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What I've realised is people who are playing MMOs, do not actually want to play MMOs...

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  • nikoliathnikoliath Member UncommonPosts: 1,154

    Originally posted by Meltdown

    Ahaha the irony of some of the people on the forums. Whether its people clammoring for large-scale PvP then QQing when something like the SWTOR Valor-farm fests happen because its unfair. Or people who complain that society is doomed due to self-centered nature, and then want game developers to make a game catered to them... The irony is strong in him.

     

    OP regardless of the legitimacy of your concerns about the industry and the "dumbing down" effect, you have to see the irony in your statements...

     

    Calling out developers for listening to whiners on the forums and then turning around whining on the forums about the whiners because they aren't making the game you specifically want... 

    I concur completely... Had I been eating coco-pops whilst reading the OP I would have spat them all over the monitor. As I wasn't, I had to make do with a /facepalm.

     

    "Hey devs, stop listening to whiners dudes... Listen to me, whining"

  • Mythios11Mythios11 Member Posts: 129
    Totally agree with the OP. I remember playing SWG before mounts and having to run everywhere. There used to be an abandoned town way out in the middle of nowhere on one planet (forget the name) which had a great exploit for xp where you could kill panthers but they couldn't get to you as long as you stood in certain spots.

    My buddies and I would spend 25 minutes walking there every night and it really felt like our own little secret spot. We'd setup a camp and chill out in between spawns, always bs'ing and busting on each other. I still game with a lot of the same guys and we all agree that nothing has or most likely will compare to the mmo experience back in the day.
  • leojreimrocleojreimroc Member UncommonPosts: 371

    A lot of the MMO playerbase is getting older.  There are many generalizations in here that says that it's the young players who are ruining the new games.  Is it possible that it's the older gamers, now with steady jobs, family, kids, etc, that don't have time anymore to play for hours on end.

    I started my MMO playing with Anarchy Online where if you weren't online at specific times, your towers (world pvp) would be taken down by players, you would miss raids that only happened in the open world at specific times, and more open world stuff like this.  Don't get me wrong, I really miss this.  It was a fantastic MMO.  But there's no way that in this point of my life that I can have the same dedication to a game that I can now.  Right now, I have an 1-3 hours, and the times that I can play change everyday.  I just can't play the same way that I could 10 years ago.  I have a feeling that I'm not the only one.  That's why the "more easy to get into" games appeal to me now.  Even if theoretically I'm a fan of the old school way of making games, practically I can't do it.

    I want to keep playing MMOs, but MMOs might have changed to fit the growing number of people like me.  Just a thought.

  • kantseemekantseeme Member Posts: 709

    Originally posted by precious328

    Social Hubs is one of the most important and overlooked aspects to any MMO.

    People are pissed because they are tired of the same old crap:

    World of Warcraft - Vanguard, Age of Conan, Warhammer, Aion, Star Trek Online, RIFT, SWTOR, etc

     

    The days without the Social Hub, depth, and complexity, are over.

    i wouldent have grouped VG in that list of games you have there.

  • CuathonCuathon Member Posts: 2,211

    Originally posted by Praetalus

    Originally posted by Cuathon

    So many people miss the point of the OP. Casuals come in and say they want to play casual leisure games. As if the OP doesn't know this. He does know it. That's why he thinks its weird that they play MMOs. Instead of something like Diablo.

    I think the world would be a better place if they had made WoW a more Diablo type game. Like started with Diablo and added the WoW style graphics and push from there to more uninstanced areas and adding some features from EQ. Starting with EQ and constantly pushing towards Diablo is starting with the wrong end and ruining the MMO genre when there was a much faster and more intuitive way to do it without crapping on a genre that was never intended for casuals.

    Ok, I am the "casual" you speak of and I don't want a CORPG. I want an MMO. Just because I want some conveniences also, doesn't mean I don't want to interact with other players. We've talked about this before. Diablo and other CORPG's only have your group in the area, no others. I don't want that. I like TOR where I run across others all the time. 

     

    Just because we don't want your style of MMO, doesn't mean we don't want an MMO. 

     

    And it's completely your opinion that the MMO genre was not intended for casuals. Casuals spend more time and money on MMO's as they don't burn through the content, bitch and un-sub as fast as hardcore gamers. I don't need to prove I'm correct about that... just look where the money is going. Look where the genre is going. I'm as happy as can be with what is coming out and someone else is not. That proves I'm correct....lol

    If you read the post I talked about that. You don't want an MMO. You want a corpg with SOME mmo FEATURES. That is not the same as wanting an MMO. Running across other people is a  feature of MMOs but the way that casuals interact in MMOs was not how it was intended to be.

    You literally made an argument ad populum. Intentionally. "I'm right because the majority wants this." The majority also doesn't want an MMO.

    If you played early, read : real, MMOs you would know that the genre was not intended for casuals.

    99% of the people on this forum are so fucking ignorant about social dynamics. They have no idea what colonization of niche genres means.

    SUM 41 and New Found Glory are not punk bands. I love their music but its not punk. Its mainstream pop colonizing punk because they liked 20% of the features of punk. Punk was developed as working class every man music with low production values and musicians who can't play that well and singers who couldn't hack it in mainstream music of the time. Pop punk is a mainly middle class and upper class genre with high production values and big concerts and tours and CDs from major publishing countries.

    These pop punk bands are not punk bands. Pop punk isn't an ideal name but at least people do not constantly refer to these bands as "punk" with no qualifiers. Except little kids who don't actually know anything but what they hear on the radio. All the marketing companies telling them they are cool and original and have taste, but they are really listening to the same old pop with a slightly darker tone so that the industry can position their bands as edgey and different.

    Hell, even Milo Auckerman is embarrassed by all this hot topic industry pushed bullshit and his band The Descendants are practically the godfathers of pop punk who originated the girl and food focus of the genre.

    Its fine though. The word MMORPG has been so diluted that its unlikely for console kiddies and casuals ever to accept the distinction between having MMO features and being an MMO. Every creative industry has this problem so its pretty clear its not going away. The world views of social colonizers are never going to be inline with the minorities they consume.

  • CuathonCuathon Member Posts: 2,211

    Originally posted by Mythios11

    Totally agree with the OP. I remember playing SWG before mounts and having to run everywhere. There used to be an abandoned town way out in the middle of nowhere on one planet (forget the name) which had a great exploit for xp where you could kill panthers but they couldn't get to you as long as you stood in certain spots. My buddies and I would spend 25 minutes walking there every night and it really felt like our own little secret spot. We'd setup a camp and chill out in between spawns, always bs'ing and busting on each other. I still game with a lot of the same guys and we all agree that nothing has or most likely will compare to the mmo experience back in the day.

    +1 for virtual worlds.

  • kantseemekantseeme Member Posts: 709

    Originally posted by rdash

     

    Vast majority of players treat MMOs as games, not virtual worlds, but it's not because they're spoiled brats. Quite the opposite - most players are adults with full-time jobs and commitments, and they can't afford to waste their entertainment time spending hours working or running in game. This "instant gratification" is reasonable expectation of players who can devote only so much time to gaming, and want to get something out of it. Your idea of fun may be diferent, but it isn't better than theirs.


    If you dont have the time to devote to a MMO then you dont need to play one. Go play skyrim or something.

  • BossalinieBossalinie Member UncommonPosts: 724

    Originally posted by kantseeme

    Originally posted by rdash

     

    Vast majority of players treat MMOs as games, not virtual worlds, but it's not because they're spoiled brats. Quite the opposite - most players are adults with full-time jobs and commitments, and they can't afford to waste their entertainment time spending hours working or running in game. This "instant gratification" is reasonable expectation of players who can devote only so much time to gaming, and want to get something out of it. Your idea of fun may be diferent, but it isn't better than theirs.


    If you dont have the time to devote to a MMO then you dont need to play one. Go play skyrim or something.

     Uh, the majority of MMOs created in the past decade all called and would like to have a word with you....

  • kantseemekantseeme Member Posts: 709

    Originally posted by DarLorkar

    Never stops amazing me that some people feel the need to blame the market, not the Dev's :)

    The Dev's make the games, and then change them:) Why blame the customer? They can ask for what they want, but they can change nothing in a game. Just move on to the next. Which they will do anyhow soon enough.

