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I miss olfschool PvE

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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775

    Originally posted by FrostWyrm

     

    I'll admit its been a while. I played biefly after Cataclysm came out (Bliz gave me 10 free days to try the xpac). It honestly felt like they'd dumbed the game down even further. I ended up solo quest grinding to about 55 in the first week before getting bored and quitting again.

    I'm not an antisocial person or anything, but WoW is just one of those games that I haven't (at least since vanilla) found a group of people I enjoy playing with.

    I was tempted to try again after they introduced monks. Since vanilla WoW I'd been saying the game needs a monk class. Unfortunately I don't really feel up to trying the game out again. Or at least not paying for it. If Bliz gives me free time again I might give it another chance.

    Ok. In that case, you may appreciate some more information. Let me give you some and see if you would like to come back and try.

    1) Catalysm is actually MORE difficult than WOTLK. Players complained and the newer content is a bit easier. When i say more difficult, i mean the heroic dungeons. There are almost-instant death mechanics in several boss fight. Unless you are really over-gearing the dungeons, you have to know the fight. This is LESS true in the 4.3 heroic dungeons.

    So if difficulty is what you want, play some H Cata dungeons (NOT the twilight ones) and see how you like it. Note that you have to be 85 to do those.

    2) If you need to level, never never do it ONLY by quest. That is very boring unless you like the quest line (to see the sights, kill new mobs, that kind of things). I did my 80-85 main toon leveling probably at least half by dungeons. My alt did it 100% through dungeons.Not only it is MUCH faster, you get blue items. If you have a friend also playing, it is much more fun queueing dungeons together.

    3) MOP is adding scenarios, a kind of queue-able instance group quest. I think there will be more and better small group content in wow, which is what you seem to like.

     

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Member Posts: 5,359

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Angier2758

     

    And yeah I enjoyed WoW's LFD dungeon grind.

     

    Me too. The good news is that the LFD runs are the same whether you are leveling or at the end game. I reallly like it when i can just pop in a dungeon with my sons, or a friend, or just with random people.

    In fact, anyone accusing WOW of being a solo game is just wrong. It is moving towards small group content and I think it is the right way to go. In the next expansion, i am MOST excited about the scenario, which are essentially instanced based group quest. That *will* revive group quest as viable, particularly if the rewards are good.

     WoW is definitely not a solo game, and is not moving in that direction.

    It is however, moving in the direction of the Guild Wars CORPG model.  Guild Wars was not a solo game, it was all about instanced, group content (like, the entire game).  This is what WoW is becoming like.

    And really, themepark MMORPGs have been moving away from the traditional MMORPG model and creeping closer and closer to the CORPG model for some time.  IMO, I think that a genre split needs to happen.  Games like WoW and SWTOR just need to give in and become CORPGs...that's really what they are.  And there needs to be other games that actually emphasize MMORPG features to fill in the MMORPG void.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • CuathonCuathon Member Posts: 2,211

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Originally posted by nariusseldon


    Originally posted by Angier2758



     

    And yeah I enjoyed WoW's LFD dungeon grind.

     

    Me too. The good news is that the LFD runs are the same whether you are leveling or at the end game. I reallly like it when i can just pop in a dungeon with my sons, or a friend, or just with random people.

    In fact, anyone accusing WOW of being a solo game is just wrong. It is moving towards small group content and I think it is the right way to go. In the next expansion, i am MOST excited about the scenario, which are essentially instanced based group quest. That *will* revive group quest as viable, particularly if the rewards are good.

     WoW is definitely not a solo game, and is not moving in that direction.

    It is however, moving in the direction of the Guild Wars CORPG model.  Guild Wars was not a solo game, it was all about instanced, group content (like, the entire game).  This is what WoW is becoming like.

    And really, themepark MMORPGs have been moving away from the traditional MMORPG model and creeping closer and closer to the CORPG model for some time.  IMO, I think that a genre split needs to happen.  Games like WoW and SWTOR just need to give in and become CORPGs...that's really what they are.  And there needs to be other games that actually emphasize MMORPG features to fill in the MMORPG void.



    The problem is that srpg and corpg games masquerading as mmorgps have brought really high bars of graphical quality that the niche market of real mmorpgs can't afford.

    Sandboxes are for players to make their own stories and in that context its not possible to have procedural worlds and creatures and lairs and even human made settlements that are as graphically complex as hand made never changing settings in themeparks.

     

  • DewmDewm Member UncommonPosts: 1,337

    Originally posted by Cuathon

    Originally posted by Creslin321


    Originally posted by nariusseldon


    Originally posted by Angier2758



     

    And yeah I enjoyed WoW's LFD dungeon grind.

     

    Me too. The good news is that the LFD runs are the same whether you are leveling or at the end game. I reallly like it when i can just pop in a dungeon with my sons, or a friend, or just with random people.

    In fact, anyone accusing WOW of being a solo game is just wrong. It is moving towards small group content and I think it is the right way to go. In the next expansion, i am MOST excited about the scenario, which are essentially instanced based group quest. That *will* revive group quest as viable, particularly if the rewards are good.

     WoW is definitely not a solo game, and is not moving in that direction.

    It is however, moving in the direction of the Guild Wars CORPG model.  Guild Wars was not a solo game, it was all about instanced, group content (like, the entire game).  This is what WoW is becoming like.

    And really, themepark MMORPGs have been moving away from the traditional MMORPG model and creeping closer and closer to the CORPG model for some time.  IMO, I think that a genre split needs to happen.  Games like WoW and SWTOR just need to give in and become CORPGs...that's really what they are.  And there needs to be other games that actually emphasize MMORPG features to fill in the MMORPG void.



    The problem is that srpg and corpg games masquerading as mmorgps have brought really high bars of graphical quality that the niche market of real mmorpgs can't afford.

    Sandboxes are for players to make their own stories and in that context its not possible to have procedural worlds and creatures and lairs and even human made settlements that are as graphically complex as hand made never changing settings in themeparks.

     

    Go check out Archeage... It looks pretty ****** epic.

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  • Creslin321Creslin321 Member Posts: 5,359

    Originally posted by Cuathon

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Angier2758

     

    ...

    .



    The problem is that srpg and corpg games masquerading as mmorgps have brought really high bars of graphical quality that the niche market of real mmorpgs can't afford.

    Sandboxes are for players to make their own stories and in that context its not possible to have procedural worlds and creatures and lairs and even human made settlements that are as graphically complex as hand made never changing settings in themeparks.

     

     Eh, I wouldn't go so far as to say that sandboxes are the only "real" MMORPGs.  All something has to do to be a "real" MMORPG, is have a lot of players and put a heavy emphasis on the persistent world...that's it.

    EQ1 is widely regarded as a real MMORPG, and it's themepark through and through.  But the fact that it had no instancing, a strong sense of community, and lots of player interaction made it a "real" MMORPG.

    I think GW2 is on the right track of making an MMORPG.  Their dynamic events definitely emphasize the persistent world.  I mean, they still have a lot of CORPG features like the personal story and dungeons...but I think that's okay as long as the persistent world is a MAJOR part of the game.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • MephsterMephster Member Posts: 1,188

     I miss where group play was required in mmos to be successful. This massively single player nonsense is for the birds.

    Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!

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  • AutemOxAutemOx Member Posts: 1,704

    Its been years since I met up with random people and played together and chatted with each other in a MMO...  Unless you count Realm of the Mad God.

    Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Originally posted by nariusseldon


    Originally posted by Angier2758



     

    And yeah I enjoyed WoW's LFD dungeon grind.

     

    Me too. The good news is that the LFD runs are the same whether you are leveling or at the end game. I reallly like it when i can just pop in a dungeon with my sons, or a friend, or just with random people.

    In fact, anyone accusing WOW of being a solo game is just wrong. It is moving towards small group content and I think it is the right way to go. In the next expansion, i am MOST excited about the scenario, which are essentially instanced based group quest. That *will* revive group quest as viable, particularly if the rewards are good.

     WoW is definitely not a solo game, and is not moving in that direction.

    It is however, moving in the direction of the Guild Wars CORPG model.  Guild Wars was not a solo game, it was all about instanced, group content (like, the entire game).  This is what WoW is becoming like.

    And really, themepark MMORPGs have been moving away from the traditional MMORPG model and creeping closer and closer to the CORPG model for some time.  IMO, I think that a genre split needs to happen.  Games like WoW and SWTOR just need to give in and become CORPGs...that's really what they are.  And there needs to be other games that actually emphasize MMORPG features to fill in the MMORPG void.

    No argument there. What you call it .. is just semantics.

    But the trend is clear. Diablo 3 will be a CORPG with MMO features, coming from the other directions.

    I think WOW is leading the way. CORPG .. small group, well made content, with tools to match people up, is the future of this genre. Just look how popular these features are in WOW.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775

    Originally posted by Cuathon

     



    The problem is that srpg and corpg games masquerading as mmorgps have brought really high bars of graphical quality that the niche market of real mmorpgs can't afford.

    Sandboxes are for players to make their own stories and in that context its not possible to have procedural worlds and creatures and lairs and even human made settlements that are as graphically complex as hand made never changing settings in themeparks.

     

    So? A genre is going down if it is not entertaining. If CORPG is the way to be more fun to more people, the genre should embrace it.

    There is no good precedurals world yet, and i am not interested in players making their own stories. I will take professionally design dungeons anyday. They are a lot more fun.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775

    Originally posted by Mephster

     I miss where group play was required in mmos to be successful. This massively single player nonsense is for the birds.

    This SP view is so old that you are way behind the curves. Do you just whine about MMOs and never play the new incarnation?

    The biggest MMO .. i.e. WOW .. has been moving AWAY from SP and embracing small group content for a long time. Do you miss that? Even TOR, which is SP story centric, has ton of group content (with MUCH better rewards than SP content).

    No one solo to level in WOW for a long time. I have no clue why you miss group play because it is very prevalent in modern MMOs like WOW.

  • EnoshEnosh Member Posts: 140



    Originally posted by Creslin321
     WoW is definitely not a solo game, and is not moving in that direction.
    It is however, moving in the direction of the Guild Wars CORPG model.  Guild Wars was not a solo game, it was all about instanced, group content (like, the entire game).  This is what WoW is becoming like.
    And really, themepark MMORPGs have been moving away from the traditional MMORPG model and creeping closer and closer to the CORPG model for some time.  IMO, I think that a genre split needs to happen.  Games like WoW and SWTOR just need to give in and become CORPGs...that's really what they are.  And there needs to be other games that actually emphasize MMORPG features to fill in the MMORPG void.

    soo and what exactly is the difference between WoW being a MMORPG that's becoming a CORPG game and a full CORPG WoW? Everything instanced? Pricing model? No more group quest? Where does one draw the line?
    idk, the whole themepark vs sandbox definitions are shaky at best, do we really need to throw another term into this?
    or would corpg simply replace themepark? Is there any point to it in the first place beyond some disgruntled veterans being able to sleep at night again knowing that those pesky casuals don't actually play mmorpgs?
  • Creslin321Creslin321 Member Posts: 5,359

    Originally posted by Enosh

     






    Originally posted by Creslin321

     WoW is definitely not a solo game, and is not moving in that direction.

    It is however, moving in the direction of the Guild Wars CORPG model.  Guild Wars was not a solo game, it was all about instanced, group content (like, the entire game).  This is what WoW is becoming like.

    And really, themepark MMORPGs have been moving away from the traditional MMORPG model and creeping closer and closer to the CORPG model for some time.  IMO, I think that a genre split needs to happen.  Games like WoW and SWTOR just need to give in and become CORPGs...that's really what they are.  And there needs to be other games that actually emphasize MMORPG features to fill in the MMORPG void.






    soo and what exactly is the difference between WoW being a MMORPG that's becoming a CORPG game and a full CORPG WoW? Everything instanced? Pricing model? No more group quest? Where does one draw the line?

    idk, the whole themepark vs sandbox definitions are shaky at best, do we really need to throw another term into this?

    or would corpg simply replace themepark? Is there any point to it in the first place beyond some disgruntled veterans being able to sleep at night again knowing that those pesky casuals don't actually play mmorpgs?

     

     It's really pretty simple actually...

    An MMORPG must have a persistent world, and the persistent world has to be involved in a large part of the game.  A CORPG doesn't have a persistent world, or its persistent world is a fairly minor part of the game (like towns in GW).

    If a game is released with a persistent world and it's initially all about playing with other players in the persistent world, then it's definitely an MMORPG.  If, in 5 years, the game has drastically changed so that the persistent world is hardly used, or marginalized through excessive sharding or phasing...then the game is becoming more like a CORPG.

    You can judge how "MMORPG-esque" a game is by how much the persistent world is emphasized.

    MMORPG = persistent world + a bunch of players + RPG

    Simple, like Axehilt said way back in the thread.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • CuathonCuathon Member Posts: 2,211

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Cuathon


     



    The problem is that srpg and corpg games masquerading as mmorgps have brought really high bars of graphical quality that the niche market of real mmorpgs can't afford.

    Sandboxes are for players to make their own stories and in that context its not possible to have procedural worlds and creatures and lairs and even human made settlements that are as graphically complex as hand made never changing settings in themeparks.

     

    So? A genre is going down if it is not entertaining. If CORPG is the way to be more fun to more people, the genre should embrace it.

    There is no good precedurals world yet, and i am not interested in players making their own stories. I will take professionally design dungeons anyday. They are a lot more fun.

    Because CORPG is a separate genre. If companies can make more money off them all well and good, but its not an MMORPG. No one is arguing that companies shouldn't make CORPGs if they think its a good financial move. You set up a straw man every time you post and its both irritating and pathetic. You don't seem to get that the financial and subjective fun value of CORPG games does not in any way prove or suggest that they are MMORPGs, they are still CORPGs.

  • Sid_ViciousSid_Vicious Member RarePosts: 2,177

    Olfschool FTW!

     

    : P

     

    Yeah I will quit a game fast if I realise that most of my time consists of following a quest-tracker with auto-run on until I come across some mobs and auto-attack with the same ol tab+1+2+3+4+1+4 . .. EQ was fun when it came out but all the games copying it have burned me out.

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  • GothbagGothbag Member Posts: 8

    Originally posted by kishe

    Good ol' times, I'd just go to zone around my level range, shout "XXX looking for XP group" get invite and start killing stuff while chatting away with rest of the group and having a laugh, It was far less grindy and tedious than running to town, picking up 12 quests, running across the map to do the 12 quests, running back to town to return the quests, running around town to find new 12 quests...etc etc.

     

     

     

    To me the "looking for XP group" thing ended up being much more grindy than the quest system, basicly, because it took MUCH more time. Besides with quests you are able to know somehow WHY you are killing those things. I remember in DAoC your cherished grinding-only system entailed a bunch of players being powerlevelled by your average necromancer.

    The current trend REWARDS grouping but doesn't make it compulsory in order to level up, you can still gather a group and grind without any quests involved but most people won't because they (like me) think it's VERY BORING. I remember it could become very frustrating when you were unable to find a proper group for XP grinding on EQ2.

     

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