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I miss olfschool PvE

kishekishe aitooPosts: 1,960Member Uncommon

Good ol' times, I'd just go to zone around my level range, shout "XXX looking for XP group" get invite and start killing stuff while chatting away with rest of the group and having a laugh, It was far less grindy and tedious than running to town, picking up 12 quests, running across the map to do the 12 quests, running back to town to return the quests, running around town to find new 12 quests...etc etc.

Only social aspect left on MMOs are raids and even so, game after game reduces the amount of people you can bring to raid and reduces the amount of people you see in same zone with you...if same development continues, soon all MMOs will remind us of "Progressquest" where you just pressed a button and watched the game play itself for you (http://progressquest.com/)

 

 

 

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Comments

  • 77lolmac7777lolmac77 Herp Derp, PAPosts: 496Member

    Originally posted by kishe

    Good ol' times, I'd just go to zone around my level range, shout "XXX looking for XP group" get invite and start killing stuff while chatting away with rest of the group and having a laugh, It was far less grindy and tedious than running to town, picking up 12 quests, running across the map to do the 12 quests, running back to town to return the quests, running around town to find new 12 quests...etc etc.

    Only social aspect left on MMOs are raids and even so, game after game reduces the amount of people you can bring to raid and reduces the amount of people you see in same zone with you...if same development continues, soon all MMOs will remind us of "Progressquest" where you just pressed a button and watched the game play itself for you (http://progressquest.com/)

     

     

     

    Pretty sure in green would be described as grinding?

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    Originally posted by 77lolmac77

    Originally posted by kishe

    Good ol' times, I'd just go to zone around my level range, shout "XXX looking for XP group" get invite and start killing stuff while chatting away with rest of the group and having a laugh, It was far less grindy and tedious than running to town, picking up 12 quests, running across the map to do the 12 quests, running back to town to return the quests, running around town to find new 12 quests...etc etc.

    Only social aspect left on MMOs are raids and even so, game after game reduces the amount of people you can bring to raid and reduces the amount of people you see in same zone with you...if same development continues, soon all MMOs will remind us of "Progressquest" where you just pressed a button and watched the game play itself for you (http://progressquest.com/)

     

     

     

    Pretty sure in green would be described as grinding?

    There is no definition of grinding.

     

    To one person doing dozens of kill / bring x quests would be grind and to other it would not.

    To one person killing mobs for xp would be grind and to other it would not.

    To one person doing same dungeon(s) over and over to get enough tokens would be a grind and to other it would not.

    To one person crafting would be a grind and to other it would not.

    etc,

     

    You get the point?

  • dllddlld GöteborgPosts: 542Member Uncommon

    There's really nothing stopping people from doing such, it's clear "questing" is a superior way of levelingin terms of enjoyment for the vast vast majority of people.

  • DewmDewm Soldotna, AKPosts: 1,341Member

    Originally posted by kishe

    Good ol' times, I'd just go to zone around my level range, shout "XXX looking for XP group" get invite and start killing stuff while chatting away with rest of the group and having a laugh, It was far less grindy and tedious than running to town, picking up 12 quests, running across the map to do the 12 quests, running back to town to return the quests, running around town to find new 12 quests...etc etc.

    Only social aspect left on MMOs are raids and even so, game after game reduces the amount of people you can bring to raid and reduces the amount of people you see in same zone with you...if same development continues, soon all MMOs will remind us of "Progressquest" where you just pressed a button and watched the game play itself for you (http://progressquest.com/)

     

     

     

     

    Sounds very close to my expeirence with FFXI, and the ONLY reason I am still looking for a MMO. One of these days I will find it again. 

    I played FFXI for around 8hrs a day (back before I had a job)....and it was NEVER "grindy" it was awesome.

     

    Agree with you %100

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  • DewmDewm Soldotna, AKPosts: 1,341Member

    Originally posted by dlld

    There's really nothing stopping people from doing such, it's clear "questing" is a superior way of levelingin terms of enjoyment for the vast vast majority of people.

    how is it clear?

    I'm not trying to argue....i'm just wondering? is there some awesome study that I havn't heard of that proves this?

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  • DisdenaDisdena Troy, NYPosts: 1,093Member

    I agree with the OP. If the combat is fun, I would much rather spend 2 hours of constant combat in a group—even fighting exactly the same enemies from the same camp over and over—rather than be shuttled here and there among quest hubs to do 3 minutes of fighting before being ushered on to the next enemy type. And if the combat isn't particularly fun, I'd still rather be in a static stationary camp because it's conducive to social interaction. I do hope that at some point a retro game like that comes along.

    image
  • UproarUproar Canton, MIPosts: 520Member Uncommon

    "29 Monk, Looking for Ledge Group."

