So, why do stats like Resilience (WoW) and Valor / Vengeance (Rift) exist?
Resilience was initially added to discourage people from relying solely on burst (AP/PoM/Pyro) or mindless DoT spam. It made focus-fire and team coordination more important. On the downside, however, it inevitably made PvP more grindy and predictable.
Rift readily adopted the concept because in Rift EVERYTHING is about grind and ONLY about more grind. It's probably the most grindy MMO ever. Even now, when it's already and quite obviously dying, developers don't try to revive it. They only add more and more grind with every major patch. They'll never make valor gear-independent because they suck at making interesting and balanced PvP maps. The only thing they excel at is adding more of the same old withered carrot.
I'm actually getting a fair share of kills in Rift being only P3 and mostly facing better geared opponents, so skill still matters. The problem is that when you're finally P8/HK geared you will very rarely see a fight (not counting duels) where you'll need any skill at all.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
So, why play TF2? TF2 doesn't require 'character progression' to be a compelling PvP experience. Frankly, I'd rather them concentrate on making the PvP experience a good one, rather than cranking out 'special suits for special people' (those who can dedicate 12+ hours a day, 7 days a week to a single game).
Same for PvE. Rather than 'special suits for special people' I'd just rather have a good experience, right from character creation up until the ending. I don't understand this desire to devote your soul to and completely fetishise a game.
Funny thing is that this very topic is brought up so much in the SW:TOR forums, with how many people hate the PvP gear grind. Followed by comments from those who grinded their way to glory and in turn enjoy the system, as it allows them to show their superiority, through brute force (gear advantage).
Confession: I like swtor's carrot on the stick (if that disqualifies me from liking this game too then so be it)
But without pvp gear, what keeps me pvping in guild wars 2?
Not sure how GW2 will do it, but back in the day ...... meaningful objectives and winning used to be a novel way of keeping people interested. Today obviously winning a WZ or BG means jack and hence the carrot on a stick crap thats much easier to design.
It's outstanding how dull some people are. PvP not being a main focus of the game? All gear balanced being bad?
1. PvP is probobly being focused more on than PvE (why do you think you can PvP at lvl 2 and lvl to 80 solely through pvp?)
- They have openly said that they want GW2 to become an esport and will support that.
2. Gear = same is for balancing and is such a good model for competitive PvP
3. I'm guessing there will be ladders. What's the real point of pvping? Getting some shiny new armor or being the best? Ding Ding Ding it's being the best.
My only problems with PvP right now aere the follwing:
-Need TDM 2v2 3v3
-Conquest map being too big
-Right now because of the map size it's better to avoid encounters
-No encounters = boring to watch = no esport and a bit less fun to play
-Thief practicality
- Concept is okay but need stuns/disables to not get raped in melee
Fairly sure you'll see the Thief stuns/disables in the Traits to allow for more flexibility rather than having a weapon set pigeon-holed.
Onto the topic, has anyone who posted in this thread actually PLAYED PvP in the original? Cause if so, you'd know the foundations and the support Anet provided for it. You'd know that progression existed and that time, in the majority of cases, trumped skill, because time lead to a greater unerstanding. I was in a top 100 guild at Factions release, and shit was REAL back then. Evil, War Machine, iQ, QQ, Esoteric Warriors...essentially the best PvP guilds to ever play Guild Wars. And I'm telling you know, there was a world of difference even between my top 100 guild and those guilds. We got murdered. They knew far far more than we did because they played far far more than we did.
Skill > Time is a faulty argument and is largely marketspeak, meaning it's there to serve as a talking point. When people first start playing, sure, skill will shine. But within a week, those who have played more will be better than those who haven't in the VAST majority of instances because you learn the nuances of the game. You learn map layouts, how to use terrain, effective strategies, how your class works with others, how your teammates respond, when to push for kills and when to push for control, etc.
To the OP, if you want the TRULY difficult part of GW2 PvP, you need to find 4 other people to form an Arena team and play the shit out of it, because that's where the true competition and the money/prizes rests. GW's first world championship offered 100k in cash/prizes to the winners...I'd say that's worth competing for. I'm afraid that if your desire is to be the best single player in the game, you're going to have a real difficult time proving so as the hot-joinable (ie no team organization) will be extremely casual friendly and is meant to be, serving as an introduction to the far more difficult Structured play.