    Who sounds like the spoiled ones really? The ones that want what they want and if they do not get it that call others names, or blame others parents?: :)

    As someone above said, look at CCP. They had a vision of what they wanted. They kept that vision through the slow growth, and pretty much made a game just the way they had envisioned it. Not much caving in to anyone at all along the way.

    They could of very well changed that game into a PVE game at any time they wanted and most likely made much more money. But that would not be the game they wanted to make and believed in.

    See, Dev's make the choices, the players, and customers do not. Blame the right people:)

     

    i LOLed at this. If you really want to place blame, look to the investors. Thats who the devs answer to.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775

    Originally posted by Cuathon

    So many people miss the point of the OP. Casuals come in and say they want to play casual leisure games. As if the OP doesn't know this. He does know it. That's why he thinks its weird that they play MMOs. Instead of something like Diablo.

     

    It is very simple. There is NOTHING like Diablo to be played today (until Diablo 3 of course). Think about what is needed in a game like that:

    1) good co-op content

    2) RPG type combat mechanics

    3) progression

    MMORPGs are *good fit* to those requirements for many. The open world and some quests don't hurt either. So i don't think it is weird at all. It is actually very natural. MMORPGs unintentionally fill a vacuum.

    Look at D3. Blizz is activey balancing it, and adding *some* selected MMO features (like an auction house). The new insight here is that *some* but not all MMOs features, combined with good action RPG combat & progression like Diablo, is going to be the new "killer app".

    I probably will play Diablo 3, as opposed to a MMO, as my main game when it is out. But at the same time, Diablo 3 is just ONE game, and does not cover all other settings. So there is room for others.

    To some extend, games like STO, DDO (and of course Hellgate London) is more like Diablo than *your* notion of a MMO. The fact that they are called MMO is just incidental.

  • kantseemekantseeme Member Posts: 709

    Originally posted by bossalinie

    Originally posted by kantseeme


    Originally posted by rdash

     

    Vast majority of players treat MMOs as games, not virtual worlds, but it's not because they're spoiled brats. Quite the opposite - most players are adults with full-time jobs and commitments, and they can't afford to waste their entertainment time spending hours working or running in game. This "instant gratification" is reasonable expectation of players who can devote only so much time to gaming, and want to get something out of it. Your idea of fun may be diferent, but it isn't better than theirs.


    If you dont have the time to devote to a MMO then you dont need to play one. Go play skyrim or something.

     Uh, the majority of MMOs created in the past decade all called and would like to have a word with you....

    tell them i dont have time to talk.... im waiting for a REAL MMO to call.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Thanks to all who agreed with me - funny thing is I'm only 28 and I already have become a bitter old man who wonders wtf is up with kids these days. Maybe I'm just an old soul...

    Because you are such a "the cup is empty" guy. I am 45 and i think modern gaming is GREAT, and MUCH better than the UO/EQ days.

  • GMan3GMan3 Member CommonPosts: 2,127

    Originally posted by kantseeme

    Originally posted by bossalinie


    Originally posted by kantseeme


    Originally posted by rdash

     

    Vast majority of players treat MMOs as games, not virtual worlds, but it's not because they're spoiled brats. Quite the opposite - most players are adults with full-time jobs and commitments, and they can't afford to waste their entertainment time spending hours working or running in game. This "instant gratification" is reasonable expectation of players who can devote only so much time to gaming, and want to get something out of it. Your idea of fun may be diferent, but it isn't better than theirs.


    If you dont have the time to devote to a MMO then you dont need to play one. Go play skyrim or something.

     Uh, the majority of MMOs created in the past decade all called and would like to have a word with you....

    tell them i dont have time to talk.... im waiting for a REAL MMO to call.

        If your suggestion is followed, you'll never get the call.  Fact it, there is not enough hardcore gamers for any company to cater too and still make a decent enough profit to make and run the game.  It is the casuals that actually keep games afloat and hence the reason that games cater to them more.

    "If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  • BossalinieBossalinie Member UncommonPosts: 724

    Originally posted by kantseeme

    Originally posted by bossalinie

    Originally posted by kantseeme

    Originally posted by rdash

     

    Vast majority of players treat MMOs as games, not virtual worlds, but it's not because they're spoiled brats. Quite the opposite - most players are adults with full-time jobs and commitments, and they can't afford to waste their entertainment time spending hours working or running in game. This "instant gratification" is reasonable expectation of players who can devote only so much time to gaming, and want to get something out of it. Your idea of fun may be diferent, but it isn't better than theirs.


    If you dont have the time to devote to a MMO then you dont need to play one. Go play skyrim or something.

     Uh, the majority of MMOs created in the past decade all called and would like to have a word with you....

    tell them i dont have time to talk.... im waiting for a REAL MMO to call.

     +1 for the pro ironic statement, Gepetto...

  • kantseemekantseeme Member Posts: 709

    Originally posted by bossalinie

    This is other thread where personal preference is trying to define an MMO.

    I personally am ok with the current model. When I was a kid, I could live in games and could keep up with the Jones. Now, with family and employment, getting 3 hours is putting in work. Are MMOs not for me? The past decade of releases says otherwise.

    They have allowed us to use a microwive to fix a meal rather than make us preheat the stove, boil waters, and prep dinner to get the same results. Does the latter generally taste better? Of course! If I had time to make it, I'd do it every day. The problem lies that I don't have time, and trying to do would only create other time issues. Since there are other options to obtaining my daily diet, the full dinner would go out the window. Eating out and using  the microwave to obtain similar results is enough to satisfy me and to keep me going.

    The industry pretty much went the route of instead of losing gamers, why not create something that caters to their liking. Unfortunately for stove cookers, the microwave/eat-out/hamburger helper idea went viral and others are joining in on the food nuking. People rarely do family full dinners now because preparing the food, cooking each item, and doing dishes is wasted time. Maybe on Saturdays and Sundays... :)

    so on the days you dont really have time to devot to your MMO, play Sonic or something. on the days you have the time, play MMOs. i understand not everyone has time to make a home cooked meal but thats no reason to ONLY eat fast food. And thats the MMos have turned into. A bunch of fast food chains. Sever up the same old garbage.

  • kantseemekantseeme Member Posts: 709

    Originally posted by GMan3

    Originally posted by kantseeme


    Originally posted by bossalinie


    Originally posted by kantseeme


    Originally posted by rdash

     

    Vast majority of players treat MMOs as games, not virtual worlds, but it's not because they're spoiled brats. Quite the opposite - most players are adults with full-time jobs and commitments, and they can't afford to waste their entertainment time spending hours working or running in game. This "instant gratification" is reasonable expectation of players who can devote only so much time to gaming, and want to get something out of it. Your idea of fun may be diferent, but it isn't better than theirs.


    If you dont have the time to devote to a MMO then you dont need to play one. Go play skyrim or something.

     Uh, the majority of MMOs created in the past decade all called and would like to have a word with you....

    tell them i dont have time to talk.... im waiting for a REAL MMO to call.

        If your suggestion is followed, you'll never get the call.  Fact it, there is not enough hardcore gamers for any company to cater too and still make a decent enough profit to make and run the game.  It is the casuals that actually keep games afloat and hence the reason that games cater to them more.

    Id bet there are more of us then you realize. Its the reason games like EVE and EQ are still goin. were out there.... and were just biding our time

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504

    Originally posted by precious328

    Okay. Well, you have WoW, AoC, WAR, STO, RIFT, and SWTOR. Those meet your linear requirements.

    You mind if the real players get a game, too?

    Seems to me you're getting games about as frequently as the market demands.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • GMan3GMan3 Member CommonPosts: 2,127

    Originally posted by kantseeme

    Originally posted by GMan3


    Originally posted by kantseeme


    Originally posted by bossalinie


    Originally posted by kantseeme


    Originally posted by rdash

     
     

    Vast majority of players treat MMOs as games, not virtual worlds, but it's not because they're spoiled brats. Quite the opposite - most players are adults with full-time jobs and commitments, and they can't afford to waste their entertainment time spending hours working or running in game. This "instant gratification" is reasonable expectation of players who can devote only so much time to gaming, and want to get something out of it. Your idea of fun may be diferent, but it isn't better than theirs.


    If you dont have the time to devote to a MMO then you dont need to play one. Go play skyrim or something.

     Uh, the majority of MMOs created in the past decade all called and would like to have a word with you....

    tell them i dont have time to talk.... im waiting for a REAL MMO to call.

        If your suggestion is followed, you'll never get the call.  Fact it, there is not enough hardcore gamers for any company to cater too and still make a decent enough profit to make and run the game.  It is the casuals that actually keep games afloat and hence the reason that games cater to them more.

    Id bet there are more of us then you realize. Its the reason games like EVE and EQ are still goin. were out there.... and were just biding our time

        And both Eve and EQ have taken some pretty hard bumps lately, but you are right, we will see.  Maybe in a year or five a good (by your definition) game will come out that can really take off.  I'm not holding my breath, but you are welcome too.

    "If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  • BossalinieBossalinie Member UncommonPosts: 724

    Originally posted by kantseeme

    Originally posted by bossalinie

    This is other thread where personal preference is trying to define an MMO.

    I personally am ok with the current model. When I was a kid, I could live in games and could keep up with the Jones. Now, with family and employment, getting 3 hours is putting in work. Are MMOs not for me? The past decade of releases says otherwise.

    They have allowed us to use a microwive to fix a meal rather than make us preheat the stove, boil waters, and prep dinner to get the same results. Does the latter generally taste better? Of course! If I had time to make it, I'd do it every day. The problem lies that I don't have time, and trying to do would only create other time issues. Since there are other options to obtaining my daily diet, the full dinner would go out the window. Eating out and using  the microwave to obtain similar results is enough to satisfy me and to keep me going.

    The industry pretty much went the route of instead of losing gamers, why not create something that caters to their liking. Unfortunately for stove cookers, the microwave/eat-out/hamburger helper idea went viral and others are joining in on the food nuking. People rarely do family full dinners now because preparing the food, cooking each item, and doing dishes is wasted time. Maybe on Saturdays and Sundays... :)

    so on the days you dont really have time to devot to your MMO, play Sonic or something. on the days you have the time, play MMOs. i understand not everyone has time to make a home cooked meal but thats no reason to ONLY eat fast food. And thats the MMos have turned into. A bunch of fast food chains. Sever up the same old garbage.

     Or......

     

     

    I could play the MMO's that have been made to fit my mold, and there sure are a lot of them out there. And you know what they say about one man's trash...

    It's a casual's liquid goooooold-ah.

  • MeltdownMeltdown Member UncommonPosts: 1,183

    Simply put... hardcore and casual gamers have enough time for casual games. Only hardcore gamers have enough time for hardcore games. Which one is more profitable? It's a sad but true reality, look to the indie markets for hardcore since profits don't drive their decisions as much. Like the punk anology you aren't going to find mainstream punk that is liked by the hardcore punk scene, gotta go underground.

    "They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath

  • XiaokiXiaoki Member EpicPosts: 3,823


    Originally posted by Meltdown
    Ahaha the irony of some of the people on the forums. Whether its people clammoring for large-scale PvP then QQing when something like the SWTOR Valor-farm fests happen because its unfair. Or people who complain that society is doomed due to self-centered nature, and then want game developers to make a game catered to them... The irony is strong in him.
     
    OP regardless of the legitimacy of your concerns about the industry and the "dumbing down" effect, you have to see the irony in your statements...
     
    Calling out developers for listening to whiners on the forums and then turning around whining on the forums about the whiners because they aren't making the game you specifically want... 

    Good stuff.


    OP thinks he's some kind of Crusader for the Hardcore when he's actually just a whiney hypocrite.

  • rdashrdash Member Posts: 121

    Originally posted by kantseeme

    Originally posted by rdash

     

    Vast majority of players treat MMOs as games, not virtual worlds, but it's not because they're spoiled brats. Quite the opposite - most players are adults with full-time jobs and commitments, and they can't afford to waste their entertainment time spending hours working or running in game. This "instant gratification" is reasonable expectation of players who can devote only so much time to gaming, and want to get something out of it. Your idea of fun may be diferent, but it isn't better than theirs.


    If you dont have the time to devote to a MMO then you dont need to play one. Go play skyrim or something.

    Or someone can make a game that is both accessible and MMO, and I'll gladly throw my money at them.

    There's no rule that says that if something is MMO, it can't be accessible. If there's someone who can and wants to deliver both, it's only beneficial to market variety.

  • kantseemekantseeme Member Posts: 709

    Originally posted by Praetalus

    Originally posted by WhiteLantern

    I live in an expansive non-virtual world. I cut firewood weekly through the spring and fall (winter sometimes too). I build fences and barns. I raise goats and horses (and a llama even). I have a garden larger than the typical suburban housing lot. I also have a 40hr job in a factory.

    I don't want to do these things in a virtual world. I want to play games. Sometimes, I want to play them with other people.

     

    I understand why some people want sandbox games because I enjoy all of the items I listed above and I'm sure some people can't experience them in the real world. But to say that only sandboxes are true MMOs and everyone else is destroying your sandcastle with their desire for fun gameplay that isn't what you call fun? Grow up.

    Agreed. What I'm seeing is a good ol' fashion showdown between the hardcore and casual gamers. There are people who want to LIVE in an online world... like my brother in law. He has no job and sits in his basement playing games. He hit 50 in TOR in about a week. I'm more like you White, I have a job and a lot going on and I want to get in a few hours with others and have fun. My brother in law plays 10 hours a night... I play about 10 hours a week, with about 7 of those falling  on weekends. 

     

    Neither playstyle is "wrong". It's just a playstyle. It just so happens that casuals gamers are where the money is, so that's where the money's going. Think about it. Hardcore players buy the game and burn out quickly, as they blow through the content and then complain it wasn't hard/long enough and un-sub. Casual players take 6 months to hit level 50 and keep paying the whole time....as a businessperson, where would you put your money?

     

    I'm just saying, this is why things are changing. As the great hunters of old would follow the Buffalo, the businessmen follow the money. Perhaps sad for some, but true nonetheless. Casual gamers don't have time to travel 30 mins to a quest as we may only have an hour to play...lol. So, faster mounts sooner is what happens, smaller cut up worlds with easier travel. Just because that's not fun for you, doesn't mean no one likes it. And we still want MMO's, not CORPG'S.

     

    You could always try your hand at Vanguard? Mortal Online? Darkfall?

    This is wrong. while i will agree that hardcors will blow through content. But the content being made is so easy that the casuals can blow through it almost as fast as the hardcores. The hardcores are the ones that will stick with a game for years as long as the content is worth playing.

     

    when you make content way to easy, people get borde and unsub. and the casuals are the worst for this. there the ones that have ADD. goin from game to game to game to game to..... you get my point. its almost as if MMos today are just through-away games. i preach hardcore but to be honest, i only play about 10 hours a week. maybe 15. and it still only took me 2 weeks to max lvl in RIFT without even batting an eye.

     

    i have more i would like to say about this but i need to get dinner started.

  • fenistilfenistil Member Posts: 3,005

    Originally posted by BadSpock

     

    The instant gratification generation really has completely ruined just about everything.

    Gaming, society, politics, the economy, fast food....

    But it's also their yuppy parents that raised them to be "special and unique snow flakes" and turned them into the self centered little shits they are today.

    [...]

    All for the sake of political correctness.

    /rant off

    THIS.

    +1

     

    ----------------

     

    That's why I stopped playing mmorpg's until I get a game that create virtual world - hopefully ArcheAge will privide that even if in casual-lite version.

     

    Might just check out GW2 of curiosity ,but I think I don't treat this game as mmorpg (even thought it will be - not trying pick a flame - just I have stricter personal definion that what 's considered by majority)

  • kantseemekantseeme Member Posts: 709

    Originally posted by rdash

    Originally posted by kantseeme


    Originally posted by rdash

     

    Vast majority of players treat MMOs as games, not virtual worlds, but it's not because they're spoiled brats. Quite the opposite - most players are adults with full-time jobs and commitments, and they can't afford to waste their entertainment time spending hours working or running in game. This "instant gratification" is reasonable expectation of players who can devote only so much time to gaming, and want to get something out of it. Your idea of fun may be diferent, but it isn't better than theirs.


    If you dont have the time to devote to a MMO then you dont need to play one. Go play skyrim or something.

    Or someone can make a game that is both accessible and MMO, and I'll gladly throw my money at them.

    There's no rule that says that if something is MMO, it can't be accessible. If there's someone who can and wants to deliver both, it's only beneficial to market variety.

    its been tried and failed. you cant make everyone happy in one game. they need to be seperate. theres room for all types of games. but the problem is theres ONLY ONE TYPE BEING MADE ATM!

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