     

    Yeah. /signed.

    image

  • yewsefyewsef KuwaitPosts: 335Member

     

    Don't we all miss that OP?

     

    We being the people who tried both worlds. One being the Quest Driven content which you explained (going back to town taking 12 quests doing boring errands...etc) and the other style of being free doing whatever we want in the world (whether crawling a dungeon or grinding a spot).

     

    Having tried both... I can tell you that I am SURE I find the freedom choice REGARDLESS of how people might call it (grinding) it was WAY more fun than soloing quests running 50% of your time from point A to B to C just because THEY want you to.

     

    I'd rather decide where to go... find a group to do whatever we decide to do in that place.

     

    Your example brings back beautiful memories from EverQuest even doing repetative XP grinds it was way more fun than running all the time collecting mushroom, alone. I am definite that a lot of other people miss those good old days.

     

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member

    I really hope that a game finds a way to combine the socialization and flexibility of old school group grinding with the variety of quest grinding.

    And I think the key is to...

    STOP TYING QUESTS TO INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS.

    THIS is the reason you can't group up in modern theme-parks like you used to in old school ones.  It's because every player in the game will inevitably be at a different point in all their quests than you, so grouping up just winds up being a major pain:

    Bob:  "Hey want to group to kill Blackpaw?"

    Mary:  "Nah, I still have to kill 10 gnolls and 20 gnoll mages before I get that quest.  Did you want to group to kill Whiteclaw?"

    Bob:  "Nah, I already did that one...oh well, cya!"

    Mary:  "Cya!"

    Imagine if a game that still had quests complete with storylines and all, but didn't tie these quests to the player, and instead tied them to the world.  In this way, whenever a player came across a quest, they could do it, right there and then.  No prerequisites needed!

    You could just do quests by randomly running around the world with your friends!

    So instead of asking players what quest they are on when you want to group, you would just say, "hey want to group?"  And they would say "sure!"

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Dewm

    Originally posted by dlld
    There's really nothing stopping people from doing such, it's clear "questing" is a superior way of levelingin terms of enjoyment for the vast vast majority of people.
    how is it clear?
    I'm not trying to argue....i'm just wondering? is there some awesome study that I havn't heard of that proves this?


    10,000,000+ WoW subscribers voting with their pocket books?

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     




    Originally posted by Dewm





    Originally posted by dlld

    There's really nothing stopping people from doing such, it's clear "questing" is a superior way of levelingin terms of enjoyment for the vast vast majority of people.






    how is it clear?

    I'm not trying to argue....i'm just wondering? is there some awesome study that I havn't heard of that proves this?






    10,000,000+ WoW subscribers voting with their pocket books?

     



    9,900,000 of them never played not-quest-based mmo. (hell most of them even don't propably know that there are mmorpg's existing or possible to do that don't copy WoW-pattern).

     

    Even though I partially agree where you come from.

     

    Still @Creslin123

  • AvanahAvanah Posts: 945Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    I really hope that a game finds a way to combine the socialization and flexibility of old school group grinding with the variety of quest grinding.

    And I think the key is to...

    STOP TYING QUESTS TO INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS.

    THIS is the reason you can't group up in modern theme-parks like you used to in old school ones.  It's because every player in the game will inevitably be at a different point in all their quests than you, so grouping up just winds up being a major pain:

    Bob:  "Hey want to group to kill Blackpaw?"

    Mary:  "Nah, I still have to kill 10 gnolls and 20 gnoll mages before I get that quest.  Did you want to group to kill Whiteclaw?"

    Bob:  "Nah, I already did that one...oh well, cya!"

    Mary:  "Cya!"

    Imagine if a game that still had quests complete with storylines and all, but didn't tie these quests to the player, and instead tied them to the world.  In this way, whenever a player came across a quest, they could do it, right there and then.  No prerequisites needed!

    You could just do quests by randomly running around the world with your friends!

    So instead of asking players what quest they are on when you want to group, you would just say, "hey want to group?"  And they would say "sure!"

    Guild Wars 2 is coming soon.  Hang in there.

    TGIF...Thank God I'm Female

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    One Cooking and One Cleaning!"

  • CastillleCastillle KhobarPosts: 2,703Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by kishe

    Good ol' times, I'd just go to zone around my level range, shout "XXX looking for XP group" get invite and start killing stuff while chatting away with rest of the group and having a laugh, It was far less grindy and tedious than running to town, picking up 12 quests, running across the map to do the 12 quests, running back to town to return the quests, running around town to find new 12 quests...etc etc.

