Bullfighting, Fishing, Hunting, Surfing, Pocker, Dominoes and many other competitive activities. The players are not facing the same enviroment that allows you to make a comparison that is 100% accurate and still they are very competitive.
Fare means that they went to the dungeon and they could not determine for sure what happened.
The good thing about GW2 is that you can try that dungeon as many times you want (different dynamic events) and stop when you want to and feel good with your time.
I don't know what would be a fair comparison, I'm not the one suggesting they add a system to facilitate dungeon run comparisons. I was just trying to point out why a timer might not be the perfect solution.
It could work since you could run the dungeon over and over, but the best times are always going to be those runs where none of the random potential incidents fire off. I could see a group walking by a certain wall, hoping the troll doesn't burst through and if it does then that run is "ruined".
That doesn't sound fun to me, but I don't begrudge anyone else from doing it. I will just stay away from "speed runs".
Bullfighting, Fishing, Hunting, Surfing, Pocker, Dominoes and many other competitive activities. The players are not facing the same enviroment that allows you to make a comparison that is 100% accurate and still they are very competitive.
Fare means that they went to the dungeon and they could not determine for sure what happened.
The good thing about GW2 is that you can try that dungeon as many times you want (different dynamic events) and stop when you want to and feel good with your time.
I don't know what would be a fair comparison, I'm not the one suggesting they add a system to facilitate dungeon run comparisons. I was just trying to point out why a timer might not be the perfect solution.
It could work since you could run the dungeon over and over, but the best times are always going to be those runs where none of the random potential incidents fire off. I could see a group walking by a certain wall, hoping the troll doesn't burst through and if it does then that run is "ruined".
That doesn't sound fun to me, but I don't begrudge anyone else from doing it. I will just stay away from "speed runs".
Troll bursing through could add extra points (or add extra time to the timer).
Bullfighting, Fishing, Hunting, Surfing, Pocker, Dominoes and many other competitive activities. The players are not facing the same enviroment that allows you to make a comparison that is 100% accurate and still they are very competitive.
Fare means that they went to the dungeon and they could not determine for sure what happened.
The good thing about GW2 is that you can try that dungeon as many times you want (different dynamic events) and stop when you want to and feel good with your time.
I don't know what would be a fair comparison, I'm not the one suggesting they add a system to facilitate dungeon run comparisons. I was just trying to point out why a timer might not be the perfect solution.
It could work since you could run the dungeon over and over, but the best times are always going to be those runs where none of the random potential incidents fire off. I could see a group walking by a certain wall, hoping the troll doesn't burst through and if it does then that run is "ruined".
That doesn't sound fun to me, but I don't begrudge anyone else from doing it. I will just stay away from "speed runs".
Troll bursing through could add extra points (or add extra time to the timer).
Yeah, but what's the point in rewarding players to rush through the dungeon? I thought one of the major problems with mmos nowadays is that players race through the content, not appreciating it, just to get theh lootz at the end. It's an exploration of a wondrous underground realm and not a 100 m dash.
I mean, there could be some "racing" PvE minigame or even seasonal "dungeon rush" events just for fun, but making the speed of racing through dungeons some kind of e-peen thing would be as dull and pointless as those weirdos who brag about how they "beat the game" by max-leveling in a few days.
If you want to compete in dungeon running maybe some other metric could be used, like "number of downed states in a run" - that would be a fun metrc imo.
No raids is fine but what is more important is what is it being replaced with? I don't see the added value of removing a feature and not add something else in its place.
So in other words, if no raids then what is the end game like? PvP?
No raids is fine but what is more important is what is it being replaced with? I don't see the added value of removing a feature and not add something else in its place.
So in other words, if no raids then what is the end game like? PvP?
Play Guild Wars and you'll know. Also, there are dungeons.
Now that you guys bring it up, maybe ArenaNet could later create an alternate version of a Dungeon for those that want it. So we'll have "Story mode", Explorable mode" and "Rush mode" (without the dynamic events) and instead of just being purely about the time taken it can take into account over things. Like maybe a team starts with 10,000 points, at the beginning of a dungeon and every second reduces it by X amount and maybe everytime a play is down it reduces the score even further and so on. So it will promote both speed runs and tactical teamplay, whilst not interfering with the other Dungeon modes.
WoW: Log in, stock up on consumables, find out who is online tonight, get your team together, head to instance, summon stragglers, go into dungeon, clear trash, get up to fight, explain the fight or who is on what assignment, spend 15 - 30 minutes killing boss, distribute loot for 5 minutes, clear more trash mobs, kill another boss or two, then log out and finish the rest tommorrow.
GW2: Log in, see whos online and say hello, do a little chatting, go out and explore the world, participate in a few DE's, you find an Elite Event and there are already other people in the Area flocking to the event through word of mouth from both NPC's and players, participate in epic fight for 15-30 minutes, get some loot, say goodnight and log out.
I know which one I prefer, how about you?
"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
Now that you guys bring it up, maybe ArenaNet could later create an alternate version of a Dungeon for those that want it. So we'll have "Story mode", Explorable mode" and "Rush mode" (without the dynamic events) and instead of just being purely about the time taken it can take into account over things. Like maybe a team starts with 10,000 points, at the beginning of a dungeon and every second reduces it by X amount and maybe everytime a play is down it reduces the score even further and so on. So it will promote both speed runs and tactical teamplay, whilst not interfering with the other Dungeon modes.
You mean free handouts for PVE participation mode. Because as soon as this is implemented, you're gonna start demanding greater prizes for these special DEs. The actual DEs aren't taking place in Instanced dungeon but in the actual world, so the only way this works is if you get your own out of game instance for people who want this kind of thing. Which would bring instances to the game, which is something we do not want. You're just wording it differently trying to make a circle sound like a square, but if thats the kind of game you want, your best bet is TOR or WOW.
No raids is fine but what is more important is what is it being replaced with? I don't see the added value of removing a feature and not add something else in its place.
So in other words, if no raids then what is the end game like? PvP?
Classical WoW endgame:
Raids, Instanced PvP
GW2 endgame:
Explorable dungeon modes (with increased difficulty modes very probably coming down the line), Elite epic DEs with dozens of other players, Competetive PvP, WvW for the glory of your realm , collecting elite titles and stuff
I'd say there's plenty to replace the tired old LF healer raids.
None of the real GW players want motherfucking raids in this game, also for OP, if i can level without doing any PvE i will do, just becuase afterall this is a 100% core PvP game, deal with it carebear.
No raids is fine but what is more important is what is it being replaced with? I don't see the added value of removing a feature and not add something else in its place.
So in other words, if no raids then what is the end game like? PvP?
Classical WoW endgame:
Raids, Instanced PvP
GW2 endgame
Elite dungeon modes, Elite epic DEs with dozens of other players, Competetive PvP, WvW for the glory of your realm , collecting elite titles and stuff
I'd say there's plenty to replace the tired old LF healer raids.
Also please get the notion of END game out of your head. That is strictly a playstyle from EQ clones, Raids have end game content because they play like single player games with 50 foot arcade bosses at the end. It's exactly one of the un immersive stupid things most of us do not like about WOW or TOR or LOTR or any other WOW or EQ clone. Their not removing any feature, they never added it or considered adding it in the first place.
Now that you guys bring it up, maybe ArenaNet could later create an alternate version of a Dungeon for those that want it. So we'll have "Story mode", Explorable mode" and "Rush mode" (without the dynamic events) and instead of just being purely about the time taken it can take into account over things. Like maybe a team starts with 10,000 points, at the beginning of a dungeon and every second reduces it by X amount and maybe everytime a play is down it reduces the score even further and so on. So it will promote both speed runs and tactical teamplay, whilst not interfering with the other Dungeon modes.
Could be.. I see it more as a mini-game, event kinda thing but it could be interesting as long as it does not interfere with other modes and, most importantly, it does not offer better time-invested/rewards return ratio.
Now that you guys bring it up, maybe ArenaNet could later create an alternate version of a Dungeon for those that want it. So we'll have "Story mode", Explorable mode" and "Rush mode" (without the dynamic events) and instead of just being purely about the time taken it can take into account over things. Like maybe a team starts with 10,000 points, at the beginning of a dungeon and every second reduces it by X amount and maybe everytime a play is down it reduces the score even further and so on. So it will promote both speed runs and tactical teamplay, whilst not interfering with the other Dungeon modes.
If they did that I would say no to Token rewards. If they allowed Token rewards for 'Rush mode' then the normal modes would stop being played. Give people an easier way to do something and people will flock to do it.
Now that you guys bring it up, maybe ArenaNet could later create an alternate version of a Dungeon for those that want it. So we'll have "Story mode", Explorable mode" and "Rush mode" (without the dynamic events) and instead of just being purely about the time taken it can take into account over things. Like maybe a team starts with 10,000 points, at the beginning of a dungeon and every second reduces it by X amount and maybe everytime a play is down it reduces the score even further and so on. So it will promote both speed runs and tactical teamplay, whilst not interfering with the other Dungeon modes.
Could be.. I see it more as a mini-game, event kinda thing but it could be interesting as long as it does not interfere with other modes and, most importantly, it does not offer better time-invested/rewards return ratio.
No because the only way to make these special "modes" is to instance them, how else are they going to play the same DE as everyone else in the real game world at the same time but in hard and fast mode. This is just another way of asking for special instances without outright asking for it. Then when the Elite dungeon modes are added the next logical step is asking for greated rewards. Quite simply no, no raiding, no thanks, go play World of Warcraft.
Seriously, once you get to max lvl PvE is gonna be a waste of time and people will play PvE content just to get fancy gear or to rest a bit from PvP madness, like underworld in GW, you will be spending most of the time doing PvP becuase PvE won't have more rewarding than goals, so all Farm2Win players are not going to fit at all in this game
Now that you guys bring it up, maybe ArenaNet could later create an alternate version of a Dungeon for those that want it. So we'll have "Story mode", Explorable mode" and "Rush mode" (without the dynamic events) and instead of just being purely about the time taken it can take into account over things. Like maybe a team starts with 10,000 points, at the beginning of a dungeon and every second reduces it by X amount and maybe everytime a play is down it reduces the score even further and so on. So it will promote both speed runs and tactical teamplay, whilst not interfering with the other Dungeon modes.
Could be.. I see it more as a mini-game, event kinda thing but it could be interesting as long as it does not interfere with other modes and, most importantly, it does not offer better time-invested/rewards return ratio.
No because the only way to make these special "modes" is to instance them, how else are they going to play the same DE as everyone else in the real game world at the same time but in hard and fast mode. This is just another way of asking for special instances without outright asking for it. Then when the Elite dungeon modes are added the next logical step is asking for greated rewards. Quite simply no, no raiding, no thanks, go play World of Warcraft.
Lol, I think he's talking about special "competetive" dungeon modes which wouldn't feature random events (trolls bursting through walls or what have you).
Imo the idea has some merit if its handled properly, as a side-dish rather than main course like in WoW and similar games. I'd participate in an event "Mad Rush through dungeon XYZ! Best team gets crazy hats!"
There is some truth in concern that while there is "competetive" PvP, there is no formalized "competetive" PvE in GW2. "Dungeon Rush" events or even permanent modes might make sense BUT ONLY if the rewards are handled carefully. IMO tokens shouldn't be rewarded for dungeon racing, but only titles and fluffy gear.
Now that you guys bring it up, maybe ArenaNet could later create an alternate version of a Dungeon for those that want it. So we'll have "Story mode", Explorable mode" and "Rush mode" (without the dynamic events) and instead of just being purely about the time taken it can take into account over things. Like maybe a team starts with 10,000 points, at the beginning of a dungeon and every second reduces it by X amount and maybe everytime a play is down it reduces the score even further and so on. So it will promote both speed runs and tactical teamplay, whilst not interfering with the other Dungeon modes.
If they did that I would say no to Token rewards. If they allowed Token rewards for 'Rush mode' then the normal modes would stop being played. Give people an easier way to do something and people will flock to do it.
Yeah, no tokens. Players will just have the Prestige of being on a Leaderboard and maybe acquire unqie Titles, or whatever. But no gear.
Seriously, once you get to max lvl PvE is gonna be a waste of time and people will play PvE content just to get fancy gear or to rest a bit from PvP madness, like underworld in GW, you will be spending most of the time doing PvP becuase PvE won't have more rewarding than goals, so all Farm2Win players are not going to fit at all in this game
PvE at max level won't be a waste of time if it is fun and somethign new to do. With over 1500 events and 8 Dungeons with 3 paths each, that is quite a bit to do. Plus Anet will be adding new DEs and modifying exsisting DEs. People have forgtten how to have fun in games these days. Too many are concerned about rewards instead of actually having fun doing the content.
GW2 isn't only about what is at the end of the game, it is about the journey to get there and beyond.
PvE at max level won't be a waste of time if it is fun and somethign new to do. With over 1500 events and 8 Dungeons with 3 paths each, that is quite a bit to do. Plus Anet will be adding new DEs and modifying exsisting DEs. People have forgtten how to have fun in games these days. Too many are concerned about rewards instead of actually having fun doing the content.
GW2 isn't only about what is at the end of the game, it is about the journey to get there and beyond.
I am not so impressed by 8 dungeons though, I thinkit will take an expansion or 2 before the endgame really is what it should be PvE wise.
But you are right that there is more than getting new gear and as long as it is fun it is worth playing,
If there really isn't going to be any raiding at launch i'll buy Gw2 out of sheer appreciation. Does it even matter what game you're playing if all you're doing is getting gear to get more gear?
The thing is GW2 after getting its pop to max level, will become more like MOBA style, since you will be able to create PvP characters at max level automatically. This is lovely.
The thing is GW2 after getting its pop to max level, will become more like MOBA style, since you will be able to create PvP characters at max level automatically. This is lovely.
You don't create PvP characters in GW2, like you did in GW1. You create a character that can join Structured PvP, but only after it has done the required 5-10min tutorial instance.
Comments
I don't know what would be a fair comparison, I'm not the one suggesting they add a system to facilitate dungeon run comparisons. I was just trying to point out why a timer might not be the perfect solution.
It could work since you could run the dungeon over and over, but the best times are always going to be those runs where none of the random potential incidents fire off. I could see a group walking by a certain wall, hoping the troll doesn't burst through and if it does then that run is "ruined".
That doesn't sound fun to me, but I don't begrudge anyone else from doing it. I will just stay away from "speed runs".
Troll bursing through could add extra points (or add extra time to the timer).
Yeah, but what's the point in rewarding players to rush through the dungeon? I thought one of the major problems with mmos nowadays is that players race through the content, not appreciating it, just to get theh lootz at the end. It's an exploration of a wondrous underground realm and not a 100 m dash.
I mean, there could be some "racing" PvE minigame or even seasonal "dungeon rush" events just for fun, but making the speed of racing through dungeons some kind of e-peen thing would be as dull and pointless as those weirdos who brag about how they "beat the game" by max-leveling in a few days.
If you want to compete in dungeon running maybe some other metric could be used, like "number of downed states in a run" - that would be a fun metrc imo.
No raids is fine but what is more important is what is it being replaced with? I don't see the added value of removing a feature and not add something else in its place.
So in other words, if no raids then what is the end game like? PvP?
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Play Guild Wars and you'll know. Also, there are dungeons.
Now that you guys bring it up, maybe ArenaNet could later create an alternate version of a Dungeon for those that want it. So we'll have "Story mode", Explorable mode" and "Rush mode" (without the dynamic events) and instead of just being purely about the time taken it can take into account over things. Like maybe a team starts with 10,000 points, at the beginning of a dungeon and every second reduces it by X amount and maybe everytime a play is down it reduces the score even further and so on. So it will promote both speed runs and tactical teamplay, whilst not interfering with the other Dungeon modes.
WoW: Log in, stock up on consumables, find out who is online tonight, get your team together, head to instance, summon stragglers, go into dungeon, clear trash, get up to fight, explain the fight or who is on what assignment, spend 15 - 30 minutes killing boss, distribute loot for 5 minutes, clear more trash mobs, kill another boss or two, then log out and finish the rest tommorrow.
GW2: Log in, see whos online and say hello, do a little chatting, go out and explore the world, participate in a few DE's, you find an Elite Event and there are already other people in the Area flocking to the event through word of mouth from both NPC's and players, participate in epic fight for 15-30 minutes, get some loot, say goodnight and log out.
I know which one I prefer, how about you?
"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
Raids are lame and ruin games by forcing ''end game''.
Im glad there are no raids.
You mean free handouts for PVE participation mode. Because as soon as this is implemented, you're gonna start demanding greater prizes for these special DEs. The actual DEs aren't taking place in Instanced dungeon but in the actual world, so the only way this works is if you get your own out of game instance for people who want this kind of thing. Which would bring instances to the game, which is something we do not want. You're just wording it differently trying to make a circle sound like a square, but if thats the kind of game you want, your best bet is TOR or WOW.
Classical WoW endgame:
Raids, Instanced PvP
GW2 endgame:
Explorable dungeon modes (with increased difficulty modes very probably coming down the line), Elite epic DEs with dozens of other players, Competetive PvP, WvW for the glory of your realm , collecting elite titles and stuff
I'd say there's plenty to replace the tired old LF healer raids.
None of the real GW players want motherfucking raids in this game, also for OP, if i can level without doing any PvE i will do, just becuase afterall this is a 100% core PvP game, deal with it carebear.
Also please get the notion of END game out of your head. That is strictly a playstyle from EQ clones, Raids have end game content because they play like single player games with 50 foot arcade bosses at the end. It's exactly one of the un immersive stupid things most of us do not like about WOW or TOR or LOTR or any other WOW or EQ clone. Their not removing any feature, they never added it or considered adding it in the first place.
Could be.. I see it more as a mini-game, event kinda thing but it could be interesting as long as it does not interfere with other modes and, most importantly, it does not offer better time-invested/rewards return ratio.
If they did that I would say no to Token rewards. If they allowed Token rewards for 'Rush mode' then the normal modes would stop being played. Give people an easier way to do something and people will flock to do it.
No because the only way to make these special "modes" is to instance them, how else are they going to play the same DE as everyone else in the real game world at the same time but in hard and fast mode. This is just another way of asking for special instances without outright asking for it. Then when the Elite dungeon modes are added the next logical step is asking for greated rewards. Quite simply no, no raiding, no thanks, go play World of Warcraft.
Seriously, once you get to max lvl PvE is gonna be a waste of time and people will play PvE content just to get fancy gear or to rest a bit from PvP madness, like underworld in GW, you will be spending most of the time doing PvP becuase PvE won't have more rewarding than goals, so all Farm2Win players are not going to fit at all in this game
Lol, I think he's talking about special "competetive" dungeon modes which wouldn't feature random events (trolls bursting through walls or what have you).
Imo the idea has some merit if its handled properly, as a side-dish rather than main course like in WoW and similar games. I'd participate in an event "Mad Rush through dungeon XYZ! Best team gets crazy hats!"
There is some truth in concern that while there is "competetive" PvP, there is no formalized "competetive" PvE in GW2. "Dungeon Rush" events or even permanent modes might make sense BUT ONLY if the rewards are handled carefully. IMO tokens shouldn't be rewarded for dungeon racing, but only titles and fluffy gear.
Yeah, no tokens. Players will just have the Prestige of being on a Leaderboard and maybe acquire unqie Titles, or whatever. But no gear.
PvE at max level won't be a waste of time if it is fun and somethign new to do. With over 1500 events and 8 Dungeons with 3 paths each, that is quite a bit to do. Plus Anet will be adding new DEs and modifying exsisting DEs. People have forgtten how to have fun in games these days. Too many are concerned about rewards instead of actually having fun doing the content.
GW2 isn't only about what is at the end of the game, it is about the journey to get there and beyond.
I am not so impressed by 8 dungeons though, I thinkit will take an expansion or 2 before the endgame really is what it should be PvE wise.
But you are right that there is more than getting new gear and as long as it is fun it is worth playing,
Funny that's been used to describe another MMO that gets a boatload more criticism then GW2
But at least GW2 will have PvP that is "working as intended"
If there really isn't going to be any raiding at launch i'll buy Gw2 out of sheer appreciation. Does it even matter what game you're playing if all you're doing is getting gear to get more gear?
The thing is GW2 after getting its pop to max level, will become more like MOBA style, since you will be able to create PvP characters at max level automatically. This is lovely.
You don't create PvP characters in GW2, like you did in GW1. You create a character that can join Structured PvP, but only after it has done the required 5-10min tutorial instance.