Stop saying progression doesn't exist; It does, it's just horizontal. You don't acquire statistically greater gear, but you acquire gear that no one else has and that can't be obtained ANYWHERE other than PvP. Your character will be recognizable on appearance alone. People will literally look at your character and say 'holy shit, it's that dude'. I say that because I've been there, in HA, and seeing people like Leeloof and others. I've been on the receiving end of r12 emotes after a team killed our team. I've been inGvG matches, seen the name of the opponent and nearly shit myself. It's just an entirely different world in Anet's style of PvP. What doesn't exist is Power Creep, and that's an entirely different matter.
If the original serves an any indicator of GW2 PvP, i'd say it will be really really good and extremely competitive. I had a lot of fun with it, just grew past it. But you'll need to find people on your level, otherwise you're likely going to get REALLY frustrated.
Confession: I like swtor's carrot on the stick (if that disqualifies me from liking this game too then so be it)
But without pvp gear, what keeps me pvping in guild wars 2? I am trying to find information but all I see is people saying "Its fun, thats why you should play it!"
I play mmo's to progress a character, I play sc2 or fps' for competitive fun. (cause its a rpg)
Will this game provide the same types of ladders and stat tracking that a fps or a sc2 provides to keep me playing? This is something dearly lacking from swtor and if this game *plans* on having it at release I will be very interested.
Will I be able to get anything but "fun" out of pvp?
(note: I am not asking for pvp gear to own casuals, but I need something to aim for when pvp'ing!)
i think theres a little bit of contradiction there when comparing it to pvp and pvp gear, in mmos like swtor, WoW, Rift, etc, you dont progress your character pvp wise, you just grind your rear end to get the best gear possible to beat everyone, i wouldnt call that progression.
I think GW2 will break that cycle and so far it is for good, lets see when the game launches and find out if its really going to work out. But i do hope it really changes the way we get into pvp and changes the gear grinding...
Confession: I like swtor's carrot on the stick (if that disqualifies me from liking this game too then so be it)
But without pvp gear, what keeps me pvping in guild wars 2? I am trying to find information but all I see is people saying "Its fun, thats why you should play it!"
I play mmo's to progress a character, I play sc2 or fps' for competitive fun. (cause its a rpg)
Will this game provide the same types of ladders and stat tracking that a fps or a sc2 provides to keep me playing? This is something dearly lacking from swtor and if this game *plans* on having it at release I will be very interested.
Will I be able to get anything but "fun" out of pvp?
(note: I am not asking for pvp gear to own casuals, but I need something to aim for when pvp'ing!)
i think theres a little bit of contradiction there when comparing it to pvp and pvp gear, in mmos like swtor, WoW, Rift, etc, you dont progress your character pvp wise, you just grind your rear end to get the best gear possible to beat everyone, i wouldnt call that progression.
I think GW2 will break that cycle and so far it is for good, lets see when the game launches and find out if its really going to work out. But i do hope it really changes the way we get into pvp and changes the gear grinding...
wow arena is about glad titles and rank 1 titles
but nowadays there's a shitload of wintrading going on for rank 1 and ties
But without pvp gear, what keeps me pvping in guild wars 2?
The same thing that kept people PvPing in GW1. Titles, appearance gear / skills and prestige / ladders.
I'm sure there will be other unlockables for GW2 as well.
If you want a carrot on a stick, GW2 really isnt going to be your style, because there isn't one in PvE either. As soon as you hit max level youll have easy access to the best gear in the game. The only reason to do harder dungeons is titles / appearance gear / fun.
Time=Skill to some extent but ofc in a game where it's 8v8 developing teamwork/strats will be important than individual skill hence why that happened
same with 5v5 but to a lesser extent
fer example you can prob pick up a dude that will do roaming and he could fit in the team pretty fast
at the end of my wow "career" i was playing with mlg players lots and I started playing wow at late TBC and ereally didn't THAT much (school)
and don't give me the wow isn't competitive bs
How exactly am I wrong? You just said what I said.
I read on a fan forum (think it was GW2Guru, not sure) that there's something like 2 BILLION possible 'builds' in GW2 when you factor in multiple weapon sets, utility skills and traits. The more you play, the more intricately you will understand those possibilities and how they play together. The more you play, the better you'll get at switching weapons midfight because there isn't a delay on it.
'Fitting in' is one thing, operating at the same level is an entirely different matter. Sure, 4 super stars could take on a new player and still probably do ok. But that doesn't mean that new player is even remotely at the same skill level as the others. The others have perfected their craft while the new player is just learning. The new player can't even begin to touch the wealth of knowledge the veterans will have, and if you don't think THAT is a very large component of skill, I really don't know how to discuss this with you.
Not sure why you said the bit about WoW. I happen to like WoW and do think it's competitive. But it being competitive doesn't mean it's nearly as balanced as PvP in the original GW, which would lead one to believe they've done the same in GW2.
The GW formula should read more as Skill>Gear, not time. But Skill>Time is a more marketable phrase because it plays in with their payment model extremely well. Their payment model is one where you can stop playing the game for 6 months and not be so behind from a GEAR perspective that you're getting roflstomped. Alternatively, the person who HAS played for those 6 months (i.e. Time) will have far more knowledge about the current metagame and any changes made to the game structure. Their skill level will be above the other persons just for those reasons alone.
Time=Skill to some extent but ofc in a game where it's 8v8 developing teamwork/strats will be important than individual skill hence why that happened
same with 5v5 but to a lesser extent
fer example you can prob pick up a dude that will do roaming and he could fit in the team pretty fast
at the end of my wow "career" i was playing with mlg players lots and I started playing wow at late TBC and ereally didn't THAT much (school)
and don't give me the wow isn't competitive bs
How exactly am I wrong? You just said what I said.
I read on a fan forum (think it was GW2Guru, not sure) that there's something like 2 BILLION possible 'builds' in GW2 when you factor in multiple weapon sets, utility skills and traits. The more you play, the more intricately you will understand those possibilities and how they play together. The more you play, the better you'll get at switching weapons midfight because there isn't a delay on it.
'Fitting in' is one thing, operating at the same level is an entirely different matter. Sure, 4 super stars could take on a new player and still probably do ok. But that doesn't mean that new player is even remotely at the same skill level as the others. The others have perfected their craft while the new player is just learning. The new player can't even begin to touch the wealth of knowledge the veterans will have, and if you don't think THAT is a very large component of skill, I really don't know how to discuss this with you.
Not sure why you said the bit about WoW. I happen to like WoW and do think it's competitive. But it being competitive doesn't mean it's nearly as balanced as PvP in the original GW, which would lead one to believe they've done the same in GW2.
The GW formula should read more as Skill>Gear, not time. But Skill>Time is a more marketable phrase because it plays in with their payment model extremely well. Their payment model is one where you can stop playing the game for 6 months and not be so behind from a GEAR perspective that you're getting roflstomped. Alternatively, the person who HAS played for those 6 months (i.e. Time) will have far more knowledge about the current metagame and any changes made to the game structure. Their skill level will be above the other persons just for those reasons alone.
anyways idk how balanced GW1 was but I'm willing to bet that WoW took more skill but that doesn't matter
you misundertood the other part
in GvG and mobas time = skill directly because they requiere mainly team coordination and strats = need lot of time playing togetheer
but in tdm and conquest individual skill matters lots which is why time=skill is less of a factor and someone who is not a veteran could be better than a veteran
You'll get plenty of rewards for being excellent in PVP.
None of them will help you kill others more easily once you have them.
It never made sense to me why players should get advantages over other players in PvP. WOW did it because the hardcore raiders had the best gear and stomped others. They added resilience, which is fine, but made the mistake of letting some players have much better gear than others in PVP. It's made them money, but it's not something I support. I used to compete in FPS clan matches because they were fun and we got ranked higher in the bracket by winning.
You'll get plenty of rewards for being excellent in PVP.
None of them will help you kill others more easily once you have them.
It never made sense to me why players should get advantages over other players in PvP. WOW did it because the hardcore raiders had the best gear and stomped others. They added resilience, which is fine, but made the mistake of letting some players have much better gear than others in PVP. It's made them money, but it's not something I support. I used to compete in FPS clan matches because they were fun and we got ranked higher in the bracket by winning.
no
getting good gear in PvP was very easy I mean cmon 2.2k
in tbc getting shoulders was hard for some though some people were glad without ever getting shouldeers
I played GvG at a high level in GW. I played PvP in WoW. You never PvP'd in GW but have somehow decided it's more competitive? That makes sense.
