Ok, world pvp isn't really happening much atm. Part of the reason for that is because the worlds are so FREAKIN BIG later on and questzones are different.
Honestly, how you can not feel like you're travelling is beyond me. The early worlds are the size of large zones in other games.
On Tatooine, Alderaan, Hoth, Voss, Ilum you can easily spend 15 minutes or more on your speeder travelling through wide open landscapes in order to get to that heroic quest you're doing with 3 others.
And there are a lot of group quests, many more so than even vanilla WoW had.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Not sure why a seamless world would mean that someone would sub, for me, to subscribe to an MMO it's down to content updates/replayability (excluding expansions). So yeah, not sure what the world being seamless has to do with that.
Originally posted by Plasmicredx Originally posted by lizardbonesOriginally posted by Plasmicredx Originally posted by lizardbonesThere are no MMORPG based on the nitpicky details that people want to use to justify their dislike of SWToR.
Dark Age of Camelot was seamless except for zoning into battlegrounds, dungeons, and the capital city but all of which were all persistent, aside from different servers. Most people are lenient about servers which is very important to note. They aren't all perfection obsessed. They have good reasons for their own personal feelings just like you have your own.
But the zoning existed. "OMG THERE'S CONSTANT LOADING SCREENS DAOC ISN'T AN MMORPG!"
Nitpicking details based on personal opinions.
Which is fine. Right up until someone decides that their personal opinion is an objective fact and that everyone else needs to have the same opinion. There is a difference between saying, "SWToR is not an MMORPG because it has loading screens" and saying, "I really dislike loading screens, it makes SWToR not feel like an MMORPG". The OP said "I feel" many times throughout their post. Not seeing where they claimed their word was the truth.
I may have created my own thread based on what was implied by the OPs thread title.
:-)
It was early and I hadn't finished my coffee.
Oh lol. Maybe your posts will work like a Ward Spell and ward away anyone who tries to make people believe their point of view.
Personally I can deal with some intancing and zoning without it bothering me at all - LOTRO would be an example of that. in LOTRO all individual zones are instanced, along with some of the epic quests, dungeons and some buildings also. Vanguard was awesome with zero instancing of anything at all, but that's another story.
SWTOR - however, takes instancing to a whole new level. Not only does it have the instance types that I listed LOTRO as having, but it also has shards / instanced copies of each zone. PLUS, each zone often times even has separate mini zones that are instanced also BEYOND just for instanced quests (like Coruscant for example). It is just way way too much. I think the ultimate killer, however, is the copies / sharding of zones. No place ever felt busy when I was playing, and with the stale game world, you need players to make it feel alive.
have to agree..vanguard is how a open game should be made..and what suprises me more is that game was released 4 yrs ago..surely to god there is the tecnology today to do the same..i used to love running into a dungeon with a group only to find another grp in there..then it was a case of who would get to the boss first.i,m afraid SWTOR is everything that is wrong with an mmo ..it brings nothing new to the table at all..apart from the voice overs..which i have to say are pretty good imo..but that wont save it from the dreaded drop in numbers like most mmo's go through.i could'nt last in the game and didnt..load screens every 2 secs..it did my head in.
kevjards yes there is ,and it is called donnybrooks (free from microsoft)and other imaginative ways have been done with success check aika or argos online ,but given you got more choices it is more a 500 vs 500 game then 1000 vs 1000
but corp tend to stay on well threaded path wouldnt want issue!and when you use an engine it remove al lot of your flexibility because someone else decided for you want you wanted as we know gamer view of a mmo and dragon nest view of a mmo differ!
but blizzard is always pushing the envloppe so is ccp,because 1 they can permit to with all the trillion of $ they made over the years and 2 why not instead of releasing a new game that might never pass the million mark .this is a bit more complex for them but add shelf life to their title.and now that 64 bit is being tested in a seperate sever for anyone we should have news soon on how it fare!
