzers.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb