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Everquest Next ............ NOT World of Everquest

ste2000ste2000 londonPosts: 4,698Member Uncommon

I found an interesting article on the net written by Daniel Nations at Examiner.com which I agree with, and I will paste it in this post as if it was my point of view since is very similar to my thoughts about Everquest Next, then I will add few more personal comments:

" Sony Online Entertainment (SOE) has been silent on the subject of Everquest Next since first confirming it was in development, but we do know that it is a total reboot of the Everquest world, giving the development staff the ability to totally re-imagine the world of Norrath.  And we can guess that a reboot means it will take place in the same basic timeframe as the original Everquest.


But will it be the original Everquest.


 


There's an easy-to-read recipe for success when it comes to Everquest Next, and it reads something like this: remake Everquest with today's technology.


 


There's no denying that World of Warcraft changed the state of MMOs, in some way for better, and in some ways for worse.  World of Warcraft was designed to be "accessible", which is a nice way of saying easier and with the more casual player in mind.  And World of Warcraft has become more "accessible" as time has gone on.


 


In and of itself, this is not a bad thing.  But since newer games tend to copy the most popular of a genre, this translates to almost every MMO since World of Warcraft playing like the easy mode switch has been turned on.   


 


A standard dungeon run in World of Warcraft consists of blasting your way through trash mobs as quickly as possible until you came to the first unique/named boss.  After that fight, you blast your way as quickly as possible to the next, and the next, and the next. For the most part, it was a very linear affair with the only real challenge being the boss mob fights and the rest of the dungeon run playing out more like an Action RPG.


 


You didn't have dungeon runs in Everquest.  You had dungeon crawls.  The dungeons themselves weren't linear, as most were expansive dungeons containing many different named bosses spread throughout the area.  Parties of characters crept their way around each corner, always careful not to pull a stray mob.  Fights consisted of carefully controlling the action, making sure things didn't get out of hand.  A single stray mob could be the difference in victory or a total party wipe out, and death was a bit more meaningful than just a ghost run back up to your body.


 


It was difficult.  It was brutal.  It was epic.


 


Should SOE simply decide to remake this game, using today's technology to make the lands even larger and the dungeons even grander, there would be an audience lining up around the corner waiting to play the game.  Would it have World of Warcraft numbers?  Perhaps not.  But it would be successful.  


 


Unfortunately, the desire to change the underlying system is exactly why this won't happen.  There is no denying that Everquest had its share of problems.  And in ways, time has passed some of the mechanics by.   The downtime, for example, played a vital role in the original Everquest.  Even in a full party, there was some downtime, but that was good.  It allowed a person to chat with their group mates, get to know them, have fun and (in the end) form a community.   But in today's voice-chatting Ventrilo server world, it simply doesn't make sense.


 


And while the death penalty was one of the things that made the game so great -- it would be refreshing to actually worry about dying in a modern MMO -- it's easy to say that it was unbalanced and a bit too harsh at times.  


 


The desire to change these things is understandable, but also the slippery slope.  The quest system, for example, could use an overhaul.  But like the rest of the game, the quests in the original Everquest make modern MMOs look like super-easy mode.  You didn't get arrows pointing the way to quest destinations, or even detailed instructions on how to solve the quest.  Some of the epic quests in the game took months for the players to finally solve, which is one of the reasons why the game was so great.


 


A modern quest system simply doesn't fit.  A quest log that keeps track of dialogue and allows the player to write notes would make sense, so long as the rest of the system (including the need to type in the right responses -- which means actually know the right responses) was the same.


 


But it's that slippery slope.  Even if they were going for that classic Everquest feel, the need to put a modern quest system into the game would be too great.  And modern quest systems have turned most MMOs into very linear affairs rather than the great sandbox feel that was Everquest (and Ultima Online and Asheron's Call and Dark Ages of Camelot).   


 


Once the sandbox is destroyed, the game starts descending to just another post-WoW MMO on easy mode.  The names of the cities and characters might be similar, but put very simply: we don't need World of Everquest.  


 


And that's where they'll go wrong. "


 


I want to add a last personal thought.

I believe that the MMORPG Industry do not need another EQ2/WAR/RIFT/SWTOR, the market is already full of this stuff which keeps players interested for just few months, before moving on sothing else or worst going back to WoW.

To SOE.............. please be bold for once and have the guts to do something out of the ordinary.

EQ brought MMORPGs to the masses (Although it wasn't the first MMORPG), WoW revolutionaised the MMORPG industry (personally for the worse) and made it mainstream, Everquest Next should re-revolutionise the MMORPG Industry putting the Community and the RPG back in the equation (Something EQ was great at)

Lastly after all I said............I have to admit I am a WoW player and I will keep being one until something different comes out.

At the moment I am playing SWTOR, but it is already wearing out, and I will probably go back to WoW soon (Although I am not sure about the Panda race).

Like me there are probably thousands (millions) of people who play WoW because there is nothing better to play, who are waiting for something really "different" from everything we've seen for the last 7 years

I hope SoE has the courage to make that something different.

Looking back at the original EQ would be a good start.

That game is/was a jewel, it just need to be revisited and adapted to modern standards of accessibility (which doesn't mean easy mode)

If that doesn't happen, Everquest Next will suffer the same fate of Rift and probably SWTOR..............high sales on release but low subscription base after 3-6 months.

 


 

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Comments

  • RogoshRogosh MIPosts: 182Member Uncommon

    Agree with most of what you said and sadly I too went back to wow. But even now   its so easy, they have  cross server LFR(looking for raid) so anyone can get the end game epics. We need games with more challenge and hopefully EQ Next delivers.

    "Its better to look ugly and win than pretty and lose"

  • tixylixtixylix gfff, TNPosts: 1,208Member Uncommon

    WoW when it came out was great and I played everquest back in the day but just thought WoW was the better game. It made a better world which was seamless and the instances from level 20 were amazing, unlike anything you'd see in any other MMO. It hit the spot with the combat, best combat of any MMO ever IMO and the world PVP was fun but just needed something to fight over. Basically what blizzard made was a better version of Everquest and they introduced things like quest leveling instead of grinding that you saw in every MMO before it. The other thing it did was let you progress on your own but still had a lot of group content, Everquest 2 came out with mostly gorup quests and you couldn't progress on your own after level 10 and the quests dried out a lot of the time. So I found myself with Everquest 2 soloing the small amount of soloable mobs while my friends were offline. 

    The problem I have with WoW is what the industry has done since it. All they've tried to do is copy WoW and make an easier version in an effort to make it more accessible and WoW ahs done the same since. What Blizzard have made is a fan faire MMO to Warcraft and have lost the actual game in all that why they try to cater to everyone. I'm just sick of how MMOs have gone in that boring linear easy direction and SWTOR is the latest one to do it and I'm just sick of it. WoW was great and perfected the MMO, however MMOs since have just been shit and WoW has been ruined dumbing it down more and more.

     

    I just hope SOE make a seamless EQ game (never been a seamless one before) and they do something new, if they just try to recreate EQ or WoW then I will be bored already. I would like them to make a sandbox Everquest with lots of content, we've never seen a sandbox game with content so that would be kool. One that feels like an actual online world I can do what I want in, instead of a linear path till I get to the end game and quit because there is nothing to do.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,770Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by ste2000

    I have to admit I am a WoW player and I will keep being one until something different comes out.


     

    That doesn't make a bit of sense.  There are a lot of games that are very different from WoW that are already out.  Some of them are pretty good, even.

  • Moaky07Moaky07 Flushing, MIPosts: 2,096Member

    Even though EQ had a bit of a sandbox feel to it, it was the Grand Dad of all 3D themepark MMOs.

     

    The land wasnt reserved for building on, folks couldnt create their own mob encounters/content, nor ws PVP forced upon folks. 

    Most of all, Owen was told to sit down and STFU. His role was to support PVE, and not pass out loot. Nor were there manginas shaking their ass, and folks watching them, all cause a forced dependancy was thrown in to a non combatant class.

     

    I dont know where the guy writing that article come up with the idea that EQ was a sandbox, but that is wrong. The 4 PVP servers accounted for roughly 8 or 10% of subs(either 40 or 50 servers). PVE combined with no forced PVP caused EQ to top the charts back then.

    Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  • kevjardskevjards carlislePosts: 1,463Member

    personally i hope they make eq next like vanguard..i know that its going to be completely open like vanguard..wether or not it will be has difficult i dont know.i doubt it tbh..they would only get 3-400k subs max..mainly beause most of the youngsters that play mmo's want to progress quickly.get to end game and then complain there is nothing to do.and my main point is this.everyone knows about sony when it comes to money.they will want to get has many subs as possible and you aint gonna do that making the game difficult.yes you would attract hard core guys..but only if the game was a challenge...only game i know atm which holds a decent challenge is vanguard.i think its quite a cunundrum for sony in that regards..if you make it like wow,they are screwed,if they make it to hard they are screwed for subs and sales.

    i think the term is caught between a rock and a hard place.

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member

    I agree completely as well.  If they are planning to take Next the same direction SWTOR did, they might as well cease production now, and cut their losses.  One thing SWTOR confirmed for me, something I have been saying for a long while now, is that more and more people are fed up with the standard WoW themepark design.  I'm not saying themeparks are dead, I'm saying copying WoW as far as the gameplay mechanics is concerend is a non-starter.

    This is also why I'm looking forward to seeing both GW2 and TSW.  They are both shaking things up siginificantly.  I'd like to see a turn towards hybrid sandbox/themeparks, but I'd settle for innovative and interesting themeparks.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member

    I don't believe in Everquest Next, it will be a massive failure. (prediction lol)

    The good designers have left for other companies (2 went to 38 studios) and the original Luclin artist (the onle one who was half-decent) isn't developing for games anymore I believe (if she is tell me where she went).

    A game is only as good as it's designers, what's left at SoE is only the name, the actual people are long gone.

    (there are actually 2 or 3 original designers left if I'm 100% honest, but let's be frank, the only reason they're still at SoE is because they have very little to offer other companies)

  • Moaky07Moaky07 Flushing, MIPosts: 2,096Member

    Originally posted by MindTrigger

    I agree completely as well.  If they are planning to take Next the same direction SWTOR did, they might as well cease production now, and cut their losses.  One thing SWTOR confirmed for me, something I have been saying for a long while now, is that more and more people are fed up with the standard WoW themepark design.  I'm not saying themeparks are dead, I'm saying copying WoW as far as the gameplay mechanics is concerend is a non-starter.

    This is also why I'm looking forward to seeing both GW2 and TSW.  They are both shaking things up siginificantly.  I'd like to see a turn towards hybrid sandbox/themeparks, but I'd settle for innovative and interesting themeparks.

    Yep themeparks are doing so bad that TOR tore it up with sales, and folks like you are there on the TOR forums to remind everyone that it is all an illusion. No one actually could like the game, I mean you dont, and you obviously speak for all.

     

    No matter how much someone likes/dislikes the current crop of themeparks doesnt really matter. Your hope of sadbox games taking the primary seat in the MMORPG chain is not going to happen in the next 10 yrs, just like they sucked hind tit the past 10+ yrs.

     

    Even when the day hits that virtual reality is here, folks will be looking to be the hero, and not Bob the butcher from the local market.

    Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  • ValkaernValkaern OxfordPosts: 512Member

      Sony must know deep down inside they are not going to compete with Swtor, Rift or WoW if they chase the exact same market, and surely they don't want to cannibalise what's left of their EQ2 player base. Unfortunately in my opinion Sony have also proven time and time again capable of making dreadful decisions.

     

      I think the best they could hope for is to provide a service for a respectably sized player base that does crave something deeper and more challenging than what we've been seeing since WoW nerfed the MMO genre. Perhaps some players introduced to the MMO genre through WoW have grown up now, learned the basics, and might now actually be ready to enjoy a more challenging environment.

     

      Sony are obviously open to experimenting with payment models, and as such it might be worthwhile for them to consider something along the lines of charging slightly more than the cheap as hell 15$/£9 a month that's been the norm for well over a decade now.  I'd guess that those of us that grew up on Everquest now have real jobs and would be willing to pay more for an experience we can't get anywhere else. If they managed to recapture the essence of what the original Everquest brought to the table I for one wouldn't hesitate to pay even double the current sub rate provided the quality of the game justified such a cost.

     

      The bottom line is, there are hundreds and hundreds of clones out there all catering to the exact same market while entire subsets of players have no option but to play something that's somewhat similar to what they want, but not at all their dream MMO. Surely someone stands to benefit by capitalising on that.

     

      I'm sure there are millions of players quite satisfied with the endless onslaught of cloned linear casual video games, and it's very clear they're more than catered to, but I'm also fairly sure there might be at least a few hundred thousand gamers eager to revisit the online gaming worlds we used to know, ones that newer gamers never got to experience while in their prime.

     

      I personally miss when an MMO could be a hobby with some longevity, and enjoyed the deeper games much more than I do these no-risk-all-reward-linear-task-hub-to max level in two weeks MMO emulators. I just can't appreciate rewards for no risk and no challenge. It's a shallow experience.

     

      It's wishful thinking, and Sony is the last place I'd look for a miracle, but I'd love to be surprised.

     

      Meanwhile I'm bracing for a Free Realms-esque cash shop WoW clone with roughly incorporated Norrathian lore.

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member

    Originally posted by Quizzical

    Originally posted by ste2000

    I have to admit I am a WoW player and I will keep being one until something different comes out.


     

    That doesn't make a bit of sense.  There are a lot of games that are very different from WoW that are already out.  Some of them are pretty good, even.

    NAME ONE, please!

     

    -Rift

    -SWTOR

    -Aion

     

    ALL exactly like WoW with the same "easy mode" accesibility. You want to find out the perfect formulai for TRULY bringing EQ back? Find an EQ, UO, SWG, DAOC old-schooler who HATES WoW, and you're golden. Simply put, if you didn't understand what he was talking about Quizzical it wasn't for you to digest. As for the rest of us, I can safely say at least FOR ME he was 183% spot on!

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • skyexileskyexile MelbournePosts: 692Member

    I think we will see more of everquest later this year/early next year.

    Planetside 2 is still very heavy on all the concept, renders animators artisists etc. once they wrapup most of the planetside art im sure they will transfer most of those artists to everquest next and then that game can get into full production and we can start seeing some stuff. It really sohuld not be far off ether, looks like msot of the weapons and vehciles are done, probably need a fair amount more of alternative armour mods made up along with some maps then artistically its done.

    SKYeXile
    TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
    Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  • skyexileskyexile MelbournePosts: 692Member


    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    Originally posted by Quizzical

    Originally posted by ste2000

    I have to admit I am a WoW player and I will keep being one until something different comes out.

     
    That doesn't make a bit of sense.  There are a lot of games that are very different from WoW that are already out.  Some of them are pretty good, even.


    NAME ONE, please!
     
    -Rift
    -SWTOR
    -Aion
     
    ALL exactly like WoW with the same "easy mode" accesibility. You want to find out the perfect formulai for TRULY bringing EQ back? Find an EQ, UO, SWG, DAOC old-schooler who HATES WoW, and you're golden. Simply put, if you didn't understand what he was talking about Quizzical it wasn't for you to digest. As for the rest of us, I can safely say at least FOR ME he was 183% spot on!

    Yea I cant find a game that's not a WoW clone amongst these wow clones that I play either.


    Wait, what?


    SKYeXile
    TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
    Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member

    Originally posted by skyexile

     




    Originally posted by Fadedbomb





    Originally posted by Quizzical






    Originally posted by ste2000



    I have to admit I am a WoW player and I will keep being one until something different comes out.



     






    That doesn't make a bit of sense.  There are a lot of games that are very different from WoW that are already out.  Some of them are pretty good, even.





    NAME ONE, please!

     

    -Rift

    -SWTOR

    -Aion

     

    ALL exactly like WoW with the same "easy mode" accesibility. You want to find out the perfect formulai for TRULY bringing EQ back? Find an EQ, UO, SWG, DAOC old-schooler who HATES WoW, and you're golden. Simply put, if you didn't understand what he was talking about Quizzical it wasn't for you to digest. As for the rest of us, I can safely say at least FOR ME he was 183% spot on!




     

    Yea I cant find a game that's not a WoW clone amongst these wow clones that I play either.



    Wait, what?

     

    Please, I'm still looking for someone to name a game not trying hardcore to copy WoW.

     

    Literally, the ONLY one i could find that was released recently was Fallen Earth, but even that one went HIGHLY linear in design.

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • ValkaernValkaern OxfordPosts: 512Member

    Originally posted by Moaky07

    Originally posted by MindTrigger

    I agree completely as well.  If they are planning to take Next the same direction SWTOR did, they might as well cease production now, and cut their losses.  One thing SWTOR confirmed for me, something I have been saying for a long while now, is that more and more people are fed up with the standard WoW themepark design.  I'm not saying themeparks are dead, I'm saying copying WoW as far as the gameplay mechanics is concerend is a non-starter.

    This is also why I'm looking forward to seeing both GW2 and TSW.  They are both shaking things up siginificantly.  I'd like to see a turn towards hybrid sandbox/themeparks, but I'd settle for innovative and interesting themeparks.

    Yep themeparks are doing so bad that TOR tore it up with sales, and folks like you are there on the TOR forums to remind everyone that it is all an illusion. No one actually could like the game, I mean you dont, and you obviously speak for all.

     

    No matter how much someone likes/dislikes the current crop of themeparks doesnt really matter. Your hope of sadbox games taking the primary seat in the MMORPG chain is not going to happen in the next 10 yrs, just like they sucked hind tit the past 10+ yrs.

     

    Even when the day hits that virtual reality is here, folks will be looking to be the hero, and not Bob the butcher from the local market.

    I think you may have a serious misconception of what sandbox means.

    In fact I've felt FAR more heroic in sandboxes in which I earned the right to stand out than I ever did in these endless theme park clones where every other player of my class was wearing the exact same gear and had the exact same accomplishments.

    In fact, I haven't heard of anyone since the more sandbox based days that had actually earned a reputation or infamy. How could they in WoW clones? Everyones a clone. Everyone has the best gear. Everyones done the exact same quests. Everyones done the same tiny little linear dungeons.

    Meh. If that's what floats your boat I won't criticize. But I also have the luxery of knowing I've at least had the opportunity to experience online gaming worlds with depth that puts the current linear path hand holders to shame.

  • kevjardskevjards carlislePosts: 1,463Member

    Originally posted by Valkaern

      Sony must know deep down inside they are not going to compete with Swtor, Rift or WoW if they chase the exact same market, and surely they don't want to cannibalise what's left of their EQ2 player base. Unfortunately in my opinion Sony have also proven time and time again capable of making dreadful decisions.

     

      I think the best they could hope for is to provide a service for a respectably sized player base that does crave something deeper and more challenging than what we've been seeing since WoW nerfed the MMO genre. Perhaps some players introduced to the MMO genre through WoW have grown up now, learned the basics, and might now actually be ready to enjoy a more challenging environment.

     

      Sony are obviously open to experimenting with payment models, and as such it might be worthwhile for them to consider something along the lines of charging slightly more than the cheap as hell 15$/£9 a month that's been the norm for well over a decade now.  I'd guess that those of us that grew up on Everquest now have real jobs and would be willing to pay more for an experience we can't get anywhere else. If they managed to recapture the essence of what the original Everquest brought to the table I for one wouldn't hesitate to pay even double the current sub rate provided the quality of the game justified such a cost.

     

      The bottom line is, there are hundreds and hundreds of clones out there all catering to the exact same market while entire subsets of players have no option but to play something that's somewhat similar to what they want, but not at all their dream MMO. Surely someone stands to benefit by capitalising on that.

     

      I'm sure there are millions of players quite satisfied with the endless onslaught of cloned linear casual video games, and it's very clear they're more than catered to, but I'm also fairly sure there might be at least a few hundred thousand gamers eager to revisit the online gaming worlds we used to know, ones that newer gamers never got to experience while in their prime.

     

      I personally miss when an MMO could be a hobby with some longevity, and enjoyed the deeper games much more than I do these no-risk-all-reward-linear-task-hub-to max level in two weeks MMO emulators. I just can't appreciate rewards for no risk and no challenge. It's a shallow experience.

     

      It's wishful thinking, and Sony is the last place I'd look for a miracle, but I'd love to be surprised.

     

      Meanwhile I'm bracing for a Free Realms-esque cash shop WoW clone with roughly incorporated Norrathian lore.

    somehow i get the same feeling..but i would like to be suprised by them.wont hold my breath though.thing is they must know that if they follow the wow or  swtor formula the game will die quickly..the game should be aimed at older generation of players imo..but it wont be lol.and i,m not having a dig at those 2 games..its just gonna be more of the same.one thing it wont be from an interview i saw at E3 or something like that was that the game is not going to be instanced..or so they say.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member

    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    Originally posted by Quizzical

    That doesn't make a bit of sense.  There are a lot of games that are very different from WoW that are already out.  Some of them are pretty good, even.

    NAME ONE, please!

    There's a bazillion MMO different from WoW, but each time someone asks this question and I answer, they say "I don't like x, I meant y, I wanted z".

    So I'm gonna reply anyway, knowing you'll likely say my answer isn't correct because of x, y, z.

     

    *Vindictus

    *Street Gears

    *Eve Online

     

    You asked for one, I gave you3, and all 3 are completely different from WoW.

     

  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 dublinPosts: 2,735Member

    Originally posted by Rogosh

    Agree with most of what you said and sadly I too went back to wow. But even now   its so easy, they have  cross server LFR(looking for raid) so anyone can get the end game epics. We need games with more challenge and hopefully EQ Next delivers.

    mate no offense but your sig has a typo..it's than not then.

  • skyexileskyexile MelbournePosts: 692Member


    Originally posted by Fadedbomb


    Originally posted by skyexile
     



    Originally posted by Fadedbomb




    Originally posted by Quizzical




    Originally posted by ste2000

    I have to admit I am a WoW player and I will keep being one until something different comes out.

     




    That doesn't make a bit of sense.  There are a lot of games that are very different from WoW that are already out.  Some of them are pretty good, even.



    NAME ONE, please!
     
    -Rift
    -SWTOR
    -Aion
     
    ALL exactly like WoW with the same "easy mode" accesibility. You want to find out the perfect formulai for TRULY bringing EQ back? Find an EQ, UO, SWG, DAOC old-schooler who HATES WoW, and you're golden. Simply put, if you didn't understand what he was talking about Quizzical it wasn't for you to digest. As for the rest of us, I can safely say at least FOR ME he was 183% spot on!


     
    Yea I cant find a game that's not a WoW clone amongst these wow clones that I play either.

    Wait, what?
     

    Please, I'm still looking for someone to name a game not trying hardcore to copy WoW.
     
    Literally, the ONLY one i could find that was released recently was Fallen Earth, but even that one went HIGHLY linear in design.

    have you looked much?

    Released:
    Global Agenda.
    World of tanks
    Hellgate
    Darkfall
    Dragons nest
    Perpetuum
    Mortal Online

    Upcoming:
    Planetside 2
    Firefall
    Archage
    Dust 514

    theres plenty more too. but if you only look for holy trinity quest based MMO's based around ability combat then everything is going to look like a WoW clone, you probably think GW2 is a wow clone.

    SKYeXile
    TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
    Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 dublinPosts: 2,735Member

    Originally posted by skyexile

     




    Originally posted by Fadedbomb





    Originally posted by skyexile

     








    Originally posted by Fadedbomb










    Originally posted by Quizzical












    Originally posted by ste2000



    I have to admit I am a WoW player and I will keep being one until something different comes out.



     












    That doesn't make a bit of sense.  There are a lot of games that are very different from WoW that are already out.  Some of them are pretty good, even.










    NAME ONE, please!

     

    -Rift

    -SWTOR

    -Aion

     

    ALL exactly like WoW with the same "easy mode" accesibility. You want to find out the perfect formulai for TRULY bringing EQ back? Find an EQ, UO, SWG, DAOC old-schooler who HATES WoW, and you're golden. Simply put, if you didn't understand what he was talking about Quizzical it wasn't for you to digest. As for the rest of us, I can safely say at least FOR ME he was 183% spot on!








     

    Yea I cant find a game that's not a WoW clone amongst these wow clones that I play either.



    Wait, what?

     






    Please, I'm still looking for someone to name a game not trying hardcore to copy WoW.

     

    Literally, the ONLY one i could find that was released recently was Fallen Earth, but even that one went HIGHLY linear in design.






    have you looked much?

     

    Released:

    Global Agenda.

    World of tanks

    Hellgate

    Darkfall

    Dragons nest

    Perpetuum

    Mortal Online

    Upcoming:

    Planetside 2

    Firefall

    Archage

    Dust 514

    theres plenty more too. but if you only look for holy trinity quest based MMO's based around ability combat then everything is going to look like a WoW clone, you probably think GW2 is a wow clone.

    most of those games don't have much financial backing lets be honest.

  • HedeonHedeon GraestedPosts: 954Member Uncommon

    when looking at what they have done and are doing with EQ2, Id be very suprised if they´d go make a game far away from the current "AAA" norm, but then they did say they had looked more toward EQ1 when designing EQnext than EQ2....but well dont believe a word of Smedley, always advertising nothing else

     

    we will see, hope to see a good game non the less....sure have to be with the current market

  • skyexileskyexile MelbournePosts: 692Member


    Originally posted by nerovipus32

    Originally posted by skyexile
     


    have you looked much?
     
    Released:
    Global Agenda.
    World of tanks
    Hellgate
    Darkfall
    Dragons nest
    Perpetuum
    Mortal Online
    Upcoming:
    Planetside 2
    Firefall
    Archage
    Dust 514
    theres plenty more too. but if you only look for holy trinity quest based MMO's based around ability combat then everything is going to look like a WoW clone, you probably think GW2 is a wow clone.
    most of those games don't have much financial backing lets be honest.

    I do hear the more money thrown at a game, the better it becomes, JUST LOOK AT TABULA RASA!


    SKYeXile
    TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
    Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  • BanquettoBanquetto CityPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Fadedbomb
    Please, I'm still looking for someone to name a game not trying hardcore to copy WoW.
     
    Literally, the ONLY one i could find that was released recently was Fallen Earth, but even that one went HIGHLY linear in design.

    Click on the "Game List" tab at the top of the page. You'll see a list of well over 400 MMOs. A great many of them are not trying to copy WoW at all.


    Are they any good? Mostly not. Will you enjoy them? Mostly not. But I guarantee you that there's something there for you that is nothing like WoW. If you tone down the belligerence and say what you're looking for (in terms of setting, style of gameplay, PvE/PvP, F2P/sub, etc.), I'm sure you can get a recommendation.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,770Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    Originally posted by Quizzical


    Originally posted by ste2000

    I have to admit I am a WoW player and I will keep being one until something different comes out.


     

    That doesn't make a bit of sense.  There are a lot of games that are very different from WoW that are already out.  Some of them are pretty good, even.

    NAME ONE, please!

     

    -Rift

    -SWTOR

    -Aion

     

    ALL exactly like WoW with the same "easy mode" accesibility. You want to find out the perfect formulai for TRULY bringing EQ back? Find an EQ, UO, SWG, DAOC old-schooler who HATES WoW, and you're golden. Simply put, if you didn't understand what he was talking about Quizzical it wasn't for you to digest. As for the rest of us, I can safely say at least FOR ME he was 183% spot on!

    There are some games that are a lot like WoW, and you've managed to list a few.  But that doesn't mean that all games are just like WoW.  Right now, I'm playing Uncharted Waters Online, the AAA sandbox game that some people on this site are convinced doesn't exist.  It has very little in common with WoW apart from things intrinsic to being an MMORPG such as requiring Internet access.

    Before that, I played Spiral Knights, which is also nothing like WoW, though you could argue that wasn't an MMORPG (it's one of those gmaes that is debatable).  Going back a little further, I played Civilization IV for a while, which is also nothing like WoW, though it's certainly not an MMORPG.  Before that, I played Champions Online, which you could argue is a lot like WoW except for the combat--which is most of both games.

    If you want other MMORPGs further back that I've played that were nothing like WoW, then how about Puzzle Pirates or A Tale in the Desert?  I'd argue that Wizard 101 and Atlantica aren't very similar to WoW, either, even if Atlantica isn't very good.  Or how about Pirates of the Burning Sea?  I'm pretty sure that Vindictus and Rusty Hearts are also very different from WoW, though I haven't played either.

  • bonzoso21bonzoso21 Michigan, USPosts: 108Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Moaky07

    Even though EQ had a bit of a sandbox feel to it, it was the Grand Dad of all 3D themepark MMOs.

     

    The land wasnt reserved for building on, folks couldnt create their own mob encounters/content, nor ws PVP forced upon folks. 

    Most of all, Owen was told to sit down and STFU. His role was to support PVE, and not pass out loot. Nor were there manginas shaking their ass, and folks watching them, all cause a forced dependancy was thrown in to a non combatant class.

     

    I dont know where the guy writing that article come up with the idea that EQ was a sandbox, but that is wrong. The 4 PVP servers accounted for roughly 8 or 10% of subs(either 40 or 50 servers). PVE combined with no forced PVP caused EQ to top the charts back then.

    I don't agree that a game needs to have open PvP to be considered more of a sandbox MMO than a themepark MMO. To me, it's all about how the content is presented--are you led through the entire world from one quest hub to the next in a fairly linear fashion, or are you given a little push out into the world and forced to find your own adventure and create your own story within it? That is where I draw the line between the two sub-genres. Both types have their place, and I've enjoyed some games from both sides, but it's obvious that the post-WoW MMO market has been dominated by the more structured themepark games. Many of us would love another game that has a little more in common with the EverQuests and Asheron's Calls of the past without having to deal with the dog-eat-dog competition of open PvP.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,770Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by bonzoso21

    Originally posted by Moaky07

    Even though EQ had a bit of a sandbox feel to it, it was the Grand Dad of all 3D themepark MMOs.

     

    The land wasnt reserved for building on, folks couldnt create their own mob encounters/content, nor ws PVP forced upon folks. 

    Most of all, Owen was told to sit down and STFU. His role was to support PVE, and not pass out loot. Nor were there manginas shaking their ass, and folks watching them, all cause a forced dependancy was thrown in to a non combatant class.

     

    I dont know where the guy writing that article come up with the idea that EQ was a sandbox, but that is wrong. The 4 PVP servers accounted for roughly 8 or 10% of subs(either 40 or 50 servers). PVE combined with no forced PVP caused EQ to top the charts back then.

    I don't agree that a game needs to have open PvP to be considered more of a sandbox MMO than a themepark MMO. To me, it's all about how the content is presented--are you led through the entire world from one quest hub to the next in a fairly linear fashion, or are you given a little push out into the world and forced to find your own adventure and create your own story within it? That is where I draw the line between the two sub-genres. Both types have their place, and I've enjoyed some games from both sides, but it's obvious that the post-WoW MMO market has been dominated by the more structured themepark games. Many of us would love another game that has a little more in common with the EverQuests and Asheron's Calls of the past without having to deal with the dog-eat-dog competition of open PvP.

    I'm not sure that he was arguing that.  I'd certainly hope that someone wouldn't try to claim that WoW was a theme park game on PVE servers and a sandbox game on PVP servers.

    A Tale in the Desert might be the purest sandbox game on the market, and doesn't even have combat.  Though you might still argue that crafting can be pvp, too.

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