There's always going to be freak occurences. But that one savant who starts new and beats a veteran player doesn't validate the claim.
I mean really, think about what you're saying. Someone who has 5, 10, 15 years in a field, on average (well above average, most likely) will have more skill than someone new to that field.
I played GvG at a high level in GW. I played PvP in WoW. You never PvP'd in GW but have somehow decided it's more competitive? That makes sense.
There's always going to be freak occurences. But that one savant who starts new and beats a veteran player doesn't validate the claim.
I mean really, think about what you're saying. Someone who has 5, 10, 15 years in a field, on average (well above average, most likely) will have more skill than someone new to that field.
Ofc, but like I said I picked up wow late BC and by s6 I was glad and s7 high glad s8 I played pservs for fun and played with mlg players all the time and people who still are competitive at pvp and dominated there
Time spent doing something a lot of the times increases your skill. I've been playing pool for ages. Someone who has never played the game will not beat me. MMOs just give you better gear to further widen the gap ;D
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
anyways idk how balanced GW1 was but I'm willing to bet that WoW took more skill but that doesn't matter
you misundertood the other part
in GvG and mobas time = skill directly because they requiere mainly team coordination and strats = need lot of time playing togetheer
but in tdm and conquest individual skill matters lots which is why time=skill is less of a factor and someone who is not a veteran could be better than a veteran
You would lose that bet. GW1 was more skill based than WoW could ever dream to be.
But I do enjoy the gear race, which I usaully win.
SWTOR is not competitive. if it was I wouldnt even be looking at other mmo's. The gear grind is a bit hard (although now nerfed to pieces) and I enjoyed that but they still have no rankings or arenas.
GW2 is looking to be competitive without a main staple of mmo's in the past, which is wierd.
when a MMO is giving me a different character to play in 5v5 objective game play, it is no longer a competitve mmo. it is now literally a moba.
Maybe my thread should read: Why play gw2 when dota 2 is coming out with more prize money tournaments?
This is only for pvp, which I will play exclusively. PVE is boring to me and after public quests in WAR I see the pve in gw2 to be the same kind of idea with a bit more flair. (ooo the town isnt usable anymore? good thing they sell level 5 gear.)
I just dont see how this is now considered a mmo on the pvp side with no pvp gear progression, and only titles and stuff..
even LoL has levels with new skills and runes you have to grind...
this is in response to multiple posts, thats why it probably reads choppy.
And again, it has been said that you get gear in WvWvW. So there will be gear progression? I dont see why they would give gear in pvp if it didnt have stats after saying something along the lines of "you will get gear you NEED entirely through pvp as well".
Oh and all of you are whining about pvp gear, whether you think you are or not. Just as I am probably whining about lack of pvp gear, even though I assume I am not.
also, the original title is: why is no pvp gear good? I believe the answer that most of you have said is because you lack the time or desire to "grind" it. is this wrong?
edit: spelling and stuff
Guild Wars 1 had $100,000 prize money tourneys as well so..... yea....
Confession: I like swtor's carrot on the stick (if that disqualifies me from liking this game too then so be it)
But without pvp gear, what keeps me pvping in guild wars 2? I am trying to find information but all I see is people saying "Its fun, thats why you should play it!"
I play mmo's to progress a character, I play sc2 or fps' for competitive fun. (cause its a rpg)
Will this game provide the same types of ladders and stat tracking that a fps or a sc2 provides to keep me playing? This is something dearly lacking from swtor and if this game *plans* on having it at release I will be very interested.
Will I be able to get anything but "fun" out of pvp?
(note: I am not asking for pvp gear to own casuals, but I need something to aim for when pvp'ing!)
Simple answer, no GW2 will not have carrots on a stick and will not contain pregression based on gear inflation, so in all likely hood this game wont be for you.
I think its great a game will get rid of the "epeen" and "hardcore" and concentrate on things that make this genre great. Not stupid things like raiding, gear progression, legendarys which only 1 person can have, or other elitist forms of differentiation.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Confession: I like swtor's carrot on the stick (if that disqualifies me from liking this game too then so be it)
But without pvp gear, what keeps me pvping in guild wars 2? I am trying to find information but all I see is people saying "Its fun, thats why you should play it!"
I play mmo's to progress a character, I play sc2 or fps' for competitive fun. (cause its a rpg)
Will this game provide the same types of ladders and stat tracking that a fps or a sc2 provides to keep me playing? This is something dearly lacking from swtor and if this game *plans* on having it at release I will be very interested.
Will I be able to get anything but "fun" out of pvp?
(note: I am not asking for pvp gear to own casuals, but I need something to aim for when pvp'ing!)
Simple answer, no GW2 will not have carrots on a stick and will not contain pregression based on gear inflation, so in all likely hood this game wont be for you.
I think its great a game will get rid of the "epeen" and "hardcore" and concentrate on things that make this genre great. Not stupid things like raiding, gear progression, legendarys which only 1 person can have, or other elitist forms of differentiation.
There will always be elitist forms of differentiation, whether it be kill count or number of matches won, it will always be there. There is no getting rid of that but gear grind and the whole stat-wise differentiation is definitely gone.
OP: You've played SWTOR and yet you are still asking why having no PVP gear is good?
I thought that game made it pretty blatantly clear why PVP gear ruins PVP. Hint: Try PVP'ing in the level 50 bracket without expertise lately?
Stupid dev's turning PVP into mindless gear grinds... like the PVE grind wasn't enough for them?
Bring on GW2!
No to your first question, because I have 690 expertise (about 3 pieces away fom max). I find that you can go get the gear the same way I did, how is that not balanced? Oh right, because rng also hurts you somehow, or whatever other whiny things you guys have to say. Yet you accuse me of whining.. odd.
because you are a casual who wants to spend 20 minutes a day playing and expect to be as good as me in a mmo is a joke. This isnt the fps genre. With gw2 its taking a step in that direction (casuals rejoice!)
When I am older I will probably change my stance, but as a college student I like competitive gear races. Sorry you dont.
Basically you believe that gear trumps skill. You basically stated as much with that little rant. If you think playing a video game 16 hours a day in order to have better gear then "us noobs" is what makes you good then you are gods gift to gear prgression based MMO's and your disgusting show of l33tness is the exact reason why I hope people like you do not play GW2. Stay the F*** out f my game and I promise you I will stay the hell out of yours, deal?
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
because you are a casual who wants to spend 20 minutes a day playing and expect to be as good as me in a mmo is a joke. This isnt the fps genre. With gw2 its taking a step in that direction (casuals rejoice!)
When I am older I will probably change my stance, but as a college student I like competitive gear races. Sorry you dont.
MMORPGs allow no-skill players to compensate for their suckage by competing in gear-races. They let you replace your lack-of-skill with gear proportional to the amount of free time you have. The less of a life you have outside of a video game, the more of your lack-of-skill you can replace with gear.
And that's a great system for people with no school, no job, and no reflexes. Play the other MMORPGs and convert your hours and hours of free time into the MMORPG equivalent of "skill": GEAR.
Some people want an MMORPG-style combat system for PVP that actually values skill though. Can't wait for GW2! If you're trying to do well in school, or have a job, or have a family -- AND you have good reflexes and critical thinking -- then GW2 is the game for you!
Comments
Resilience was initially added to discourage people from relying solely on burst (AP/PoM/Pyro) or mindless DoT spam. It made focus-fire and team coordination more important. On the downside, however, it inevitably made PvP more grindy and predictable.
Rift readily adopted the concept because in Rift EVERYTHING is about grind and ONLY about more grind. It's probably the most grindy MMO ever. Even now, when it's already and quite obviously dying, developers don't try to revive it. They only add more and more grind with every major patch. They'll never make valor gear-independent because they suck at making interesting and balanced PvP maps. The only thing they excel at is adding more of the same old withered carrot.
I'm actually getting a fair share of kills in Rift being only P3 and mostly facing better geared opponents, so skill still matters. The problem is that when you're finally P8/HK geared you will very rarely see a fight (not counting duels) where you'll need any skill at all.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
GW2 will have "social" pvp-gear.
@OP
So, why play TF2? TF2 doesn't require 'character progression' to be a compelling PvP experience. Frankly, I'd rather them concentrate on making the PvP experience a good one, rather than cranking out 'special suits for special people' (those who can dedicate 12+ hours a day, 7 days a week to a single game).
Same for PvE. Rather than 'special suits for special people' I'd just rather have a good experience, right from character creation up until the ending. I don't understand this desire to devote your soul to and completely fetishise a game.
Funny thing is that this very topic is brought up so much in the SW:TOR forums, with how many people hate the PvP gear grind. Followed by comments from those who grinded their way to glory and in turn enjoy the system, as it allows them to show their superiority, through brute force (gear advantage).
Not sure how GW2 will do it, but back in the day ...... meaningful objectives and winning used to be a novel way of keeping people interested. Today obviously winning a WZ or BG means jack and hence the carrot on a stick crap thats much easier to design.
It's outstanding how dull some people are. PvP not being a main focus of the game? All gear balanced being bad?
1. PvP is probobly being focused more on than PvE (why do you think you can PvP at lvl 2 and lvl to 80 solely through pvp?)
- They have openly said that they want GW2 to become an esport and will support that.
2. Gear = same is for balancing and is such a good model for competitive PvP
3. I'm guessing there will be ladders. What's the real point of pvping? Getting some shiny new armor or being the best? Ding Ding Ding it's being the best.
My only problems with PvP right now aere the follwing:
-Need TDM 2v2 3v3
-Conquest map being too big
-Right now because of the map size it's better to avoid encounters
-No encounters = boring to watch = no esport and a bit less fun to play
-Thief practicality
- Concept is okay but need stuns/disables to not get raped in melee
Fairly sure you'll see the Thief stuns/disables in the Traits to allow for more flexibility rather than having a weapon set pigeon-holed.
Onto the topic, has anyone who posted in this thread actually PLAYED PvP in the original? Cause if so, you'd know the foundations and the support Anet provided for it. You'd know that progression existed and that time, in the majority of cases, trumped skill, because time lead to a greater unerstanding. I was in a top 100 guild at Factions release, and shit was REAL back then. Evil, War Machine, iQ, QQ, Esoteric Warriors...essentially the best PvP guilds to ever play Guild Wars. And I'm telling you know, there was a world of difference even between my top 100 guild and those guilds. We got murdered. They knew far far more than we did because they played far far more than we did.
Skill > Time is a faulty argument and is largely marketspeak, meaning it's there to serve as a talking point. When people first start playing, sure, skill will shine. But within a week, those who have played more will be better than those who haven't in the VAST majority of instances because you learn the nuances of the game. You learn map layouts, how to use terrain, effective strategies, how your class works with others, how your teammates respond, when to push for kills and when to push for control, etc.
To the OP, if you want the TRULY difficult part of GW2 PvP, you need to find 4 other people to form an Arena team and play the shit out of it, because that's where the true competition and the money/prizes rests. GW's first world championship offered 100k in cash/prizes to the winners...I'd say that's worth competing for. I'm afraid that if your desire is to be the best single player in the game, you're going to have a real difficult time proving so as the hot-joinable (ie no team organization) will be extremely casual friendly and is meant to be, serving as an introduction to the far more difficult Structured play.
Stop saying progression doesn't exist; It does, it's just horizontal. You don't acquire statistically greater gear, but you acquire gear that no one else has and that can't be obtained ANYWHERE other than PvP. Your character will be recognizable on appearance alone. People will literally look at your character and say 'holy shit, it's that dude'. I say that because I've been there, in HA, and seeing people like Leeloof and others. I've been on the receiving end of r12 emotes after a team killed our team. I've been inGvG matches, seen the name of the opponent and nearly shit myself. It's just an entirely different world in Anet's style of PvP. What doesn't exist is Power Creep, and that's an entirely different matter.
If the original serves an any indicator of GW2 PvP, i'd say it will be really really good and extremely competitive. I had a lot of fun with it, just grew past it. But you'll need to find people on your level, otherwise you're likely going to get REALLY frustrated.
i think theres a little bit of contradiction there when comparing it to pvp and pvp gear, in mmos like swtor, WoW, Rift, etc, you dont progress your character pvp wise, you just grind your rear end to get the best gear possible to beat everyone, i wouldnt call that progression.
I think GW2 will break that cycle and so far it is for good, lets see when the game launches and find out if its really going to work out. But i do hope it really changes the way we get into pvp and changes the gear grinding...
@Noxy
wrong
Time=Skill to some extent but ofc in a game where it's 8v8 developing teamwork/strats will be important than individual skill hence why that happened
same with 5v5 but to a lesser extent
fer example you can prob pick up a dude that will do roaming and he could fit in the team pretty fast
at the end of my wow "career" i was playing with mlg players lots and I started playing wow at late TBC and ereally didn't THAT much (school)
and don't give me the wow isn't competitive bs
wow arena is about glad titles and rank 1 titles
but nowadays there's a shitload of wintrading going on for rank 1 and ties
The same thing that kept people PvPing in GW1. Titles, appearance gear / skills and prestige / ladders.
I'm sure there will be other unlockables for GW2 as well.
If you want a carrot on a stick, GW2 really isnt going to be your style, because there isn't one in PvE either. As soon as you hit max level youll have easy access to the best gear in the game. The only reason to do harder dungeons is titles / appearance gear / fun.
anyways idk how balanced GW1 was but I'm willing to bet that WoW took more skill but that doesn't matter
you misundertood the other part
in GvG and mobas time = skill directly because they requiere mainly team coordination and strats = need lot of time playing togetheer
but in tdm and conquest individual skill matters lots which is why time=skill is less of a factor and someone who is not a veteran could be better than a veteran
It never made sense to me why players should get advantages over other players in PvP. WOW did it because the hardcore raiders had the best gear and stomped others. They added resilience, which is fine, but made the mistake of letting some players have much better gear than others in PVP. It's made them money, but it's not something I support. I used to compete in FPS clan matches because they were fun and we got ranked higher in the bracket by winning.
no
getting good gear in PvP was very easy I mean cmon 2.2k
in tbc getting shoulders was hard for some though some people were glad without ever getting shouldeers
So let's see.
I played GvG at a high level in GW. I played PvP in WoW. You never PvP'd in GW but have somehow decided it's more competitive? That makes sense.
There's always going to be freak occurences. But that one savant who starts new and beats a veteran player doesn't validate the claim.
I mean really, think about what you're saying. Someone who has 5, 10, 15 years in a field, on average (well above average, most likely) will have more skill than someone new to that field.
Ofc, but like I said I picked up wow late BC and by s6 I was glad and s7 high glad s8 I played pservs for fun and played with mlg players all the time and people who still are competitive at pvp and dominated there
(s5 was dumb as a warr)
Time spent doing something a lot of the times increases your skill. I've been playing pool for ages. Someone who has never played the game will not beat me. MMOs just give you better gear to further widen the gap ;D
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
You would lose that bet. GW1 was more skill based than WoW could ever dream to be.
Guild Wars 1 had $100,000 prize money tourneys as well so..... yea....
This is not a game.
Actually I might correct myself - there IS pvp-armor. But once max level you will get only one set. And thats it. No stats upgrade, just visual.
Simple answer, no GW2 will not have carrots on a stick and will not contain pregression based on gear inflation, so in all likely hood this game wont be for you.
I think its great a game will get rid of the "epeen" and "hardcore" and concentrate on things that make this genre great. Not stupid things like raiding, gear progression, legendarys which only 1 person can have, or other elitist forms of differentiation.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
There will always be elitist forms of differentiation, whether it be kill count or number of matches won, it will always be there. There is no getting rid of that but gear grind and the whole stat-wise differentiation is definitely gone.
This is not a game.
Basically you believe that gear trumps skill. You basically stated as much with that little rant. If you think playing a video game 16 hours a day in order to have better gear then "us noobs" is what makes you good then you are gods gift to gear prgression based MMO's and your disgusting show of l33tness is the exact reason why I hope people like you do not play GW2. Stay the F*** out f my game and I promise you I will stay the hell out of yours, deal?
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
because you are a casual who wants to spend 20 minutes a day playing and expect to be as good as me in a mmo is a joke. This isnt the fps genre. With gw2 its taking a step in that direction (casuals rejoice!)
When I am older I will probably change my stance, but as a college student I like competitive gear races. Sorry you dont.
MMORPGs allow no-skill players to compensate for their suckage by competing in gear-races. They let you replace your lack-of-skill with gear proportional to the amount of free time you have. The less of a life you have outside of a video game, the more of your lack-of-skill you can replace with gear.
And that's a great system for people with no school, no job, and no reflexes. Play the other MMORPGs and convert your hours and hours of free time into the MMORPG equivalent of "skill": GEAR.
Some people want an MMORPG-style combat system for PVP that actually values skill though. Can't wait for GW2! If you're trying to do well in school, or have a job, or have a family -- AND you have good reflexes and critical thinking -- then GW2 is the game for you!