    Only social aspect left on MMOs are raids and even so, game after game reduces the amount of people you can bring to raid and reduces the amount of people you see in same zone with you...if same development continues, soon all MMOs will remind us of "Progressquest" where you just pressed a button and watched the game play itself for you (http://progressquest.com/)

     

     

     

    I always form those kinds of groups in games I play.  I actually do that in SWTOR as well.  Nothing like grabbing 4 other people and just running around clearing the heroic areas while messing around and maybe rp ing!  @_@

    Some of the games I did this on that led to some really fun times  were :

     

    Champions Online - Mixed with some open quests in a place where enemies were 5 levels higher = MEGA FUN and nice and challenging.  It starts losing steam at level  45 ish because you start running out of places to just kill and it all gets too easy.

    Ragnarok Online - Wait this is what you normally do in that game o.o

    WoW - ITs fun in the heroic areas.  I remember doing this in that undead place near stratholme was it?  Was fun! @_@

     

    Anyways...I think the problem is finding people to just go do that with.  Everyone seems to be sooooooo focused on "I WANNA GET HIGHER LEVEL! " or "I WANT BETTER GEAR!" and its kinda annoying....

     


    Originally posted by dlld

    There's really nothing stopping people from doing such, it's clear "questing" is a superior way of levelingin terms of enjoyment for the vast vast majority of people.

    No its a superior way of levelling and getting rewards.  And most MMO players WANT to level fast and get their rewards fast.

    How many posts do you see everyday with people saying "We need better quests" and stuff like that?  Im pretty sure if you made grinding mobs level you faster, people will rush to that and abandon questing.

    I remember my first time with a quest based MMO (WoW) I was just shocked at the speed I Was levelling.  It was like "go to a hub, go out and do all the quests, go back and level" I was just doing those quests and levelling as fast as I can.  I wasnt doing them cuz It was fun.  I was doing them cuz it seemed like I was levelling fast.  And levelling is fun.  New talent point! whoopie!

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  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member

    Originally posted by windsoul44

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    I really hope that a game finds a way to combine the socialization and flexibility of old school group grinding with the variety of quest grinding.

    And I think the key is to...

    STOP TYING QUESTS TO INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS.

    THIS is the reason you can't group up in modern theme-parks like you used to in old school ones.  It's because every player in the game will inevitably be at a different point in all their quests than you, so grouping up just winds up being a major pain:

    Bob:  "Hey want to group to kill Blackpaw?"

    Mary:  "Nah, I still have to kill 10 gnolls and 20 gnoll mages before I get that quest.  Did you want to group to kill Whiteclaw?"

    Bob:  "Nah, I already did that one...oh well, cya!"

    Mary:  "Cya!"

    Imagine if a game that still had quests complete with storylines and all, but didn't tie these quests to the player, and instead tied them to the world.  In this way, whenever a player came across a quest, they could do it, right there and then.  No prerequisites needed!

    You could just do quests by randomly running around the world with your friends!

    So instead of asking players what quest they are on when you want to group, you would just say, "hey want to group?"  And they would say "sure!"

    Guild Wars 2 is coming soon.  Hang in there.

     Heheh :).

    I try not to explicitly mention it in my posts that are obviously talking about its mechanics because if I do, a bunch of people will say I'm an over-hyped fanboi lol.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • CastillleCastillle KhobarPosts: 2,703Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Creslin321

     Heheh :).

    I try not to explicitly mention it in my posts that are obviously talking about its mechanics because if I do, a bunch of people will say I'm an over-hyped fanboi lol.

    I find it hard to believe that theres a single mmo player who isnt even slightly hyped for GW2 tbh...  Hai faiv for GW2!  ("")(^_^)

    ''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni
    ( o.o)
    (")(")
    **This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member

    Originally posted by Castillle

    Originally posted by Creslin321

     Heheh :).

    I try not to explicitly mention it in my posts that are obviously talking about its mechanics because if I do, a bunch of people will say I'm an over-hyped fanboi lol.

    I find it hard to believe that theres a single mmo player who isnt even slightly hyped for GW2 tbh...  Hai faiv for GW2!  ("")(^_^)

     Hahah high five :).  I agree.

     

     

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Originally posted by Castillle


    Originally posted by Creslin321



     Heheh :).

    I try not to explicitly mention it in my posts that are obviously talking about its mechanics because if I do, a bunch of people will say I'm an over-hyped fanboi lol.

    I find it hard to believe that theres a single mmo player who isnt even slightly hyped for GW2 tbh...  Hai faiv for GW2!  ("")(^_^)

     Hahah high five :).  I agree.

     

     

    Personally I find it hard to believe there are still people who get hyped about upcoming MMO releases.  You'd think we'd have learned by now.  High expectations are the cause of disappointment, it will never live up to your hype.

    Just sit back, relax, wait at release and see what is there.

    Venge

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member

    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Originally posted by Castillle

    Originally posted by Creslin321

     Heheh :).

    I try not to explicitly mention it in my posts that are obviously talking about its mechanics because if I do, a bunch of people will say I'm an over-hyped fanboi lol.

    I find it hard to believe that theres a single mmo player who isnt even slightly hyped for GW2 tbh...  Hai faiv for GW2!  ("")(^_^)

     Hahah high five :).  I agree.

    Personally I find it hard to believe there are still people who get hyped about upcoming MMO releases.  You'd think we'd have learned by now.  High expectations are the cause of disappointment, it will never live up to your hype.

    Just sit back, relax, wait at release and see what is there.

    Venge

     There's a difference between "hyped" and "over-hyped."  There's nothing wrong about being excited for a game that you have a realistic view about.

    There is something wrong with erecting a huge shrine in your room to a game that hasn't been released and you have very little information on :).

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,936Member Uncommon

    I've come to the conclusion that what many people call "grinding" is what I call "playing the game".


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • TorikTorik London, ONPosts: 2,343Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Castillle

    I remember my first time with a quest based MMO (WoW) I was just shocked at the speed I Was levelling.  It was like "go to a hub, go out and do all the quests, go back and level" I was just doing those quests and levelling as fast as I can.  I wasnt doing them cuz It was fun.  I was doing them cuz it seemed like I was levelling fast.  And levelling is fun.  New talent point! whoopie!

    My reaction when I started playing WoW was the opposite.  I was fascinated by all those quests and was having so much fun doing them that I stopped caring about leveling.  I got really sad when I run out of quests because I was too low level for the ones in my area.  I loved the idea that I really did not have to worry about how much XP per hour I was getting and could focus on exploring and doing interesting missions.

  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member

    Originally posted by 77lolmac77

    Originally posted by kishe

    Good ol' times, I'd just go to zone around my level range, shout "XXX looking for XP group" get invite and start killing stuff while chatting away with rest of the group and having a laugh, It was far less grindy and tedious than running to town, picking up 12 quests, running across the map to do the 12 quests, running back to town to return the quests, running around town to find new 12 quests...etc etc.

    Only social aspect left on MMOs are raids and even so, game after game reduces the amount of people you can bring to raid and reduces the amount of people you see in same zone with you...if same development continues, soon all MMOs will remind us of "Progressquest" where you just pressed a button and watched the game play itself for you (http://progressquest.com/)

     

     

     

    Pretty sure in green would be described as grinding?

     

    I would say social and grouping?, but hey everything is a grind even IRL no?

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,761Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by fenistil



    9,900,000 of them never played not-quest-based mmo. (hell most of them even don't propably know that there are mmorpg's existing or possible to do that don't copy WoW-pattern).

    Even though I partially agree where you come from.

    It's rare to find someone who doesn't feel the variety questing introduced isn't obviously superior to endlessly grinding mobs.

    Personally I tried a ton of early MMORPGs and the excessive grind and weak combat made me give up each one rapidly -- until a game came along with a varied grind and superior combat.

    Grind is excessive repetition.  Quests are reduced repetition, by varying activities. Pretty straightforward.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
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  • dllddlld GöteborgPosts: 542Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Castillle

    Originally posted by kishe

    Good ol' times, I'd just go to zone around my level range, shout "XXX looking for XP group" get invite and start killing stuff while chatting away with rest of the group and having a laugh, It was far less grindy and tedious than running to town, picking up 12 quests, running across the map to do the 12 quests, running back to town to return the quests, running around town to find new 12 quests...etc etc.

    Only social aspect left on MMOs are raids and even so, game after game reduces the amount of people you can bring to raid and reduces the amount of people you see in same zone with you...if same development continues, soon all MMOs will remind us of "Progressquest" where you just pressed a button and watched the game play itself for you (http://progressquest.com/)

     

     

     

    I always form those kinds of groups in games I play.  I actually do that in SWTOR as well.  Nothing like grabbing 4 other people and just running around clearing the heroic areas while messing around and maybe rp ing!  @_@

    Some of the games I did this on that led to some really fun times  were :

     

    Champions Online - Mixed with some open quests in a place where enemies were 5 levels higher = MEGA FUN and nice and challenging.  It starts losing steam at level  45 ish because you start running out of places to just kill and it all gets too easy.

    Ragnarok Online - Wait this is what you normally do in that game o.o

    WoW - ITs fun in the heroic areas.  I remember doing this in that undead place near stratholme was it?  Was fun! @_@

     

    Anyways...I think the problem is finding people to just go do that with.  Everyone seems to be sooooooo focused on "I WANNA GET HIGHER LEVEL! " or "I WANT BETTER GEAR!" and its kinda annoying....

     


    Originally posted by dlld

    There's really nothing stopping people from doing such, it's clear "questing" is a superior way of levelingin terms of enjoyment for the vast vast majority of people.

    No its a superior way of levelling and getting rewards.  And most MMO players WANT to level fast and get their rewards fast.

    How many posts do you see everyday with people saying "We need better quests" and stuff like that?  Im pretty sure if you made grinding mobs level you faster, people will rush to that and abandon questing.

    I remember my first time with a quest based MMO (WoW) I was just shocked at the speed I Was levelling.  It was like "go to a hub, go out and do all the quests, go back and level" I was just doing those quests and levelling as fast as I can.  I wasnt doing them cuz It was fun.  I was doing them cuz it seemed like I was levelling fast.  And levelling is fun.  New talent point! whoopie!

    Back in vanilla there was a lot level ranges were it was faster to just grind at the right spots (some where more class specific) actually I think overall in vanilla pure grinding through the entire game wasn't very far off from a only questing way and i'm pretty sure it wasn't even possible to only single quest through the entire game with bare minimum kills you'd had to grind or do instances/elite quests with other people. And that was a very common complaint, people simply didn't want to grind when there was an alternative, the relative non grindiness of wow was one of it's major selling points and celebrated feature.

    Also how many posts do you see everyday with people saying "Bring back xp gaps so we have to grind!" or "Reduce quest xp or remove quests, i want to just grind!".

     

    The wow (or singleplayer rather) style quest feature/system is horrible, outdated and archaic for an mmo today but it is a huuuuuuuuuuge step up from pure meaningless grind which is why it was implemented in the first place. The next huge step is going to be GW2's dynamic events, fixing so many problems that are inherent in the singleplayer inhereted quest-system.

  • DewmDewm Soldotna, AKPosts: 1,341Member

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     




    Originally posted by Dewm





    Originally posted by dlld

    There's really nothing stopping people from doing such, it's clear "questing" is a superior way of levelingin terms of enjoyment for the vast vast majority of people.






    how is it clear?

    I'm not trying to argue....i'm just wondering? is there some awesome study that I havn't heard of that proves this?






    10,000,000+ WoW subscribers voting with their pocket books?

     

    This old adage that because WoW has 10million players makes it MORE fun then any other game is just stupid. First off I like WoW...its a decent game for what it is. I am not a "wow-hater" BUT having said that....

    Just because McDonalds outsellfs a 5star resterant doesn't make it better food.

    Just because more people play WOW then play Risk, doesn't make Risk not as much fun..

     

    Thats like saying, more people have seen the grandcanyon, then have been to the moon.....does that mean the grandcanyon is a better view? no...deffinitly not.

     

    Please check out my channel. I do gaming reviews, gaming related reviews & lets plays. Thanks!

  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYPosts: 2,211Member

    Originally posted by Dewm

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     




    Originally posted by Dewm






    Originally posted by dlld

    There's really nothing stopping people from doing such, it's clear "questing" is a superior way of levelingin terms of enjoyment for the vast vast majority of people.







    how is it clear?

    I'm not trying to argue....i'm just wondering? is there some awesome study that I havn't heard of that proves this?







    10,000,000+ WoW subscribers voting with their pocket books?

     

    This old adage that because WoW has 10million players makes it MORE fun then any other game is just stupid. First off I like WoW...its a decent game for what it is. I am not a "wow-hater" BUT having said that....

    Just because McDonalds outsellfs a 5star resterant doesn't make it better food.

    Just because more people play WOW then play Risk, doesn't make Risk not as much fun..

     

    Thats like saying, more people have seen the grandcanyon, then have been to the moon.....does that mean the grandcanyon is a better view? no...deffinitly not.

     



    People refuse to accept marketing as the power of WoW. As I explained in my ealier detailed post WoW was in the mainstream non-gamer consciousness prior to launch to a degree that no other game has, could, or will replicate. Just like Diablo vs every other roguelike and TES in srpgs. It doesn't mean those games are the best ever. WoW did a lot of things right in regards to accessibility although vanilla WoW wasn't on the level that current WoW is in that way. But that isn't the number one thing. Marketing is.

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