Originally posted by kevjards Originally posted by Margulis Personally I can deal with some intancing and zoning without it bothering me at all - LOTRO would be an example of that. in LOTRO all individual zones are instanced, along with some of the epic quests, dungeons and some buildings also. Vanguard was awesome with zero instancing of anything at all, but that's another story. SWTOR - however, takes instancing to a whole new level. Not only does it have the instance types that I listed LOTRO as having, but it also has shards / instanced copies of each zone. PLUS, each zone often times even has separate mini zones that are instanced also BEYOND just for instanced quests (like Coruscant for example). It is just way way too much. I think the ultimate killer, however, is the copies / sharding of zones. No place ever felt busy when I was playing, and with the stale game world, you need players to make it feel alive.
have to agree..vanguard is how a open game should be made..and what suprises me more is that game was released 4 yrs ago..surely to god there is the tecnology today to do the same..i used to love running into a dungeon with a group only to find another grp in there..then it was a case of who would get to the boss first.i,m afraid SWTOR is everything that is wrong with an mmo ..it brings nothing new to the table at all..apart from the voice overs..which i have to say are pretty good imo..but that wont save it from the dreaded drop in numbers like most mmo's go through.i could'nt last in the game and didnt..load screens every 2 secs..it did my head in.
Where are people getting loading screens every 2 seconds...or even 'all the time'? Seriously. I get one when I boot the game up and then one when I'm done on a world which takes a couple days. No loading screens for my green door instances or anything else. Where are all these loading screens coming from?
As far as technology goes, the tech certainly exists, but it's been awhile since people wanted another group racing them for the boss. More likely what they don't want is to clear the path to the boss, only the have the group that was quietly following them take the boss kill from them.
In SWToR, a lot of the personal instances are necessary for the personal story to make sense. Your Jedi/Sith master has one apprentice, and that apprentice is you. There shouldn't be 6 other people standing around learning from your Jedi/Sith master. It makes sense for the style of game...but there aren't any loading screen for those personal instances...you just run in there and continue your story.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I have to agree. I don't mind the instancing so much but the constant loading screens are killing this game for me.
What constant loading screens. You're trying to make people think that everytime you do anything on a planet you have a loading screen to go trough like AOC. When entering any building or mission or going from East to West to North and South on any planet you zero loading screens.
Now, traveling from planet to planet you have a loading screen which is to be expected. TOR is not a game that has everything on one planet, like 99% of other games. The loading screens are not anymore from 15 sec to the most i had, which was around 40 sec.
Stop trying to make a big issue out of nothing. i have to ask, why the hell are you planet jumping so much.
What I liked about WoW's world was all the zones are connected seamlessly and everything was seamless in the world. Even the instances that were in the game you had to travel to and they were built into the world to make them feel part of it. For example you had to run through a cave system to get to Dead Mines and you could see the exit from STV.
However with SWTOR all the content seems to be instanced like you'll run through green doors all the time. The instances are all accessed via the station and it makes it all feel very gamey and like Guild Wars where you have this hub and then you go and do missions with a small group. Even on the planets I never see more that 60-80 people that are in them and then I only see like one of two actual people of them. I know WoW is like that now but SWTOR has just released, it shouldn't be so poorly populated.
I just cannot stand it because everything is so instanced and split up like EQ2 or AoC that they just don't feel like worlds and I cannot justify paying for them. I just feel like I can get that experience from any multiplayer game because really all the gameplay is in small zones or battlegrounds. The only difference is instead of a server browser you join games from a hub like GW.
I want that world feeling and I want the MASSIVE from the MMO, yet there is nothing massive about it.
I agree with the OP, To me first and foremost the game world must resemble some sort of world in an MMO. A collection of zones is not a world. And exponentially worst is is instances of the zones. The first M in MMO, is massive, theres nothing massive about a collection of instanced zones. Otherwise is feels like a single player experience. When I say single player experince I am not refering to solo play in this case. Very few single player games give you a world to play in.
The 2nd thing that makes an MMO for me is the second M in MMO. Multiplayer you should have to play with others. Otherwise its a single player game online. This time when I say single player game I am refering to solo play.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
honestly swtor way of doing so far is a good compromise where it MIGHT hit a snag is at world raid pvpve or world pvp then they might have issue cause player will want a fair number,so far there are no incentive to pvp anywhere aside the instanced stuff .
so for now no statisfaction of casual player getting into a brawl in outlaws den ,but then if we re honest if youy want to organise something annouce it a bit in advance and i tell you player will show up .
but it would be easier if bio made avail event happen for world stuff.but the way the game is made they thaught about it so i ll give them time to elaborate cause lets face it what have we achieved so far ,aside from personal growth not mouch i havent had to war vs the the republic galaxy mostly small skirmish since empire barelly trust me!so this means once you are properly trusted etc something in the various worlds happen in the futur .as we know the whole sith army gets anihilated in the 3000 year period so we can forsee lot of planet wide wars.wich we havent met yet !legacy is probably part of that skeem.
I know this game is an MMO to many people, however it just doesn't feel like one to me and it doesn't feel worth a subscription because it lacks that world feeling.
I've gone from wanting open world/seamless to wanting more instancing because the a$$hats in game. Yeah...you all spoiled it. You who ninja mobs, or resource nodes, or glowies....you're a plague on open world game play. So I'm done with you. Bring on more instancing.
Why don't you play singleplayer games with co-op then?, that's what you are saying right?
Then swtor is perfect because it's both. See that's the thing you want to use that co-op as a derogatory term and it's not, It's just a design choice you don't like.
I'm not using co-op as an derogatory term at all acually I like plenty of co-op games but here is the deal with the quoted post, he want to play a MMO by himself or with a small group of irl friends so you dont have to *gasp* run into other players in *gasp* a MMO.
The positive thing about complaining, ranting and bashing SWTOR is that it is the same names over and over pursuing all those threads and starting numerous new ones
Nowhere is there a definition of what an MMO actually is. As humans we just feel this need to categorise everything into strict genres and that can sometimes be an error. EQ and WoW were MMOs, a fact everyone would agree with, yet they weren't seamless.
If anything it is the words that make up MMORPG that state what it should be in essence:
Massively
Multiplayer
Online
Role
Playing
Game
Star Wars is that, so it's an MMO like EQ and WoW.
Now if you wanted to further define the genre you could state games that are seamless and persistent MMOs. The game might not fit in there...that's a personal feeling.
Personally I wouldn't say it's not seamless. The worlds are seamless but the galaxy could not possibly be. TOR is also persistent, in that it's always there. The only time it's not is when there's downtime, and all MMOs have that.
SW:TOR is massively multiplayer because...?
Just because you connect to the same central server does not make it massively multiplayer imo. If it was then Diablo would be as well. This game is much more instanced than EQ and WoW, as much as STO I would say, and it is to such an extent that it prevents massively numbers of people to interact in any meaningful way.
But people can connect in massive ways. You just need to head to the Imperial Fleet to see 200 people all buzzing about in one zone.
Also it depends on your idea of 'massive' in the genre. To me 'massive' in a computer game doesn't have to be dozens of dozens or hundreds, it can be 20 or 50. That is certainly more than in most games of any genre.
Yes the game is instanced but I would never say it is to the detriment of the game. It is instanced in to small story based areas for small groups or your class story line, and they do not dampen down the overall massive feel of the game in any way. The solo storyline is not meant to be taken on by more than one person and you can still chat with the zone anyway.
Let's be honest here and say that your signature alone says how you feel, or want to feel about this game. Be honest with yourself rather than post anything to make this game look bad.
I know where you're coming from. I hated Rift with a passion and I put some serious bile in to dissing the game at every oppurtunity I could get. Where did it get me? No where. The game is still going strong and people still like it. Accept that people like SWTOR and that it's not going away. It's a good game at heart. Maybe it doesn't change the genre to your liking. Maybe it doesn't enhance the genre as fully as it could have. It's still a good game, well made and enjoyable.
Being bitter gets you nowhere. Trust me on that. Enjoy a game for what it's worth and move on. It's my MMO attitude now.
Comments
Ok, world pvp isn't really happening much atm. Part of the reason for that is because the worlds are so FREAKIN BIG later on and questzones are different.
Honestly, how you can not feel like you're travelling is beyond me. The early worlds are the size of large zones in other games.
On Tatooine, Alderaan, Hoth, Voss, Ilum you can easily spend 15 minutes or more on your speeder travelling through wide open landscapes in order to get to that heroic quest you're doing with 3 others.
And there are a lot of group quests, many more so than even vanilla WoW had.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Not sure why a seamless world would mean that someone would sub, for me, to subscribe to an MMO it's down to content updates/replayability (excluding expansions). So yeah, not sure what the world being seamless has to do with that.
Can't but help think OP is a troll.
Dark Age of Camelot was seamless except for zoning into battlegrounds, dungeons, and the capital city but all of which were all persistent, aside from different servers. Most people are lenient about servers which is very important to note. They aren't all perfection obsessed. They have good reasons for their own personal feelings just like you have your own.
But the zoning existed. "OMG THERE'S CONSTANT LOADING SCREENS DAOC ISN'T AN MMORPG!"
Nitpicking details based on personal opinions.
Which is fine. Right up until someone decides that their personal opinion is an objective fact and that everyone else needs to have the same opinion. There is a difference between saying, "SWToR is not an MMORPG because it has loading screens" and saying, "I really dislike loading screens, it makes SWToR not feel like an MMORPG".
The OP said "I feel" many times throughout their post. Not seeing where they claimed their word was the truth.
I may have created my own thread based on what was implied by the OPs thread title.
:-)
It was early and I hadn't finished my coffee.
Oh lol. Maybe your posts will work like a Ward Spell and ward away anyone who tries to make people believe their point of view.
have to agree..vanguard is how a open game should be made..and what suprises me more is that game was released 4 yrs ago..surely to god there is the tecnology today to do the same..i used to love running into a dungeon with a group only to find another grp in there..then it was a case of who would get to the boss first.i,m afraid SWTOR is everything that is wrong with an mmo ..it brings nothing new to the table at all..apart from the voice overs..which i have to say are pretty good imo..but that wont save it from the dreaded drop in numbers like most mmo's go through.i could'nt last in the game and didnt..load screens every 2 secs..it did my head in.
kevjards yes there is ,and it is called donnybrooks (free from microsoft)and other imaginative ways have been done with success check aika or argos online ,but given you got more choices it is more a 500 vs 500 game then 1000 vs 1000
but corp tend to stay on well threaded path wouldnt want issue!and when you use an engine it remove al lot of your flexibility because someone else decided for you want you wanted as we know gamer view of a mmo and dragon nest view of a mmo differ!
but blizzard is always pushing the envloppe so is ccp,because 1 they can permit to with all the trillion of $ they made over the years and 2 why not instead of releasing a new game that might never pass the million mark .this is a bit more complex for them but add shelf life to their title.and now that 64 bit is being tested in a seperate sever for anyone we should have news soon on how it fare!
Where are people getting loading screens every 2 seconds...or even 'all the time'? Seriously. I get one when I boot the game up and then one when I'm done on a world which takes a couple days. No loading screens for my green door instances or anything else. Where are all these loading screens coming from?
As far as technology goes, the tech certainly exists, but it's been awhile since people wanted another group racing them for the boss. More likely what they don't want is to clear the path to the boss, only the have the group that was quietly following them take the boss kill from them.
In SWToR, a lot of the personal instances are necessary for the personal story to make sense. Your Jedi/Sith master has one apprentice, and that apprentice is you. There shouldn't be 6 other people standing around learning from your Jedi/Sith master. It makes sense for the style of game...but there aren't any loading screen for those personal instances...you just run in there and continue your story.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
What constant loading screens. You're trying to make people think that everytime you do anything on a planet you have a loading screen to go trough like AOC. When entering any building or mission or going from East to West to North and South on any planet you zero loading screens.
Now, traveling from planet to planet you have a loading screen which is to be expected. TOR is not a game that has everything on one planet, like 99% of other games. The loading screens are not anymore from 15 sec to the most i had, which was around 40 sec.
Stop trying to make a big issue out of nothing. i have to ask, why the hell are you planet jumping so much.
What I liked about WoW's world was all the zones are connected seamlessly and everything was seamless in the world. Even the instances that were in the game you had to travel to and they were built into the world to make them feel part of it. For example you had to run through a cave system to get to Dead Mines and you could see the exit from STV.
However with SWTOR all the content seems to be instanced like you'll run through green doors all the time. The instances are all accessed via the station and it makes it all feel very gamey and like Guild Wars where you have this hub and then you go and do missions with a small group. Even on the planets I never see more that 60-80 people that are in them and then I only see like one of two actual people of them. I know WoW is like that now but SWTOR has just released, it shouldn't be so poorly populated.
I just cannot stand it because everything is so instanced and split up like EQ2 or AoC that they just don't feel like worlds and I cannot justify paying for them. I just feel like I can get that experience from any multiplayer game because really all the gameplay is in small zones or battlegrounds. The only difference is instead of a server browser you join games from a hub like GW.
I want that world feeling and I want the MASSIVE from the MMO, yet there is nothing massive about it.
I agree with the OP, To me first and foremost the game world must resemble some sort of world in an MMO. A collection of zones is not a world. And exponentially worst is is instances of the zones. The first M in MMO, is massive, theres nothing massive about a collection of instanced zones. Otherwise is feels like a single player experience. When I say single player experince I am not refering to solo play in this case. Very few single player games give you a world to play in.
The 2nd thing that makes an MMO for me is the second M in MMO. Multiplayer you should have to play with others. Otherwise its a single player game online. This time when I say single player game I am refering to solo play.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
honestly swtor way of doing so far is a good compromise where it MIGHT hit a snag is at world raid pvpve or world pvp then they might have issue cause player will want a fair number,so far there are no incentive to pvp anywhere aside the instanced stuff .
so for now no statisfaction of casual player getting into a brawl in outlaws den ,but then if we re honest if youy want to organise something annouce it a bit in advance and i tell you player will show up .
but it would be easier if bio made avail event happen for world stuff.but the way the game is made they thaught about it so i ll give them time to elaborate cause lets face it what have we achieved so far ,aside from personal growth not mouch i havent had to war vs the the republic galaxy mostly small skirmish since empire barelly trust me!so this means once you are properly trusted etc something in the various worlds happen in the futur .as we know the whole sith army gets anihilated in the 3000 year period so we can forsee lot of planet wide wars.wich we havent met yet !legacy is probably part of that skeem.
got to be patient my friend !
I know this game is an MMO to many people, however it just doesn't feel like one to me and it doesn't feel worth a subscription because it lacks that world feeling.
I'm not using co-op as an derogatory term at all acually I like plenty of co-op games but here is the deal with the quoted post, he want to play a MMO by himself or with a small group of irl friends so you dont have to *gasp* run into other players in *gasp* a MMO.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
The positive thing about complaining, ranting and bashing SWTOR is that it is the same names over and over pursuing all those threads and starting numerous new ones
But people can connect in massive ways. You just need to head to the Imperial Fleet to see 200 people all buzzing about in one zone.
Also it depends on your idea of 'massive' in the genre. To me 'massive' in a computer game doesn't have to be dozens of dozens or hundreds, it can be 20 or 50. That is certainly more than in most games of any genre.
Yes the game is instanced but I would never say it is to the detriment of the game. It is instanced in to small story based areas for small groups or your class story line, and they do not dampen down the overall massive feel of the game in any way. The solo storyline is not meant to be taken on by more than one person and you can still chat with the zone anyway.
Let's be honest here and say that your signature alone says how you feel, or want to feel about this game. Be honest with yourself rather than post anything to make this game look bad.
I know where you're coming from. I hated Rift with a passion and I put some serious bile in to dissing the game at every oppurtunity I could get. Where did it get me? No where. The game is still going strong and people still like it. Accept that people like SWTOR and that it's not going away. It's a good game at heart. Maybe it doesn't change the genre to your liking. Maybe it doesn't enhance the genre as fully as it could have. It's still a good game, well made and enjoyable.
Being bitter gets you nowhere. Trust me on that. Enjoy a game for what it's worth and move on. It's my MMO attitude now.
.
Just to comment OP title.
Even tho many of us like the idea of one big persistent world, MMO does not need one to be MMO. It's just one way to make it.